spartan117:

Bro it's easy to try to use many scriptures to confuse yourself. However the book of 1 thesis 4:17 was very clear about the rapture, it says the dead shall rise first and be caught up in the clouds then we who are alive will be caught up as well. I don't know how it's possible to misunderstand such a concise scripture. Let's read it again

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air[color=#990000]: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[/color]

Notice the scripture says caught up together in the clouds. The bible has given three accounts of events similar to rapture and they all follow the same description.

First the bible records that Enoch, then Elijah was taken in the presence of Elisha, then the ascension of Jesus Christ gives us the most graphic illustration of what the rapture will be like, just like it was described in 1 thess 4:17

Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.


If the ascension of Jesus Christ to heaven isn't enough proof that there is a rapture, I don't know what else is.

Let me first clear the air. There is a basic point were both of us agree and that is the Saints would meet Jesus in heaven. But I think our differences is about the manner they would go. If I understand you from our conversation you believe when the trumpet blast those Saints would be taken bodily into heaven but I on the other hand believe that they would give up their fleshly bodies by dieing and be given a spiritual body.
You gave three instance of people who were sort ruptured to heaven Enoch, Elijah and Jesus. Let's look at each case
Enoch :
Gen 5: 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Looking at that scripture the Bible said clearly that Enoch was no more then it says God took him.
"Was no more" meant Enoch died "for God took him" means God took his life. Enoch was not bodily taken to heaven.

Elijah : the scriptures told us that Elijah was taken up into the heavens. I understand you hinge your point on the fact that Elijah was taken to HEAVEN. But how did you come to the conclusion that the heaven mentioned there refers to the invincible abode of God. I hope you know that in the Bible the word heaven can mean the invisible realm where God lives, it is also used to refer to the invincible realm of the devil and his demons ( principalities and power in heavenly place), the term heaven is also used to refer to space were we have sun moon and stars( that was the heavens God created in Genesis 1:1), it also refers to the expense where bird Flys. So how can you just conclude that the heaven to which Elijah went was not where birds fly or to space or the realm of demons. What makes you so sure that the heaven referred to here is the abode of God. Do you know that after Elijah was taken up he wrote a letter to the king of judha some years later (if you are interested I will show you)

Jesus :
According to the book of luke you quoted Jesus was taken up into the heavens. But the question is when? Was it before he died or after? You already know. Jesus gave up his human flesh by dieing and was raised in a spirit body ( don't be fooled by the fact that his disciples saw him because spirits can make them selves visible example the angel that visited Mary)
You see the example of Jesus you gave confirmed what I was trying to explain the Saints can't go to heaven without dieing. Just as Jesus died and was raised so the Saints would die and be raised, only that during the presence of the Lord theirs would be immediately they die

Psalms5522:


Let me first clear the air. There is a basic point were both of us agree and that is the Saints would meet Jesus in heaven. But I think our differences is about the manner they would go. If I understand you from our conversation you believe when the trumpet blast those Saints would be taken bodily into heaven but I on the other hand believe that they would give up their fleshly bodies by dieing and be given a spiritual body.
You gave three instance of people who were sort ruptured to heaven Enoch, Elijah and Jesus. Let's look at each case
Enoch :
Gen 5: 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Looking at that scripture the Bible said clearly that Enoch was no more then it says God took him.
"Was no more" meant Enoch died "for God took him" means God took his life. Enoch was not bodily taken to heaven.

it is false to assume that the phrase 'was no more' means he died the living bible translation puts it this way 'and he disappeared because God took him'

Elijah : the scriptures told us that Elijah was taken up into the heavens. I understand you hinge your point on the fact that Elijah was taken to HEAVEN. But how did you come to the conclusion that the heaven mentioned there refers to the invincible abode of God. I hope you know that in the Bible the word heaven can mean the invisible realm where God lives, it is also used to refer to the invincible realm of the devil and his demons ( principalities and power in heavenly place), the term heaven is also used to refer to space were we have sun moon and stars( that was the heavens God created in Genesis 1:1), it also refers to the expense where bird Flys. So how can you just conclude that the heaven to which Elijah went was not where birds fly or to space or the realm of demons. What makes you so sure that the heaven referred to here is the abode of God. Do you know that after Elijah was taken up he wrote a letter to the king of judha some years later (if you are interested I will show you)

are you actually suggesting Elijah was taken to the realm of the devil or the firmament just to proof a point?
the bible clearly records the chariot of fire and horses of fire that took him up to heaven. To even suggest that he may have been taken to the realm of demons is unwise bro. Don't fall into error.

Jesus :
According to the book of luke you quoted Jesus was taken up into the heavens. But the question is when? Was it before he died or after? You already know.

Scripture clearly records that Jesus ascension took place after his resurrection.

Jesus gave up his human flesh by dying and was raised in a spirit body ( don't be fooled by the fact that his disciples saw him because spirits can make them selves visible example the angel that visited Mary)

the body of jesus christ was not found in the tomb because he had arisen, the disciples saw him and thomas doubted because he thought jesus was a ghost. to proof that he was present there in flesh he showed thomas his pierced hands and thomas touched him to confirm that he was flesh.
My question to you is how was thomas able to touch Jesus christ if Jesus was a spirit?
the resurrection of jesus is the very foundation of christianity you must understand that jesus christ ressurected in flesh, he didn't just appear as a spirit.

You see the example of Jesus you gave confirmed what I was trying to explain the Saints can't go to heaven without dying. Just as Jesus died and was raised so the Saints would die and be raised, only that during the presence of the Lord theirs would be immediately they die

Scripture clearly records that Jesus ascension took place after his resurrection.[/quote]
i will still refer you back to 1 thess 4:17
it is true that only the dead can will be raptured but have you forgotten that Jesus already died for us?
have you forgotten that when God raised him, we were raised together with christ?
so why are you suggesting that we have to die again where did you get that from?

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.


My God! these are basic facts that every christian ought to know. Which denomination do you belong to? let me get a wider perspective.

FOLYKAZE:
Many bother their minds with the existence of a being, personal or impersonal, called God even when we do not understand what God is, or the nature of existence itself. It's more about knowing oneself, the Yoruba spirituality call it 'Ori', and emphatically express that the self is an arch divinity, and should be acknowledged. That acknowledgement makes one GOD. Know thy self and you will become a God. I am a God, a concious living divinity, eternal and exist.

I choose to identify myself as a spiritual atheist. A spiritual atheist, unlike traditional atheist, tends to redefine God as a form of natural energies, and discard all form of superficial attachment by religious establishment.

Permit me to bring it down a little. Everyone would think Sango is a fiery man breathing fire. I see Sango as a personification of electrical energy.

Lady Justice is a representation of Law/order. Atheist might lock out idea of worshipping Lady Justice, and even deny it exist in reality. But she does...as legality. Would atheist deny existence of Lady justice after knowing there is law in the society?

Therefore, instead of debating the existence of God, understanding the nature of existence and God is vital.

What exist? What is God?

Nice input....but does saying you're a spiritual atheist really suffice?? I'd be more agreeable if it's put as spiritual being or entity but what does my opinion matter anyways.

Stay safe bro.....btw I believe it's about time Seun made a section for Philosophy


cc Seun

Psalms5522:
Africa has for centuries been the home of a people who believe in a God (monotheism) or plurality of Gods. But in recent years there is a movement that is growing at astronomical rate it is called atheism. A lot of friends here on nairaland Identify as atheist and a lot more are simpertizers who might not want to Identify with the atheist due to the stigma attached. There is still the religious subset of people (Christians, Muslims, traditionalists etc) who will do anything to stop this rise in atheism.
So what is atheism? And what is fueling it's rise in Africa.

The definition of the term atheism on the surface is a lack of belief in a God or God's. But to know more about what it means let's ask atheist. According to the website atheists.org it says “atheism is not a disbelief in God or Gods or a denial of Gods; it is a lack of belief in Gods”. The above definition seems confusing even to me at first, but let me illustrate it this way. A young man who has a father that doesn't care if he exist or not, a father who is alive but it's as if he is not, can use the words “I don't have a father “ that doesn't mean he denies the existence of his father but he doesn't believe in his role as father. Although there are some atheist who are far right that holds on to the denial of God's existence altogether. I know atheist in the house are relating to what I am saying (though am 100% theist, I believe in God)

Now to my theist friends (that is those who believe in God or gods) I understand your concern about the rise of atheism but what is fueling this movement.

According to Michael J. Buckley a theology professor : “ The Churches were the soil for atheism… the western conscience found itself deeply scandalized and disgusted by confessional religions” how Ironic, religion is the fertilizer for atheism how?

The crimes people have committed in the name of a divine being is enough to drive one away from the divine one. Consider witch hunting small children in southern Nigeria at the order of a so called representative of God , the massacre of people in the north by bokoharam, the ritual killings and other barbaric custom of the African traditional religions. Look at the role religious leaders play in this current crisis we have instead of sensitizing their followers about the dangers of Corona virus, they are on a campaign of disinformation and outright lies so as to keep their grip on their members.

Another factor fueling the rise of atheism is the desire to be accountable to no one, Karl Max whose writings would influence so many atheist once said : “ I want to increase the minds freedom from religion “. A disbelief in a divine being means anyone can set his or her own standards as to what is acceptable or not without fear of offending an omniscient divine one who can at his own whim and caprice condemn me to so great beyond of suffering. To these atheist it lifts a heavy weight off their shoulders.

The third cause of this rise is the band wagon effect. A sizable number of people who identify as atheist do so because they think it's the cool thing to do, others feel it makes you look or feel intelligent. “This group sha una funny”

From my research these are some things I found. But there are still some questions that beg for answers.
Will the world be better of without religion?
Can humans exist without religion?
Is religion really the problem or are we missing the human factor?
Next article loading…

Reference
atheists.org
en.m.wikipedea.org/irreligion_in_africa
wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1994880

Many people you think that are atheists actually believe in a God, a creator or life force but they do not believe in religion. Religious folks see non-religious adherents as atheists which is wrong. Religions are several man-made pathways to God and no one religion holds the exclusive way to this God. Each religion contains snippets of truths in them and no one is absolutely correct. God sides with no religion and the best thing any human on earth can do is to have a direct and personal connection with the creator. You don’t need a pastor or imam to access God. The God which many people seek outside actually lies within them but they do not know it.

FOLYKAZE:
Many bother their minds with the existence of a being, personal or impersonal, called God even when we do not understand what God is, or the nature of existence itself. It's more about knowing oneself, the Yoruba spirituality call it 'Ori', and emphatically express that the self is an arch divinity, and should be acknowledged. That acknowledgement makes one GOD. Know thy self and you will become a God. I am a God, a concious living divinity, eternal and exist.

I choose to identify myself as a spiritual atheist. A spiritual atheist, unlike traditional atheist, tends to redefine God as a form of natural energies, and discard all form of superficial attachment by religious establishment.

Permit me to bring it down a little. Everyone would think Sango is a fiery man breathing fire. I see Sango as a personification of electrical energy.

Lady Justice is a representation of Law/order. Atheist might lock out idea of worshipping Lady Justice, and even deny it exist in reality. But she does...as legality. Would atheist deny existence of Lady justice after knowing there is law in the society?

Therefore, instead of debating the existence of God, understanding the nature of existence and God is vital.

What exist? What is God?

I have tried to have this conversation with you before, lemme try again.

Is it your understanding that these are concepts man is using to understand nature? That is there is no being there but a conceptualisation of particular forms of energy as embodiment of those characteristics that energy form exhibits? Eg there is no Sango but conceptualizing lightning and thunder as Sango allows an understanding of its peculiarities?

Also is it your understanding that these concepts do not demand worship? Subsequently, do you need to do any religious rites such as sacrifice animals or make observances in other to harness the knowledge they represent?

spartan117:

it is false to assume that the phrase 'was no more' means he died the living bible translation puts it this way 'and he disappeared because God took him'


are you actually suggesting Elijah was taken to the realm of the devil or the firmament just to proof a point?
the bible clearly records the chariot of fire and horses of fire that took him up to heaven. To even suggest that he may have been taken to the realm of demons is unwise bro. Don't fall into error.



Scripture clearly records that Jesus ascension took place after his resurrection.


the body of jesus christ was not found in the tomb because he had arisen, the disciples saw him and thomas doubted because he thought jesus was a ghost. to proof that he was present there in flesh he showed thomas his pierced hands and thomas touched him to confirm that he was flesh.
My question to you is how was thomas able to touch Jesus christ if Jesus was a spirit?
the resurrection of jesus is the very foundation of christianity you must understand that jesus christ ressurected in flesh, he didn't just appear as a spirit.


Scripture clearly records that Jesus ascension took place after his resurrection.
i will still refer you back to 1 thess 4:17
it is true that only the dead can will be raptured but have you forgotten that Jesus already died for us?
have you forgotten that when God raised him, we were raised together with christ?
so why are you suggesting that we have to die again where did you get that from?

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.


My God! these are basic facts that every christian ought to know. Which denomination do you belong to? let me get a wider perspective.

I identify as a student of the Bible. I believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God. I love the Bible and read it regularly I have completed the whole Bible twice now but still learning new things as I go over it again, reminds me of what someone said, he said the Bible was written with the miracle of condensation the more you read the more it opens up like maze . In my years as a bible student I have come to understand that there are no contradictions in the Bible. Yes am affiliated to a group but that is immaterial it would only cloud our Bible discussion with sentiments.
Now back to what we were discussing there is a scripture I think is the foundation of everything we are saying and a proper understanding of that place I think would clear up so many grey areas for us.
Please read John 3:13. After reading please let me know how you see it.
Hoping to hear from you soon.
Thanks

Psalms5522:


I identify as a student of the Bible. I believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God. I love the Bible and read it regularly I have completed the whole Bible twice now but still learning new things as I go over it again, reminds me of what someone said, he said the Bible was written with the miracle of condensation the more you read the more it opens up like maze . In my years as a bible student I have come to understand that there are no contradictions in the Bible. Yes am affiliated to a group but that is immaterial it would only cloud our Bible discussion with sentiments.
Now back to what we were discussing there is a scripture I think is the foundation of everything we are saying and a proper understanding of that place I think would clear up so many grey areas for us.
Please read John 3:13. After reading please let me know how you see it.
Hoping to hear from you soon.
Thanks

This doesn't answer the series of 'serious' points I raised in my previous post.

I call it serious because these are foundational truths that every Christian ought to know, and shouldn't even be a debate.

So I would kindly refer you back to my previous post. Thanks.

Religion gave birth to atheism.

bigfrancis21:


Many people you think that are atheists actually believe in a God, a creator or life force but they do not believe in religion. Religious folks see non-religious adherents as atheists which is wrong. Religions are several man-made pathways to God and no one religion holds the exclusive way to this God. Each religion contains snippets of truths in them and no one is absolutely correct. God sides with no religion and the best thing any human on earth can do is to have a direct and personal connection with the creator. You don’t need a pastor or imam to access God. The God which many people seek outside actually lies within them but they do not know it.

There is no God within a human twist that has no defence against age-related and stress-related diseases.
It must age.
It must also engage in certain activities when it is unlucky such as terrible forms of slavery.

spartan117:

This doesn't answer the series of 'serious' points I raised in my previous post.

I call it serious because these are foundational truths that every Christian ought to know, and shouldn't even be a debate.

So I would kindly refer you back to my previous post. Thanks.

Do you know that after Elijah was taken up he wrote a letter to the king of judha some 5 years later (if you are interested I will show you)

Yes I agree with you Gen 5:24 never mentioned Enoch dying but it also never mentioned where God took him to or was it mentioned there?

I believe that the Bible does not contradict itself 100%. Now if Enoch and Elijah had gone to heaven why then did Jesus said in John 3 :13 that no man has ascended into heaven?
If Enoch and Elijah had gone to heaven then they must have seen God I suppose then why did John 1:18 say no man has seen God at anytime?
If Enoch and Elijah had gone to heaven that means Jesus was not the first to ascend from Earth to heaven then why is Jesus refered to as the first born from the dead even 1cor 15:20-23 when talking about the order in which people will go to heaven he started with christ as the first fruit before those who belong to christ during his presence why?
These questions also beg for answers and the only person who can accurately tell us who is in heaven should be the only person who we know came from there. If Jesus said that Enoch and Elijah were there then they were there but if he said otherwise then we have to reexamine those scriptures we thought told us they are there. That was why I drew your attention to John 3 :13.

Wish you a gud nite rest and God's blessings.

LordReed:


I have tried to have this conversation with you before, lemme try again.

Is it your understanding that these are concepts man is using to understand nature?

It is the original template of all form of spiritualities, esp the Yoruba spiritual system. That everything that exist is alive and conscious, and interconnected relationship must be formed with our natural environment. They use this concept for understanding, connecting and relating with nature.

LordReed:
That is there is no being there but a conceptualisation of particular forms of energy as embodiment of those characteristics that energy form exhibits?

There is a being, or soul or self or Ori. Though the concept of Ori/soul is quite different from the western viewpoint. It is more of consciousness (awareness and reaction), this should be separated from senility. Existence is centred on reactions either chemical or mechanical or whatever.

LordReed:
Eg there is no Sango but conceptualizing lightning and thunder as Sango allows an understanding of its peculiarities?

There is a guy called Sango. historically, he ruled in the Oyo kingdom many years back. But due to the fact that this king mastered the act of annexing lightning, his name was used to conceptualize the nature of lightning/electrical energy. More like when discoveries are named after discoverer today. But before Sango was born, there has been Jakuta cult.

However, aside from the historical aspect of Sango, much other attributes about him found in Ifa are allegorical contents explaining phenomenon of lightning and thunder. Ever wondered why Sango is called Arira onibon orun (flashing light, the gunman of heavens). Flash light cannot be human; it is flashes of lightning. Gunman of heaven cannot be human too because gun was introduced to Yoruba people by the Europeans in 14th centuries. It is a metaphor referring to sound effect of thunder.

Also note the marital status of Sango. According to Ifa, he is married to Osun, Oba, Oya and Olokun. The warrior companion among the four wives is Oya (the deity of violent wind/storm), who always lead the way to battlefields and also carries his husband weapons. Modern knowledge has shown that wind convey electrons, and the combustion in the air leads to lightning and thunder.

And no matter how violent thunderstorm is, it is dispersed or suppressed or cannot penetrate into freshwater. Freshwater here is represented as Osun in Ifa. The correlation is much. Read it up.

LordReed:
Also is it your understanding that these concepts do not demand worship? Subsequently, do you need to do any religious rites such as sacrifice animals or make observances in other to harness the knowledge they represent?

How do you understand the word 'worship'? On a general scale, it is acknowledging worth of something. It isnt about bowing and praising. It is giving preference to something.

In the Yoruba system, what you call worship is nourishment. The deity that collect largest share of ebo (sacrifice) is mouth called Olubobotiribo. Bible says belly is the god of some people. Do you know that you worship your belly and self? You may disagree but know that you give much essence to yourself and belly than anything else. That is worship.

Dont you consciously or unconsciously worship the symbols of nationality either coat of arm or national flag?

I have asked on here though, why water running in my tap is not been worshipped or seen as deity but why the running stream in my street is worshipped. I think it is about value, purpose and essence which metamorphosis to authority and dominion. Maybe these deities are worshipped for the benefit they have provided the worshippers. Maybe the worshippers are only showing appreciation. Maybe the worshipper knew he lives because the sun shine and thought appreciating the sun would be much important.

I understand though that Ifa system is knowledge based system. It is centuries of studies, observations, experimentations and detailing of all natural phenomenon.

Maximus69:
According to God's word, ATHEISM will soon overthrow all the religions on planet earth excluding just one, and that's the one and only group of worshipers of the TRUE God!

The time is short now!

I've been making this known to many atheists on Nairaland, telling them that their group will soon take over the world power and declare war on religion!

That time is now coming faster even than i expected!

All religionists should be prepared for the worst, because this seemingly permissive ATHEISTS will come out like locusts against religion, it will remain only one group of worshipers, it's when they try to attack this one and only TRUE Christians that God will act to destroy all of them including those who failed to take their stand with God!

Here you speak the plain truth!

shadeyinka:

Here you speak the plain truth!

But i never quoted any scriptures so how come you think it's PLAIN TRUTH?

Well that's Watchtower Organization stand, so if you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses it simply means you're not safe!

Maximus69:


But i never quoted any scriptures so how come you think it's PLAIN TRUTH?

Well that's Watchtower Organization stand, so if you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses it simply means you're not safe!

Are you saying it's a lie that atheism will in future overrun Christian communities?

FOLYKAZE:


It is the original template of all form of spiritualities, esp the Yoruba spiritual system. That everything that exist is alive and conscious, and interconnected relationship must be formed with our natural environment. They use this concept for understanding, connecting and relating with nature.



There is a being, or soul or self or Ori. Though the concept of Ori/soul is quite different from the western viewpoint. It is more of consciousness (awareness and reaction), this should be separated from senility. Existence is centred on reactions either chemical or mechanical or whatever.




There is a guy called Sango. historically, he ruled in the Oyo kingdom many years back. But due to the fact that this king mastered the act of annexing lightning, his name was used to conceptualize the nature of lightning/electrical energy. More like when discoveries are named after discoverer today. But before Sango was born, there has been Jakuta cult.

However, aside from the historical aspect of Sango, much other attributes about him found in Ifa are allegorical contents explaining phenomenon of lightning and thunder. Ever wondered why Sango is called Arira onibon orun (flashing light, the gunman of heavens). Flash light cannot be human; it is flashes of lightning. Gunman of heaven cannot be human too because gun was introduced to Yoruba people by the Europeans in 14th centuries. It is a metaphor referring to sound effect of thunder.

Also note the marital status of Sango. According to Ifa, he is married to Osun, Oba, Oya and Olokun. The warrior companion among the four wives is Oya (the deity of violent wind/storm), who always lead the way to battlefields and also carries his husband weapons. Modern knowledge has shown that wind convey electrons, and the combustion in the air leads to lightning and thunder.

And no matter how violent thunderstorm is, it is dispersed or suppressed or cannot penetrate into freshwater. Freshwater here is represented as Osun in Ifa. The correlation is much. Read it up.



How do you understand the word 'worship'? On a general scale, it is acknowledging worth of something. It isnt about bowing and praising. It is giving preference to something.

In the Yoruba system, what you call worship is nourishment. The deity that collect largest share of ebo (sacrifice) is mouth called Olubobotiribo. Bible says belly is the god of some people. Do you know that you worship your belly and self? You may disagree but know that you give much essence to yourself and belly than anything else. That is worship.

Dont you consciously or unconsciously worship the symbols of nationality either coat of arm or national flag?

I have asked on here though, why water running in my tap is not been worshipped or seen as deity but why the running stream in my street is worshipped. I think it is about value, purpose and essence which metamorphosis to authority and dominion. Maybe these deities are worshipped for the benefit they have provided the worshippers. Maybe the worshippers are only showing appreciation. Maybe the worshipper knew he lives because the sun shine and thought appreciating the sun would be much important.

I understand though that Ifa system is knowledge based system. It is centuries of studies, observations, experimentations and detailing of all natural phenomenon.

I think I understand a bit more but what does it in all mean in practice? How do you practice your own spirituality?

shadeyinka:

Are you saying it's a lie that atheism will in future overrun Christian communities?

Aren't you certain of what you've already approved as "PLAIN TRUTH"?

I was born in a Christian home but I had this innate atheistic attribute in me because everything I was been told in the Bible just didn’t add up.

I couldn’t tell my parents and I didn’t have a mind of my own as at then. But now that I studied a scientific course, I become more curious to find the truth. In the process I noticed that it’s all been a key to control our minds, it’s not really there.

In the process of finding the truth, I told myself that I would only accept things that can be provable. If the existence of god cannot be proven then we cannot say he exist until it has been proven.

I read a lot about how the universe operates; life cycle of stars, formation of nebula, black holes, warm holes, galaxies, time dilation and even evolution. I saw verifiable evidences for all these and most of them contradict what religous books preaches.

Even the fraudulent nature of pastors added a lot to it.

All these fueled the atheism in me

Maximus69:


You're seeing through your anus my guy!

You presented an excellent example of religion and you can't even see it!

If soccer is not a religion why do fans who spent their money watching the players fight and in most cases kill one another?

WHY?
WHY?
WHY?

How is soccer a religion?

You want to redefine religion?

Maximus69:


Aren't you certain of what you've already approved as "PLAIN TRUTH"?

You are the one casting doubts on what you previously said!

shadeyinka:

You are the one casting doubts on what you previously said!

You confirmed the claims of the Jehovah's Witnesses Organization that only their members will be saved. Yet you argued profusely the last time we had a discussion that salvation is not based on group!

Maximus69:


You confirmed the claims of the Jehovah's Witnesses Organization that only their members will be saved. Yet you argued profusely the last time we had a discussion that salvation is not based on group!

The spirit of untruth has possessed you again. Where in that post did you say "that only members of the Jehovah's Witness Organisation will be saved"?

The only point of agreement was about the fact that atheism will grow and overtake the body of Christ!
No more, no less!

It's amazing how you find it so convenient to speak untruths

To help you out, here's your post:

Maximus69:

According to God's word, ATHEISM will soon overthrow all the religions on planet earth excluding just one, and that's the one and only group of worshipers of the TRUE God!

The time is short now!

I've been making this known to many atheists on Nairaland, telling them that their group will soon take over the world power and declare war on religion!

That time is now coming faster even than i expected!

All religionists should be prepared for the worst, because this seemingly permissive ATHEISTS will come out like locusts against religion, it will remain only one group of worshipers, it's when they try to attack this one and only TRUE Christians that God will act to destroy all of them including those who failed to take their stand with God!

shadeyinka:

The spirit of untruth has possessed you again. Where in that post did you say "that only members of the Jehovah's Witness Organisation will be saved"?

The only point of agreement was about the fact that atheism will grow and overtake the body of Christ!
No more, no less!

It's amazing how you find it so convenient to speak untruths

To help you out, here's your post:

You should have specified the TRUTH aspect then quote the Bible to prove the authenticity of what you're confirming!

I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses and we never believe that none witnesses can survive God's judgment, that's the import of "the one and only group" mentioned!

So since you never specified nor quote the scriptures, you've unknowingly confirmed that only Jehovah's Witnesses are doing God's will!

Maximus69:


You should have specified the TRUTH aspect then quote the Bible to prove the authenticity of what you're confirming!

I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses and we never believe that none witnesses can survive God's judgment, that's the import of "the one and only group" mentioned!

So since you never specified nor quote the scriptures, you've unknowingly confirmed that only Jehovah's Witnesses are doing God's will!

That's YOUR belief and you can believe whatever you want. After all, atheists affirm that God doesn't exist. Your beliefs is not bounding upon others are they?

shadeyinka:

That's YOUR belief and you can believe whatever you want. After all, atheists affirm that God doesn't exist. Your beliefs is not bounding upon others are they?

Next time look before you leap!

You're not a Christian , so be mindful of your response to my posts!

"I am an Omnist, and believe in all religions".

Maximus69:


Next time look before you leap!

You're not a Christian , so be mindful of your response to my posts!

I laugh at you. Who are you to determine who a Christian is: as far as I know, you belong to an association who call themselves "the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania". The question you should truely ask yourself is IF JESUS know you!

Do you think Jesus know you?

shadeyinka:

I laugh at you. Who are you to determine who a Christian is: as far as I know, you belong to an association who call themselves "the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania". The question you should truely ask yourself is IF JESUS know you!

Do you think Jesus know you?

Been through this in the past, but there's no need arguing with you anymore.

Our last discussion is enough to make a distinctive comparison between a Christian and a common Churchgoer!

Just know that what you called the "TRUTH" without even seeing any scriptural reference before confirming it is the assertions of this same Watchtower!

Maximus69:


Been through this in the past, but there's no need arguing with you anymore.

Our last discussion is enough to make a distinctive comparison between a Christian and a common Churchgoer!

Just know that what you called the "TRUTH" without even seeing any scriptural reference before confirming it is the assertions of this same Watchtower!

Satan also mixes truths with lies. It's not surprising his agents in sheep skin do so too

shadeyinka:

Satan also mixes truths with lies. It's not surprising his agents in sheep skin do so too

Satan speak truth!

Well the man from Nazareth had a totally contrary opinion! John 8:44

However it's obvious that you've gotten the message.

You and i are not on the same page!

paxonel:
Ignorance of Christians which arises from pre -conceived man made doctrines.

For instance, man made doctrines which dominated among Christians that the earth was flat in shape was proven wrong, as a result many Christians became atheists.

Other baseless man made doctrines like rapture, end time, Antichrist, Armageddon, mark of the beast or 666 etc which promote fear among Christians and impair their minds to be productively engaged in this world are the major causes of the rise of atheism this modern day.

The question is, when will Christians start getting it right?

Honestly, that Christianity still holds on to this rapture and end time doctrines is laughable.
Even after over 2000 years of failed predictions of the end time.

But it's understandable since the fear factor is what keeps people from renouncing the religion.
Take away the fear of rapture and hell, even pastors would admit they have stopped believing what they're preaching.

Maximus69:


Satan speak truth!

Well the man from Nazareth had a totally contrary opinion! John 8:44

However it's obvious that you've gotten the message.

You and i are not on the same page!

You have mastered the art of your master. Mixing truths with lies like satan himself. Where did I say
"Satan speak truth! "

I'm not surprised, we know from whom you got such fruit from

Gen 3:5: "for God knows that in the day you eat of it, then your eyes shall be opened , and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Gen 3:7: "And the eyes of both of them were opened. And they knew that they [were] naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made girdles for themselves."

Unfortunately for Adam and Eve, they swallowed a mixture of truth and lies leading to SHAME and DEATH!

Shamelessly lying as one well trained!

shadeyinka:

You have mastered the art of your master. Mixing truths with lies like satan himself. Where did I say
"Satan speak truth! "

I'm not surprised, we know from whom you got such fruit from

Gen 3:5: "for God knows that in the day you eat of it, then your eyes shall be opened , and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Gen 3:7: "And the eyes of both of them were opened. And they knew that they [were] naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made girdles for themselves."

Unfortunately for Adam and Eve, they swallowed a mixture of truth and lies leading to SHAME and DEATH!

Shamelessly lying as one well trained!

Our last discussion is enough evidence of who is who!

So this is not the time to start quoting scriptures out of context!