LewsTherin:
I also struggle to understand how you think the relationship between Christ and a Christian is a master-slave relationship and expect the same in a husband-wife relationship.

The relationship between Jesus Christ and His followers is most definitely a Master-Servant relationship. There is absolutely no question about that. What is in question is the belief that a marriage relationship should mirror the relationship that is between Jesus Christ and His followers.
Here is what Jesus Christ says about serving two masters.

Matthew 6 vs 24 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24. “You cannot serve two masters at the same time. You will hate one and love the other, or you will be loyal to one and not care about the other. You cannot serve God and Money[d] at the same time.

Since the mere thought that a husband-wife relationship should mirror the relationship between Jesus Christ and His followers stands in disagreement with Jesus Christ's own commandment not to worship two masters, what does that then tell you of that idea, as far as you as a Christian is concerned?

NB: I know that some so-called "men of God" pretend verse suggests that the only two masters man cannot serve are God and money. But I am certain you know that is wrong because God hates Idolatry(the worship of ANY other Master besides Himself).

Kobojunkie:
The relationship between Jesus Christ and His followers is most definitely a Master-Servant relationship. There is absolutely no question about that. What is in question is the belief that a marriage relationship should mirror the relationship that is between Jesus Christ and His followers.
Here is what Jesus Christ says about serving two masters.

Since the mere thought that a husband-wife relationship should mirror the relationship between Jesus Christ and His followers stands in disagreement with Jesus Christ's own commandment not to worship two masters, what does that then tell you of that idea, as far as you as a Christian is concerned?

NB: I know that some so-called "men of God" pretend verse suggests that the only two masters man cannot serve are God and money. But I am certain you know that is wrong because God hates Idolatry(the worship of ANY other Master besides Himself).

And the father-son relationship both with Jesus and with God the Father? John 14? (Seeing as you are insinuating the scriptures should end at the Gospels)

LewsTherin:
And the father-son relationship both with Jesus and with God the Father? John 14? (Seeing as you are insinuating the scriptures should end at the Gospels)

You know, during the time of the disciples, the only scripture that existed for them was no scripture at all.
The disciples were not educated men so they did not even have access to the book of the laws of Moses/the prophets. They had nothing to go by except that which they had learned from their days attending meetings at the synagogues(ended after Jesus came into their lives), Jesus's teachings, and the Spirit of God living on the inside of them to remind and teach them all truths.

We have the luxury today of having scripture available to us, thanks to God, but the most important thing remains the teachings of Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Spirit of God. Read all scripture, but know that in the end, what matters is Jesus Christ and Christ alone! Scripture is a compendium of writings over time from various writers, but scripture is not the word of God itself. No, we know the word of God is not a what but a who, and that is Jesus Christ Himself. So, if your understanding of what read does not line up with what Jesus Christ said, obviously the word of Christ should prevail over such knowledge, why? Because Jesus Christ is the WORD OF GOD, that we need.

As far as the Father-Son relationship, that is not the relationship between Jesus Christ and His followers. We are not sons of Jesus Christ - not at all. We are the children of God and God is not the head over the church that is us, Jesus is. Jesus is the head and we are the body of His church - He is the master and we are the slaves.

Boss13:
Nice write up. However, you forget the most important thing. The wife's obligation. Which is a duty to her husband. A wife exist to serve the husband and that is according to your bible.

I have so many threads on wives.

This thread is to husbands.

LewsTherin:


Well, the lockdown is just beginning so you have oodles of time on your hands!

My opinion? Well I am a Christian and I do take my faith seriously so I agree with it.

T D Jakes said while woves are expected to submit to their husbands, husbands are expected, like Christ, to sacrifice themselves for their wives.

A husband's leadership of his family is not a master-slave relationship that many people like describing it as.
My analogy for the headship of a husband is of a ship's captain.

There cannot be 2 captains on the same boat. That boat will go nowhere.
The destination of a ship is not always the decision of the captain but it is the responsibility of the captain to get that boat to the destination agreed on.
If any crew member or members choose to disregard the instructions of the captain on the operations of the ship, chaos results. The ship becomes a mess. The boat may never reach its destination. Heck there are many more chances for the ship to hit an iceberg and sink.
If the captain fails to take into consideration the views of his crew, failures mount up and mutiny may be the result to the detriment of all on board. Both captain and crew.

And finally and most importantly, the captain always goes down with his ship.

How did I not respond to this?

Gbam!

Kobojunkie:

Did Jesus Christ ever exclude women from living exactly as He did? If No, should the @OP be making comparisons to men alone?

This thread is treating a very very streamlined scope: Comparing Christian husbands to Christ or telling them what is expected of them.

Kobojunkie:

Actually a husband, and a wife can both be and should be perfect for Jesus Christ commands this of all His followers (no gender exceptions made).
You simply need to have a better understanding of what Jesus Christ meant when He gave the commandment and it can be found within the provided context.


Jesus Christ gave you a better illustration of the relationship between His Church and Himself in His many parables. Why not consult those instead since they do not feed into this inane idea that one gender is somehow held higher (in a marriage relationship) in Christ's Church than the other, an assumption that goes completely counter to Jesus Christ's teachings?

Where have I alluded that one gender is held higher than the other?

This thread has a very narrow scope: The Christian Husband like Christ.

When you open a thread on the Christian like Christ, tag me.

bukatyne:
This thread is treating a very very streamlined scope: Comparing Christian husbands to Christ or telling them what is expected of them.

You do not compare husbands to Christ though, because the very idea that you can, runs counter to what Jesus Christ Himself taught His followers.

Kobojunkie:
The relationship between Jesus Christ and His followers is most definitely a Master-Servant relationship. There is absolutely no question about that. What is in question is the belief that a marriage relationship should mirror the relationship that is between Jesus Christ and His followers.
Here is what Jesus Christ says about serving two masters.

Since the mere thought that a husband-wife relationship should mirror the relationship between Jesus Christ and His followers stands in disagreement with Jesus Christ's own commandment not to worship two masters, what does that then tell you of that idea, as far as you as a Christian is concerned?

NB: I know that some so-called "men of God" pretend verse suggests that the only two masters man cannot serve are God and money. But I am certain you know that is wrong because God hates Idolatry(the worship of ANY other Master besides Himself).

@Slave-Master relationship:

Jesus was a servant leader and said it severally.

He never treated his followers as slaves. Infact, he called them friends at at stage.

bukatyne:
Where have I alluded that one gender is held higher than the other?
This thread has a very narrow scope: The Christian Husband like Christ. When you open a thread on the Christian like Christ, tag me.

The relationship between Jesus Christ and His followers is a Master-slave type relationship. By pretending husbands are like Christ to their wives, what you suggest is that husbands are like masters to their wives and that runs counter to what Jesus Christ Himself taught His followers.

Every doctrine must be weighed against what Jesus Christ taught and all found not to conform should be thrown out, do not agree with this?

Kobojunkie:

Did Jesus Christ ever exclude women from living exactly as He did? If No, should the @OP be making comparisons to men alone?

Well,there are topics addressing men alone and some women alone.
I guess Op chooses to address men now.

bukatyne:
@Slave-Master relationship:
Jesus was a servant leader and said it severally. He never treated his followers as slaves. Infact, he called them friends at at stage.

Sure, He was a servant leader but a master nonetheless, and His followers, His slaves-- He commands, we obey!

thorpido:
Well,there are topics addressing men alone and some women alone.
I guess Op chooses to address men now.

This not about addressing men and women separately. As far as followers of Jesus Christ are concerned, there is no gender divide... all of His followers, irrespective of gender and marital status, have one and one master alone.

Marriage between two followers of Jesus Christ is meant to be modelled exactly as Christ prescribed, not after what the world's traditions and ways of men are, which is what we see done more, supposedly in the name of Christ. But we all know that Christ would never ask us to go against His very teaching no matter what.

Kobojunkie:

The relationship between Jesus Christ and His followers is a Master-slave type relationship. By pretending husbands are like Christ to their wives, what you suggest is that husbands are like masters to their wives and that runs counter to what Jesus Christ Himself taught His followers.

Every doctrine must be weighed against what Jesus Christ taught and all found not to conform should be thrown out, do not agree with this?

That's not entirely true.In John 15:15,Jesus said,I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

They started out as 'servants' but after growing with him,He told them they were no longer servants but friends.
We as Christians too are not servants of God but sons and daughters.

thorpido:
That's not entirely true.In John 15:15,Jesus said,I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

Sure, the closer we grow in Christ, the more we start to see Him for the friend He also is. But even at that, He is still our master and we are still His servants no matter what. When Jesus called them friends, you know what He never did? He never told them they could now stop obeying His commandments. No! For you see, your obedience to His commandments helps maintain that relationship you have forged with Him.

John, the apostle, put it this way, if you love Him(Jesus Christ) and you do not obey Him, you are a liar, and the truth(Jesus Christ) is not in you. We are never going to be heads of His Church alongside Him, no. We will always serve the Head... Hence we will always be servants of Christ, even as we grow to become friends of Christ. A master can indeed be friends with his servants, nevertheless that Master-slave relationship... that line continues to exist.

thorpido:
They started out as 'servants' but after growing with him,He told them they were no longer servants but friends.
We as Christians to are not servants of God but sons and daughters.

Sure, we are children of God but we are also servants of God because the Father expects us to obey Him in all we do. He instructs us and we carry out His every command... that is how it is designed. In the book of John chapters 14 and 15, we are made to see that as children of God we are expected to submit completely to be guided, led, and taught by God Himself through His Spirit (the seal of the New Covenant) to do what is of God. You can read Paul's summation on this in Romans 8.

You forgot to add that he is a misogynist, headstrong, his word is all in all(no arguments), he's never home always jumping from town to town from the age of 12, no meaningful means of livelihood, and he uses people for his own purpose to propagate his agenda.
He subjected himself to constituted authority-Pilate only once and was killed in the process. Except I have a sadomasochistic fetish and men with good oratorical skills, Jesus-like men is a no go area.

What women need for marriage is a man not a god or men with godlike principles.

TheArchangel:
You forgot to add that he is a misogynist, headstrong, his word is all in all(no arguments), he's never home always jumping from town to town from the age of 12, no meaningful means of livelihood, and he uses people for his own purpose to propagate his agenda.
He subjected himself to constituted authority-Pilate only once and was killed in the process. Except I have a sadomasochistic fetish and men with good oratorical skills, Jesus-like men is a no go area.

What women need for marriage is a man not a god or men with godlike principles.

There was a caveat in the opening post.

If you a NOT a Christian, the thread would not make sense to you.

It would have made sense if you avoided the thread than post nonsense here.

bukatyne:


There was a caveat in the opening post.

If you a NOT a Christian, the thread would not make sense to you.

It would have made sense if you avoided the thread than post nonsense here.

bukatyne:
Disclaimer: This thread is based on Christian principles.

Happy Quarantine everyone

Hope those staying at home are not bored?

Now to the gist of the thread:

This thread is basically juxtaposing a Christian Husband with Jesus Christ. The idea dropped from the threads about disadvantages of no-sex courtship and 'I don't want to re-incarnate as a Nigerian woman'. Some other thoughts dropped while listening to 'In Christ Alone' by Travis Cottrel although there are several versions.

The Bible compares the marriage between Christ and the Church (all believers) with a husband and wife. Ephesians 5: 31 - 32. Full reading Eph 5:21-33
31 As the Scriptures say, “A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.”[c]
32 This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one.

Hence my comparing a husband to Jesus Christ. Now, I know a husband is human so cannot be perfect and is working towards perfection. Also, since it is an illustration of Christ's relationship with the Church, it would not completely be same. For instance, wives do not pray in their husband's name nor can the husband save his wife.

Please note that Christians, when I talk imperfection, we are not talking adultery or abuse here. I will be picking some of Christ's characteristics that a Christian husband should emulate:

1. His love: The Bible is filled with stories and instances of God's love John 3:16. The new testament tells us of the love of Christ who left His glory in heaven, came in form of man to save mankind he created. Eph 3:17-19. John 15:9-10. He also corrects us to be the best version of ourselves in love.1 Cor 13:1-13 is also a fantastic read.

2. His goodness, mercy and compassion: Everywhere Jesus went, He was know for doing good. His presence signaled relief, lifting of burdens, forgiveness of sins, restoration, redemption etc. etc. Acts 10:38; Matthew 14:14; Matthew 9:36. His Mercy is seen in the story of the adulterous woman; John 8:1-11. He had mercy on the thief beside Him.

3. His thoughtfulness: His prayer in the whole John 17 for His disciples and Christians worldwide; Him sending us the Holy Spirit who functions as teacher, encourager, comforter and empowerer. Him feeding the multitude who came to listen on several occasions. Even at the cross, while dying and facing separation from His Heavenly father, He still remembered to commit His earthly mother into a disciples' hands: John 19:26-27

4. His forgiveness: In addition to His love, the Bible tells us about Jesus Christ forgiving our sins Colossians 2:14; John 1:12; 1st John 1:8

5. His leadership: He was a servant-leader/Shepherd who laid down His life for His sheep. We are called Christians because we follow his example back to back. As a leader, He did not lord it over us, rather doing everything for our benefit. John 13:12-17; Matthew 20:22-28; Philippians 2:3; 1st Pet 5:1-4 etc.

6. His sacrifice: Philippians 2: 5-11 summarizes His ultimate sacrifice. He accepted to be separated from God the Father for a while to die for us despite the cost Matthew 26:39. During His crucifixion, He carried the sins of the world as no human/animal sacrifice can fully pay for our sins hence separated (forsaken) by God who is Holy and cannot behold sin Luke 15:34; Isaiah 59:1-2; 1st Peter 2: 21-24; 1st John 2:2. Why did He risk all that? Because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. Hebrews 9:22.

7. His ownership & authority: Everywhere in the Bible we are reminded that we are the possession of Christ bought by His precious blood; the highest bride price anyone has paid for a bride. Yet the sound of ownership by Christ gives us peace, joy, love, hope, eternal assurance of glory etc. Through that ownership, we are joint heirs with Him, assured of Heaven, assured of seeing God Eph 1: 1-14. He gave us the Holy Spirit to identify us, he is not ashamed of us. Everywhere the authority of Christ is mentioned, it is for the benefit of we Christians. At no point did Christ ever use the fact that He is the head or 'paid bride-price' to 'bully' or 'disrespect' the Church. Infact, the hope and confidence of Christians is based on the fact that Christ is creator John 1:1-5 and Lord of everything for our benefit. Eph 1:22-23. Every title He has/gave himself was for our benefit: Bread of life, Prince of Peace, the Resurrection and life, the Living Water etc.

8. His intimacy: He tells us in John 15:1-5 that He is the vine and we are branches and He tells us to abide in him as He abides in us. He also shared everything He knew about God the Father John 15: 14-15. We do not know the date of His second coming ONLY because He did not know as man Mark 13:32, He however told us several signs Matthew 24 and warned us to keeping watching till then. As Christians, we never doubt our place in Jesus or His love/intentions for us because He tells us all the time. The whole of Romans 8. John chapters 14 through 17 is a very good read.

9. His empowerment: Jesus Christ wants us to do greater things than He he did and sent us the Holy Spirit to achieve that. John 14:12. For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline. 2nd Timothy 1:7; He empowers to do everything (godly) Philippians 4:13

10. His emotions: He was in tune with His emotions and allowed them flow. He cried when Lazarus died and saw how people were sad even though He could and would raise Him up . John 11:33-44; Because Jerusalem rejected salvation Luke 13:34; When He prayed to God for deliverance from death before His time Hebrews 5:7. He expressed deep anger when the temple people started buying and selling Matthew 21:12-13. He has felt the same thing we have so can empathize with us. Hebrews 4:14-16

11. His provision: He gave us salvation through His blood, riches through His poverty 2nd Cor 8:9; Power and Comfort through the Holy Spirit Acts 1:4,7-8; will supply all that we need according to his riches in glory Philippians 4:19 etc.


12. His prayerfulness: He was a man of prayer who prayed without ceasing Luke 18:1, led his disciples in prayer, taught them how to pray, prayed for them and all believers after them John 17. He always prayed before undertaking a project and always grateful to God.

I love this, thank you.

shestrong:

I love this, thank you.

You are welcome dear.

I am happy you picked something from it.

This was in a time when women go into marriage as virgins which is the greatest gift a wife can give her husband
moreover, that portion of the Bible also says wives should submit themselves unto their husbands as unto the Lord (God), can you tell women to submit themselves to their husbands like they will do to God?

bukatyne:


There was a caveat in the opening post.

If you a NOT a Christian, the thread would not make sense to you.

It would have made sense if you avoided the thread than post nonsense here.

The thread is not even for Jesus Christ followers either because Christ does not approve of your list.

danielistics:
This was in a time when women go into marriage as virgins which is the greatest gift a wife can give her husband
moreover, that portion of the Bible also says wives should submit themselves unto their husbands as unto the Lord (God), can you tell women to submit themselves to their husbands like they will do to God?

There was never a time in history when it was correct to tell women to SUBMIT to their husbands as they submit to Christ. Jesus Christ never taught them to do that. So it has nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:


There was never a time in history when it was correct to tell women to SUBMIT to their husbands as they submit to Christ. Jesus Christ never taught them to do that. So it has nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 5: 22 & 24

danielistics:


Ephesians 5: 22 & 24

Compare the content of the letter written by an apostle to what Jesus Christ Himself commanded of you in Matthew 6 vs 24.

danielistics:


Ephesians 5: 22 & 24

Lol you’re making her argument for her. That’s a verse written by a man. Spirituality and the true ways of Christ have been corrupted by man AKA religion. The men of those times manipulated the ways and teachings of Christ to suit their agenda.

Everybody just picking and choosing, manipulating words and actions to suit their ultimate agenda.

TheArchangel:
You forgot to add that he is a misogynist, headstrong, his word is all in all(no arguments), he's never home always jumping from town to town from the age of 12, no meaningful means of livelihood, and he uses people for his own purpose to propagate his agenda.
He subjected himself to constituted authority-Pilate only once and was killed in the process. Except I have a sadomasochistic fetish and men with good oratorical skills, Jesus-like men is a no go area.

What women need for marriage is a man not a god or men with godlike principles.

Precisely!
Jesus Christ never gave any of His followers, male or female, permission to share His glory, not one!