TAO11:
Hahahahhahaha ...

Once upon a time, the art historian and archaeologist, Frank Willet wrote as follows about the Ita-Yemo, Ife artworks:

"Here unquestionably were art works of first importance ... They were so very different from any works of negro art, and so very sophisticated in a European manner that they stood apart from the rest of African sculpture."

Frank Willett, "Bronze and Terra-Cotta Sculptures from Ita Yemo, Ife", The South African Archaeological Bulletin, Vol. 14, No. 56 (Dec., 1959), p.135.

The foregoing laughable, jealousy-induced Nairaland comments finally come to prove my argument that Ife had a super-advanced military ascendancy which overshadows even the leading black African civilization that must have produce such "art works of first importance". /s

It takes a super excellent military ascendancy to successfully clash with a leading black African civilization and despoil some of its most treasured national assets. /s

These national assets were so despoiled by the invading Ife military to the extreme extent that almost no trace of such specific "eloquent [art] of a symmetry, a vitality, a delicacy of form directly reminiscent of ancient Greece" were left remaining on the foreign African soil of its "original" producers. /s

This implied imagery of ancient Ife's military ascendancy over black Africa reminds me of a sad incident which took place in Benin kingdom in the year 1897 when some invading devilishly powerful foreign military grounded and despoiled Benin. The dark memories of this ugly incident is not quick to escape the minds of the Binis even till date.

How come, then, that those anonymous people whom Ife conquered and despoiled from are quick to forget absolutely everything of such an ugly historical incident, to the extent that nothing of such ugly incident is recollected in their traditions, or in the traditions of their conqueror (i.e. Ife)?? /s

The simple explanation for this is that: alongside their artworks, the invading Ife army also looted their collective memory and their collective sense of history. /s

The latest:
When I say: "Britain is Ife", you say "Benin is Anonymous".

Jealosy-induced jokes will always remain what they are anyways!


Cheers to sane Nairalanders!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp8flCwvoAU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IlUMUGUorw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duy5bhrRkqs

YouTube videos confirming the super-advanced marauding ancient Ife military with the ability of looting memories and arts?? ?? ?? ?? /s

When they can't defend their own jealousy-induced jokes, they move to invoke poorly thought-out boomeranging diversionary tactics, just to to save face and give an impression of response.

My Request: "Give me proof that Ife once had such a military genius with the ability of en masse looting of both the artworks and the collective memories of an anonymous leading black African civilization".


His Response: "Well, Binis till date can still remember how the British looted many non-naturalistic artworks from Benin Kingdom in the year 1897, and took them to Europe. There are YouTube videos to prove this".


Me: May be the British Empire is the modern reappearance of ancient Ife afterall. May be, who knows? /s


I am fairly certain that both Bovi and BasketMouth combined can not produce funnier jokes than those I'm reading from Benin Nairalanders today.


A Final Note:
It has never occurred anywhere (whether in videos, journal articles, books, essays, ... anywhere) where any scholar ever ranked Benin artworks over Ife artworks using any criteria whatsoever. Never! Abomination! It has never happened. It is always the other way round.

Cheers to sane Nairalanders.

TAO11:
YouTube videos confirming the super-advanced marauding ancient Ife military with the ability of looting memories and arts?? ?? ?? ?? /s

When they can't defend their own jealousy-induced jokes, they move to invoke poorly thought-out boomeranging diversionary tactics, just to to save face and give an impression of response.

My Request: "Give me proof that Ife once had such a military genius with the ability of en masse looting of both the artworks and the collective memories of an anonymous leading black African civilization".


Response: "Well, Binis till date can still remember how the British looted many non-naturalistic artworks from Benin Kingdom in the year 1897, and took them to Europe. There are YouTube videos to prove this".


Me: May be the British Empire is the modern reappearance of ancient Ife afterall. May be, who knows? /s


I am fairly certain that both Bovi and BasketMouth combined can not produce funnier jokes than those I'm reading from Benin Nairalanders today.


A Final Note:
It has never occurred anywhere (whether in videos, journal articles, books, essays, ... anywhere) where any scholar ever ranked Benin artworks over Ife artworks using any criteria whatsoever. Never! Abomination! It has never happened. It is always the other way round.

Cheers to sane Nairalanders.

I was willing to pay any amount just to see your face when those video clips popped up on your screen, I hope you didn't break your screen in anger.

While the children of hate continue to hate in Nigeria, the world is daily learning about Benin empire and history. They don't even have to travel to Nigeria for those history lessons.

Benin doesn't even have to teach their history anymore, people of the world now teaches Benin history to themselves and their children because it's world heritage and Benin's contributions to the world.

Abeg let me go and look for a cool spot to eat my amala and ewedu/gbegiri soup while listening to Ebenezer Obey for a change.

I already know there are some artworks called Benin artworks. I also know that experts regard the Ife artworks as more sophisticated and more antique than any artwork from Benin Kingdom. All these I already knew.


What I didn't know which I just knew, however, is that jealousy led you to make reckless laughable suppositions which you're now seriously struggling to dissociate yourself from.

No! Your ineffectual distractions only serve to magnify your disgrace further. The issues remain those found in the links below. Cheers!

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/44#88731083

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/45#88733590

TAO11:
I already know there are some artworks called Benin artworks and I know there are some YouTube videos of them such as those above. I also know that scholars found that the Ife artworks are more sophisticated and more antique than any workfrom Benin Kingdom. All these I already knew.


What I didn't know which I just knew, however, is that jealousy led you to make reckless laughable supposition which you're now seriously struggling to dissociate yourself from.

No! Your ineffectual distractions only serve to magnify your disgrace further. The issues remain those found in these links. Cheers!

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/44#88731083

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/45#88733590

While you know what you know in your little enclave, the world is daily learning about Benin empire and history in their museums, they are having seminals, debates and lectures arguing about Benin.

Good to know it is not only on Nairaland that the history of Benin is daily being debated. It is happening across the world. Such is the importance of Benin to the world.

Now that I am almost through with my amala with ewedu and gbegiri, I need to step it down with isiewu and change the music from Ebenezer Obey to Osita Osadebe. Others can be prisoners of their little enclaves while I enjoy whatever goodies every culture have to offer.


Meanwhile, see the link to the photo of late Ooni using the Benin traditional sword/sceptre, Ada. I guess it will be shameful for any Ooni to use it today because of trying to form superiority.

Late Ooni Sijuade beside him is an ADA hoisted, that clearly prove what we have been saying. Ooni carrying the royal emblem invented by Ogiso Ere in about 107AD. Make una commot shame for face una be our children.
N.B: They will never make this picture public because of its implications but thank God say we dey burst their bubble all the time.

Oba gha tokpere. Ise

https://www.facebook.com/100003470195379/posts/2837851166340529/

samuk:


While you know what you know in your little enclave, the world is daily learning about Benin empire and history in their museums, they are having seminals, debates and lectures arguing about Benin.

Good to know it is not only on Nairaland that the history of Benin is daily being debated. It is happening across the world. Such is the importance of Benin to the world.

Now that I am almost through with my amala with ewedu and gbegiri, I need to step it down with isiewu and change the music from Ebenezer Obey to Osita Osadebe. Others can be prisoners of their little enclaves while I enjoy whatever goodies every culture have to offer.


Meanwhile, see the link of the photo of late Ooni using the Benin traditional sword/sceptre, Ada. I guess it will be shameful for any Ooni to use it today because of trying to form superiority.

Late Ooni Sijuade beside him is an ADA hoisted, that clearly prove what we have been saying. Ooni carrying the royal emblem invented by Ogiso Ere in about 107AD. Make una commot shame for face una be our children.
N.B: They will never make this picture public because of its implications but thank God say we dey burst their bubble all the time.

Oba gha tokpere. Ise

https://www.facebook.com/100003470195379/posts/2837851166340529/

TAO11

gregyboy:


TAO11

Every important traditional rulers in southern and middle belt Nigeria are all using Benin traditional emblems. From Obi of Onitsha to Ooni of Ife, they were/are all using Ada and Eben sceptre. The Attah of Igala is wearing the Benin Idia mask around his neck. Numerous of them borrowed and replicated the Benin traditional chieftaincy titles.

What do Benin get in return for all these, insults upon insults from those that should be appreciative and grateful.

I warned them before, let them keep debating the Benin and see what is left of their Ife myths destroyed beyond repair.

samuk:


Every important traditional rulers in southern and middle belt Nigeria are all using Benin traditional emblems. From Obi of Onitsha to Ooni of Ife, they were/are all using Ada and Eben sceptre. The Attah of Igala is wearing the Benin Idia mask around his neck. Numerous of them borrowed and replicated the Benin traditional chieftaincy titles.

What do Benin get in return for all these, insults upon insults from those that should be appreciative and grateful.

I warned them before, let them keep debating the Benin and see what is left of their Ife myths destroyed beyond repair.

The truth, is nigeria cherish the benin history and culture very much sometimes it breeds jealousy and hatred feom other tribe

When the movie blackpanther came out, nigerians were just shouting in joy when the saw the benin arts in the movie we all were happy
The benin art and history gives prestige to not just the benins alone as well as nigeria

Our red coral beed is a general beaded attire in Southern nigeria soon the hausa will be forced to join in, and even other African country
Before you know they start tagging it African bead and not benin anymore but we thankgod for our documentation it wilk never get to that point


Our egusi soup is now even been accorded to both yoruba and igbos, when originally is a benin soup

The yorubas cant wait to get hold of our culture and history to themselves because they envy it so much so even if the news of Oduduwa myth is made public by thier ooni they will find another means to claim our history to themselves ,
The tribalism back in that ooni era had not sank in like it is now compare to in the past so the ooni could bodly hold an ada and feel superior with it

Are we going to both pretend that you've mistakenly forgotten about your public bungle?? See link for reminder:

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/44#88731083

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/45#88733590


Moving on to my job of educating the global public:
Ancient Ife artworks are found in Museums all over the world in Britain, in the U.S. et al. not because they were looted as punishment against the wish of their original owners.

Your elders cry and grief daily while begging that the punishment is enough, and that their artworks be returned. Yet a lost Benin is here on Nairaland priding himself on the very thing that brings daily tears to his parents.

And regarding the royal metal scepter, well it's a pity that you're ignorant, but my duty is to educate you as always.

The royal insignia of a metal scepter called Ada, Ida or Agada (depending on the dialect of the part of Yorubaland or beyond) emanates from Ife.

And such picture is not private, even though it may be private for you and the Bini Facebook account holder.

We have such pictures of not only Oba Okunade Sijuwade, but also of his predecessor, Oba Adesoji Aderemi, and of their successor, the reigning Ooni --- Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi.

Moreover, this metal royal insignia is found all over Yorubaland, from Ife itself, to NorthWest Yorubalands such Oyo where it is called Ida; to Southern Yorubalands where it is called Agada.

In Oyo for instance where it is called Ida Oranmiyan, it has to be taken back to Ife for reconsecration whenever a new Alaafin is to be crowned.
Reference:
R.C.C. Law, The Heritage of Oduduwa, (1973), pp.210-211.

Examining The Stronger Evidence:
The practice of casting metals (iron smelting particularly) is not known by experts to be earlier in Benin kingdom than in Yorubaland.

Archaeological evidence of metal working sites within Yorubaland date to at least 160AD. Nothing comes even remotely close to this from Benin kingdom.

Moeover, now that you are willing to disgree with your fellow Bini Nairalanders that Ogisos are real and not mythical:

Let's see, then, what scholars have to say regarding the second Ogiso of Igodomigodo land --- Ogiso Ere --- whom you've attributed (without any evidence) the origin of the royal Benin Ada to: See attachment.

In sum, the attached scholarly submission as well as the archaeological evidence comes to corroborate the widespread Yoruba account that royal scepters (including those of Benin kingdom) emanated from Ile-Ife.

TAO12:
Ancient Ife artworks are found in Museums all over the world in Britain, in the U.S. et al. not because they were looted as punishment against the wish of their original owners.

Your elders cry and grief daily while begging that the punishment is enough, and that their artworks be returned. Yet a lost Benin is here on Nairaland priding himself on the very thing that brings daily tears to his parents.

And regarding the royal metal scepter, well it's a pity that you're ignorant, but my duty is to educate you as always.

The royal insignia of a metal scepter called Ada, Ida or Agada (depending on the dialect of the part of Yorubaland or beyond) emanates from Ife.

And such picture is not private, may be private for you ans Binis. We see not only such a picture of Oba Okunade Sijuwade, but also of his predecessor, Oba Adesoji Aderemi, and of his successor, Oba Adeyey Ogunwusi.

Moreover, this metal royal insignia is found all over Yorubaland, from Ife itself, to NorthWest Yorubalands such Oyo where it is called Ida; to Southern Yorubalands where it is called Agada.

In Oyo for instance where it is called Ida Oranmiyan, it has to be taken back to Ife for reconsecration whenever a new Alaafin is to be crowned.

Reference
R. C. C. Law, The Heritage of Oduduwa, (1973), pp.210-211.[size=8pt][/size]


Examining The Stronger Evidence:

The practice of casting metals (iron smelting particularly) is not known by experts to be earlier in Benin kingdom than in Yorubaland.

Archaeological evidence of metal working sites within Yorubaland date to at least 160AD. Nothing comes even remotely close to this from Benin kingdom.


Moeover, now that you are willing to disgree with your fellow Bini Nairalanders that Ogisos are real and not mythical:

Let's see, then, what scholars have to say regarding the second Ogiso of Igodomigodo land --- Ogiso Ere --- whom you've attributed (without any evidence) the origin of the royal Benin Ada to: See attachment.

In sum, the attached scholarly submission as well as the archaeological evidence comes to corroborate the widespread Yoruba account that royal scepters (including those of Benin kingdom) emanated from Ile-Ife.

The lies in your write ups are so much that I find it hard at times to read your posts. Ada is now from Ife, you are a fantastic liar and not ashamed of it. I am sure you also have an answer for why the Ooni stop using it.

Eeeeeeyaaaaah!

He has unfortunately used up his lie bank, and he's now stuck on what lie to write in the face of the following evidence:

(a) Widespread Yoruba accounts and surviving use of the Ife royal metal scepter in Yorubaland (including in Benin Kingdom)

(b) Scholarly submission that his first three Ogisos (who they recently ironically consider to be mythical beings) are actually emissaries from Ife.

(c) Archaeological evidence showing that iron smelting is way way way earlier in Yorubaland than in Benin kingdom.

Very satisfying, isn't it?

Having said that, a gentle reminder below:
https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/44#88731083

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/45#88733590

TAO12:
Eeeeeeyaaaaah!

He has unfortunately used up his lie bank and his now stuck what lie to write in the face of the following:

(a) Widespread Yoruba accounts and surviving use of the Ife royal metal scepter in Yorubaland (including in Benin)

(b) Scholarly submission that his first three Ogisos (who they recently ironically consider to bemythical beings) are emissaries from Ife.

(c) Archaeological evidence that iron smelting is way way way earlier in Yorubaland than in Benin kingdom.

Very satisfying, isn't it?

Having said that, a gentle reminder below:

I was waiting for the archeological evidence and interpretation of how Ife was the first to use it and you didn't fail.

Any Ife story that doesn't involve the citing of Benin and archeology and anthropology amounts to nothing.

Whilst you are doing your fabrications on nairaland, I am very satisfied that the rest of the world are daily learning the real history of Benin.

He is still battling his loss.

He can't imagine what hit him. He's dazed.

Don't forget guys, he has never in his life produced anything called evidence.

I think producing evidence to substantiate a claim is a taboo in Benin kingdom.

Anyways, for a summary of recent scholarship on metal technology in Nigeria and Yorubaland, refer to the following:

(1) Bassey W. Andah: "Iron Age Beginnings in West Africa: Reflections and Suggestions," West African Journal of Archaeology, 9, 1979, 135-150.

(2)David Aremu: "Change and Continuity in Mettalurgical Traditions: Origins, Technology and Social Implications," in Ogundiran: Precolonial Nigeria, 133-155.

Those two should be sufficient. We are, however, still waiting for you to produce anything even remotely close to 160AD from Benin Kingdom.

We are also waiting on your insults on D. M. Bondarenko for stating clearly that your first three Ogisos are Ife-Yoruba emissaries.

In summary, everything Benin royal house has, as a royal heritage, always turns out to be from Ife --- including beads which evidence shows to be a manufactured product in Ife since at least the 1100s.

The earliest known use of beads in Benin kingdom, on the other hand, dates to Ewuare I's reign in the late1400s.

Why is all the evidence pointing to Ife?? I am angry right now 'sef' /s


A gentle reminder of your bungle below, though:
https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/44#88731083

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/45#88733590

TAO12:
He is still battling his loss.

He can't imagine what hit him. He's dazed.

Don't forget guys, he has never in his life produced anything called evidence.

I think producing evidence to substantiate a claim is a taboo in Benin kingdom.

Anyways, for a summary of recent scholarship on metal technology in Nigeria and Yorubaland, refer to the following:

(1) Bassey W. Andah: "Iron Age Beginnings in West Africa: Reflections and Suggestions," West African Journal of Archaeology, 9, 1979, 135-150.

(2)David Aremu: "Change and Continuity in Mettalurgical Traditions: Origins, Technology and Social Implications," in Ogundiran: Precolonial Nigeria, 133-155.

Those two should be sufficient. We are, however, still waiting for you to produce anything even remotely close to 160AD from Benin Kingdom.

We are also waiting on your insults on D. M. Bondarenko for stating clearly that your first three Ogisos are Ife-Yoruba emissaries.

Wow, so the Ogiso were also from Ife, Benin/Ife relationship didn't just start with the Obas, how would it be, because the Benin could also refer to the Ogiso era, which will still make Benin older than Ife.

So by extending the Benin/Ife relationship to the Ogiso era, that will make up of that period in Ife history. But don't forget that there are also other periods in Benin history that predates the Ogiso era. How would you make up for this periods.

You expect me to believe that you were not filled with envy from those video clips on Benin artworks. The revelations that the world are daily learning, studying and teaching their children Benin history is just going to quadruple your efforts to ensure Benin and Ife/Yoruba are welded together by all means possible.

I wouldn't be surprised to see another post from you linking earlier Benin historical periods to Ife, such is your obsession with Benin. The problem is how would you now change European, Canadian, Australian, America etc archives of Benin history that doesn't reference Ife. When these people outside Nigeria teaches Benin history, they don't reference Ife, so Ife is missing from Benin world and international history.

All the fabrications here amounts to a complete waste of time, they don't count, they are not recognised by rest of the world that hold Benin as one of the very few Africa civilisations. Your efforts unfortunately only amounts to exercise in futility. It must be heartbreaking.

Fight with the experts who made all the submissions I cited, such as is seen in the first attachment below:

I guess experts are only accurate when their submissions coincide with Benin Kingdom's delusions (such as is seen in some of the YouTube videos)

He is obviously still dazed. You will slowly get over it.

Lastly, thank you very much for that picture of the then Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuwade. It corroborates what all the evidence says, thereby putting Benin Kingdom in its lower place. I have attached it. Thank you, thank you!

What We're Still Awaiting:
(1) Evidence that settlements in Benin date earlier than Ife.
It's almost a year that I've been waiting for this from Benin Nairalanders.

(2)Evidence of iron-smelting on Benin soil dating to earlier than in Yorubaland.
It's been only a few hours since I've been waiting for this. So I kind of understand.

(3) Replies addressing his bungle in the following links:
https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/44#88731083

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/45#88733590

TAO12:
Fight with the experts who made all the submissions I cited such as is seen below:


I guess experts are only accurate when their submissions coincides with Benin delusions (such as is seen in some of the YouTube videos)


He is still dazed.

Whatever your experts have to say doesn't count and are not referenced or cited when the world daily visits museums across the world to marvel at a great Africa civilisation called Benin.

Various world super powers are competing to build the best museums to create special sections for Benin artworks. Benin artworks are daily disabusing and changing the minds of Europeans who initially thought that the Black man was not capable of building a civilisation. I hardly see Ife or your experts being mentioned, all I hear is Benin.

You want all to believe Ife is responsible for Benin greatness , yet there is nothing like Ife civilisation that the world are studying and debating daily.

Everything you have to say ends in Nigeria. You should be contended with your local Ife.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmrdunRXfbw

My experts?? ?? ?? ?? No little boy!

They are THE experts not MY experts, lad. omg!

And they say Ife artworks are the most sophisticated and most valued.

Yes, the imperial west is bent on perpetuating the punishment on Benin kingdom since 1897, regardless of the amount of begging from your elders.

Regardless of the volume of tears your elders shed for their return, and regardless of how much you mock their tears on Nairaland by rejoicing over the punitive seizure of those mere-quantity-2nd/3rd-class-artworks which they beg and cry daily for.

Experts have spoken loudly and clearly again and again on the superior quality of the Ife artworks. Consider the following expert testimonies:

(1) Talking about the Ife artworks, Frank Willett writes:

"Here unquestionably were art works of first importance ... They were so very different from any works of negro art, and so very sophisticated in a European manner that they stood apart from the rest of African sculpture."
Reference:
Frank Willett, "Bronze and Terra-Cotta Sculptures from Ita Yemo, Ife", The South African Archaeological Bulletin, Vol. 14, No. 56 (Dec., 1959), p.135.

(2) In another publication, Frank Willett writes:

"The heads were unlike any known African art, and being in a style of quasi-mensurational naturalism, had an immediate appeal to those trained in the canons of European taste. These heads could be judged without condescension as works of art in their own right; they would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer."
Reference:
Frank Willett, "Ife and Its Archaeology", The Journal of African History, Vol. 1. No. 2 (1960), p.239.

(3) The first European to see the Ife artworks in 1910, Leo Frobenius remarked that they were:

"eloquent of a symmetry, a vitality, a delicacy of form directly reminiscent of ancient Greece."
Reference:
Leo Frobenius, quoted in Ekpo Eyo: Two Thousand Years, p.100.

(4) The American anthropologist, William Bascom reports as follows for the Illustrated London News:
"How on a comparatively obscure corner of this vast and backward continent could an art and a technique have flowered that take their stand beside the best ever evolved by the elaborate civilizations of Europe and Asia?"
Reference:
William Bascom, The Illustrated London News, 1939.

Guess what! All these expert testimonies were made many years (sometimes many, many years) after the world had already seen all that Benin Kingdom had to offer in terms of art.

TAO12:
My experts?? ?? ?? ?? No little boy!

They are THE experts not MY experts, lad. omg!

And they say Ife artworks are the most sophisticated and most valued.

Yes, the imperial west is bent on perpetuating the punishment on Benin kingdom since 1897, regardless of the amount of begging from your elders.

Regardless of the volume of tears your elders shed for their return, and regardless of how much you mock their tears on Nairaland by rejoicing over the punitive seizure of those mere quantity 2nd class which they beg and cry daily for.

Experts have spoken loudly and clearly again and again on the superior quality of the Ife artworks. Consider the following expert testimonies:

(1) Talking about the Ife artworks, Frank Willett writes:

"Here unquestionably were art works of first importance ... They were so very different from any works of negro art, and so very sophisticated in a European manner that they stood apart from the rest of African sculpture."
Reference:
Frank Willett, "Bronze and Terra-Cotta Sculptures from Ita Yemo, Ife", The South African Archaeological Bulletin, Vol. 14, No. 56 (Dec., 1959), p.135.

(2) In another publication, Frank Willett writes:

"The heads were unlike any known African art, and being in a style of quasi-mensurational naturalism, had an immediate appeal to those trained in the canons of European taste. These heads could be judged without condescension as works of art in their own right; they would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer."
Reference:
Frank Willett, Ife and Its Archaeology, The Journal of African History, Vol. 1. No. 2 (1960), p.239.

(3) The first European to see the Ife artworks in 1910, Leo Frobenius remarked that they were:
"eloquent of a symmetry, vitality, a delicacy of form directly reminiscent of ancient Greece."
Reference
Leo Frobenius, quoted in Ekpo Eyo: Two Thousand Years, p.100.

(4) William Bascom



Guess what, all these expert testimonies were made many years (sometimes many, many years) after the world had already seen all that Benin Kingdom has to offer in terms of art.

You can't insults your way out of it. I repeat, the only ancient civilisation that the world know and recognize in this space called Nigeria is Benin. It's Benin that makes racist Europeans know that the black man can think logically.

If you like, copy and paste from now till eternity, Benin will always remain the only recognised ancient civilization in southern Nigeria.

Again having exhausted his lie bank, he resorts to committing the logical fallacy know in argumentation as argumentum ad nauseum among other logical fallacies.

In other words, he has resolved the following: "I would keep repeating the same statement (of course without any evidence) and people will eventually get tired and believe me."

Providing evidence in response to zero evidence from Benin Kingdom was interpreted as insulting him Isn't God wonderful?? ??

Anyways, we're still awaiting his response to address his bungle pointed out here:

TAO12:
Again having exhausted his lie bank, he resorts to committing the logical fallacy know in argumentations as argumentum ad nauseum among other logical fallacies.

Providing evidence in response to zero evidence from Benin Kingdom was interpreted as insulting him Isn't God wonderful?? ??

Anyways, we're still awaiting his response to address his bungle pointed out here:

Why will I copy and paste when people can watch the videos for themselves and see that the only ancient recognised civilisation in southern Nigeria is Benin. Very painful to those that would like to projects their little villages and hamlets.

Take Cover People. Benin Kingdom Liar on the Loose:

No where does any video he attached say anything even remotely close to his lie that Benin Kingdom is the only recognized ancient civilization. I challenge you to mention the timestamps in the respective videos.

On the contrary, what such videos always depict is the exhibition of specific artworks, just as it is done of other superior artworks like the Ife artworks, the Egyptian artworks, etc. Videos of such exhibitions abound on the internet.

He doesn't copy and paste Journal references. He only copies and pastes YouTube links. A truly interesting difference. Hmmm!

Nonsense and Oba Ovoranmwen!


A gentle reminder of your bungle below, though:
https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/44#88731083

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/45#88733590

TAO12:
Take Cover People. Benin Kingdom Liar on the Loose:

No where does any video he attached say anything even remotely close to his lie that Benin Kingdom is the only recognized ancient civilization. I challenge you to mention the timestamps in the respective videos.

On the contrary, what such videos always depict is exhibition of specific artworks, just as it is done of other superior artworks like the Ife artworks, the Egyptian artworks, etc. Videos of such exhibitions abound on the internet.

He doesn't copy and paste Journal references. He only copies and pastes YouTube links. A truly interesting difference. Hmmm!

Nonsense and Oba Ovoranmwen!


A gentle reminder of your bungle below, though:
https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/44#88731083

https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/45#88733590

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvaiC_djW8o

His desperation and, more importantly, his disconnection from the actual discourse at hand, is sufficient evidence that he is crying somewhere at the moment.

Very satisfying!!!

Anyways, I am more than happy to move on to the new topic you've just tried to save face with, only on the condition that you publicly accept defeat on the current discourse.

Every Benin delusion is gradually being dispelled one after the other.

I will gladly move on to the next one about Lagos once you meet this condition.

I am so glad this is happening PUBLICLY

davidnazee:


You are indeed a fool. U argue like a child. Who ever said anything about a hill being around or not around. Does Oke Ora mean hill or it’s nam of a place?
Please allow a more mature moneywoman talk on behalf of oduduwa.. ur argument sinks Ife further down into darkness.

Odùduwà is not an Arab man, but according to my findings. There are aborigines living in that land called mecca before the Arab came to pursue or wage war on them. This cause them to desert their land to find a new part. This is common things that happened those days. That is most reason for cross migration.

Then history said Lamurudun who is the father of ODÙDUWÀ and leader of his tribe migrate to a place now called ILẸ̀ IFE. According to my findings on his way coming from Middle East, some of his people who are tired settle in place like Nupe, Borgu and they are Ibariba people.

There have always been a kind of ethnic relationship between tapa and Yoruba. So Lamurudun died on the way, could not reach ILẸ̀ IFE with his people, but his son ODÙDUWÀ took his people to the promise land which is today called ILẸ̀ IFE. The Ancestry home of all Ọmọ Oodua.

So, the history even said that he met some settler in Ìfẹ́ and he introduced the kingship and kingdom administration which Yoruba are known for till today.

Odùduwà gave birth to Okanbi. And it is history that the birth of Oranmiyan came through the mate of ODÙDUWÀ and his son Okanbi with same woman.

That is why it is believe that Oranmiyan is special and powerful, he left ilé ifẹ on special invitations of people of ILẸ̀ IBINU from Ogiso by asking Île ife to send his Prince to help structure the kingship and kingdom of Ado (Edo) . So Oranmiyan went to ilé Ado (Edo) but on getting, he found out that they were aggressive, some of the local chief disagree with the way he ruled them. Spying on him everywhere. He created the structure of kingship and became the first Ọba of Benin. He married one their chief daughter who gave birth to Eweka.

The rebellion within the ADO (EDO) people was too much, so Oranmiyan left everything to go back to ifẹ. So after some time the Ogiso came to beg for him to come back, he said he will not go back to ILẸ̀ IBINU (now known as ILẸ̀ BENIN) instead he asked they should crowned his SON (EWEKA) who is legit direct descendant of ODÙDUWÀ.

Cc
Metaphysical
TAO11
gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun

Sewgon79:


Odùduwà is not an Arab man, but according to my findings. There are aborigines living in that land called mecca before the Arab came to pursue or wage war on them. This cause them to desert their land to find a new part. This is common things that happened those days. That is most reason for cross migration.

Then history said Lamurudun who is the father of ODÙDUWÀ and leader of his tribe migrate to a place now called ILẸ̀ IFE. According to my findings on his way coming from Middle East, some of his people who are tired settle in place like Nupe, Borgu and they are Ibariba people.

There have always been a kind of ethnic relationship between tapa and Yoruba. So Lamurudun died on the way, could not reach ILẸ̀ IFE with his people, but his son ODÙDUWÀ took his people to the promise land which is today called ILẸ̀ IFE. The Ancestry home of all Ọmọ Oodua.

So, the history even said that he met some settler in Ìfẹ́ and he introduced the kingship and kingdom administration which Yoruba are known for till today.

Odùduwà gave birth to Okanbi. And it is history that the birth of Oranmiyan came through the mate of ODÙDUWÀ and his son Okanbi with same woman.

That is why it is believe that Oranmiyan is special and powerful, he left ilé ifẹ on special invitations of people of ILẸ̀ IBINU from Ogiso by asking Île ife to send his Prince to help structure the kingship and kingdom of Ado (Edo) . So Oranmiyan went to ilé Ado (Edo) but on getting, he found out that they were aggressive, some of the local chief disagree with the way he ruled them. Spying on him everywhere. He created the structure of kingship and became the first Ọba of Benin. He married one their chief daughter who gave birth to Eweka.

The rebellion within the ADO (EDO) people was too much, so Oranmiyan left everything to go back to ifẹ. So after some time the Ogiso came to beg for him to come back, he said he will not go back to ILẸ̀ IBINU (now known as ILẸ̀ BENIN) instead he asked they should crowned his SON (EWEKA) who is legit direct descendant of ODÙDUWÀ.

Cc
Metaphysical
TAO11
gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun

A very quick question bro:

What's your historical source for this Lamurudun story??

Sewgon79:


Odùduwà is not an Arab man, but according to my findings. There are aborigines living in that land called mecca before the Arab came to pursue or wage war on them. This cause them to desert their land to find a new part. This is common things that happened those days. That is most reason for cross migration.

Then history said Lamurudun who is the father of ODÙDUWÀ and leader of his tribe migrate to a place now called ILẸ̀ IFE. According to my findings on his way coming from Middle East, some of his people who are tired settle in place like Nupe, Borgu and they are Ibariba people.

There have always been a kind of ethnic relationship between tapa and Yoruba. So Lamurudun died on the way, could not reach ILẸ̀ IFE with his people, but his son ODÙDUWÀ took his people to the promise land which is today called ILẸ̀ IFE. The Ancestry home of all Ọmọ Oodua.

So, the history even said that he met some settler in Ìfẹ́ and he introduced the kingship and kingdom administration which Yoruba are known for till today.

Odùduwà gave birth to Okanbi. And it is history that the birth of Oranmiyan came through the mate of ODÙDUWÀ and his son Okanbi with same woman.

That is why it is believe that Oranmiyan is special and powerful, he left ilé ifẹ on special invitations of people of ILẸ̀ IBINU from Ogiso by asking Île ife to send his Prince to help structure the kingship and kingdom of Ado (Edo) . So Oranmiyan went to ilé Ado (Edo) but on getting, he found out that they were aggressive, some of the local chief disagree with the way he ruled them. Spying on him everywhere. He created the structure of kingship and became the first Ọba of Benin. He married one their chief daughter who gave birth to Eweka.

The rebellion within the ADO (EDO) people was too much, so Oranmiyan left everything to go back to ifẹ. So after some time the Ogiso came to beg for him to come back, he said he will not go back to ILẸ̀ IBINU (now known as ILẸ̀ BENIN) instead he asked they should crowned his SON (EWEKA) who is legit direct descendant of ODÙDUWÀ.

Cc
Metaphysical
TAO11
gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun

Odùduwà gave birth to Okanbi. And it is history that the birth of Oranmiyan came through the mate of ODÙDUWÀ and his son Okanbi with same woman.

Wow, very interesting, we all read that Oduduwa is not indigenous to Ife.

Are you also saying Oduduwa and his son Akanbi slept with one woman to produce Oranmiyan.

Oduduwa is from mecca

gregyboy:
Oduduwa is from mecca

And Ogiso Igodo dived without a parachute from the sky and landed at Benin City round-about??

TAO11:


And Ogiso Igodo is from the sky!!

Yea as you wish

gregyboy:


Yea as you wish

I won't say a word!

TerraCotta, I apologize but I will have to delay my detailed response to your (very interesting) posts a little longer than I had anticipated, since something came up (in my personal life) that I need to work on that is taking me longer than expected. I found the quote you provided from Ward-Price's book about Christianity in Ife especially interesting, since it corresponds closely with something I had come across years ago in a book on Ife's past by M.A. Fabunmi. I should be able to post a response by Sunday.

TAO11, I saw that in this thread, and in some other threads that were recently started on this forum, you repeatedly referenced the following statement by Dmitri Bondarenko from one of his publications:

"Historically, ethnographic sources and European writings of the early and mid-sixteenth century (based on relations from Benin of the late fifteenth century) and of the early seventeenth century, also testify to the Second Benin Dynasty's links with Ife."

However, this statement could be viewed as misleading. The writings "of the early and mid-sixteenth century" and "of the early seventeenth century" that he is referring to are actually the ones already analyzed by Ryder and Thornton with regard to the 'Ogane'/'Hooguanee' ruler. Bondarenko is not referring to any other documents (and in fact no other documents exist besides those ones which even touch on the Ogane/Hooguanee ruler) from that time period. Those documents, all of which I have read, do not mention Ife, and apart from the issue of direction in those documents, one of these documents, without actually mentioning direction, situates the location of the 'Ogane' ruler with respect to Benin in such a way that that ruler's kingdom would not correspond to Ife. There is a detail in one of those documents that Bondarenko misses, but that Thornton apparently did not, which makes the identification of that kingdom as Ife problematic. Bondarenko is essentially engaging in circular reasoning here - by assuming that the 'Ogane' documents of the early and mid-sixteenth century and of the early seventeenth century do in fact refer to Ife (when they do not mention Ife and the direction and relative positioning of kingdoms which they give do not align well with an identification with Ife) in order to use them as evidence to support the idea that they are evidence of the particular Ife-Benin connection he discusses in the article. To be clear, it is not that they could not refer to Ife - although some details given in at least one of them make it questionable that they actually do - but that it would not be a reasonable argument to use such documents to prove a particular connection, since one would be assuming what one intends to prove. I will expound on this at greater length in my replies on Sunday as well as provide the original sources (and translations) of the documents he is referring to.