VBCampaign:


2. The law we are saved from is the ceremonial and civil lawd of Moses. We are still under the moral law of Moses, which is largely depicted by the ten commandments.

There's nowhere scripture divided the law into 3. The law is a whole package. If you have scriptures where the law was divided into these 3 Categories kindly bring it up. CHRISTIANS are not under the law, including the 10 commandments.

When Christians do the "thou shall not" it doesn't mean they are obeying the 10 commandments. It simply means, they are doing the life of God which was then in place before the thou shall not was given....e.g, where was thou shall not commit fornication or adultery before Joseph flew flee from his master wife, where was thou shall not before Noah, Enoch and Abraham walked upright before God...?

Goshen360:


I don't know how you came about forgiveness of sins being conditional. It's NOT your confession of those sins that does the forgiveness of your sins, it is what Christ has done through and in his blood.

.....in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins.


It's either you understand that or not. You are not confessing sins just so you can have forgiveness. You're confessing sins because you're already forgiveness in his shed blood once and for all times - past, present and future

read to understand, yes christ has paid for all your sins with his blood but you should come to God to recieve that forgiveness through confessing your sins because confessing your sins means you admit your sins and ready for God to cleanse you. Read 1John and psalm 51.
Christ provide forgiveness but we must recieve it. There are somethings in the bible that are position but can only become active once we actively participate in it for example God made the believer holy (positional) but he must walk in holiness( actively), God made the believer righteous ( positional) but he must walk righteously (actively).
God has blessed the believer ( positional) but he must receive that blessing ( actively) and so on and so forth.
You need sound teaching

Salvation is a complete one package and it entails forgiveness of sins. This is not about encouraging sinful lifestyle, God and YOURSELF knows you YOURSELF will sin tomorrow and in future. Your future sins are already forgiven IN THAT ONE SACRIFICE OF HIS BLOOD.

IF it is your confession that does the forgiveness then it is WORKS OR YOUR WORKS that's bringing you forgiveness



That's not the point, the point of that scripture is, we have forgiveness and redemption in his blood. If your sins or unconfessed sins can undo your salvation in Christ, then Christ sacrifice is not different from what the blood of goats and bulls was doing in the old covenant.

I hope you know that salvation is ongoing in a beliver, I know you would argue with it. What christ did on the cross finished the work of salvation( positionally) but still ongoing in a believers life [progressive sanctification]
You need sound teaching.

Goshen360:


There's nowhere scripture divided the law into 3. The law is a whole package. If you have scriptures where the law was divided into these 3 Categories kindly bring it up. CHRISTIANS are not under the law, including the 10 commandments.

When Christians do the "thou shall not" it doesn't mean they are obeying the 10 commandments. It simply means, they are doing the life of God which was then in place before the thou shall not was given....e.g, where was thou shall not commit fornication or adultery before Joseph flew flee from his master wife, where was thou shall not before Noah, Enoch and Abraham walked upright before God...?

I want to say upfront that there's nowhere scriptures divided Moses laws into three. The division is theological. It is a result of centuries of study. You may accept or refuse this but this is my theological position and it safe.

Now consider these scriptures:

Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

My main concern is verse 31. What does Paul mean by "establishing the law"? Another version calls it "upholding the law".

Second:

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet... 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good... 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Now this is removing verses from their context but you'll admit that Paul puts a positive twist to the law there. Question: why does Paul say the law is not sin? Why is the law holy? How does Paul delight in the law?

I provide these scriptures to prove that while Paul will speak of abolishing the law in one hand, he speaks of upholding it in another.

We see that Paul saw circumcision and Jewish Sabbath keeping as laws abolished. These were clearly civil snd ceremonial laws bc these were laws for a nation and the temple, resp. In Christ there are no Jews and there is no temple.

Yet, he upheld all the ten commandments that included things like sexual purity, not stealing, worshipping God not idols, etc. Bc in Christ we still live morally. If not we would be immoral and this is what we accuse hypergrace of - immoral living in the name of Christianity.

Goshen360:


I don't know how you came about forgiveness of sins being conditional. It's NOT your confession of those sins that does the forgiveness of your sins, it is what Christ has done through and in his blood.

.....in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins.


It's either you understand that or not. You are not confessing sins just so you can have forgiveness. You're confessing sins because you're already forgiveness in his shed blood once and for all times - past, present and future

Salvation is a complete one package and it entails forgiveness of sins. This is not about encouraging sinful lifestyle, God and YOURSELF knows you YOURSELF will sin tomorrow and in future. Your future sins are already forgiven IN THAT ONE SACRIFICE OF HIS BLOOD.

IF it is your confession that does the forgiveness then it is WORKS OR YOUR WORKS that's bringing you forgiveness



That's not the point, the point of that scripture is, we have forgiveness and redemption in his blood. If your sins or unconfessed sins can undo your salvation in Christ, then Christ sacrifice is not different from what the blood of goats and bulls was doing in the old covenant.

What is the name of your church?

Hello. CYM please

Finallydead:

So you've quoted some scriptures to counter. That's not the test of understanding but a superficial show of shallow knowledge. Can you also deny the scriptures solite3 presented. No. It means you're a cherry picker of scriptures and have no true understanding of what they mean. Many elements form a compound. picking each element by itself is a completely different compound from the whole mixture.

Perfectbeing:

Did the thief at the cross confessed his sins to God before Jesus promised him a place in paradise. Or did he just believed in Christ and was saved?

1 Peter 3 vs 18-19
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18 Christ himself suffered when he died for you,
and with that one death he paid for your sins.
He was not guilty,
but he died for people who are guilty.
He did this to bring all of you to God.
In his physical form he was killed,
but he was made alive by the Spirit.
19 And by the Spirit he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

Good to stay in the middle of the road than this extreme and the other extreme ....Kenneth Hagin

solite3:
Question: "What is hyper-grace?"
The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism.

This type of teaching tends to appeal to those who do not even understand the meaning of Grace? I hear people suggest that it is the unmerited favor of God, but there is something very wrong with that idea. For you see, God does not favor those who are His over those who are not His to begin with. The same God allows the rain to fall on both the righteous and the unrighteous.... Is God a liar ?

Kobojunkie:

This type of teaching tends to appeal to those who do not even understand the meaning of Grace? I hear people suggest that it is the unmerited favor of God, but there is something very wrong with that idea. For you see, God does not favor those who are His over those who are not His to begin with. The same God allows the rain to fall on both the righteous and the unrighteous.... Is God a liar ?

grace is unmerited favor because no one deserve God's goodness but he gave it to us freely.

solite3:
grace is unmerited favor because no one deserve God's goodness but he gave it to us freely.

Your definition of grace holds some serious faults...

Romans 2 vs 11 (NIV)
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11. For God does not show favoritism.

According to Paul, God does not show favor of anykind at all. He is without respect for persons or situations....

Deuteronomy 10 vs 17 (NIV)
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7. For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

The above in Deuteronomy also states that God shows no favor.

Acts 10 vs 34-35 (ERV)
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34. Peter began to speak: “I really understand now that God does not consider some people to be better than others.
35. He accepts anyone who worships him and does what is right. It is not important what nation they come from.

Peter here tells us that God accepts any and everyone

Romans 9 vs 14-17 (ERV)
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14 . So what does this mean? That God is not fair? We cannot say that.
15 . God said to Moses, “I will show mercy to anyone I want to show mercy to. I will show pity to anyone I choose.”[g]
16 . So God will choose anyone he decides to show mercy to, and his choice does not depend on what people want or try to do.
17 . In the Scriptures God says to Pharaoh: “I made you king so that you could do this for me. I wanted to show my power through you. I wanted my name to be announced throughout the world.”[h]
18 . So God shows mercy to those he wants to show mercy to and makes stubborn those he wants to make stubborn.

God's mercy is upon all mankind . So I don't see how favor can be claimed, unmerited or otherwise, let alone assigned as God's grace. No amount of praying, fasting, pleading, repentance will cause God to change his mind regarding his grace on you though.

What you seem to confuse with grace is what others call LUCK .... https://www.nairaland.com/5717624/science-behind-grace-luck-mentalists

solite3:

I understand that, Christ has paid for our sins past, present or future not only ours but for the whole world but there is a condition to receiving it which is to come with God for the unbelivers. And for the beliver he should confess his sins unto God.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Sin can cut us off from fellowship with God.

Please just mention only one New Testament Believer who received salvation through confession of their sins.

....for by grace are ye saved through faith in Christ Jesus.

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2Cor 5:21

Today, our confession is Jesus Christ and His finished works.

Goshen360:


There's nowhere scripture divided the law into 3. The law is a whole package. If you have scriptures where the law was divided into these 3 Categories kindly bring it up. CHRISTIANS are not under the law, including the 10 commandments.

When Christians do the "thou shall not" it doesn't mean they are obeying the 10 commandments. It simply means, they are doing the life of God which was then in place before the thou shall not was given....e.g, where was thou shall not commit fornication or adultery before Joseph flew flee from his master wife, where was thou shall not before Noah, Enoch and Abraham walked upright before God...?

God bless you sir. People need to unlearn religion and relearn christianity.
Many do not even understand that the laws were given by Moses....John 1:17

Elizersalifu:


Please just mention only one New Testament Believer who received salvation through confession of their sins.

....for by grace are ye saved through faith in Christ Jesus.

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2Cor 5:21

Today, our confession is Jesus Christ and His finished works.

No salvation is not received through confession of sins but rather confession of sins is needed for a believer to be restored into right relationship with God.

solite3:
No salvation is not received through confession of sins but rather confession of sins is needed for a believer to be restored into right relationship with God.

When a criminal confessses his sins, is he also restored into right relationship with God?

Kobojunkie:

When a criminal confessses his sins, is he also restored into right relationship with God?

I don't understand? If the criminal is not saved, confession of sins without accepting Jesus would do nothing but if he is already saved yes he would be restored.

solite3:
I don't understand? If the criminal is not saved, confession of sins without accepting Jesus would do nothing but if he is already saved yes he would be restored.

Confession of sins actually does something to us psychologically. It helps us release the gui lt and shame holding onto us. It is cathartic.
In a way, he is saved from all the burden of guilt and shame, no Jesus needed.

As for actual relationship with Jesus Christ, i am afraid there is no go around when it comes to what Christ stipulated. To be worthy of becoming His follower, you have to do as He commands, nothing less. All the carthasis in the world will not do that one bit.

Hismasterpiece:


What you're saying isn't well presented, but I understand you.

We are save by God's Grace through Faith. When we believe in Jesus, we are granted access to God's Grace, which is what grants us salvation.

Jesus is the one-time sacrifice for the sins of the whole word (Heb 9-11). All our sins have been forgiven, past, future and present.

This doesn't mean we can go about living sinfully though, because that will mean handling the word of truth deceitfully.

When you sin just apologize to God, ask Him for His Grace not to repeat such sins again.

By the way, which preacher(s) message are you referring to hyper-grace? Please could you tell me the name of the person? Thanks.

According to Jesus Christ, this during His conversation with Nicodemus, there is work to be done in order to obtain salvation. In John 3 vs 1 -21, Jesus Christ explained that in order to enter into the Kingdom of God( Heaven has 2 domains - Heaven and Hell), you have to be born again and be saved(salvation).

BORN-AGAIN
* Change your heart and life to following God's commandments
* Be baptized in water to show that you have changed your heart and life - Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11
* Be born of Spirit(note that Spirit here does not entail Spirit of God)

SALVATION
* Believe in Jesus Christ, the New Covenant who is Law in the Kingdom of God
* Eat the body and drink the blood of Jesus Christ to gain eternal life - John 6 vs 31- 40 - the token obtained of salvation from the condemnation of sin(Death)

All the above works(rules/laws/terms) listed are works that are to be satisfied in order to enter into the Kingdom of God through the narrow gate which leads to true life. All those who do not meet the requirement enter into the Kingdom of God through the broad gate instead - Matthew 7 vs 13 vs 14

Sure, no man, of his own can save his/her self, and tha is why God gave us Jesus Christ so that through Him we can be saved. And as you can see above, that Salvation demands obedience(works) in order for it to be obtained from Jesus Christ, the one who offers it to you.