One of the reasons I will never come back to Nigeria, unless the palace requests me to come for some reason, is that the avaerage IQ is very low. I just won't fit in and would have to spend long hours explaining things day after day.

TAO11:


(1) The screenshot you attached is of a section of page 35, of A. F. C. Ryder's work viz. "A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship" published in The Journal of African History, Vol. 6, No. 1 (1965), pp.25-37 --- An expert's work!

So, don't bother about any "link" I have had a copy of this work since years ago.

What you should instead bother about is to learn to always cite references, and not simply assume that any text found in electronic soft form on the WWW is authoritative.

If I hadn't already read this particular work before and knew it to be A. F. C. Ryder's, I cannot possibly have trusted its author to be an expert just because it's a written text in electronic soft form found on the WWW.

Having said that, Ryder was writting here at a time when the specific identification of the Ogane --- by historians --- was still a work in progress and not final and definitive.

This doubt is clearly admited by Ryder himself and noticeable in his own conclusion, even after a painstaking identification effort --- he said "most probably.

He himself obviously admits that his conclusion here is not final, conclusive, and definitive.

An important fact to remember is that this his probabilistic conclusion was reached in the year 1965.

Now fast forward to fifty-one years later when historians have had access to more data, their conclusion moved from individual conflicting probabilistic conclusions to a general definitive consensus on the identification of the Ogane.

And both the date and the tone of the historical work I cited match this scholarly shift and progress.

The work I cited was from 2016 and the conclusion says "... Ogane ... whom SCHOLARS NOW identified with the Yoruba ruler of Ife, in modern-day Nigeria ..."

See the attachment below for a reminder of the details and the reference.

(2) Yes, the Kingdom of the "Oghene" is "Ife" according to the "Benin people".

Let's listen to Omo N'Oba N'Edo Erediauwa II one more time in his 2004 The Benin-Ife Connectioon:

See here: https://www.edo-nation.net/erediauwa1.htm


(3) Lol. Whether or not the Edo noun "Uhe" can also apply to a person is irrelevant here. And I think you're lying, because I've always known that apart from place, it applies to thing, namely: "v@g!n@".

But whether it applies to thing and person is irrelevant, because when applied to place, it referrs to Ife.

The evidence for this can be found in the same work of Omo N'Oba Erediauwa II already cited above.

See here: See here: https://www.edo-nation.net/erediauwa1.htm


(4) Earlier on in the course of this exchange, your excuse was that "Oghene" could mean "God" or "King".

However, you've now turned around to claim that it "Oghene" means "Priest".

Even if I pretend not to see your contradiction, and thus assume that what you meant is that "Oghene" could mean any of "God", "King", or "Priest".

I have already debunked any such excuses when I cited Eweka 1992, wherein the same Oba Erediauwa was noted to claimed that:

It was "Supreme God" himself who gave birth to the first Oba of Benin as his last born son.

[i]E. B. Eweka: Evolution of Benin Chieftancy Titles. Benin: Uniben Press, (1992) cited in Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs: Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, (2004), p.314.

So, riddle me --- according to official Bini accounts --- whom the first Oba of Benin who also happens to be his father's last born son is.

This is obviously Oranmiyan.

And is father who gave birth to him as his last born son --- according to official Bini account --- is no other that the then Ooni of Ife.

It is therefore this Ooni that is being referred to above by Omo N'Oba Erediauwa II specifically with the words "Supreme God" --- not merely King or Priest.

So, your excuse falls flat on its nose.

(5) Regarding Ogane I never posted you any link. I simply attached you the same attachment below.

And the 2016 reference is I attached is obviously different, and it's reflective of the contemporary unanimous scholarly certitude, in contrast to the 1965 scholarly article you had attached which reflects the conflicting solitary probabilistic identification of the Ogane.

Cheers to your growth!

Stop beating about my friend

The chief of ughoton said he was sovereign over benin
You have already assume his works was an error please point the errors out because its an old work does not mean it has errors

Uhe is referred to as strangers and not particularly to ife alone

Oghene could be referred to as priest, god, king


The article is so very correct dont bother trying to prove anything guy

The truth now is benin never encountered ife in anytime in history the place benin assume is ife was never ife and that is what the writer was trying to prove, because our kings says it doesn't mean is all correct, a different place the benin encountered as been misplaced as ife in benin history

With this new findings we will bother less about your kind because there will be no history to drag with benin

ghostwon:


Have you read anything which I have ever written ?
I have said everything needed to be said on this topic, several times. You never listen. I will soon deactivate my account anyway. When I say stop discussing fairytales and the next thing you do is dive deep into fairytale discussion and then you call my name to waste some more of my time ?

"we have been going on this history the wrong way"
Why I am included in the "we" is beyond me, basically the article is saying things which I have been saying.

Why am I included in the "we" ?

My comments are on nairaland, read them and don't call my name again. Thank you.

Yea i remember you saying that

But please add me up on whatsapp lets talk two heads are better than one

08155024814

Or give me yours

TAO11:


No! Lol. Just kidding.

Ife had no relationship with benin


This new findings will put you all to sleep

gregyboy:



Stop beating about my friend

The chief of ughoton said he was sovereign over benin
You have already assume his works was an error please point the errors out because its an old work does not mean it has errors

Uhe is referred to as strangers and not particularly to ife alone

Oghene could be referred to as priest, god, king


The article is so very correct dont bother trying to prove anything guy

The truth now is benin never encountered ife in anytime in history the place benin assume is ife was never ife and that is what the writer was trying to prove, because our kings says it doesn't mean is all correct, a different place the benin encountered as been misplaced as ife in benin history

With this new findings we will bother less about your kind because there will be no history to drag with benin

You jump from one madness into an other one...

ghostwon:

You jump from one madness into an other one...

What is your own story

gregyboy:



Stop beating about my friend

The chief of ughoton said he was sovereign over benin
You have already assume his works was an error please point the errors out because its an old work does not mean it has errors

Uhe is referred to as strangers and not particularly to ife alone

Oghene could be referred to as priest, god, king


The article is so very correct dont bother trying to prove anything guy

The truth now is benin never encountered ife in anytime in history the place benin assume is ife was never ife and that is what the writer was trying to prove, because our kings says it doesn't mean is all correct, a different place the benin encountered as been misplaced as ife in benin history

With this new findings we will bother less about your kind because there will be no history to drag with benin

Nobody in Benin Kingdom talked about some oghene !
The ease whith which you can just believe things amazes me.
Orgvene is a mythical kingdom, it never existed, it is a myth !
It is a myth attached to an other mythical creature (prester john) .
Also Ogvene the myth has nothing to do with ife village which only appears on 19th century maps.
Why are you so easy to fool ? (it is almost as if you are begging to be fooled)
What do you want me to tell you on whatsapp which I haven't said here many many times and which you never listened to ?
Do you believe my life is all about nairaland, you think I have more time to waste ?
Wise up, stop believing things without proof and learn how to look for genuine information, not all you read is true.

I can't possibly have a conversation with you. You need to wise up.

It is possible that ife village was established by slave returnees.

gregyboy:


What is your own story

Logics and common sense.

gregyboy:


What is your own story

Ife and Oduduwa history/story are all made up stories, that is why you see them contradicting themselves.

Have you not noticed how they have all run away back to their shells since my last post to TA011: asking him to prove his Orun Oba Ado fallacy.

I am still waiting for him to come back with answers to my questions.

The truth is, some of us don't take them seriously.

They are nairaland clowns who are here to entertain us with their tales by moonlight stories.

Benin means alot to them because of trying to use it to validate the Ife and Oduduwa fabrications.

Take Benin out of their fabrications, what else do they have to showcase as history.

Imagine these clowns arguing and contradicting the Oba of Lagos and his chief about the history of Lagos monarchy.

Hopefully he will learn from this and think twice next time before propagating the Orun Oba Ado lies.

samuk:


This is not fight but fun while the lockdown lasts, hope you are keeping and staying safe.

Yes boss. Thanks for asking.
And what about you sir?

ghostwon:


Logics and common sense.

Comeon you got to share more than this to me

I have been wallowing in ignorance since

Pleasure your understanding send me an email if be


But we cant desregard the records that the Portuguese made documents to that there was an oghene that was sovereign over them tho the writer disagree bluntly it was ever ife...


Please you also don't need to delete your account when the truth is about unfolding

samuk:


[s]Are you conceding and running away from the below questions, let me know so that we can move on.[/s]

(1) Let's for once ignore the contradictions in the two sources you cited and assume that the remains of the Obas of Benin that were claimed to have been taken to Ife meant the heads alone.

(2) You claimed eleven empty burial pits were found in Arun Oba Ado and one of your sources claimed that every third-reigns Oba was taken to Ife.

(3) Considering that the numbers of Obas of Benin are well documented, please do the enumeration and tell us if your numbers add up.

(4) Assuming the empty pit at Orun Oba Ado once contained the remains of Benin Obas what happened to the remains, why are the pits empty.

(5) I warned you and your fellow revisionist to stick to your Oduduwa fairytale and stay out of Benin history.

(6) [s]You have now dug yourself and your sources a bigger hole.[/s]

(7) I am waiting for the result of the simple arithmetic assignment and what happened to the supposed remains in the 11 empty pits.

(8 ) [s]Please don't come back with insults and abuses as distractions.[/s]

There is actually no need re-posting the same comment of yours to another different and unrelated comment of mine just to give your gullible audience the false and deceptive impression that you're replying to all the comments from the yOrUbAs.

Moving on ...

(1) Lol! You noted that you see a "contradiction" between Dr. R. E. Bradbury's less graphic & less detailed description; and Chief J. U. Egharevba's explicit and minute description.

Well, I would have thought that you wouldn't have merely ignored the "contradiction" you see, but that you would instead have pointed it out for all to learn the updated definition of a 'contradiction'.

In fact, you have a burden of proof for any implicit or explicit claims you make. What you do not have is the freedom to shirk (or "ignore" ) from proving any explicit or implicit claim you make.

(2) No I didn't make the claim. Rather, it was Frank Willet --- the archaeologist conducted the 1961-2 excavation of Orun Oba Ado --- who found a total of eleven "burial pits" at the site.

I am not sure why you assumed that it was I who conducted the excavation, even when I actually cited clear references to Frank Willett.

Moreover, if it is not a typo, then please be sure that there is no such thing as "Arun Oba Ado". All historical sources say "Orun Oba Ado". I am not particularly clear how you confuse "A" and "O" on a keyboard. They are almost on opposite sides. Please fix that going forward.

Furthermore, contrary to your misrepresentation, none of my sources say the "Oba was taken to Ife"

Instead, Chief J. U. Egharevba whom you refer to here say: "the head ...", and yes he added the detail that: "this was only done in every third reign."

And I'm yet to see how you arrived at the supposed "contradiction" between Dr. R. E. Bradbury's description and Chief J. U. Egharevba's description, in case you still insist on that.


(3) I am not sure if you usually take time to carefully read what you spend time responding to.

If you had taken your time to carefully read my comment in this regard, then you would have noticed that I must have done the enumeration already.

In fact, not only have I done it, I have also found that the enumeration of the number, of third-reign Benin Obas, matches the number of "burial pits" found by Frank Willett exactly.

And I proceeded to "challenge any Bini reading ... to do the enumeration" themselves and revert with their result for comparison.

Yes you're right, the listing of the "Obas of Benin are well documented". Thanks to Egharevba et al. whom you all hate so much for been uneconomical with the truth.

I also provided information on the complete listing of Benin kings in my earlier comment.

As a reminder, the following are my precise words:

"Now, how many third-reigns are there between Oranmiyan's reign on one hand, and the reign before Ovoranmwen's on the other hand??

Note: Ovoranmwen's incomplete reign in 1897 marks the point from when the British intervened in Benin's polity when they exiled him to Calabar.

I challenge any Bini reading this to do the enumeration, and then revert back to this thread with the number, to allow for a comparison with the "eleven" "burial pits" which Frank Willett found at Orun Oba Ado."

(4) Here you tried to be cunning by introducing the word "Assuming".

No, it is utterly counterintuitive to assume what is already known from both historical and archaeological evidence.

We know from historical information --- as I have shown --- that the head of the Oba was sent to Ife for burial.

We know from corroborating archaeological evidence (as I have shown) that not only were "burial pits" found at Orun Oba Ado, there are a total of "eleven" of them --- a number which precisely matches the result of enumeration of the Benin Obas.

These thus definitively establish the tradition of burial at Orun Oba Ado to be a historical fact.

And it is absurd to counterintuitively assume the very thing that has been definitively established.

So, your question which follows your request for assumption, thus becomes modified as follows:

Knowing now that the heads of the Benin Obas were indeed burried at Orun Oba Ado, why then are the "burial pits" empty??

And the rational answer is that they were obviously exhumed --- for further rites.

Just as any rational mind would expect that an item they had actually stationed at a spot but which couldn't be found there later was indeed moved.

In fact --- to be emphatic --- whatever had later happened to the heads after they had first been evidently burried there changes absolutely nothing about the admitted fact that they were burried there.

(5) No, the only fairytale is the fictional story of a certain Ekaladerhan who roamed the forest and eventually found his way to Ife to become Oduduwa. Lol

Refer to the link below to notice how this "Edowood" fiction of Ekaladerhan has been debunked and trashed by the world's most prolific historian on Benin History et al.:

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/11#87682523

And please remind me of the skydiving mission of Ogiso Igodo --- I miss that work of fiction!

(6)

(7) Regarding the "simple arithmetic", I have already replied you on that. But for emphasis:

The enumeration of the Benin Obas matches exactly the number of "burial pits" found by Frank Willett at Orun Oba Ado --- "eleven".

(8 )

Cheers!

gregyboy:



Ife had no relationship with benin


This new findings will put you all to sleep

Yeah, technically it doesn't. I mean the former is the owner, while the latter is the owned.

However, whatever you come with, don't come here with an absurd story of how Benin kingdom was founded by a white European man??

Lol

TAO11:


Yeah, technically it doesn't. I mean the former is the owner, the latter is the owned.

However, whateve you come with, don't come here with an absurd stlry of how Benin kingdom was founded by a white European man??

Lol

Provide prove that a. F. C Ryder works was full of error.


Did you even read the article or you probably read it closing your eyes, you shot yourself by giving me that article, you were so eager to prove your point so you went ahead to give me an article that was even against what you are saying

Oghene n uhe was never ooni or ife


Uhe means stranger or outsiders in edo language
And not necessarily yoruba

Benin was not given by yorubas because never even in benin language do a benin man call himself ovbie benin or even the vassal state called them benin but rather a name smilar to edo, the Portuguese outrightly gave the name benin to edo people

gregyboy:




(1) But we cant desregard the records that the Portuguese made documents to that there was an oghene that was sovereign over them tho the writer disagree bluntly it was ever ife...


(2) Please you also don't need to delete your account when the truth is about unfolding

(1) You seem to have missed a reply.

(2) Of course ghostwon will want to delete his account. I gave him a bloody nose.

I am responsible for why he also deleted his former account, Prolog3111.

gregyboy:


Provide prove that a. F. C Ryder works was full of error





(1) Did you even read the article or you probably read it closing your eyes, you shot yourself by giving me that article, you were so eager to prove your point

(2) so you went ahead to give me an article that was even against what you are saying


(3) Oghene n uhe was never ooni or ife. Uhe means stranger or outsiders in edo language And not necessarily yoruba 

(4) [s]Benin was not given by yorubas because never even in benin language do a benin man call himself ovbie benin or even the vassal state called them benin but rather a name smilar to edo, the Portuguese outrightly gave the name benin to edo people.[/s]

Provide proof that anybody said it "was full of error".

Ryder himself admitted and makes it quite clear that he wasn't certain about his conclusion, dated 1965.

Until in recent years when ScholarS (not some individual opinion) have now come to the consensus of identifying the Ogane as the Ooni of Ife.

See attached for the quote, reference, and date.


Modified
Why did you go back to add some more comments without any indicating?

Anyways, moving on ...

(1) I have read and digested this 1965 article years ago. You obviously just stumbled upon it.

And Ryder himself admitted that his own conlusion is uncertain with his use of "probably"

In fact, he similarly concludes in the same way in his final SUMMARY as follows:

"... but the chronology and direction of dynastic movements still remain obscure, and the seemingly fixed points of reference becomes far less certain when placed in context."

That was his uncertain deductions as at 1965 in relation to the identification of the Ogane.

But fast forward to the year 2016, scholars have finally reached a consensus on the identification of the Ogane.

Refer to the attachment below for the quote and the reference including year.


(2) What article did I give you when?? And what point did the so-called article go against??

Are you 'sleep-typing' ??


(3) Well, except that on this you're alone on one side and all historians are on another side.

Even Omo N'Oba Erediauwa II would have cursed you if you had said this while he was still alive.

He specifically noted in his 2004 The Benin-Ife Connection that:

"Erinmwinde's son grew but could not speak and words was sent to Uhe ("Ife" ). Oghene n'Uhe ("or Oduduwa" ) then sent a babalawo ..."

See here for copy: https://www.edo-nation.net/erediauwa1.htm


(3) On this too, you're alone on one side, and historians are on another side.

Provide your evidence for your sick and incoherent revisions here and also tell us the meaning of the supposed originally Portuguese word "Benin".

Cheers!

AreaFada2:

Kikikikiki. Nor be only Ogedengbe, na Agodogodo. What could have been doesn't matter in war. The leader of the Gauls Vercingetorix nearly defeated Julius Caesar in Alesia in France. But he didn't. Caesar went on to become the most famous general and quasi emperor in history.

I doubt even Ogedengbe History. Even if true, Nigeria is being bloodied by ragtag Boko, Russia had to pull out of Afghanistan and King Darius dealt Alexander the Great much blows initially.

Only novices underestimate the enemy in war. A seemingly weak enemy can be initially tougher than thought. But at the end the better warrior wins by hook or by crook.

Point of correction : Benin lead Midwest to leave the British contraption called Western Nigeria. Not the other way round. The pain of it is still raw. Hence you guys keep making unguarded utterances.

It was also a careless utterance by the Alake in the Western parliament back then that made Oba Akenzua to lead Midwest to walk out. And leaving Western region was sealed. That was the most constitutionally possible. Were outright secession legally possible, Midwest would have triggered that option to detach completely.

SW people talk a lot. SS people act. SW Brag, throw insults around and threaten. Yet no action. Such does not impresss us. That's no sophistication. Midwest acted after West talked anyhow. That's the difference.

When a Yoruba person says the truth going against tribal position, he is Omale. A lying Yoruba that toes tribal line is Omoluabi. Hence we are all suffering the Nigerian mess together under Hausa-Fukani. Because of your " sophistication".

Sophistication is the new rave with the SW. Benin was already described in terms better than that back in 1470s. So such a term is a bit lake to us over 550 years later.

Caesar restrategized, fought back and defeated Vercingetorix, your Oba never did but beg. The difference is clear.

Of course, you won't since it deflated your ego. Your Boko analogy didn't add up. Ogedengbe came with invading army from an entirely different kingdom from Benin, not some ragtag, hit and run terrorist like Shekau. It would have been a conventional warfare if your Oba had taken the challenge but he chickened out.

Spare me your sermon and answer the questions posed to you. Your sermon could have been more useful today had it been your Benin defeated Ogedengbe and halt the incursion of Ibadan into your 'tributaries' of eastern Yoruba like you love to claim.

Wether you are part or non part of the southwest does not matter to us. We don't care.

Lol. You take actions? Like killing military men which riled the government and attracted massacre to Odi community in 1999? Like shouting 'our oil, our oil' and kidnapping foreign nationals thereby prompting them to relocate their headquarters to Lagos, Southwest? You have no business talking about sophistication oga, your people are emotionally driven. Only a barbarian put war in the first option.


We do not roll like that. Knowledge is knowing what to do, wisdom is knowing when to do it. This is one of our guiding principles. That is why we choose our battle wisely. This is the basic principle of war. We weigh the marginal benefit against marginal cost before making a choice. This is a simple economic concept your people lacked and it cost them a lot and still doing.

We are the most tolerant group in Nigeria. The most industrialized region. The most educated region. We lead in many HDIs. This is sophistication. Thank you.

TAO11:


There is actually no need re-posting the same comment of yours to another different and unrelated comment of mine just to give your gullible audience the false and deceptive impression that you're replying to all the comments from the yOrUbAs.

Moving on ...

(1) Lol! You noted that you see a "contradiction" between Dr. R. E. Bradbury's less graphic & less detailed description; and Chief J. U. Egharevba's explicit and minute description.

Well, I would have thought that you wouldn't have merely ignored the "contradiction" you see, but that you would instead have pointed it out for all to learn the updated definition of a 'contradiction'.

In fact, you have a burden of proof for any implicit or explicit claims you make. What you do not have is the freedom to shirk (or "ignore" ) from proving any explicit or implicit claim you make.

(2) No I didn't make the claim. Rather, it was Frank Willet --- the archaeologist conducted the 1961-2 excavation of Orun Oba Ado --- who found a total of eleven "burial pits" at the site.

I am not sure why you assumed that it was I who conducted the excavation, even when I actually cited clear references to Frank Willett.

Moreover, if it is not a typo, then please be sure that there is no such thing as "Arun Oba Ado". All historical sources say "Orun Oba Ado". I am not particularly clear how you confuse "A" and "O" on a keyboard. They are almost on opposite sides. Please fix that going forward.

Furthermore, contrary to your misrepresentation, none of my sources say the "Oba was taken to Ife"

Instead, Chief J. U. Egharevba whom you refer to here say: "the head ...", and yes he added the detail that: "this was only done in every third reign."

And I'm yet to see how you arrived at the supposed "contradiction" between Dr. R. E. Bradbury's description and Chief J. U. Egharevba's description, in case you still insist on that.


(3) I am not sure if you usually take time to carefully read what you spend time responding to.

If you had taken your time to carefully read my comment in this regard, then you would have noticed that I must have done the enumeration already.

In fact, not only have I done it, I have also found that the enumeration of the number, of third-reign Benin Obas, matches the number of "burial pits" found by Frank Willett exactly.

And I proceeded to "challenge any Bini reading ... to do the enumeration" themselves and revert with their result for comparison.

Yes you're right, the listing of the "Obas of Benin are well documented". Thanks to Egharevba et al. whom you all hate so much for been uneconomical with the truth.

I also provided information on the complete listing of Benin kings in my earlier comment.

As a reminder, the following are my precise words:

"Now, how many third-reigns are there between Oranmiyan's reign on one hand, and the reign before Ovoranmwen's on the other hand??

Note: Ovoranmwen's incomplete reign in 1897 marks the point from when the British intervened in Benin's polity when they exiled him to Calabar.

I challenge any Bini reading this to do the enumeration, and then revert back to this thread with the number, to allow for a comparison with the "eleven" "burial pits" which Frank Willett found at Orun Oba Ado."

(4) Here you tried to be cunning by introducing the word "Assuming".

No, it is utterly counterintuitive to assume what is already known from both historical and archaeological evidence.

We know from historical information --- as I have shown --- that the head of the Oba was sent to Ife for burial.

We know from corroborating archaeological evidence (as I have shown) that not only were "burial pits" found at Orun Oba Ado, there are a total of "eleven" of them --- a number which precisely matches the result of enumeration of the Benin Obas.

These thus definitively establish the tradition of burial at Orun Oba Ado to be a historical fact.

And it is absurd to counterintuitively assume the very thing that has been definitively established.

So, your question which follows your request for assumption, thus becomes modified as follows:

Knowing now that the heads of the Benin Obas were indeed burried at Orun Oba Ado, why then are the "burial pits" empty??

And the rational answer is that they were obviously exhumed --- for further rites.

Just as any rational mind would expect that an item they had actually stationed at a spot but which couldn't be found there later was indeed moved.

In fact --- to be emphatic --- whatever had later happened to the heads after they had first been evidently burried there changes absolutely nothing about the admitted fact that they were burried there.

(5) No, the only fairytale is the fictional story of a certain Ekaladerhan who roamed the forest and eventually found his way to Ife to become Oduduwa. Lol

Refer to the link below to notice how this "Edowood" fiction of Ekaladerhan has been debunked and trashed by the world's most prolific historian on Benin History et al.:

And please remind me of the skydiving mission of Ogiso Igodo --- I miss fiction!

(6)

(7) Regarding the "simple arithmetic", I have already replied you on that. But for emphasis:

The enumeration of the Benin Obas matches exactly the number of "burial pits" found by Frank Willett at Orun Oba Ado --- "eleven".

(

Cheers!

Guy, are you seriously for real.

All I asked was just two simple questions and you went on Gulliver's travels and returned without answering my questions, only to publicly state that you have done the calculations in secret and they matched.

You are now asking the Benin to do their own calculations and come back for comparison.

I am not going to let you off lightly on this, no matter the diversionary tactics because you bragged earlier to have all the evidence to prove that Orun Oba Ado is not a fallacy. You even bragged to school me on it the way you did those before me.

Ejo, I am going to request that you answer just one of the two previous simple question this time.

You claimed eleven empty burial pits were found in Orun Oba Ado and one of your sources claimed that every third-reigns Oba was taken to Ife for burial.

1. Considering that the numbers of Obas of Benin are well documented, please do the enumeration and tell us if your numbers add up to back up your claim and show us your evidence/how you arrived at your conclusion.

This is just one simple question that don't need long essays and beating around the bush.

Please don't disappoint your Yoruba compatriots that are going to read your reply.

If you don't know the answer to the question, be humble enough to say so and I may just be magnanimous enough to do the calculations for you and it doesn't add up which proves your Orun Oba Ado as fabrication.

gomojam:
Caesar restrategized, fought back and defeated Vercingetorix, your Oba never did but beg. The difference is clear.

Of course, you won't since it deflated your ego. Your Boko analogy didn't add up. Ogedengbe came with invading army from an entirely different kingdom from Benin, not some ragtag, hit and run terrorist like Shekau. It would have been a conventional warfare if your Oba had taken the challenge but he chickened out.

Spare me your sermon and answer the questions posed to you. Your sermon could have been more useful today had it been your Benin defeated Ogedengbe and halt the incursion of Ibadan into your 'tributaries' of eastern Yoruba like you love to claim.

Wether you are part or non part of the southwest does not matter to us. We don't care.

Lol. You take actions? Like killing military men which riled the government and attracted massacre to Odi community in 1999? Like shouting 'our oil, our oil' and kidnapping foreign nationals thereby prompting them to relocate their headquarters to Lagos, Southwest? You have no business talking about sophistication oga, your people are emotionally driven. Only a barbarian put war in the first option.


We do not roll like that. Knowledge is knowing what to do, wisdom is knowing when to do it. This is one of our guiding principles. That is why we choose our battle wisely. This is the basic principle of war. We weigh the marginal benefit against marginal cost before making a choice. This is a simple economic concept your people lacked and it cost them a lot and still doing.

We are the most tolerant group in Nigeria. The most industrialized region. The most educated region. We lead in many HDIs. This is sophistication. Thank you.

No doubt ogendegbe visited benin but he was driven out by an uromj warlord sent by the oba

The oba never begged him so stop that lie

samuk:


[s]Guy, are you seriously for real.

(1) All I asked was just two simple questions and you went on Gulliver's travels and returned without answering my questions, only to publicly state that you have done the calculations in secret and they matched.

(2) You are now asking the Benin to do their own calculations and come back for comparison.

(3) [s]I am not going to let you off lightly on this, no matter the diversionary tactics because you bragged earlier to have all the evidence to prove that Orun Oba Ado is not a fallacy. You even bragged to schooled me on it the way you did those before me.[/s]

(4) Ejo, I am going to request that you answer just one of the two previous simple questions this time.

(5) You claimed eleven empty burial pits were found in Orun Oba Ado and one of your sources claimed that every third-reigns Oba was taken to Ife for burial.

(6) 1. Considering that the numbers of Obas of Benin are well documented, [s]please do the enumeration and tell us if your numbers add up to back up your claim[/s] and show us your evidence/how you arrived at your conclusion.

(7) [s]This is just one simple questions that don't need long essays and beating around the bush.

Please don't disappoint your Yoruba compatriots that are going to read your reply.

If you don't know the answer to the question, be humble enough to say so and I may just be magnanimous enough to do the calculations for you.[/s]

Never expect to lie and not be exposed. I am only responding to all your lies and deceptions point by point.

(1) You're a such a fatuous liar.

You never specifically requested me to show how I arrived at my enumeration result.

You're just making that as a fresh request now, yet you're dishonestly passing it off as though you did earlier.

To quote your words, your earlier request is simply as follows:

" ... please do the enumeration and tell us if your numbers add up."

In fact towards the end of your comment, you wrote:

 "I am waiting for the result of the simple arithmetic assignment..."

And my response to these specific request of yours was that:

"The enumeration of the Benin Obas matches exactly the number of "burial pits" found by Frank Willett at Orun Oba Ado --- "eleven"."

So, in what way did I not answer the specific question you asked.


(2) I am not sure if you lie for a living, or you just don't read what you reply to.

Even if the latter is the truth, then it makes you a m0r0n for typing out replies to comments you didn't read.

I didn't just set the challenge (to the Binis) in my foregoing reply. I had already done that in my first comment in which I had tagged you among others.

Once again the question and the challenge to the Binis which I had set out with in my initial comment remains as follows:

"Now, how many third-reigns are there between Oranmiyan's reign on one hand, and the reign before Ovoranmwen's on the other hand??

Note: Ovoranmwen's incomplete reign in 1897 marks the point from when the British intervened in Benin's polity when they exiled him to Calabar.

I challenge any Bini reading this to do the enumeration, and then revert back to this thread with the number, to allow for a comparison with the "eleven" "burial pits" which Frank Willett found at Orun Oba Ado."

In other words, it is I who had originally put out this question and challenge to the Bini --- yourself included.

So, stop pretending that you did first just to cover up your shying away from reverting here with a number.

Anyways I will show a clear and detailed enumeration here. Keep calm!

(3)

(4) There is not one single question which you had asked up to this point which I haven't answerd, including the result of enumeration of the Benin Obas.

That is despite the fact that it is I who first asked you the very same question to which you've provided no response up to this point.

(5) You seem to be bent on making it appear like I was the lead archaeologist of Orun Oba Ado. No, it is not a mere claim, neither is it mine.

Instead, that is a result from Frank Willett's archaeological find at Orun Oba Ado wherein he found eleven burial pits, six of which were fully excavated.

I gave you detailed reference. So, stop acting ignorantly.

And yes, Chief Egharevba noted that the practice was done in every third reign.

(6) Now that you've made a new additional request that I should demonstrate how I arrived at my answer, I will proceed to meet this request too as always.

(7)

Please see my next comment for a clear and detailed demonstration of how I arrived at my answer.

The following shows a listing of all the reigns in Benin starting from Oranmiyan's all the way down to before Ovoranmwen's whose partial reign and imminent deposing marked the beginning of the British colonial take over of Benin's polity.

Refer to https://www.edoworld.net/Obas.html for a verification of this listing.

1. Oronmiyan
2. Eweka I
3. Uwakhuanhen ☆
4. Ehenmihen
5. Ewedo
6. Oguola ☆
7. Edoni
8. Udagbedo
9. Ohen ☆
10. Ogbeka
11. Orobiru
12. Uwaifiokun ☆
13. Ewuare I
14. Ezoti
15. Olua ☆
16. Ozolua
17. Esegie
18. Orhogbua ☆
19. Ehengbuda
20. Ohuan
21. Ahenzae ☆
22. Akenzua
23. Akengboi
24. Akenkpaye ☆
25. Akengbodo
26. Oroghene
27. Ewuakpe ☆
28. Ozuere
29. Akenzua I
30. Eresoyen ☆
31. Akengbuda
32. Obanosa
33. Ogbebo ☆
34. Osemwende
35. Adolor
36. Ovoranmwen

(A) Starting with Oronmiyan as the reference point, I have indicated the successive "third-reigns" with a "☆" for ease of following through.

And there are obviously eleven "third-reigns" in total.

(B) If, however, one contends that Oronmiyan was not formally Oba at Benin, and that the enumeration should start with Eweka I as the reference point; then the eventual total number of "third-reigns" would still remain eleven.

(C) Even if you argue that the tradition resulted from an after-thought subsequent to when the "first" Oba Eweka I had already left the scene, the eventual total number of "third-reigns" --- starting thus with Uwakhuahen as the reference point --- would still remain eleven.


As I have since noted before now, this resulting total number of "third-reigns" (i.e. eleven )
matches precisely the total number of circular "burial pits" (i.e. "eleven" ) which Frank Willett noted that he found at Orun Oba Ado, when he conducted an archaeological excavation of the site.

Refer below for reference to Frank Willett's find:
WILLETT 2004: Chapter 1.3. cited in James W. Lankton, O. Akin Ige, & Thilo Rehren, "Early Primary Glass Production in Southern Nigeria", Journal of African Archaeology, Vol. 4 (1), 2006, pp.125-126.
See copy here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274431270_Early_primary_glass_production_in_southern_Nigeria


gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun


ghostwon
gregyboy
davidnazee
samuk

TAO11:


Never expect to lie and not be exposed. I am only responding to all your lies and deceptions point by point.

(1) You're a such a fatuous liar.

You never specifically requested me to show how I arrived at my enumeration result.

You're just making that as a fresh request now, yet you're dishonestly passing it off as though you did earlier.

To quote your words, your earlier request is simply as follows:

" ... please do the enumeration and tell us if your numbers add up."

In fact towards the end of your comment, you wrote:

 "I am waiting for the result of the simple arithmetic assignment..."

And my response to these specific request of yours was that:

"The enumeration of the Benin Obas matches exactly the number of "burial pits" found by Frank Willett at Orun Oba Ado --- "eleven"."

So, in what way did I not answer the specific question you asked.


(2) I am not sure if you lie for a living, or you just don't read what you reply to.

Even if the latter is the truth, then it makes you a m0r0n for typing out replies to comments you didn't read.

I didn't just set the challenge (to the Binis) in my foregoing reply. I had already done that in my first comment in which I had tagged you among others.

Once again the question and the challenge to the Binis which I had set out with in my initial comment remains as follows:

"Now, how many third-reigns are there between Oranmiyan's reign on one hand, and the reign before Ovoranmwen's on the other hand??

Note: Ovoranmwen's incomplete reign in 1897 marks the point from when the British intervened in Benin's polity when they exiled him to Calabar.

I challenge any Bini reading this to do the enumeration, and then revert back to this thread with the number, to allow for a comparison with the "eleven" "burial pits" which Frank Willett found at Orun Oba Ado."

In other words, it is I who had originally put out this question and challenge to the Bini --- yourself included.

So, stop pretending that you did first just to cover up your shying away from reverting here with a number.

Anyways I will show a clear and detailed enumeration here. Keep calm!

(3)

(4) There is not one single question which you had asked up to this point which I haven't answerd, including the result of enumeration of the Benin Obas.

That is despite the fact that it is I who first asked you the very same question to which you've provided no response up to this point.

(5) You seem to be bent on making it appear like I was the lead archaeologist of Orun Oba Ado. No, it is not a mere claim, neither is it mine.

Instead, that is a result from Frank Willett's archaeological find at Orun Oba Ado wherein he found eleven burial pits, six of which were fully excavated.

I gave you detailed reference. So, stop acting ignorantly.

And yes, Chief Egharevba noted that the practice was done in every third reign.

(6) Now that you've made a new additional request that I should demonstrate how I arrived at my answer, I will proceed to meet this request too as always.

(7)

Please see my next comment for a clear and detailed demonstration of how I arrived at my answer.

What is the long essay about, just show me the simple arithmetic on how you arrived at your conclusion that the burying of every third Obas of Benin in your eleven Orun Oba Ado empty burial pits accounted for all the Obas of Benin.

Docking and diving the question will not save you.

This is the only one time you were asked a simple logical question, you failed woefully because you can't cut and paste the answer from anywhere.

The good thing about all these is that non bias nairalanders will read my question and your answer and they will make their own judgement.

Haven't caught you pants down and haven't woefully failed to prove your claim, I will just seat back and let you entertain me with your fairytales.

samuk:


[s]What is the long essay about, just show me the simple arithmetic on how you arrived at your conclusion that the burying of every third Obas of Benin in your eleven Orun Oba Ado empty burial pits accounted for all the Obas of Benin.

Docking and diving the question will not save you.

This is the only one time you were asked a simple logical question, you failed woefully because you can't cut and paste the answer from anywhere.

The good thing about all these is that non bias nairalanders will read my question and your answer and they will make their own judgement.

Haven't caught you pants down and haven't woefully failed to prove your claim, I will just seat back and let you entertain me with your fairytales.[/s]

Lol! You seem to have missed a comment above. Go to the comment just after the one you responded to here.

Anyways, I like to say some words in reply to this particular comment of yours here.

If you had cared to read what you were replying to, then you would have realized that my reply following the foregoing one about which you're ranting here was used up in responding to your lies.

You lied that that you had requested me to demonstrate my enumaration here.

Rather, what you had asked for was that I should enumerate and tell you if the numbers match which I did, even though that request was originally from me to you and other Binis.

And if you had been patient enough to read to the end, then you would have noticed where I indicated thay my reaponse to your new request will follow in my next comment. And it did.

If you hate that your lies should be exposed, then there is a simple solution to it --- stop lying!

gregyboy:

But we cant desregard the records that the Portuguese made documents to that there was an oghene that was sovereign over them tho the writer disagree bluntly it was ever ife...

Which documents ?

gregyboy:


Please you also don't need to delete your account when the truth is about unfolding

Which truth ?
You guys on nairaland take yourselves too seriously, but you for example and the yoruba guys are not smart at all.
You reason like toddlers and seem to have dedicated your lives to trolling on nairaland.
I have bigger ambitions than trollig all day on nairaland and other social media.

Whenever I notice I have too much social media presence, I leave. And you in particular, I really can't stand you.
I correct you ten times on the same thing only for you to repeat the mistake.
You have problems using your brain.
And you have an incredibly low self esteem. You have eurocentric views as well. Some people even think you may be a white south african.
Produce the document you are talking about.
The fact I even have to ask you to produce the said document is annoying in itself.

I bet I have already debunked more than 5 times whatever you are going to respond with.

ghostwon:

Nobody in Benin Kingdom talked about some oghene !
The ease whith which you can just believe things amazes me.
Orgvene is a mythical kingdom, it never existed, it is a myth !
It is a myth attached to an other mythical creature (prester john) .
Also Ogvene the myth has nothing to do with ife village which only appears on 19th century maps.
Why are you so easy to fool ? (it is almost as if you are begging to be fooled)
What do you want me to tell you on whatsapp which I haven't said here many many times and which you never listened to ?
Do you believe my life is all about nairaland, you think I have more time to waste ?
Wise up, stop believing things without proof and learn how to look for genuine information, not all you read is true.

I can't possibly have a conversation with you. You need to wise up.

Haha! You've been shut up on this before. The only myth here is your comment.

Refer here for a reminder:

https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/13#88028590

cc: gregyboy

TAO11:
The following shows a listing of all the reigns in Benin starting from Oranmiyan's all the way down to before Ovoranmwen's whose partial reign and imminent deposing marked the beginning of the British colonial intervention in Benin's polity.

Refer to https://www.edoworld.net/Obas.html for a verification of this listing.

1. Oronmiyan
2. Eweka I
3. Uwakhuanhen ☆
4. Ehenmihen
5. Ewedo
6. Oguola ☆
7. Edoni
8. Udagbedo
9. Ohen ☆
10. Ogbeka
11. Orobiru
12. Uwaifiokun ☆
13. Ewuare I
14. Ezoti
15. Olua ☆
16. Ozolua
17. Esegie
18. Orhogbua ☆
19. Ehengbuda
20. Ohuan
21. Ahenzae ☆
22. Akenzua
23. Akengboi
24. Akenkpaye ☆
25. Akengbodo
26. Oroghene
27. Ewuakpe ☆
28. Ozuere
29. Akenzua I
30. Eresoyen ☆
31. Akengbuda
32. Obanosa
33. Ogbebo ☆
34. Osemwende
35. Adolor
36. Ovoranmwen

(A) Starting with Oronmiyan as the reference point, I have indicated the successive "third-reigns" with a "☆" for ease of following through.

And there are obviously eleven "third-reigns" in total.

(B) If, however, one contends that Oronmiyan was not formally Oba at Benin, and that the enumeration should start with Eweka I as the reference point; then the eventual total number of "third-reigns" would still remain eleven.

(C) Even if you argue that the tradition resulted from an after-thought subsequent to when the "first" Oba Eweka I had already left the scene, the eventual total number of "third-reigns" --- starting thus with Uwakhuahen as the reference point --- would still remain eleven.


As I have since noted before now, this resulting total number of "third-reigns" (i.e. eleven )
matches precisely the total number of circular "burial pits" (i.e. "eleven" ) which Frank Willett noted that he found at Orun Oba Ado, when he conducted an archaeological excavation of the site.

Refer below for reference to Frank Willett's find:
WILLETT 2004: Chapter 1.3. cited in James W. Lankton, O. Akin Ige, & Thilo Rehren, "Early Primary Glass Production in Southern Nigeria", Journal of African Archaeology, Vol. 4 (1), 2006, pp.125-126.
See copy here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274431270_Early_primary_glass_production_in_southern_Nigeria


gomojam
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun


ghostwon
gregyboy
davidnazee
samuk

Fairytale boy... stop living in fairytale local and both foreign historians don’t agree that ife and Benin ever at one point had a connection the only connection we had with the yorubas are the ones we conquered, the prove is there for even the blind to see not the fairytale ife and Benin connections

gomojam
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon


Your fellow Yoruba brothers should ask you for pictures to make clarity easier let’s see it , atleast the excavation happened in the time of cameras so we get pictures from it

TAO11:
The following shows a listing of all the reigns in Benin starting from Oranmiyan's all the way down to before Ovoranmwen's whose partial reign and imminent deposing marked the beginning of the British colonial intervention in Benin's polity.

Refer to https://www.edoworld.net/Obas.html for a verification of this listing.

1. Oronmiyan
2. Eweka I
3. Uwakhuanhen ☆
4. Ehenmihen
5. Ewedo
6. Oguola ☆
7. Edoni
8. Udagbedo
9. Ohen ☆
10. Ogbeka
11. Orobiru
12. Uwaifiokun ☆
13. Ewuare I
14. Ezoti
15. Olua ☆
16. Ozolua
17. Esegie
18. Orhogbua ☆
19. Ehengbuda
20. Ohuan
21. Ahenzae ☆
22. Akenzua
23. Akengboi
24. Akenkpaye ☆
25. Akengbodo
26. Oroghene
27. Ewuakpe ☆
28. Ozuere
29. Akenzua I
30. Eresoyen ☆
31. Akengbuda
32. Obanosa
33. Ogbebo ☆
34. Osemwende
35. Adolor
36. Ovoranmwen

(A) Starting with Oronmiyan as the reference point, I have indicated the successive "third-reigns" with a "☆" for ease of following through.

And there are obviously eleven "third-reigns" in total.

(B) If, however, one contends that Oronmiyan was not formally Oba at Benin, and that the enumeration should start with Eweka I as the reference point; then the eventual total number of "third-reigns" would still remain eleven.

(C) Even if you argue that the tradition resulted from an after-thought subsequent to when the "first" Oba Eweka I had already left the scene, the eventual total number of "third-reigns" --- starting thus with Uwakhuahen as the reference point --- would still remain eleven.


As I have since noted before now, this resulting total number of "third-reigns" (i.e. eleven )
matches precisely the total number of circular "burial pits" (i.e. "eleven" ) which Frank Willett noted that he found at Orun Oba Ado, when he conducted an archaeological excavation of the site.

Refer below for reference to Frank Willett's find:
WILLETT 2004: Chapter 1.3. cited in James W. Lankton, O. Akin Ige, & Thilo Rehren, "Early Primary Glass Production in Southern Nigeria", Journal of African Archaeology, Vol. 4 (1), 2006, pp.125-126.
See copy here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274431270_Early_primary_glass_production_in_southern_Nigeria


gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun


ghostwon
gregyboy
davidnazee
samuk

I submitted in an earlier post that the reason it's difficult for the forgery and fabrications of Benin history to stand the test of time is because of the many reference points that may be unknown to the forger.

You based your calculations on the assumptions that all Obas of Benin finished their reigns, died and was buried in Benin according to customs and traditions of the land.

The list of the Obas you presented did not take into account the Obas that couldn't be buried in Benin for various reasons which included their body not being found for burial due to drowning.

Infact some of the Obas you cited as their heads being buried in Ife are in the list of Obas that couldn't have been buried in Benin let alone their heads being exhumed and taken to Ife.

If the Obas that where not or couldn't been buried in Benin for various reasons where taken into account, your calculations wouldn't add up.

What you guys always do is to learn new things from the Benin and used the new information to adjust your future fabrications to make them look authentic.

The reason some Benin people are reluctant to debate you guys is because when your errors are pointed out, you take the new revelation/information and use them to come up with reversed fabrications.

There is one small piece of information you guys have since abandoned because of what you learned from the Benin.

Orun Oba Ado fallacy initially started with two sites, one for the remains of male Obas of Benin and another for female Obas of Benin.

This was as a result of the Yorubas thinking that Benin also had female Obas.

Now you don't talk about the female site anymore.

The Orun Oba Ado is a fabrication.

samuk:


I submitted in an earlier post that the reason it's difficult for the forgery and fabrications of Benin history to stand the test of time is because of the many reference points that may be unknown to the forger.

You based your calculations on the assumptions that all Obas of Benin finished their reigns, died and was buried in Benin according to customs and traditions of the land.

The list of the Obas you presented did not take into account the Obas that couldn't be buried in Benin for various reasons which included their body not being found for burial due to drowning.

Infact some of the Obas you cited as their heads being buried in Ife are in the list of Obas that couldn't have been buried in Benin let alone their heads being exhumed and taken to Ife.

If the Obas that where not or couldn't been buried in Benin for various reasons where taken into account, your calculations wouldn't add up.

What you guys always do is to learn new things from the Benin and used the new information to adjust your future fabrications to make them look authentic.

The reason some Benin people are reluctant to debate you guys is because when your errors are pointed out, you take the new revelation/information and use them to come up with reversed fabrications.

There is one small piece of information you guys have since abandoned because of what you learned from the Benin.

Orun Oba Ado fallacy initially started with two sites, one for the remains of male Obas of Benin and another for female Obas of Benin.

This was as a result of the Yorubas thinking that Benin also had female Obas.

Now you don't talk about the female site anymore.

The Orun Oba Ado is a fabrication.

Truly,

Another fabrication would stilk come up anx ot will never end we will always be the ones defending its time we tell the truth,
That oduduwa was always a myth benin never in contact with ife

gregyboy:



Truly,

Another fabrication would stilk come up anx ot will never end we will always be the ones defending its time we tell the truth,
That oduduwa was always a myth benin never in contact with ife

You are very right, that is the reason the Yorubas always come up with provocative threads, to draw the attention of Benin and learn new things with style as the debate goes on, all the new information they learn from the Benins are then used to correct their errors in future revised versions of their fabrications.

The Ife and Oduduwa myth were created to unite all Yorubas under one spiritual umbrella the way the Sultan of Sokoto is the religious and spiritual leader of all muslims and Hausa/Fulani.

Igbo also tried the Same with their Nri story.

Whilst the Hausa/Fulani succeeded, the Yorubas and Igbos are having problems with theirs because of the presence of kings of Benin descendants in these places that will not reduce themselves or submit themselves to those they think are royal and spiritual usurpers and inferior to themselves because of their Benin royal bloods

The same reason the Oba of Lagos will not subscribe to the supremacy of the Ooni even publicly disgracing him by refusing to shake his hand.

Oba of Lagos have severally said in public that the Oba of Benin is his father.

There is also the Alafin/Ooni supremacy tussle.

So trying to include Benin to their Ife/Oduduwa project is very important to those propagating the Yoruba spiritual unification project.

It allows them to extend their reach into all former Benin empire territories and those monarchies that claim Benin ancestry.

They can use it to claim Lagos, Itsekiri and other Benin descendant monarchies true the back door.

In the east, you have the Nri spiritual project having problems because the Arochukwus will not subscribe to it and the Obi of Onitsha, a descendant of Benin will not accept the supremacy of Nri over himself.

The Obi of Onitsha considers himself the true royal blood and the most senior king in Igbo land.

The west and east spiritual unification of the people would have succeeded like the North but because of the egos of the majority tribes.

In the North, the majority Hausa people unite under the leadership of the minority Fulani whilst the Fulani adopted the Hausa language as a common language.

The latter day Hausa majority are not trying to usurp the conquest and historical achievements of the Fulani or trying to rewrite their history.

The west could have done the same by having Yoruba/Benin west with the Oba of Benin as the spiritual leader because he is the one that have the conquest and historical achievements to ascend such a position, you wouldn't have had a situation of the Oba of Lagos publicly disrespecting the Oba of Benin and on exchange the Benin would have adopted the Yoruba language as a common language.

There would have been more unity because everyone would have gotten something out of the union, there would have been no need for these endless debates that further divides the people daily.

The Oba of Benin who would have became the most senior and spiritual leader of the west would have been seen as a Yoruba Oba and Benin history would have became part of the wider Yoruba history because the Benin people would have adopted and be speaking the Yoruba language as a common language.

Those that started the west/Oduduwa unification project were not very clever enough to give everyone something to make them happy to be part of it.

Haven't made that mistake, they are now trying to steal Benin history to make up for it.

Same way the majority Igbos could have come under the spiritual leadership of the Obi of Onitsha rather than causing unnecessary confusions with the Nri project.

samuk:
[s]

You are very right, that is the reason the Yorubas always come up with provocative threads, to draw the attention of Benin and learn new things with style as the debate goes on, all the new information they learn from the Benins are then used to correct their errors in future revised versions of their fabrications.

The Ife and Oduduwa myth were created to unite all Yorubas under one spiritual umbrella the way the Sultan of Sokoto is the religious and spiritual leader of all muslims and Hausa/Fulani.

Igbo also tried the Same with their Nri story.

Whilst the Hausa/Fulani succeeded, the Yorubas and Igbos are having problems with theirs because of the presence of kings of Benin descendants in these places that will not reduce themselves or submit themselves to those they think are royal and spiritual usurpers and inferior to themselves because of their Benin royal bloods

The same reason the Oba of Lagos will not subscribe to the supremacy of the Ooni even publicly disgracing him by refusing to shake his hand.

Oba of Lagos have severally said in public that the Oba of Benin is his father.

There is also the Alafin/Ooni supremacy tussle.

So trying to include Benin to their Ife/Oduduwa project is very important to those propagating the Yoruba spiritual unification project.

It allows them to extend their reach into all former Benin empire territories and those monarchies that claim Benin ancestry.

They can use it to claim Lagos, Itsekiri and other Benin descendant monarchies true the back door.

In the east, you have the Nri spiritual project having problems because the Arochukwus will not subscribe to it and the Obi of Onitsha, a descendant of Benin will not accept the supremacy of Nri over himself.

The Obi of Onitsha considers himself the true royal blood and the most senior king in Igbo land.

The west and east spiritual unification of the people would have succeeded like the North but because of the egos of the majority tribes.

In the North, the majority Hausa people unite under the leadership of the minority Fulani whilst the Fulani adopted the Hausa language as a common language.

The latter day Hausa majority are not trying to usurp the conquest and historical achievements of the Fulani or trying to rewrite their history.

The west could have done the same by having Yoruba/Benin west with the Oba of Benin as the spiritual leader because he is the one that have the conquest and historical achievements to ascend such a position, you wouldn't have had a situation of the Oba of Lagos publicly disrespecting the Oba of Benin and on exchange the Benin would have adopted the Yoruba language as a common language.

There would have more unity because everyone would have gotten something out of the union, there would have been no need for these endless debates that further divides the people daily.

The Oba of Benin who would have became the most senior and spiritual leader of the west would have been seen as a Yoruba Oba because the Benin people would have been speaking the Yoruba language as a common language.

Those that started the west/Oduduwa unification project were not very clever enough to give everyone something to make them happy to be part of it.

Same way the majority Igbos could have come under the spiritual leadership of the Obi of Onitsha rather than causing unnecessary confusions with the Nri project.[/s]

Cancelled it because what you wrote here is a load of Cambodian rubbish... recycled in Congo and dumped in Benin.

I have always tell people on this forum that points are not drawn from little papers when over thousands of technical papers existing...

What the hell is Benin kingdom or whatever rubbish you chose to call it...?


If you don't know much about people , you ask question instead of writing trash or moreover you research about Nri hegemony and where her fame starts and ends and another begins from there. Nri has people it is ascribed to and if you don't know you ask questions instead of exhibiting loads of Ignorance online.


Reloading Nonsense at this 21st century is simply animalistic and archaic...

This is 21st century and Today is 5th of March and as it stands today Igboland is Igboland, hausaland is hausaland, biniland is biniland like wise Yorubaland and others...

Revisionist theorist has never achieved anything with propaganda. You are in Igboland and your ancestors in Benin...what s theory of gigantic propose..and only psyche believes that..


The relationship any group has with anybody is simply that of trade infact businesses and nothing else.

Obi of onitsha has it's allegiance to Igboland. He doesn't answer any Bini name likewise his lineage. The man don't speak Bini or even hear the language.. What on Earth will lead to r/ship if not conquest by old kingdoms and business also.

Come and tell me also that Igboland is Bini ancestry. Relationship are seen by traces but in the case of Bini I am yet even a single drop of it if not unnecessary fictitious article...

Abeg carry this your Bini theory to Urhobo, Itshekiri...

Igbos has passed that nonsense in this 21st century. Even riding through thick of the forest, it was ends with title of either obi, eze or igwe..


The worst fabrication is this nonsense I read of nri to the glory of one nonsense kingdom.