PilotOne:


You could have just left it at the emboldened. What makes it improbable?
What do you mean by existence? The observable universe?

Atheists have a habit of arguing about the nature of God, instead of sticking to the main point which is “Was the universe created or not?”

For now, logic (I don’t want to argue about faith) says that we were created. But the paradox is that whatever created us is outside the laws of our creation. I am willing to shift in my belief if you atheists provide evidence of your own belief (yes, atheism is a belief, because you also cannot prove your assertions).

LordReed:


Why? Do skyscrapers get built by only 1 person?

Theguided:


The qualifications of God are All powerful, All knowing, the greatest, e.t.c. There can't be 2 greatest supreme beings. It's like saying there are 2 fastest men alive. It has to be one

LordReed:


Why? Do skyscrapers get built by only 1 person?

TimeIllusion:


Biblical accounts cannot serve as evidence or example of "God". Stories about Yahweh are are valid as Stories about Zeus when it comes to God. Saying Yahweh manifested in the Bible is like saying Ahura Mazda manifested in the Avesta. I'm sure you wouldn't accept the use of the Avesta so you shouldn't present your bible as evidence.

If recordings are not enough, I'm sure it can do other things to prove itself.
COVID-19 remains a poor example because it can be proven even if people refuse to accept it without personal experience. And some refuse to accept it as they are dying from it. Nevertheless, its existence does not depend on faith.
Another thing, the reasons for believing in COVID-19 are not sensible and mostly based on faith, similar to the reasons for believing in Yahweh.

Zeus is the equivalent of Yahweh while satan is one Yahweh's underlings in jewish mythology.

Mapping can reveal the activation in the reward and motivation systems of the brain, which means certain chemical/neurological reaction to stimuli is what's called "love". A dead brain can't express love. No?

STD and unwanted pregnancy are possible consequences of having sex. You can have sex without contracting an STD or unwanted pregnancy and they are not equivalent to long-term torture (hell).
According to Christianity, hell is the certain consequence of rejecting your doctrine and mythology. For people prone to having faith, hell is an implicit threat.

I repeat, does a military regime have to harm you to force you to comply? All they have to do is tell you the "consequences".

No, I would have been dead.

Of course there are many versions of Christianity, but we are talking about the versions that want to cast everyone to hell. Even your Jesus allegedly talked about hell, so maybe Christians who don't believe in hell are not "true Christians". It's not by force to believe in God, but according to your faith, it's believe or else a.k.a by force

So many who claim to be Christian can even agree about the nature of the diety you call God (or hell), but you're so sure it exists. Where is Maxindahouse, I need him to tell you you're wrong?

PilotOne:


You could have just left it at the emboldened. What makes it improbable?
What do you mean by existence? The observable universe?

Atheists have a habit of arguing about the nature of God, instead of sticking to the main point which is “Was the universe created or not?”

For now, logic (I don’t want to argue about faith) says that we were created. But the paradox is that whatever created us is outside the laws of our creation. I am willing to shift in my belief if you atheists provide evidence of your own belief (yes, atheism is a belief, because you also cannot prove your assertions).

Theguided:


This is a facallcy
It's an appeal from ignorance (Argumentum ad ignorantiam)

You need proof from Theists to accept that your statement "God does not exist" is false but don't you think Theists also need proof from you to accept their claim "God exists" is also false.

You said you don't have to do anything but negate the statement "God exist" that seems very convenient
Now let's have it the other way now.
Claim "God doesn't exist" and let theists not do anything and wait for you to proof God does not exist which you can NEVER do otherwise, God exists

[The fact no one HAS or HAS NOT come up with proof or the evidence of the existence of God may amount to ignorance, since there's no evidence adequate to establish both assertions]

So you don't just get to say since theists can't prove the existence of God, you are right. Since Theists can also say since atheists can't prove the non existence of God, then they are right

Image123:


So you guys can condemn and criticize God from Bible accounts but i cannot explain or defend God from biblical accounts, interesting perspective.

Image123:
The Bible gives the historical account of God's dealings with man. From its accounts, it shows people don't necessarily believe God because of the supernatural.

Image123:
Bring up your avesta if it supports your course, i am not as inconsiderate as you are.

Image123:
You should re-read this, it makes very little sense but i will see to make sense of it, be rational not emotional please. God is believed on by billions of people, He is not under pressure to prove Himself. Biden needs just under 100million people to be president irrespective of the other millions that don't believe he is president of the United States or that he won. You unfortunately are an insignificant minority, believe and be saved.

Image123:
How convenient. Bible should not be considered for reference, example or evidence. But Zeus is definitely an equivalent of Yahweh for you. lol

Image123:
This is your evidence of love? How many billions of people have no access to this evidence of love? What do we do for them sir so that they can feel love?

Image123:
Funny you. So it is now about shifting the goalposts to possible consequences and certain consequences. Keep digging.

Image123:
From the concept of hell and heaven which you conveniently choose to speak on and attack but throw out the same Bible when it explains or defends God.

Image123:
God owns heaven, earth and hell. If you don't like His terms go and create your own planet and life.

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A government says you should use Card and not Cash to use the metro transport system. You say they are forcing you. Get your own country man. You have a will. Dig deeper sir.

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So you were not forced. What exactly are you arguing about?

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It's now about versions of Christians again, you must be one hell of a confused young man.

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You claim people believe in God by force, i showed you it's not necessarily so, now you are showboating.

Image123:
Jesus Christ taught a lot about hell, but there are people who lived before and after Jesus Christ who believed God without knowing much or even anything about hell.

Image123:
You should try to know what you are talking about or learn humbly.

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It's not about having the last say or "winning argument". You'll continue whining, twisting and digging if you're about winning the argument.

TimeIllusion:

People raised in the Christian tradition or environment would criticize God based on the god they are familiar with just like people raised in the Islamic tradition would criticize God based on the god they are familiar with.
I consider your god to be on the same footing as all other patron or creator gods, so I’m not criticizing “God” when we talk about Yahweh, because Yahweh is just like the others.

The Bible is not the historical account of God’s dealings with man. The Old Testament is a collection of Jewish myth and legends, while the New Testament is a collection Graeco-Roman fables with ample Egyptian influence. Its accounts are not proof of anything “supernatural”.

It’s not my Avesta/Bundahishn, it’s one of a collection of religious texts similar to your bible and is one of the sacred texts of Zoroastrianism. Ahura Mazda is said to be “God” according to their cosmogony and their account of creation.

So, we can say that Bundahishn gives an account of how Ahura Mazda created the world and his dealings with man, or we can say the Bible gives an account of how Yahweh created the world and his dealings with man. But neither the Bundahishn or the Bible is evidence for “God”.

This doesn’t make any sense. What are you trying to say? Be rational, not emotional please. Regardless, I’m not in danger so I don’t need to saved.

Yes, Zeus is the equivalent of Yahweh unless you have any rational reason for regarding Jewish mythology as fact while doing the opposite regarding Greek mythology.

Zeus made merry on Mt. Olympus while Yahweh dictated commandments on Mt. Sinai.
Same coin, different sides.

Yes, and anyone can learn about it if they please. You don’t need knowledge of the physical processes in the brain we call love to feel it, so you have no point really. What does love have to do with this anyway? You probably brought it up because you didn’t expect me to have an answer, then you could have used it as some evidence for “God”.

You made another asinine analogy comparing the possible consequences of having sex to your religion’s doctrine of hell. I didn’t move the goal posts, I just showed how ridiculous your analogy was.

I brought up the concept of hell as prime example of your “worship me or else” concept of god when you said belief in your god is not by force.

Yahweh owns heaven, earth, and hell. There’s nothing special about that.
According to Martian, TUTUkan owns Utopiea, Mars, and Frozolakh. If you don’t like Their terms go and create your own planet and life.

Stop with the silly analogies and respond to the military regime analogy. If I point out why this one is another poor analogy, you’ll respond with “shifting the goal post”.

If I were alive during the time when the believers of your god were murdering people, I would have resisted their force and ended up dead. Those periods are examples of your religion/god being spread by explicit force, and there is the implicit force inherent in your doctrine of hell.

You brought up the different versions of Christianity when you said not every Christian believes in hell. Don't be a dotard.

You showed it’s not necessarily so by bringing up versions of Christianity that don’t believe in hell. That doesn’t mean your doctrine does not include force or that your religion wasn’t spread by violence. How am I showboating??!!

Jesus must have been some type of psychopath to teach something as depraved as hell. Yes, people worshipped Yahweh before the Jesus character without belief in hell. But that doesn’t detract from the fact that the Christian conception of Yahweh includes hell for rejection. It’s a feature of Christianity.


Take your own advice. I always learn humbly.
e.g. I heard you are an expert on women’s sartorial choices and Yahweh’s rules concerning such matters.
So I ask humbly, are women allowed to wear pants/trousers?

Projection.

Luzebox:
Ok ... firstly...if i point a gun on your head and tell you to slap your mom ...and you slap her ...did you do it out of freewill?...now if i promise to burn you forever unless you worship me...and you worship me...is that freewill?

Secondly... belief is not a choice..u make sound like it's a choice.... No Matter how hard i try to believe cows can spit fire...i just can't... nobody can actually believes by choice

PilotOne:


You could have just left it at the emboldened. What makes it improbable?
What do you mean by existence? The observable universe?

Atheists have a habit of arguing about the nature of God, instead of sticking to the main point which is “Was the universe created or not?”

For now, logic (I don’t want to argue about faith) says that we were created. But the paradox is that whatever created us is outside the laws of our creation. I am willing to shift in my belief if you atheists provide evidence of your own belief (yes, atheism is a belief, because you also cannot prove your assertions).

Image123:


It may be the wisest thing you ever did, don't you think? Don't jump from that height to a certain death, i will not force you not to jump though.



Can i force you to believe me since it is not a choice according to you? Remember to put a yes or a no.

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So you guys can consider God from Bible accounts but i cannot explain or defend God from biblical accounts, interesting perspective. Hear what the Bible says.
Isa 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 




It is AN historical account. Your opinion is noted. i don't think i have mentioned the Bible as proof, i said "people don't necessarily believe God because of the supernatural." We can clearly and objectively see this in the Bible. This is the thrust of your long stories. Your colleague asked to see God, and i said his seeing God does not guarantee anything. Many people have "seen" God and not believed(both in and outside the Bible), many more have not "seen" God and yet believed. ("Seen" here referring to whether actually professing to seeing God Himself or His manifestations)



Bring up our avesta then if it supports your course, i am not as inconsiderate as you are.

Hab 2:18  What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols? 
Hab 2:19  Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it. 




Your continued attempt to mimic me doesn't usually turn out as a good strategy going by my experience with those who take the route. Think independently. You are created with capacity to be a unique being capable of independent thought. Try to re-read what you wrote in the quote and perhaps correct it. It made little or no sense to me. You believe you are not in danger nor need to be saved, yet people are forced to be saved. Do you smoke something when typing?



You believe Zeus to be equal to Yahweh based on? Correct me if i am wrong, but i guess you believe that from what you read and heard. Is your reading and hearing superior to those who believe based on what they also read and heard? You seem blind to the fact that you conveniently take the parts that favour your opinions hook, line and sinker but you frown at contrary views from the same book. Is there a pattern here?



How many billions of people have no access to this evidence of love that you present? What do we do for them sir so that they can feel love? You insult me greatly when you suppose that i do not expect you to have an answer, i am not here to waste my time or that of anyone. i don't ask questions hoping/expecting people don't have answers. i am not interested in showing you superior intellect like most of you try to. i have long known that no man is a fool(in the sense that people usually call it regarding level of intellect/intelligence). i am aware that God made every human intelligent in their own way. i recall having a back and forth on this recently with your hypocrite friend majamaja.

When i asked you the question on evidence of love, i was expecting something on the normal and usual lines of action. i would have used that to prove the long known point. But you answered using the more sophisticated view. Which makes me ask how many billions of people cannot feel love this way. Certain chemical/neurological reaction to stimuli is your evidence of love. How then do you measure peace, joy, patience, goodness, pride or meekness and wickedness? i hope you continue with these chemical reactions to a logical end.




Actually, i reminded you that actions like loose sex and reckless driving have consequences, just like every other action and decision usually done without force. You decided to classify consequences with adjectives like POSSIBLE to absurdly twist that going to hell is not a consequence of rejecting Jesus.



Listen, you are not. What makes the Bible fit as your prime example when convenient, but discarded when used by others to explain itself? That is the question.




What are their terms?
Psa_46:6  The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.



Good that you know your goal-shifting efforts. You want to know why God acts, then you need a balanced and proper perspective. Otherwise, you will only see what you want to see because He is a very big God. You cannot be outside the stadium and describing the goal to people that are inside the stadium because you heard shouts. You cannot just take/believe/consider hell without considering the full perspective about the Creator and purpose. If according to the Bible, God is the Creator and Owner of hell, heaven, earth and the inhabitants. Then it is only logical to consider His perspective. That makes Him like the government that owns the transport system and gave laws about payment for it. On your military question, there is what they call resistance. You can resist or you can go elsewhere.





There you come with ifs and supposings. i said you are not forced, you were arguing all the while that you are forced. Now, you are telling us IF.




Nope, i did not. You are confused yet again.




There are many believers in God who do not believe by force. i do not believe God by force for example. i have watched scary films and so forth about hell and judgement and seen my mates and even senior ones crying, but it hardly moved me in making any decision even when i was quite young. There are billions of people who believe God without being forced to or being talked to above hell. Some people just see it as the right thing to do, some people want to be good, some people respond to God's love. It is not everyone that ran to God because of hell like you have been claiming. It is not about any version of Christianity, you are missing the point.



You must have heard wrong as usual. What is your NL previous handle, don't be ashamed. It's very funny this so called bold people are very afraid and ashamed to tell us about their past, yet they say religion is driven by fear. They forget their own fears that usually lead them to suicide and depression in the majority.


Experience.

HellVictorinho:

The faith ,along with the so-called reasons you have for its existence, fly into your head by chance.
Therefore,it can only leave your head by chance.
It's a matter of probability.
If the faith leaves your head, the so-called reasons for it will disappear,too.
As for me or/and my brain cells,God(s) can't exist.
There can't be living things that are smarter than humans.

HellVictorinho:

You have only experienced religion.
You never really experienced any God.
That's why you can only quote the Bible when you are asked thought-provoking questions.
You will rather say you just believe in the Bible towards believing in God.
You think you have chosen to believe.
But your beliefs only happen by chance.

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So it comes by chance and probability, but chances and probability don't exist for you. Atheism is a continued supply of jokes at best.

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Joh 20:29 KJV Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

HellVictorinho:

Didn't I say you can only quote the Bible?

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The B-I-B-L-E is good enough for me,
i stand upon the promises of B-I-B-L-E.
Jesus will never fail, never fail, never fail.
Jesus will never fail. No, no, no.

You should learn that beautiful children song, it will save you.

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It may be the wisest thing you ever did, don't you think? Don't jump from that height to a certain death, i will not force you not to jump though.



Can i force you to believe me since it is not a choice according to you? Remember to put a yes or a no.