Sweetnecta:

@The Poser; It is by the Grace of God we see every moment. And every moment is a New Year, a private celebration, thanking God therefore for preserving our lives. Some will see the day time but will expire before it is night time, or during the night.

Others will see the night and will expire before the day breaks, or still during that day without the darkness of night reaching them alive, again.

We should live our lives as if we shall never die, hence not be bugged down with the inevitable; death that knocks at our doors at least many times a day.

We should live our lives as if we shall not see the next moment, hence minding our deeds, becoming God Conscious and believing in Him in the way He has ordered.

There is no god save Almighty Creator God Lord Who is One, without partner in His Authority.

Very true.

5solas:

Happy New Year, Image.
The gospel is of His Grace, not of the works of man. Let's keep preaching that. How else can one answer the fourth part of the OP's post?

And did you notice Toba's submission?

I did. . . . I see no flaw in his reply.

Sweetnecta:

@The Poser: The God is Allah.

Allah is The God.

Well said.

Ileke-IdI:

Very true.

I did. . . . I see no flaw in his reply.

Neither do I. It is completely endorsed, as against bringing man's acts into the issue.

5solas:

To tell you the truth, no one dies before their times. There is a set time for everyone.

Well, this is a hard saying !

Jesus could have been killed before time, but He escaped. The Israelites that left egypt were supposed to get to canaan. It was God's plan for them, but they frustrated it. One can die before 'his time', believer or unbeliever. And on the other hand, if you know your time like king Hezekiah in scriptures, you may extend it.

Jenwitemi:

Or his time may just have expired. His time was up, just like any other dead person. I can assure you that "believers" drop dead all the time, just like every other dead "unbelievers".

You certainly were not following, now you'll come up with "i just don't get it"s. I'm saying it's possible for someone to do something before the time. One may be born before his time, or die earlier. Not everything in life is done in due time. Some are early, some are late, some are right on time, believer or unbeliever. And like 5solas quoted, the saints/believers exit from earth are precious to God, it's a time of joining, a success story.

Ileke-IdI:

Very true.

I did. . . . I see no flaw in his reply.

Now let me ask u. Ileke idi of Nairaland got to see 2011 just like toba and everyone else. By whose grace did she see the new year? man or by a supernatural entity?

toba:

Now let me ask u. Ileke idi of Nairaland got to see 2011 just like toba and everyone else. By whose grace did she see the new year? man or by a supernatural entity?

Who brought up this old fray between Image and 5Solas?

Image123:

Jesus could have been killed before time, but He escaped. The Israelites that left egypt were supposed to get to canaan. It was God's plan for them, but they frustrated it.

John7:30
Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come.
John8: 20
These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.


Image, do you still maintain in the light of the verses above , that Jesus could have been killed before His time?

Image123:

One can die before 'his time', believer or unbeliever

So untrue. Peter was told what death he would go through to glorify God. It could not have been otherwise (John 21:19).

Image123:

. And on the other hand, if you know your time like king Hezekiah in scriptures, you may extend it.

So false. If God had not decided in eternity to grant Hezekiah fifteen more years , He would not have done so in time.Nothing can happen which God did not know in advance. I am now talking of His foreknowledge, a big blow to the ‘freewill’ of men

I did not get to see the new year by Gods GRACE Allah GRACE or even dis GRACE the only reason am,here is,because man must wack and as long as man continue to wack man will survive. The day man stop wacking is,the day you die. man must sack.

Okay 5solas, welcome back.

John7:30  
Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come.
John8: 20
These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.


Image, do you still maintain in the light of the verses above , that Jesus could have been killed before His time?

The above verses do not say a thing different from what i've said. Please, we should search the scriptures, they are complete and available to us. The 4 gospels complement one another and show us the full picture. If we just take some few verses, there's the danger of not getting the complete message. Take a look at the passages below and compare to what i've said.
John 10:39  Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
John 10:40  And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.

John 8:59  Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Matthew 12:14  Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Mat 12:15  But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Mat 12:16  And charged them that they should not make him known:

Wisdom is profitable to direct. Even from the beginning of Christ's ministry, He never lived in recklessness. He knew better than to tempt God.
Matthew 4:6  And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7  Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
he knew God's plan and purpose and sought to do it/fulfil it. Even when the time came, He still could have escaped. His will wanted Him to escape, Judas was slack, the false witnesses were not agreed, Pilate almost changed it, even the people who came to arrest Him were falling helter skelter. but thank God He prayed at Gethsamane, and God answered His prayers as usual. We too can pray and change things.

Peter was told what death he would go through to glorify God. It could not have been otherwise (John 21:19).

I'll quote myself again below.
"Jesus could have been killed before time, but He escaped. The Israelites that left egypt were supposed to get to canaan. It was God's plan for them, but they frustrated it."
Do you know that God's plan for Israel was the promised land, and not death in the wilderness? It is possible for we humans to actually make God's Word of no effect. Jesus Himself said that the pharisees did that countless times. I continue to say it, God did not make us as zombies but as 'in His image'. We have a lot of capacity(more than we realise), that's what makes satan so incensed. There is no blow to man's freewill. It is what God Himself made, and it's all over scriptues from the 1st chapter to the last chapter, literally.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever WILL, let him take the water of life freely.

Image123:


But don't try sleeping across the third mainland bridge lagos sha, that grace will deny you sharp sharp.lol. We're not God's zombies but partners together with Him.

In my insistence that things happen as foreknown by God, I must refer to this post of yours.
When I said it was absolutely by God's grace I saw 2011, did I in anyway infer I tried to take my life and couldn't?

All things happen as God foreknew before the foundation of the world. And we as believers can believe this without resorting to fatalism. We can believe God is in charge of every aspect of life and still trust Him to help us be the best we can.

Luke 2:25 ¶ And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,,

The verses above show that foreknowledge or predestination do not necessarily carry fatality with them.Note that Simeon could not have died without seeing Christ and note also that this knowledge did not make him tempt the Lord by being suicidal.

Image123:

Okay 5solas, welcome back.
The above verses do not say a thing different from what i've said. Please, we should search the scriptures, they are complete and available to us. The 4 gospels complement one another and show us the full picture. If we just take some few verses, there's the danger of not getting the complete message. Take a look at the passages below and compare to what i've said.
John 10:39  Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
John 10:40  And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.

John 8:59  Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Matthew 12:14  Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Mat 12:15  But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Mat 12:16  And charged them that they should not make him known:

Wisdom is profitable to direct. Even from the beginning of Christ's ministry, He never lived in recklessness. He knew better than to tempt God.
Matthew 4:6  And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7  Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
he knew God's plan and purpose and sought to do it/fulfil it. Even when the time came, He still could have escaped. His will wanted Him to escape, Judas was slack, the false witnesses were not agreed, Pilate almost changed it, even the people who came to arrest Him were falling helter skelter. but thank God He prayed at Gethsamane, and God answered His prayers as usual. We too can pray and change things.I'll quote myself again below.
"Jesus could have been killed before time, but He escaped. The Israelites that left egypt were supposed to get to canaan. It was God's plan for them, but they frustrated it."
Do you know that God's plan for Israel was the promised land, and not death in the wilderness? It is possible for we humans to actually make God's Word of no effect. Jesus Himself said that the pharisees did that countless times. I continue to say it, God did not make us as zombies but as 'in His image'. We have a lot of capacity(more than we realise), that's what makes satan so incensed. There is no blow to man's freewill. It is what God Himself made, and it's all over scriptues from the 1st chapter to the last chapter, literally.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever WILL, let him take the water of life freely.

Image, you have to realise that Christ could not have died other than He did ,for the simple reason that all the particulars of His death (time, place, manner) were foreknown, predestined and foretold by His father and if any of these had happened otherwise, then would God have been stripped of His foreknowledge, power to decree, foretell and necessarily of every of His attributes and hence cease to be God.

Image123:

]
Wisdom is profitable to direct. Even from the beginning of Christ's ministry, He never lived in recklessness. He knew better than to tempt God.
Matthew 4:6  And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7  Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
he knew God's plan and purpose and sought to do it/fulfil it. Even when the time came, He still could have escaped. His will wanted Him to escape, Judas was slack, the false witnesses were not agreed, Pilate almost changed it, even the people who came to arrest Him were falling helter skelter. but thank God He prayed at Gethsamane, and God answered His prayers as usual. We too can pray and change things.I'll quote myself again below.
"Jesus could have been killed before time, but He escaped. The Israelites that left egypt were supposed to get to canaan. It was God's plan for them, but they frustrated it."
Do you know that God's plan for Israel was the promised land, and not death in the wilderness? It is possible for we humans to actually make God's Word of no effect. Jesus Himself said that the pharisees did that countless times. I continue to say it, God did not make us as zombies but as 'in His image'. We have a lot of capacity(more than we realise), that's what makes satan so incensed. There is no blow to man's freewill. It is what God Himself made, and it's all over scriptues from the 1st chapter to the last chapter, literally.

Concerning God’s plan/will, I think the concept of God’s revealed and secret will will help throw some light on your submission above.God’s revealed will is His will as you have stated above. It is His will as revealed in scripture and prescribed to us and this we can and often defy.His secret will however is unknown to us and not prescribed to us. We cannot frustrate it. You  can read more about this by clicking this link : http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/wills_sproul.html.

manmustwac:

I did not get to see the new year by Gods GRACE Allah GRACE or even dis GRACE the only reason am,here is[b],because man must wack and as long as man continue to wack man will survive. The day man stop wacking is,the day you die[/b]. man must sack.

Dude, who told u this lie? havent u seen pple that went on hunger strike without dying?

@5solas

In my insistence that things happen as foreknown by God, I must refer to this post of yours.
When I said it was absolutely by God's grace I saw 2011, did I in anyway infer I tried to take my life and couldn't?

All things happen as God foreknew before the foundation of the world. And we as believers can believe this without resorting to fatalism. We can believe God is in charge of every aspect of life and still trust Him to help us be the best we can.

I do believe in foreknowledge, but knowledge and grace do not mean the same thing, do they? The OP is on GRACE, not knowledge. You bring in knowledge into the discuss and have always sounded fatalistic from my knowledge of you. So sorry if i'm wrong sha.

Note that Simeon could not have died without seeing Christ and note also that this knowledge did not make him tempt the Lord by being suicidal.

Says who @the bolded? I didn't say that the knowledge of God's will/plan should make one tempt God. What i've said is that if one tempts God, God's will/plan can be changed inspite of the knowledge. A positive example for you then, God said Nineveh was going to be destroyed. They repented and things were changed. You can't say "Note that Nineveh must be destroyed in 40days because the Holy Spirit revealed it".

Image, you have to realise that Christ could not have died other than He did ,for the simple reason that all the particulars of His death (time, place, manner) were foreknown, predestined and foretold by His father and if any of these had happened otherwise, then would God have been stripped of His foreknowledge, power to decree, foretell and necessarily of every of His attributes and hence cease to be God.

If He couldn't have died, He wouldn't have bothered to escape or hide himself, or strictly charge people not to reveal His identity. When He was to die, He told them Himself, and viola, they started stopping ears, tearing shirts and nailing hands. He knew the plan and played His part in the plan., submitting to it even when tempted not to. Was He tempted, yes?
God wouldn't have been stripped of anything that is His. There are some people who think it is disrespect to call God's name or write His name. There are some people who clean their pen and themselves before and after writing "GOD". I think this are all naive human concepts(harmless and not sinful to me btw), it's not about stripping God of any attributes. God is GOD. He can't cease to be God, whatever the word cease may mean again.

His secret will however is unknown to us and not prescribed to us. We cannot frustrate it.

Can you name one of His secret wills? How then do you know that we cannot frustrate it.
Eccesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
I believe God has given us His word(the Bible) so that we may know His will,, and follow it for our good. It's how choice to make and He is very willing and able to aid us.

Image123:

@5solasI do believe in foreknowledge, but knowledge and grace do not mean the same thing, do they? The OP is on GRACE, not knowledge. You bring in knowledge into the discuss and have always sounded fatalistic from my knowledge of you. So sorry if i'm wrong sha.

The OP is on grace,yes. The grace of God is about what God does (the works of God) and this is opposed to what Man does (the works of Man).When you talk of the works of Man you are also talking of their will/’freewill’. Related to any discourse on grace and ‘freewill’ are foreknowledge and predestination.
Furthermore I had to answer the OP’s question highlighted below.

''Why did you get to see year 2011 and the other person didnt?''.

You should also give your take on it.

I brought in foreknowledge,not knowledge; just so we are focused.

Image123:

.Says who @the bolded? I didn't say that the knowledge of God's will/plan should make one tempt God. What i've said is that if one tempts God, God's will/plan can be changed inspite of the knowledge. A positive example for you then, God said Nineveh was going to be destroyed. They repented and things were changed. You can't say "Note that Nineveh must be destroyed in 40days because the Holy Spirit revealed it".

I had said in my very first post that my efforts did not count on my seeing 2011.I laid it wholly on God’s grace and you responded by saying ,’’But don't try sleeping across the third mainland bridge lagos sha, that grace will deny you sharp sharp.lol. We're not God's zombies but partners together with Him’’.I am now confused as to what you were trying to say.

Image you have to answer the question below:
As at the time God was sending Jonah to Nineveh, did He know to a certainty that He would not destroy Nineveh after Jonah would have given His message to them?

[/quote][quote author=Image123 link=topic=577829.msg7586852#msg7586852 date=1295792901]
If He couldn't have died, He wouldn't have bothered to escape or hide himself, or strictly charge people not to reveal His identity. When He was to die, He told them Himself, and viola, they started stopping ears, tearing shirts and nailing hands. He knew the plan and played His part in the plan., submitting to it even when tempted not to. Was He tempted, yes?
God wouldn't have been stripped of anything that is His. There are some people who think it is disrespect to call God's name or write His name. There are some people who clean their pen and themselves before and after writing "GOD". I think this are all naive human concepts(harmless and not sinful to me btw), it's not about stripping God of any attributes. God is GOD. He can't cease to be God, whatever the word cease may mean again.

Lol at the bolded. Don’t you realise dear Image, that God does not only ordain the end but th e means thereunto.
The formulators of ‘freewill’ were quick and ready to emphasize ‘freewill’ and to de-emphasize foreknowledge and predestination just so they could make God ‘fair’. Is it not ironic seeing that the latter are biblical terms while the former is not?
In effect then as far as the ‘freewill’ tenet was maintained , they were satisfied, let men think what they may of the plainly revealed divine attributes. How sad!

Image123:

.Can you name one of His secret wills? How then do you know that we cannot frustrate it.
Eccesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
I believe God has given us His word(the Bible) so that we may know His will,, and follow it for our good. It's how choice to make and He is very willing and able to aid us.

Quite an easy undertaking, dear Image. Please endeavour to read the Joseph story, for example (Gen.37-50).
It was God’s secret will that Joseph should be sent to Egypt. The brothers could not frustrate it. Lol, how can you frustrate what you don’t even know about. Much good their ‘freewill’ accomplished for them! I hope you read also in Psalm105:17 as well as Genesis 45; 5; and 50:20 that God sent Him (Joseph), to Egypt!

@5solas
I saw your reply since yesterday. I'll like to back my replies with scriptures, so please give me till like 2days to full reply, thanks.
On secret wills, do read Psalm 81v13-16. It seems to speak of a secret will frustrated. What i'm establishing from the scriptures is that God's will/plan can in some cases be followed/disobeyed by man. He made us with that feature it seems.

Image123:

@5solas
I saw your reply since yesterday. I'll like to back my replies with scriptures, so please give me till like 2days to full reply, thanks.
On secret will[/b]s, do read Psalm 81v13-16. It [b]seems to speak of a secret will frustrated. What i'm establishing from the scriptures is that God's will/plan can in some cases be followed/disobeyed by man. He made us with that feature it seems.

Well, I am happy you now so much as grant that there is a secret will. However, I do not see it in the passage you quoted above. The passage talks of the consequences of violating His precepts (revealed will). The very nature of His secret will is that:
1. it is unknown to us
2. not enjoined on us
3. always fulfilled
4. known for the fact that it has happened.

More on this later, if God permits!

@5solas
Thanks for your patience.

The OP is on grace,yes. The grace of God is about what God does (the works of God) and this is opposed to what Man does (the works of Man).When you talk of the works of Man you are also talking of their will/’freewill’. Related to any discourse on grace and ‘freewill’ are foreknowledge and predestination.

Okay, i'm clearer on the above

''Why did you get to see year 2011 and the other person didnt?''.

You should also give your take on it.

Errrrrrrrrh, i thought i did? Here " 'why did you see the new year?' answer is most definitely by God's grace. But we must not forget those who are able to frustrate that grace and go 'before their time'"

I brought in foreknowledge,not knowledge; just so we are focused.

i classified foreknowledge under knowledge. no probs, i understand you though.

As at the time God was sending Jonah to Nineveh, did He know to a certainty that He would not destroy Nineveh after Jonah would have given His message to them?

you know more about secret wills than i do sir. Here is the revealed one below

Jonah 3:2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
Jon 3:3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
Jon 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

The formulators of ‘freewill’ were quick and ready to emphasize ‘freewill’ and to de-emphasize foreknowledge and predestination just so they could make God ‘fair’.

I'd emphasise the two because they're both in the scriptures. Supporting one only of the two will not be complete truth, and may be a denial of the whole scripture and mind of God.

Is it not ironic seeing that the latter are biblical terms while the former is not?

i see the two i.e 'foreknowledge' and 'free will' in the scriptures, not just one. Here are some examples and demonstration of free will.
Leviticus 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Exodus 25:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering.
Ezra 7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Matthew 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son.
Mat 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

However, I do not see it in the passage you quoted above.

Psalm 81:13 Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!
Psa 81:14 I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries.
Psa 81:15 The haters of the LORD should have submitted themselves unto him: but their time should have endured forever.
Psa 81:16 He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat: and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee.
The 'should' is what God wanted to do(secret to the israelites) for the Israelites who came out of egypt, but because of their deeds,His plan wasn't fulfilled. he planned to give them not just water, but honey out of the rock.

The very nature of His secret will is that:
1. it is unknown to us
2. not enjoined on us
3. always fulfilled
4. known for the fact that it has happened.

More on this later, if God permits!

is this outlined criteria in the bible? if yes, where please.

@ Image.

Thanks for your submissions. I will reply by this time tomorrow, God willing.

Image123:

@5solas
Errrrrrrrrh, i thought i did? Here " [color=#550000]'why did you see the new year?' answer is most definitely by God's grace. But we must not forget those who are able to frustrate that grace and go 'before their time'

You answered the bolded, to the question, ''Why did you get to see year 2011 and the other person didnt?''. Am I to infer therefore that from your point of view, the difference between believers who didn’t see 2011 and those who did, is that the one ‘was able to frustrate God’s grace’ and the other wasn’t?

Image123:

@5solas
you know more about secret wills than i do sir. Here is the revealed one below

Jonah[color=#990000] 3:2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
Jon 3:3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
Jon 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Lol. Please let’s not flog dead horses. Answer the simple question below, let’s move on.

5solas:


Image you have to answer the question below:
As at the time God was sending Jonah to Nineveh, did He know to a certainty that He would not destroy Nineveh after Jonah would have given His message to them?

@Image. Your last post was instructive and remarkable, more remarks later, please.

@5solas
i just read your replies, no qualms do take your time. Please do not infer from my post that the difference between the believer alive today and the one dead is merely a frustration of grace. Not at all. My focus wasn't even believers, believers don't frustrate God's grace as often as unbelievers. It may be in God's plan for a person to have died last year, that's accepted. But i'm also saying God may have had better plans of life for a person but he might have become careless/carefree/disobedient/not watchful causing him to be exposed.(just chipped this in, hope it doesn't take the 'focus' off the previous)

Image123:

@5solas
81:13 Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!
Psa 81:14 I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries.
Psa 81:15 The haters of the LORD should have submitted themselves unto him: but their time should have endured forever.
Psa 81:16 He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat: and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee.[/color]
The 'should' is what God wanted to do(secret to the israelites) for the Israelites who came out of egypt, but because of their deeds,His plan wasn't fulfilled. he planned to give them not just water, but honey out of the rock.

is this outlined criteria in the bible? if yes, where please.

I  had before observed that Psalm 81 does not talk about the secret will of God. I will now give an example apart from that of Joseph.
1.The death of Christ.
It was God’s secret will that Christ should be crucified. Note this about the crucifixion:
i. It was  unknown to those who carried out the act
ii. It was not enjoined on them so to do
iii. The act was carried out without fail
iv. Known to be God’s will for the fact that it happened
v. The people involved in the act were inexcusable!(not without sin)
Compare this with the case of Joseph and you will see all the above features running through and wherever and whenever you see these features you see God’s secret will at work.

@Image.
More later,God willing.
However I will be delighted to hear your reply on my posts so far.

Image123:

@5solas
I'd emphasise the two because they're both in the scriptures. Supporting one only of the two will not be complete truth, and may be a denial of the whole scripture and mind of God.

You did not address my concern well enough here. I had said:

5solas:
.
The formulators of ‘freewill’ were quick and ready to emphasize ‘freewill’ and to de-emphasize foreknowledge and predestination just so they could make God ‘fair’. Is it not ironic seeing that the latter are biblical terms while the former is not?
In effect then, as far as the ‘freewill’ tenet was maintained , they were satisfied, let men think what they may of the plainly revealed divine attributes. How sad!

What two were you actually talking of. There are actually three concepts there.