Mr. ToyeBarcanista few days ago opened a thread (link of the thread below) advising people on the subject of marriage.
https://www.nairaland.com/5693224/what-men-must-ensure-successful#86770968

The discussion on the thread has went a bit far, so I open a new thread to ask TonyeBarcanista to explain few points he made. Thank you.

Here are some excerpts From his article.

TonyeBarcanista post=.:



1.
Independent Mind: A man should have an independent mind that is not influenced by peers or societal narratives. He must realise that issues that concern relationship and home affairs are unique and he doesn't need popular opinion of relatives and strangers (on and off social media) before taking decision.

1. What are you trying to says exactly?
Because, This sounds a lot like you're saying that people should not listen to all the advice you have given your precious hour to pen down.
What if a man has an "independent mind" but not a sound mind and he's hurting his family, so he should not listen to anyone carry on?

TonyeBarcanista post=.:


2

Set Ground Rules And Stick To It
Every man should lay basic ground rule governing the relationship from the onset and ensure strict compliance. One important area that should not be overlooked is the subject of privacy. There is no privacy between a pair as long as relationship is concerned. Each should have unrestricted access to the other, including knowing passwords of phones; it is not a sign of insecurity contrary to what society would want to make one belief, it is simply a testament of oneness. As a man, any woman that doesn't believe in "No Privacy" relationship is most likely hiding something from you and should be a no-no.

I think this policy is unrealistic and naive for the following reasons:
* People must have relationships that extend to the outside world, public relationships, and some of them have secrets ( dealings that may need to be kept private) which are not of any concerns to your wife.
Letting her know about them for any reason without the agreement of the individual/s concerned would be a breeches of trust. You may get sued.
* Who knows? divorce may happen anytime for any foolish reason. How many times has anyone of you put all your efforts to making sure that things go your way, but at the end of the day a monkey wrench comes along to destroy your plans. That's life sh#t happens.
God help you if someone who knows all your secret ended up becoming your bitter enemy, because, no one can.
So be smart to share only what is necessary not everything.
And don't expect or demand to be told everything too.

N:B Tonye has a lot of fellowship who are to some extent fanatics in extollment of his views.
Please, keep any disagreement cordial.
Thank you.

blackjack21:
Mr. ToyeBarcanista few days ago opened a thread (link of the thread below) advising people on the subject of marriage.
https://www.nairaland.com/5693224/what-men-must-ensure-successful#86770968

The discussion on the thread has went a bit far, so I open a new thread to ask TonyeBarcanista to explain few points he made. Thank you.

Here are some excerpts From his article.



1. What are you trying to says exactly?
Because, This sounds a lot like you're saying that people should not listen to all the advice you have given your precious hour to pen down.
What if a man has an "independent mind" but not a sound mind and he's hurting his family, so he should not listen to anyone carry on?

My brother, I think this is self explanatory.

A man should have an independent mind that is not influenced by peers or societal narratives.

This simply means that men should be themselves and take decisions based on their conviction and not because of peers or societal narratives. Any individual (man or woman) whose decision is influenced by peers or society will live regretful life as he will ignore his deepest conviction when/if it doesn't tally with those of the society and his/her peers.

He must realise that issues that concern relationship and home affairs are unique and he doesn't need popular opinion of relatives and strangers (on and off social media) before taking decision
Yes, when there is internal issues within his home, he doesn't need to sample opinion from people with aim of implementing popular opinion. He may seek "advice" on issues but implementation of advice must be based on HIS informed conviction. Let me reteirate that Seeking opinion of more experienced and matured people is not all bad but the decision to be taken must still be based on PERSONAL CONVICTION irrespective of whether it is the popular choice or otherwise.

The point here is that MEN have the independent mindset.


2.

[b] I think this policy is unrealistic and naive for the following reasons:
* People must have relationships that extend to the outside world, public relationships, and some of them have secrets ( dealings that may need to be kept private) which are not of any concerns to your wife.
Letting her know about them for any reason without the agreement of the individual/s concerned would be a breeches of trust. You may get sued.

Your wife is a second half of you. Any privacy or secret that can't be told your wife simply means it is either you don't trust her enough or you don't understand marriage especially the phrase of two becoming ONE!

As for being sued, how can someone sue you for telling your wife? Will you or your wife inform him or what? And if you can't trust any woman enough with your deepest secret please don't marry her!

* Who knows? divorce may happen anytime for any foolish reason. How many times has anyone of you put all your efforts to making sure that things go your way, but at the end of the day a monkey wrench comes along to destroy your plans. That's life sh#t happens.
God help you if someone who knows all your secret ended up becoming your bitter enemy, because, no one can.
So be smart to share only what is necessary not everything.
And don't expect or demand to be told everything too.
[/b]

Sir, if you don't trust a woman enough to entrust your life to her, please don't marry her. Only marry someone that you can be comfortable with your eyes closed and bullet loaded in a gun on her hands because you know that she can't and won't harm you.

NOTE SIR: The marriage between man and wife is like that existing between Christ and the Church. It is like that which existed between Abraham and Sarah - there is no privacy nor secrecy. Remember, marriage is 2 people becoming 1 not two people living together as flatmates or roommates. Sir, do note also that this breeds companionship and bonding.

This is why is is strongly advisable to set right your priorities, live rightly and marry a woman of high virtue. Marital decision and choice of spouse makes or mar men.

The issue is that both of you literally have an erroneous understanding of what independent-mindedness (strong-mindedness) mean. Independent-mindedness is a psychological profile, not a philosophy; a crucial part of ethical leanings, which itself is the end product/quotient of emotional, moral and psychological/intelligence blending. Psychological profile can be either innate or acquired; each human being is either strong-minded (independent-minded) or head-strong or feeble-minded.

So, it's one thing to be independent-minded while it's entirely a different thing to be conscientious - one can be independent-minded without being conscientious, but one can't be conscientious without be independent-minded - it takes one of sound ethical leanings to be conscientious. To be independent-minded without being conscientious is similar to liberty without decorum, it's a disease - plan doesn't negate spontaneity.

On the issue of privacy, oneness doesn't negate liberty - liberty only becomes a problem when it negates altruism in particular and decorum/conscientiousness in general.

In light of the above, only people who're of sound ethical leanings - one is either of the sound ethical leanings/diplomatic ethical leanings or manipulative ethical leanings (small-minded people belong here) - can effectively pursue oneness. Where oneness is effective, the parties involved always mutually have inner peace and happiness and absolute confidence on each other - oneness is the soul of marriage, while altruism is the soul of oneness itself.

I guess the response from TonyeBarcanista closes this thread.

Sir, if you don't trust a woman enough to entrust your life to her, please don't marry her. Only marry someone that you can be comfortable with your eyes closed and bullet loaded in a gun on her hands because you know that she can't and won't harm you.

marriage is 2 people becoming 1 not two people living together as flatmates or roommates. Sir, do note also that this breeds companionship and bonding.


The bolded is still a mystery to many men. They still see marriage in the light of boyfriend and girlfriend.

With marriage comes responsibility and maturity. You are responsible for your spouse. You protect and cover them against external criticism.

That's why it's important to marry the right person, someone you can respect and value. You don't marry someone and still show that you place your siblings/parents above him/her.

Whatever you do to your spouse, you are doing to yourself because you are one. And not so many guys especially on this forum understand the sacredness of marriage.

No they don't ma, that's why someone said here the other day that once men understand that it is only his wife that isn't their blood then men won't have much problems anymore in marriage.
The sad thing was that many were complimenting him.
People don't understand anything about marriage anymore, they just go into it coz their mates are getting married, and other sickening factors.

ImaIma1:
guess the response from TonyeBarcanista closes this thread.

Sir, if you don't trust a woman enough to entrust your life to her, please don't marry her. Only marry someone that you can be comfortable with your eyes closed and bullet loaded in a gun on her hands because you know that she can't and won't harm you.

marriage is 2 people becoming 1 not two people living together as flatmates or roommates. Sir, do note also that this breeds companionship and bonding.


The bolded is still a mystery to many men. They still see marriage in the light of boyfriend and girlfriend.

With marriage comes responsibility and maturity. You are responsible for your spouse. You protect and cover them against external criticism.

That's why it's important to marry the right person, someone you can respect and value. You don't marry someone and still show that you place your siblings/parents above him/her.

Whatever you do to your spouse, you are doing to yourself because you are one. And not so many guys especially on this forum understand the sacredness of marriage.

MissGodOwn:
No they don't ma, that's why someone said here the other day that once men understand that it is only his wife that isn't their blood then men won't have much problems anymore in marriage.
The sad thing was that many were complimenting him.
People don't understand anything about marriage anymore, they just go into it coz their mates are getting married, and other sickening factors.

I don't take such guys seriously. They are obviously young and naive. If they carry that mindset into marriage, the marriage will have plenty problems and he and his family will keep blaming the wife for many happenings. Just because a boy decided to get married

ImaIma1:


I don't take such guys seriously. They are obviously young and naive. If they carry that mindset into marriage, the marriage will have plenty problems and he and his family will keep blaming the wife for many happenings. Just because a boy decided to get married

I'm telling u, anyways it's well.

ImaIma1:

There's something called violation of oneness (violation of goodness of any form). The highest point of trust is when a couple can take each other's words as absolute truth and when the words are truly bankable, not necessarily when they continually snoop on each other's phone for instance - this doesn't foreclose each half having unrestricted access to each other's phone so to say. There's a thin line between exercising right of oneness and abuse of right of oneness.

Also, there's a difference between diplomacy and dishonesty; in the act of diplomacy lies something like harmless secret - for instance, a harmless secret like not telling your husband that your sister has an allergy to wearing undies for whatever reason, an allergy which she possibly developed from birth and has exclusively been known by both of you alone (no insult intended towards your person). I have numerous examples in this regard that are both formal and informal.

Once more, oneness doesn't negate liberty, just as liberty doesn't negative conscientiousness.

TonyeBarcanista:

My brother, I think this is self explanatory.

A man should have an independent mind that is not influenced by peers or societal narratives.

This simply means that men should be themselves and take decisions based on their conviction and not because of peers or societal narratives. Any individual (man or woman) whose decision is influenced by peers or society will live regretful life as he will ignore his deepest conviction when/if it doesn't tally with those of the society and his/her peers.

He must realise that issues that concern relationship and home affairs are unique and he doesn't need popular opinion of relatives and strangers (on and off social media) before taking decision
Yes, when there is internal issues within his home, he doesn't need to sample opinion from people with aim of implementing popular opinion. He may seek "advice" on issues but implementation of advice must be based on HIS informed conviction. Let me reteirate that Seeking opinion of more experienced and matured people is not all bad but the decision to be taken must still be based on PERSONAL CONVICTION irrespective of whether it is the popular choice or otherwise.

The point here is that MEN have the independent mindset.


2.
Your wife is a second half of you. Any privacy or secret that can't be told your wife simply means it is either you don't trust her enough or you don't understand marriage especially the phrase of two becoming ONE!

As for being sued, how can someone sue you for telling your wife? Will you or your wife inform him or what? And if you can't trust any woman enough with your deepest secret please don't marry her!

Sir, if you don't trust a woman enough to entrust your life to her, please don't marry her. Only marry someone that you can be comfortable with your eyes closed and bullet loaded in a gun on her hands because you know that she can't and won't harm you.

NOTE SIR: The marriage between man and wife is like that existing between Christ and the Church. It is like that which existed between Abraham and Sarah - there is no privacy nor secrecy. Remember, marriage is 2 people becoming 1 not two people living together as flatmates or roommates. Sir, do note also that this breeds companionship and bonding.

This is why is is strongly advisable to set right your priorities, live rightly and marry a woman of high virtue. Marital decision and choice of spouse makes or mar men.

1. Alright, I now understand better.
That's not as much complicate as sliced bread. Listening to others opinion before making the decision yourself is a mental model for almost any problems. Not just marriage. So, spot on!

2. I will still let my horses free regarding the issue of trust but, I would like to be understood better; of course any relationships that isn't built on trust is built on deceit. be that as it may, there limits to things your spouse should know about things that concerned only you and other people, especially if these people would prefer that their affairs be kept secret from anyone, your spouse included, and especially if these secret don't concern the health of your marriage. Divulging such secrets can be counterproductive on the very relationships you want to protect.
If I'm must give anybody a gun that can potentially be pointed to my head, I'd make sure that I am not going to be too sorry about it. Because, I'll remove the firing pin and remove the primer in the bullet and render the gun completely impotent.
Nobody should deny the fact that the world we live in is so full of uncertainties. We've heard of it, we've seen it, a love story the Envy of everyone, divorcing almost as fast as the get wedded. So we can't deny that the unwanted may happen. All that talk about the church and Christ and two people becoming one is just fantasy.

Trust doesn't necessarily mean lack of secret.
There are situation where you must keep some information from people you love to protect them
And there are situation where you must Keep certain secret just to yourself. Because, in a situation where your spouse must choose between you and themselves, they will surely choose themselves. It's Human nature.

It better to "hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

And lastly I do not support any kind of martial infidelity. Be loyal to your spouse and don't put them to shame.

LordKO:
The issue is that both of you literally have an erroneous understanding of what independent-mindedness (strong-mindedness) mean. Independent-mindedness is a psychological profile, not a philosophy; a crucial part of ethical leanings, which itself is the end product/quotient of emotional, moral and psychological/intelligence blending. Psychological profile can be either innate or acquired; each human being is either strong-minded (independent-minded) or head-strong or feeble-minded.

So, it's one thing to be independent-minded while it's entirely a different thing to be conscientious - one can be independent-minded without being conscientious, but one can't be conscientious without be independent-minded - it takes one of sound ethical leanings to be conscientious. To be independent-minded without being conscientious is similar to liberty without decorum, it's a disease - plan doesn't negate spontaneity.

On the issue of privacy, oneness doesn't negate liberty - liberty only becomes a problem when it negates altruism in particular and decorum/conscientiousness in general.

In light of the above, only people who're of sound ethical leanings - one is either of the sound ethical leanings/diplomatic ethical leanings or manipulative ethical leanings (small-minded people belong here) - can effectively pursue oneness. Where oneness is effective, the parties involved always mutually have inner peace and happiness and absolute confidence on each other - oneness is the soul of marriage, while altruism is the soul of oneness itself.

Thank you for dropping some knowledge bomb here.

So, basically, your point on privacy is that " it's okay for one to have secrets as long as these secrets are not of infidelity and/or would cause unhappiness in your marriage."?
I would buy that.

This thread is TRASH

didn't even read it