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Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:45pm On Apr 21, 2020
Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man, Or The Devil?
by Ken Ham on April 20, 2020

To begin to answer this question, we must ask, Who is God? Who is Man? Who is the devil?

This is part three in a series about the coronavirus pandemic. Part 1 was titled, “COVID-19’s Impact on AiG and a Biblical Response: 11 Reminders” and Part 2, “Should We Lose Sleep over the Coronavirus.”

I’M CHALLENGING CHRISTIANS NOT TO USE SIMPLISTIC, KNEE-JERK RESPONSES TO THIS SERIOUS TOPIC, BUT TO CAREFULLY STUDY GOD’S WORD TO BUILD OUR THINKING.

I’ve always positioned Answers in Genesis as a biblical authority ministry. That’s always been our emphasis—to stand boldly and unashamedly on the authority of the Word of God and to take God at his Word. We've always been committed to sound thinking and biblical truth from the very first verse. In this article, I tried my utmost to provide an answer to the question posed with carefully reasoned thought based on solid biblical theology. I’m challenging Christians not to use simplistic, knee-jerk responses to this serious topic, but to carefully study God’s Word to build our thinking.

To begin part 3, we need to ask this question:

Who is God?

I love what the prophet Isaiah proclaimed:

"Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; His understanding is unsearchable" (Isaiah 40:28).

Yes, God is the Creator.

But before we can discuss what it means that God is the Creator of all things, we need to have some understanding of something so great, it’s really beyond our comprehension. Unless we truly understand who God is, we won’t correctly answer such questions as “Who is responsible for the coronavirus?” Secularists will claim that for Christians who do believe in God, then that God must be responsible for such a virus. However, they have no concept of a true understanding of the Creator God. And I do think that because we are finite humans, it’s easy for us to limit our understanding of God to our human terms.

For instance, I’ve had people over the years ask me if I’m a Calvinist or Arminian. My answer to them is “neither and both.” Now that sounds like a contradiction. Besides the fact that I really struggle with categorising people into theological systems devised by man, to me, it’s an answer consistent with what the bible teaches about who God is.

The Creator God of the Bible exists in eternity, and the Scripture teaches us He is:

Omnipotent: For nothing will be impossible with God (Luke 1:37).
Omniscient: In whom [Jesus] are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge (Colossians 2:3).
Omnipresent: The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good (Proverbs 15:3).
He is infinitely powerful, infinite in knowledge and wisdom, and is everywhere at all times. We also learn that God is three in one—God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Many times in Scripture we read that God is the Creator, but we also read that Jesus created all things: Colossians 1:16 teaches us that “for by Him [Jesus] all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through Him and for Him.” Jesus is the second member of the Trinity, and Scripture states: “For in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily” (Colossians 2:9).

The third member of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all” (2 Corinthians 13:14).

Now, in Psalm 90:2 we read: “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.”

So God, who is one but three, exists from everlasting to everlasting—God exists in eternity. He is outside of time. Other verses of Scripture that teach this include Exodus 3:14 (the great “I AM”) and Revelation 1:8 (the alpha and omega).

For More
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Y0rubaPrince: 12:48pm On Apr 21, 2020
Chinese Communist Party
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by aaking(m): 12:52pm On Apr 21, 2020
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by UceeGod(m): 2:07pm On Apr 21, 2020
God is Omniscient - He knew beforehand that a pandemic is coming
God is Omnipotent - He has the power to prevent or stop the crisis
God is Omnipresent - He is everywhere and very much and ultimately in control

Bottomline: God sometimes allows satan and his agents (including humans) to have their way so long it serves His good and glorious purpose.

3 Likes

Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:03pm On Apr 24, 2020
OLAADEGBU:


Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man, Or The Devil?
by Ken Ham on April 20, 2020

To begin to answer this question, we must ask, Who is God? Who is Man? Who is the devil?

This is part three in a series about the coronavirus pandemic. Part 1 was titled, “COVID-19’s Impact on AiG and a Biblical Response: 11 Reminders” and Part 2, “Should We Lose Sleep over the Coronavirus.”

I’M CHALLENGING CHRISTIANS NOT TO USE SIMPLISTIC, KNEE-JERK RESPONSES TO THIS SERIOUS TOPIC, BUT TO CAREFULLY STUDY GOD’S WORD TO BUILD OUR THINKING.

I’ve always positioned Answers in Genesis as a biblical authority ministry. That’s always been our emphasis—to stand boldly and unashamedly on the authority of the Word of God and to take God at his Word. We've always been committed to sound thinking and biblical truth from the very first verse. In this article, I tried my utmost to provide an answer to the question posed with carefully reasoned thought based on solid biblical theology. I’m challenging Christians not to use simplistic, knee-jerk responses to this serious topic, but to carefully study God’s Word to build our thinking.

To begin part 3, we need to ask this question:

Who is God?

I love what the prophet Isaiah proclaimed:

"Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; His understanding is unsearchable" (Isaiah 40:28).

Yes, God is the Creator.

But before we can discuss what it means that God is the Creator of all things, we need to have some understanding of something so great, it’s really beyond our comprehension. Unless we truly understand who God is, we won’t correctly answer such questions as “Who is responsible for the coronavirus?” Secularists will claim that for Christians who do believe in God, then that God must be responsible for such a virus. However, they have no concept of a true understanding of the Creator God. And I do think that because we are finite humans, it’s easy for us to limit our understanding of God to our human terms.

For instance, I’ve had people over the years ask me if I’m a Calvinist or Arminian. My answer to them is “neither and both.” Now that sounds like a contradiction. Besides the fact that I really struggle with categorising people into theological systems devised by man, to me, it’s an answer consistent with what the bible teaches about who God is.

The Creator God of the Bible exists in eternity, and the Scripture teaches us He is:

Omnipotent: For nothing will be impossible with God (Luke 1:37).
Omniscient: In whom [Jesus] are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge (Colossians 2:3).
Omnipresent: The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good (Proverbs 15:3).
He is infinitely powerful, infinite in knowledge and wisdom, and is everywhere at all times. We also learn that God is three in one—God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Many times in Scripture we read that God is the Creator, but we also read that Jesus created all things: Colossians 1:16 teaches us that “for by Him [Jesus] all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through Him and for Him.” Jesus is the second member of the Trinity, and Scripture states: “For in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily” (Colossians 2:9).

The third member of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all” (2 Corinthians 13:14).

Now, in Psalm 90:2 we read: “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.”

So God, who is one but three, exists from everlasting to everlasting—God exists in eternity. He is outside of time. Other verses of Scripture that teach this include Exodus 3:14 (the great “I AM”) and Revelation 1:8 (the alpha and omega).

For More

Dig Deeper

We are starting to get a little understanding of who God is. But let’s get an even deeper understanding of Him.

From Scripture we learn that God knew all about us before we even existed—before the world was created: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations” (Jeremiah 1:5).

Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. (Ephesians 1:4)
Many other Scriptures also point to the fact that God in eternity, before the foundation of the world, had thought, willed, and determined things that were decided in the eternal mind and counsel of God. These are called the eternal decrees of God.

God’s Word tells us about his eternal decrees:

As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will. (Ephesians 1:10–11, emphasis added)
This means that with God, nothing is accidental. God never has any afterthoughts. Nothing is uncertain about God’s activities as He has a definite plan and purpose about man, salvation, and the end of it all. His plan is fixed; it is unchangeable. As one of my friends often states, “God has yet to make His first mistake.”

For More
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by finalboss(m): 7:55pm On Apr 24, 2020
UceeGod:
God is Omniscient - He knew beforehand that a pandemic is coming
God is Omnipotent - He has the power to prevent or stop the crisis
God is Omnipresent - He is everywhere and very much and ultimately in control

Bottomline: God sometimes allows satan and his agents (including humans) to have their way so long it serves His good and glorious purpose .

If you don't have something meaningful to say just read and move on.
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Image123(m): 8:02pm On Apr 24, 2020
The three.
God, because He permitted it.
Satan, because it's his job to steal kill and destroy. That's basically what coronavirus is doing.
Man, because the love of money is the root of all evil. For pecuniary gains, some men have been used of the devil to fester this.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:16pm On Apr 25, 2020
OLAADEGBU:


Dig Deeper

We are starting to get a little understanding of who God is. But let’s get an even deeper understanding of Him.

From Scripture we learn that God knew all about us before we even existed—before the world was created: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations” (Jeremiah 1:5).

Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. (Ephesians 1:4)
Many other Scriptures also point to the fact that God in eternity, before the foundation of the world, had thought, willed, and determined things that were decided in the eternal mind and counsel of God. These are called the eternal decrees of God.

God’s Word tells us about his eternal decrees:

As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will. (Ephesians 1:10–11, emphasis added)
This means that with God, nothing is accidental. God never has any afterthoughts. Nothing is uncertain about God’s activities as He has a definite plan and purpose about man, salvation, and the end of it all. His plan is fixed; it is unchangeable. As one of my friends often states, “God has yet to make His first mistake.”

For More

No Chance

God’s Word also teaches us that there is really no such thing as chance. Even the life of a little sparrow is in the hands of God, and nothing happens to that sparrow that’s not under his control.

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. (Matthew 10:29)
All events are ultimately governed by the sovereign will of God. Nothing happens by blind chance.

“The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD” (Proverbs 16:33). Or we could read it this way: Even though we make our own decisions, it’s the Lord alone who determines what happens. How can those two things be true at the same time? But that’s the point—they are!

There’s nothing God doesn’t know about or control. As we are told, “But even the hairs of your head are all numbered” (Matthew 10:30).

The plan of God comprehends and determines all things and events of every kind that come to pass. If this is so, then it must mean that God has determined certain ends, and he has determined everything that leads to those ends. And nothing can or will change that.

For More
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by MuttleyLaff: 9:22pm On Apr 25, 2020
UceeGod:
God is Omniscient - He knew beforehand that a pandemic is coming
God is Omnipotent - He has the power to prevent or stop the crisis
God is Omnipresent - He is everywhere and very much and ultimately in control

Bottomline: God sometimes allows satan and his agents (including humans) to have their way so long it serves His good and glorious purpose
Liked and concur

Image123:
The three.
God, because He permitted it.
Satan, because it's his job to steal kill and destroy. That's basically what coronavirus is doing.
Man, because the love of money is the root of all evil. For pecuniary gains, some men have been used of the devil to fester this.
Liked and concur

Everything created by God can be perverted, misused and/or abused by Man and the Devil

1 Like

Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by johnw47: 1:55am On Apr 26, 2020
finalboss:


If you don't have something meaningful to say just read and move on.

he did have, now read
and move on

1 Like

Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by ogawriter(m): 4:53am On Apr 26, 2020
Lets leave God and the devil out of this one.

This pandemic was caused by the actions of man.

We can blame God or the devil for a natural disaster like tsunami or an earth quake.

But in this case, we humans are to blame here.

First blame the Chinese for their love for wild meat, and the WHO for not alerting the world in time to the immiment danger.

Then blame the govt of Nigeria for not acting quickly to prevent the spread in the country.

Leave God and devil out of this one, I repeat we humans are to blame.

2 Likes

Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Dtruthspeaker: 5:15am On Apr 26, 2020
Image123:
The three.
God, because He permitted it.
.

If a thing is prohibited by Law can it still be permitted?
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Dtruthspeaker: 5:33am On Apr 26, 2020
Op, you have still not disclose your own position for I cannot tell if you are holding God responsible and trying to convict Him or you are going elsewhere.

But to cut your trip (I hope) and remove the responsibility you may have placed on God, I therefore ask, has God not already moved or to speak clearly, has He not responded already?

Did He not Create Courts? And Does He not Have His Own Court which shall be convened at His Own Time?

Does He have an Obligation or Duty to Respond in the way and manner you so wish him to? Or shall He not have the Right to Respond in any way and manner He so Choose, including but not limited to the right to not-respond at all having already responded earlier?

2 Likes

Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by helinues: 5:35am On Apr 26, 2020
Is definitely greediness and selfishness of some heartless men

1 Like

Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by orunto27: 10:08am On Apr 26, 2020
Man as in Obama, Pope Francis Saudi Kingdom. Man is Wicked, Selfish and Satanic. Only God is Good.

1 Like

Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:35am On Apr 26, 2020
OLAADEGBU:


No Chance

God’s Word also teaches us that there is really no such thing as chance. Even the life of a little sparrow is in the hands of God, and nothing happens to that sparrow that’s not under his control.

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. (Matthew 10:29)
All events are ultimately governed by the sovereign will of God. Nothing happens by blind chance.

“The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD” (Proverbs 16:33). Or we could read it this way: Even though we make our own decisions, it’s the Lord alone who determines what happens. How can those two things be true at the same time? But that’s the point—they are!

There’s nothing God doesn’t know about or control. As we are told, “But even the hairs of your head are all numbered” (Matthew 10:30).

The plan of God comprehends and determines all things and events of every kind that come to pass. If this is so, then it must mean that God has determined certain ends, and he has determined everything that leads to those ends. And nothing can or will change that.

For More

Free Agents?

Now at this stage you might be asking about us as human beings and our actions. How could God determine everything including the free actions of free agents? Does that mean there are no voluntary agents or actions? But aren’t humans free agents? Can’t we make our own decisions? What if I decide right now to eat an apple, isn’t that my own decision? Yes it is. But also consider this: “The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; he turns it wherever he will” (Proverbs 21:1).

The King appears to be free to be making his decisions, but God is controlling him as he controls the rivers.

So how can we have a free agent being totally controlled at the same time? Well this means there are things that God has told us about himself and this world that our finite minds just cannot reconcile. This is called an antinomy. This means that it’s a position in which we are given two truths that we cannot fully reconcile as finite human beings.

Our fallible, finite human minds can’t reconcile the fact that God tells us that there’s an interrelationship between all events leading to the end God has determined, which of necessity includes the actions of free agents.

It’s that relationship between God’s sovereignty and man’s reasonability that we see all through Scripture. Only God can bring them together as the Scripture teaches us that “it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13).

Now if this is so, then it also means the sinful actions of men come under this decree. Scripture teaches this truth. Consider the following examples:

This Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. (Acts 2:23)

For truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. (Acts 4:27–28)

So it was not you who sent me here, but God. He has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt. (Genesis 45:8)

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. (Genesis 50:20)

WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT GOD IS NEVER THE CAUSE OF SIN.

These illustrate that even the sinful actions of men are in the hands of God. But we must understand that God is never the cause of sin.

For More
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by UceeGod(m): 12:34pm On Apr 26, 2020
.
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by UceeGod(m): 12:35pm On Apr 26, 2020
OLAADEGBU:


Free Agents?

Now at this stage you might be asking about us as human beings and our actions. How could God determine everything including the free actions of free agents? Does that mean there are no voluntary agents or actions? But aren’t humans free agents? Can’t we make our own decisions? What if I decide right now to eat an apple, isn’t that my own decision? Yes it is. But also consider this: “The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; he turns it wherever he will” (Proverbs 21:1).

The King appears to be free to be making his decisions, but God is controlling him as he controls the rivers.

So how can we have a free agent being totally controlled at the same time? Well this means there are things that God has told us about himself and this world that our finite minds just cannot reconcile. This is called an antinomy. This means that it’s a position in which we are given two truths that we cannot fully reconcile as finite human beings.

Our fallible, finite human minds can’t reconcile the fact that God tells us that there’s an interrelationship between all events leading to the end God has determined, which of necessity includes the actions of free agents.

It’s that relationship between God’s sovereignty and man’s reasonability that we see all through Scripture. Only God can bring them together as the Scripture teaches us that “it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13).

Now if this is so, then it also means the sinful actions of men come under this decree. Scripture teaches this truth. Consider the following examples:

This Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. (Acts 2:23)
For truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. (Acts 4:27–28)

So it was not you who sent me here, but God. He has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt. (Genesis 45:8)

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. (Genesis 50:20)

WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT GOD IS NEVER THE CAUSE OF SIN.

These illustrate that even the sinful actions of men are in the hands of God. But we must understand that God is never the cause of sin.

For More

God bless you tremendously OP for this exposition. This is the bitter TRUTH open theists find difficult to swallow. They'll rather twist biblical passages to please their audience than teach biblical truth.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:47pm On Apr 26, 2020
OLAADEGBU:


Free Agents?

Now at this stage you might be asking about us as human beings and our actions. How could God determine everything including the free actions of free agents? Does that mean there are no voluntary agents or actions? But aren’t humans free agents? Can’t we make our own decisions? What if I decide right now to eat an apple, isn’t that my own decision? Yes it is. But also consider this: “The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; he turns it wherever he will” (Proverbs 21:1).

The King appears to be free to be making his decisions, but God is controlling him as he controls the rivers.

So how can we have a free agent being totally controlled at the same time? Well this means there are things that God has told us about himself and this world that our finite minds just cannot reconcile. This is called an antinomy. This means that it’s a position in which we are given two truths that we cannot fully reconcile as finite human beings.

Our fallible, finite human minds can’t reconcile the fact that God tells us that there’s an interrelationship between all events leading to the end God has determined, which of necessity includes the actions of free agents.

It’s that relationship between God’s sovereignty and man’s reasonability that we see all through Scripture. Only God can bring them together as the Scripture teaches us that “it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13).

Now if this is so, then it also means the sinful actions of men come under this decree. Scripture teaches this truth. Consider the following examples:

This Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. (Acts 2:23)

For truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. (Acts 4:27–28)

So it was not you who sent me here, but God. He has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt. (Genesis 45:8)

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. (Genesis 50:20)

WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT GOD IS NEVER THE CAUSE OF SIN.

These illustrate that even the sinful actions of men are in the hands of God. But we must understand that God is never the cause of sin.

For More

The Struggle Is Not New

Habakkuk understood that the Lord in his omniscience sees all things good and evil, but that he does not look upon the sins of men with pleasure and approval. “You who are of purer eyes than to see evil and cannot look at wrong” (Habakkuk 1:13).

But he struggled with reconciling God’s purity and holiness and understanding his justice in permitting the sinful acts of men and what they did to God’s people, but all as a part of fulfilling God’s eternal plan.

We must understand that though we as fallible humans can’t reconcile these (just as the prophet agonized over), nonetheless we must accept there will one day be an ultimate reconciliation when we are all with the Lord in glory. At the present time, we “see in a mirror dimly” (1 Corinthians 13:12).

Let me emphasize again¬—God is never the cause of sin. God’s Word teaches “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am being tempted by God,’ for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one” (James 1:13).

Also, in Romans 5:12 we read, “Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned” .

It’s important to understand that God is not responsible for sin, we are! We sinned in Adam. So why did God decree to permit sin then? Well the answer is we just don’t know.

So though we can’t fully reconcile it, the decrees of God do not deny the existence of free agents and their sinful actions, and yet though God has given us this freedom, he is sovereign over it all so that what he has decreed comes to pass. Now at this stage, I can hear someone saying, “But how can God decree everything and yet hold us as humans responsible for our actions? God seems to be unjust and unfair. How can he do this?”

Ah, but God knew we would ask that question. And he has given us his answer:

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honourable use and another for dishonourable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles. (Romans 9:19–24)
We cannot grasp the ultimate working of God’s mind. As we read in Daniel:

All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?” (Daniel 4:35)

The point is that all the decrees of God are unconditional and sovereign. In no way are God’s decrees dependent in any sense on what humans might or might not do. They’re only dependent on God’s will and purpose. At the same time, he works through the free actions of men to bring to pass that which he has determined.

While we live bound by time on this earth, we cannot understand this but must accept it.

For More
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by madegreatbygrace(m): 9:55pm On Apr 26, 2020
[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=88690164][b]Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man, Or The Devil?



The writer started well I must say but I disagree on the aspect of God’s sovereignty. It’s true that God can do all things but He won’t do all things, as a matter of principle. For example, God can not override the will of a man. So, in that sense He’s not sovereign.

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”
~‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭NKJV

It says here that man must walk in all that God has prepared for him‬‬ before the foundation of the world, for that man to fulfill destiny. If this man fails to do this, then he’ll not fulfill destiny because the destiny of man is not cast in stones. He must take responsibility.

Myles Munroe once said that the most fertile place on earth is the burial ground or cemetery because it contains the highest deposit of unfulfilled dreams and destiny. So this means it is not everyone that fulfills destiny. God can not do anything about it because man fails to take responsibility, and as a matter of principle, God will not override this man’s will. Thus, because God can not do anything about it, then He’s not sovereign.

Second, satan doesn’t need to take permission from God to perpetuate evil on earth- he already has the authority.

“We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭5:19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


People erroneously use Job 1:12 to support this false belief.


“And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person. ” So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.”
~‭‭Job‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


Here, God was merely stating the obvious. Essentially, God was telling satan, “You don’t need my permission, you already have the power/authority.

When we read the first chapter of Job, we usually fail to take into consideration two important aspects of satan.That satan is a:

a. thief
b.liar

A thief doesn’t need permission to steal. The day a thief asks for permission to steal is the day he ceases being a thief.

The devil is called the father of lies in the Bible. He’s therefore incapable of telling the truth. The only truth he tells is half-truth! As a result, you can’t build a doctrine on what satan says. Moreover, it’s written in a certain place.

“Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?”
‭‭~II Corinthians‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So what fellowship has light (God) with darkness (satan) such that the two of them will sit in a place and hold discussion about how to run the world. How pathetic that we’ve now relegated God to the same level as satan.

Have you not read that satan has been banished from heaven and so he no longer has access to the throne of God.

“So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.”
~‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:9-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Image123(m): 1:32am On Apr 27, 2020
Dtruthspeaker:


If a thing is prohibited by Law can it still be permitted?

Yes. God prohibits sin but permits you to sin instead of killing you.
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Nobody: 7:32am On Apr 27, 2020
Dtruthspeaker:


If a thing is prohibited by Law can it still be permitted?

God didn't permit Adam's descendants to continue doing evil.

According to his standard each agent is free to make his choice, but before then he will show that he is God(one who knew best regarding right and wrong) by telling us which one to choose. Genesis 2:17;4:6-7
What most take as permission today is as a result of our condition, from God's viewpoint all fleshy creatures are dead already because Adam has sold us to sin which will eventually lead to oldage, sickness and finally death. Romans 5:12

The reason why most sinners are still alive is because God wants to know who is willing to accept counseling so that the privilege to live forever will be granted to such ones. That's why the Bible referred to the opportunity we all have as sinners GRACE or UNDESERVED KINDNESS! Psalms 103:11-15

Ordinarily we're all dead before God, but all those who willingly subject themselves to God's righteous standards are saying by the actions "we are deeply sorry for what our first parents (Adam and Eve) did, if we could have the privilege to be there that day we won't have joined in disobeying God"

That's why God promised to train us and sustain us for 1,000 years to become perfect like Adam and Eve, then Satan who had been locked up during the 1,000 years will be released to deceive us for the final test, by then Jesus' blood has done it's work by removing unwarranted death, whoever follows Satan that time will die not because of Adamic sin anymore but because he/she willingly chose to follow Satan! Revelations 20:13

So after many have made their choice God will then exercise his authority fully as the impartial judge to destroy all evildoers at a go {Revelation 20:11-15} afterwards Satan will be no more and there won't anyone misleading anyone again, at that time whoever chose to do evil will die at the spot of his evildoing.

For now God views all Adam's descendants as walking corpse, that's why Jesus referred to all those who failed to make use of the opportunity of being Christians as dead! Luke 9:60 compare to Revelations 20:5
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Dtruthspeaker: 8:18am On Apr 27, 2020
Image123:


Yes. God prohibits sin but permits you to sin instead of killing you.

Ah brother don't ridicule yourself, even now the obvious answer is before you for your governments have prohibited movement because of Coro but many have been prosecuted (judged) and convicted because they Disobeyed the law.

Once a thing is prohibited, there is usually a punishment and if a thing is permitted, God has NEVER punished that which He permitted.
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Dtruthspeaker: 8:46am On Apr 27, 2020
Maximus69:


God didn't permit Adam's descendants to continue doing evil.

According to his standard each agent is free to make his choice, but before then he will show that he is God(one who knew best regarding right and wrong) by telling us which one to choose. Genesis 2:17;4:6-7
What most take as permission today is as a result of our condition, from God's viewpoint all fleshy creatures are dead already because Adam has sold us to sin which will eventually lead to oldage, sickness and finally death. Romans 5:12

The reason why most sinners are still alive is because God wants to know who is willing to accept counseling so that the privilege to live forever will be granted to such ones. That's why the Bible referred to the opportunity we all have as sinners GRACE or UNDESERVED KINDNESS! Psalms 103:11-15

Ordinarily we're all dead before God, but all those who willingly subject themselves to God's righteous standards are saying by the actions "we are deeply sorry for what our first parents (Adam and Eve) did, if we could have the privilege to be there that day we won't have joined in disobeying God"

That's why God promised to train us and sustain us for 1,000 years to become perfect like Adam and Eve, then Satan who had been locked up during the 1,000 years will be released to deceive us for the final test, by then Jesus' blood has done it's work by removing unwarranted death, whoever follows Satan that time will die not because of Adamic sin anymore but because he/she willingly chose to follow Satan! Revelations 20:13

So after many have made their choice God will then exercise his authority fully as the impartial judge to destroy all evildoers at a go {Revelation 20:11-15} afterwards Satan will be no more and there won't anyone misleading anyone again, at that time whoever chose to do evil will die at the spot of his evildoing.

For now God views all Adam's descendants as walking corpse, that's why Jesus referred to all those who failed to make use of the opportunity of being Christians as dead! Luke 9:60 compare to Revelations 20:5

I understand your view but do you not see that Adam's offence (sin) is not like his descendants offence e.g wickedness/killing etc? In appearance Adam only committed 1 offence that is Disobedience!

The question is, what did the fruit do to Adam and of course, his descendants thereafter?

We know the answer is that man now knew good and evil, the effect of it, we now understand, but the question still remains, what did the fruit do to Adam? For everything changed after the eating, what are those things?

My own simple answer to all these questions is that Adam's Natural and. Original Settings which God made, CHANGED! Like a AIDS, EBOLA and all the Deadly Hereditary Diseases in the body.

And the Death of man was in the taking in of Evil, for Evil, like poison, is capable of Destroying the whole, and like a little dirt contaminates the whole drinking bottle.

Evil destroys the whole and would leave nothing undestroyed if left unchecked and unattached!

Unfortunately no man can remove that Evil App from our settings, as I really want to be rid of that great wicked App, I hate it and I don't want it at all. But for now I will continue utilising the recommendations of the Bible in quarantining the effects of the App.
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Dtruthspeaker: 9:08am On Apr 27, 2020
Maximus69:


According to his standard each agent is free to make his choice, but before then he will show that he is God(one who knew best regarding right and wrong) by telling us which one to choose. Genesis 2:17;4:6-7
What most take as permission today is as a result of our condition, from God's viewpoint all fleshy creatures are dead already because Adam has sold us to sin which will eventually lead to oldage, sickness and finally death. Romans 5:12

The reason why most sinners are still alive is because God wants to know who is willing to accept counseling so that the privilege to live forever will be granted to such ones. That's why the Bible referred to the opportunity we all have as sinners GRACE or UNDESERVED KINDNESS! Psalms 103:11-15

Ordinarily we're all dead before God, but all those who willingly subject themselves to God's righteous standards are saying by the actions "we are deeply sorry for what our first parents (Adam and Eve) did, if we could have the privilege to be there that day we won't have joined in disobeying God"


Ah ah! Do you not see the goodness of God in that even though we have eaten poison He has not allowed it to kill us (Like Sniper) but we can Choose and Do what we help us Live or choose and do what will make us Die?

God has hung Death for our sakes (Grace) for us to freely Choose to Live or to Die. I Choose to Live Everytime!
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Nobody: 9:09am On Apr 27, 2020
Dtruthspeaker:


I understand your view but do you not see that Adam's offence (sin) is not like his descendants offence e.g wickedness/killing etc? In appearance Adam only committed 1 offence that is Disobedience!

The question is, what did the fruit do to Adam and of course, his descendants thereafter?

We know the answer is that man now knew good and evil, the effect of it, we now understand, but the question still remains, what did the fruit do to Adam? For everything changed after the eating, what are those things?

My own simple answer to all these questions is that Adam's Natural and. Original Settings which God made, CHANGED! Like a AIDS, EBOLA and all the Deadly Hereditary Diseases in the body.

And the Death of man was in the taking in of Evil, for Evil, like poison, is capable of Destroying the whole, and like a little dirt contaminates the whole drinking bottle.

Evil destroys the whole and would leave nothing undestroyed if left alone.

Everything you said is correct except one thing Sir!

Adam's sin is far more than disobedience!

That single act posed all of us to danger.

How?

Don't forget that Adam is the first intelligent fleshy creatures, and due to this he is a direct son of God (in the flesh), the responsibility to train all his descendants to become God fearing solely rest on his shoulder, so after Adam and Eve has made their decision to alienate themselves from their Creator (God and Father), who will teach Adam's descendants how to live a holy life? embarassed

So in other words, all the evil ever committed on this planet is the result of that single act of Adam!

Otherwise killing, stealing and other bad things will not come to mind, whoever choose to do so amongst Adam's descendants would have been on his/her own and it won't be difficult to single out such ones for death!

As regards knowing good and evil, it was a parable Sir!

No man can distinguish between good and evil if we don't stick to divine guidance!

Note what a man called Jesus "Good teacher", is it that all other teachers in Israel never wanted to be good? Certainly not! It was because Jesus never alienate himself from God unlike his fleshy counterpart Adam! 1Corinthian 15:45 compare to John 8:28

So what Adam and Eve knew that day wasn't good and bad really, but like a child demanding freedom from his parents prematurely. Of course as a free agent he'll claim he knows how to handle situation all by himself. We are all Witnesses of the result of their bad decision that day! Jeremiah 10:23 smiley
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Dtruthspeaker: 9:40am On Apr 27, 2020
Maximus69:


Everything you said is correct except one thing Sir!

Adam's sin is far more than disobedience!

That single act posed all of us to danger.

How?

Don't forget that Adam is the first intelligent fleshy creatures, and due to this he is a direct son of God (in the flesh), the responsibility to train all his descendants to become God fearing solely rest on his shoulder, so after Adam and Eve has made their decision to alienate themselves from their Creator (God and Father), who will teach Adam's descendants how to live a holy life? embarassed

So in other words, all the evil ever committed on this planet is the result of that single act of Adam!

smiley

It is settled that Adam committed a Very Grevious Offence an offence which is hereditary, and to think that he only had children after the offence, but God intervened for us to come after.

After God's intervention, no one can be right to condemn and punish him again, for God Himself had punished him already and therefore after serving his punishment, he is free. But that is for Adam.

The question therefore is are we not all Adam-ing and even more? Adam's own crime was Disobedience Alone, are we not doing more? Like Adam, shall we not be responsible for that which we do? Has blaming, another person ever removed us from punishment for our doing?

Adam has done his own and was judged for it, we are doing ours and we shall also be judged for them, as is written "those who live by the Law shall be judged by the Law and those who live beyond Law shall Judged by beyond the Law Romans 2:12
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Dtruthspeaker: 9:45am On Apr 27, 2020
Maximus69:


No man can distinguish between good and evil if we don't stick to divine guidance!

Note what a man called Jesus "Good teacher", is it that all other teachers in Israel never wanted to be good? Certainly not! It was because Jesus never alienate himself from God unlike his fleshy counterpart Adam! 1Corinthian 15:45 compare to John 8:28

So what Adam and Eve knew that day wasn't good and bad really, but like a child demanding freedom from his parents prematurely. Of course as a free agent he'll claim he knows how to handle situation all by himself. We are all Witnesses of the result of their bad decision that day! Jeremiah 10:23 smiley

Its not true that we do not know good and evil, we al know them very well, but of them both which of them is most prevalent? Is it not Evil and have we not seen that the decision to do either of them come from the soul? Have we no firstt imagined a thing and done then?

That's what makes us liable. But God has also revealed the secret of them all which is "which one of them do we love and hate? As is written "no man can serve 2 masters, you MUST love one and hate the other". Mathew 6:24

Also is it severally written, "and God saw... that the EVERY Imagination... was Evil Continually. Genesis 6:5, Mathew 15:19
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Nobody: 10:13am On Apr 27, 2020
Dtruthspeaker:


It is settled that Adam committed a Very Grevious Offence an offence which is hereditary, and to think that he only had children after the offence, but God intervened for us to come after.

After God's intervention, no one can be right to condemn and punish him again, for God Himself had punished him already and therefore after serving his punishment, he is free. But that is for Adam.

The question therefore is are we not all Adam-ing and even more? Adam's own crime was Disobedience Alone, are we not doing more? Like Adam, shall we not be responsible for that which we do? Has blaming, another person ever removed us from punishment for our doing?

Adam has done his own and was judged for it, we are doing ours and we shall also be judged for them, as is written "those who live by the Law shall be judged by the Law and those who live beyond Law shall Judged by beyond the Law Romans 2:12



Our own wrongdoing is far different from that of Adam my friend! smiley

We have more than a thousand reason to steal, cheat, commit murder, fornicate, practice witchcraft and so many other evil things! Why? Because we have circumstances beyond our control that will pressure us into committing evil.

But Adam had no reason to disobey God!

Today can you call God and get what you need instantly?

Well for your information, Adam need not even call God at all because everything he needed was at his fingertips.

He is the richest man who ever lived, no sickness can pressure him into demanding for the help of spiritists because he had a perfect body, unlike you and i that had so many things that could pressure us into doing what's wrong!

No wonder Jesus had pity on a criminal who at the point of death decided to start obeying Jesus as King! Luke 23:39-43

That thief will have a thousand and one reason for stealing and breaking into people's homes! smiley
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Nobody: 10:36am On Apr 27, 2020
Dtruthspeaker:


Its not true that we do not know good and evil, we al know them very well, but of them both which of them is most prevalent? Is it not Evil and have we not seen that the decision to do either of them come from the soul? Have we no firstt imagined a thing and done then?

That's what makes us liable. But God has also revealed the secret of them all which is "which one of them do we love and hate? As is written "no man can serve 2 masters, you MUST love one and hate the other". Mathew 6:24

Also is it severally written, "and God saw... that the EVERY Imagination... was Evil Continually. Genesis 6:5, Mathew 15:19

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my friend!

Evil is not that easily resistable.

There is a powerful unseen spirit being (Satan) behind the scene, he has created so much difficult situations and enticing offers that will draw us into committing the worst blunder!

For instance, as a graduate with first class, your parents spent their last penny to see you through school then you searched for a job but you can't secure one, then you got a security job in a rich man's mansion only for the man's young mistress to start demanding for sex from you!

If you decline her offer you can loose your job, she can even accuse you of making advances at her, to crown it all she began treating you well behind her husband and planning with you to kill the rich old man so that both of you can inherit his wealth! smiley

Please tell me the name of Pastor, Imam, Babalawo, relation or friend that will tell you to decline such offer! Then go back to our question again, do people truly know how to distinguish between good and evil?"
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Dtruthspeaker: 10:47am On Apr 27, 2020
Maximus69:


Our own wrongdoing is far different from that of Adam my friend! smiley

We have more than a thousand reason to steal, cheat, commit murder, fornicate, practice witchcraft and so many other evil things! Why? Because we have circumstances beyond our control that will pressure us into committing evil.

But Adam had no reason to disobey God!

Today can you call God and get what you need instantly?

Well for your information, Adam need not even call God at all because everything he needed was at his fingertips.

He is the richest man who ever lived, no sickness can pressure him into demanding for the help of spiritists because he had a perfect body, unlike you and i that had so many things that could pressure us into doing what's wrong!

No wonder Jesus had pity on a criminal who at the point of death decided to start obeying Jesus as King! Luke 23:39-43

That thief will have a thousand and one reason for stealing and breaking into people's homes! smiley

No we don't for the Lord God suspended the gravity of Adam's offence and has left it for each one of us to freely Choose our own way and destination (destiny); option 1) Choose Life Eternal (as was His plan for Adam and his Descendants in the beginning) or 2) Choose Death Eternal (on the the ground that we now have an Evil App running in our system (Soul) which Must Destroy our soul, and God Must Destroy All that is Destroyed and useless as we do eg saltless salt, tree wey no dey bear fruit- all of Must and shall be turned to Dust). Saltless salt is thrown into the dust and becometh dust; fruitless trees are cut down, burnt and they turn into dust.
Re: Who Is Responsible For The Coronavirus? God, Man Or The Devil by Dtruthspeaker: 11:44am On Apr 27, 2020
Maximus69:


Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my friend!

Evil is not that easily resistable.

There is a powerful unseen spirit being (Satan) behind the scene, he has created so much difficult situations and enticing offers that will draw us into committing the worst blunder!

For instance, as a graduate with first class, your parents spent their last penny to see you through school then you searched for a job but you can't secure one, then you got a security job in a rich man's mansion only for the man's young mistress to start demanding for sex from you!

If you decline her offer you can loose your job, she can even accuse you of making advances at her, to crown it all she began treating you well behind her husband and planning with you to kill the rich old man so that both of you can inherit his wealth! smiley

Please tell me the name of Pastor, Imam, Babalawo, relation or friend that will tell you to decline such offer! Then go back to our question again, do people truly know how to distinguish between good and evil?"


grin I understand why you would say that But (and this where the separation and freedom from evil is) if you TRULY want to be free of the power of All Evil, it lies in the ERNEST and CONTINUOUS DOING OF ANY AND ALL OF THE COMMANDMENTS of God. Check them out and see if any of those Commandments are not good, and if they are good, you have a list of goods you can do. And this on the one hand

On the other, since you know you do wrong, check the lists of all the wrongs that you do and again with All Wakefulness and Consiousness, Do not Do them.

And thirdly, you must Always Remember that You Need Help, the very Help of Christ, Who is already in You and therefore you have Help for it is written and it is "cut off from me, ye can do Nothing". John 15;5

All these and more ( grin sorry to increase your burden but this is true) must be done Ernestly, and Truthfully, knowing that Life depends on its perfection and severance, with much prayer and even mucher action.

It's this hard because you are deep in evil and Satan would not let you go like pharoah but you are going to fight him yourself and you are going to call on Christ to join you in fighting.

And this is another thing I have seen, that it is when God has seen that you are Truly Fighting the satan, then He'll Send the Calvary.

But the fight is not over until, first you are separated from evil, then Judgement was given for you, that you are free of evil and therefore granted Eternal Life, by the sparing of your Life.

And this is only going to happen, Only After The Judgement of the World!

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