[quote author=TMKsouth post=89322588]

Then don't use the word "illiterates", it doesn't serve your purpose.[/quote

LOL...I see you have refused to counter your compatriots critique on the issue...

Austine1212:


SA has literacy level of 94%

Nigeria around 60%

Believe me it's not a competition as both countries are in big trouble due to a lack of literacy. Those figures are bogus. Just like covid stats. You get graduates that cannot complete a sentence with perfect spelling.

The most important aspect of learning is critical thinking and that is missing in a large mass of people on both countries. Hence like I said earlier, it is clear the ANC has not delivered since handover. Clearly the people should demand the clique that has enriched themselves to move aside. What do they do, chase easy targets like immigrants. In Nigeria the PDP and APC have failed wholly. The masses should remove them, what do they do, pick on easy targets like a child stealing food, a woman wearing western clothes etc..

[quote author=sayisayi post=89371128][/quote]

Dude u coming to SA and only experiencing illiterates is a reflection of the company you keep. I don't move around in those circles so I won't debate u on this one. You know best about SA illerates. YOU WIN.

Minxie:


I've come to realise that it's not hate or anti-black sentiment. It's just people don't know enough about each other. Trust me, I've received some very hateful comments from black people about my race. and some very ignorant comments as well. I don't take it seriously because I know we only receive negative news about each other so we have that idea of each other. Anyway, just because a few people make some ignorant and racist statements, doesnt mean we are all like that. You yourself know the things people say about coloureds... it's offensive too. Very. But i know it's because nobody really knows much about our culture. There is a BIG culture clash but it doesn't mean we don't like black people. Apartheid made sure to separate the two races and we are now just living with the consequences of it.

Nah, its more than that Minxie, I've been to Cape Town, coloureds over there man are something else, very different the ones from Johannesburg! from the aunty selling at a store, for example, there's something weird at the Cape and it's more than just a culture clash, its an ingrained superiority from the Apartheid times, the "at least we aren't them mentality" Granted those blacks might have sent something bad towards you but you'll agree that on the whole there's no "anti- coloured" sentiment from blacks similar to what you'll find in Cape Town, I mean come on the are even groups like " Gatvol Capetonian" that lay al the ills of coloured people at the feet of black people . at cape town coloured people seem to be gatekeepers of white privilege from what I've seen

IronGalaxy:
Nah, its more than that Minxie, I've been to Cape Town, coloureds over there man are something else, very different the ones from Johannesburg! from the aunty selling at a store, for example, there's something weird at the Cape and it's more than just a culture clash, its an ingrained superiority from the Apartheid times, the "at least we aren't them mentality" Granted those blacks might have sent something bad towards you but you'll agree that on the whole there's no "anti- coloured" sentiment from blacks similar to what you'll find in Cape Town, I mean come on the are even groups like " Gatvol Capetonian" that lay al the ills of coloured people at the feet of black people . at cape town coloured people seem to be gatekeepers of white privilege from what I've seen

Those gatvol capetonian people also annoy the rest of us. I think when it comes to Cape Town a lot of coloureds are territorial. They are worried that black and white will take what's theirs. It was taken during apartheid and they are worried that it will be taken now by the new government. It's obviously not the case but many coloured people see it that way. They're not anti-black, they just don't want their territory to be taken away from them again. They don't even have their land back yet and already government is making areas available for informal settlements. That's the worry of most coloureds in the flats. The coloureds are just afraid that they will be marginalized. You'll often hear coloureds say that first we weren't white enough and now we aren't black enough. They are just scared of being oppressed again. Other than that, and a few cultural things, coloureds have a good relationship with black people. I just wish there was more interaction between the two. I think both sides need to step out of their comfort zones. I think most coloureds don't like doing things outside their environment. They think the Western Cape is where the world ends. I know there is a difference between coloureds from the Western Cape and Gauteng. Remember that in cape Town the coloureds are just clinging very hard to what they once had. It's sad when you visit the Western Cape and hear of coloureds who were kicked out of what's now expensive places.
You should really engage with coloureds down here more often. We are very gatvol of the white privilege... you have to work twice as hard just to be recognized as normal when a white person enters a job and gets promoted within 6 months easily... ai

TMKsouth:


Dude u coming to SA and only experiencing illiterates is a reflection of the company you keep. I don't move around in those circles so I won't debate u on this one. You know best about SA illerates. YOU WIN.

No sir, you just resorted to option 2 of those with low IQ. I provided facts and asked you to counter, you resorted to weak satire and mis-spelling. I have been to over 25 countries in Africa and speak from experience. You have just shown yourself to be as myopic and as insular as a lot of S.Africans that have NO understanding of the rest of the continent. One X

sayisayi:


No sir, you just resorted to option 2 of those with low IQ. I provided facts and asked you to counter, you resorted to name calling and mis-spelling. I have been to over 25 countries in Africa and speak from experience. You have just shown yourself to be as myopic and as insular as a lot of S.Africans that have NO understanding of the rest of the continent. One X

I think there seems to be a misunderstanding between the two of you.

however, back to your earlier point, i understand what you mean about the critical thinking of people. Ive noticed it too and yes, we need to address it. It's a little difficult though because what system do we use to encourage critical thinking at Primary and high school level? I teach in China and they have the same problem. My cousin teaches in Saudi Arabia and they have the same problem. Critical thinking is way different from literacy. Luckily the government has identified this problem and are working on it, slowly but surely the curriculum is changing. hopefully in the next 20-30 years we will have more critical thinkers on the continent

Minxie:


Those gatvol capetonian people also annoy the rest of us. I think when it comes to Cape Town a lot of coloureds are territorial. They are worried that black and white will take what's theirs. It was taken during apartheid and they are worried that it will be taken now by the new government. It's obviously not the case but many coloured people see it that way. They're not anti-black, they just don't want their territory to be taken away from them again. They don't even have their land back yet and already government is making areas available for informal settlements. That's the worry of most coloureds in the flats. The coloureds are just afraid that they will be marginalized. You'll often hear coloureds say that first we weren't white enough and now we aren't black enough. They are just scared of being oppressed again. Other than that, and a few cultural things, coloureds have a good relationship with black people. I just wish there was more interaction between the two. I think both sides need to step out of their comfort zones. I think most coloureds don't like doing things outside their environment. They think the Western Cape is where the world ends. I know there is a difference between coloureds from the Western Cape and Gauteng. Remember that in cape Town the coloureds are just clinging very hard to what they once had. It's sad when you visit the Western Cape and hear of coloureds who were kicked out of what's now expensive places.
You should really engage with coloureds down here more often. We are very gatvol of the white privilege... you have to work twice as hard just to be recognized as normal when a white person enters a job and gets promoted within 6 months easily... ai

I'm still not convinced. I actually do have coloured friends/ colleagues which is why when I got to Cape Town there difference between the two coloured groups from the two respective cities was so stark I couldn't believe. There can't be a culture clash between blacks and coloureds because our lifestyles are too similar, I was born in Soweto and there coloureds in Soweto too in places like Noordgesig, Kliptown etc I don't even feel out of place in those places but Cape Town... As much as you say Cape Town coloureds are fed up with white privilege it's them who still keep voting the toxic DA in power , you guys align with whites too much over there

IronGalaxy:
I'm still not convinced. I actually do have coloured friends/ colleagues which is why when I got to Cape Town there difference between the two coloured groups from the two respective cities was so stark I couldn't believe. There can't be a culture clash between blacks and coloureds because our lifestyles are too similar, I was born in Soweto and there coloureds in Soweto too in places like Noordgesig, Kliptown etc I don't even feel out of place in those places but Cape Town... As much as you say Cape Town coloureds are fed up with white privilege it's them who still keep voting the toxic DA in power , you guys align with whites too much over there

That's the mistake you make. Coloureds don't vote for skin or race. They vote for who delivers. so at some point they saw the ANC wasn't delivering so then they switched to DA. And now they see the DA isn't delivering so they will most likely switch back to ANC or whoever offers the best alternative. Whoever has a plan for the cape flats and giving back the properties in cape town, that party will get the vote. I can assure you that coloureds will NOT vote for a white person just because he/she is white. We know them too well. Please do some research into the local elections in the Western Cape and get opinions from people on the ground. It will help you to get to know us Also yes, cape Town coloureds have a superiority complex. Hulle hou vi hulle lekka. Lol we always say that about them. However, it's not because of race but rather because they think cape Town is the best thing since sliced bread. Back then if you stayed in cape Town you were considered as fancy. We often say: "jy hou vi jo wit" which is an insult Lol. But really, I'd love to change your mind about us. Next time you come to cape town, i will personally show you around and invite you to some yard parties and make you feel right at home. Because it is your home. Sorry for the crappy experience you had last time

sayisayi:


No sir, you just resorted to option 2 of those with low IQ. I provided facts and asked you to counter, you resorted to weak satire and mis-spelling. I have been to over 25 countries in Africa and speak from experience. You have just shown yourself to be as myopic and as insular as a lot of S.Africans that have NO understanding of the rest of the continent. One X

I've spent more years than u living in SA while you zigzagged across 25 African countries. So I think I'm a better judge of my country than u are, don't u think?!

U speak of providing me with facts - I laugh in Xhosa (XX@$!!). I'm the one who informed u about SA's 95% literacy rate (FACT). In response you painted a biased and gloomy scenario where u failed to meet a single intelligent person on your travels to South Africa.

So just admit you hate SA and move along - the sun will still rise tomorrow. Im bored with you now.

sayisayi:


Believe me it's not a competition as both countries are in big trouble due to a lack of literacy. Those figures are bogus. Just like covid stats. You get graduates that cannot complete a sentence with perfect spelling.

The most important aspect of learning is critical thinking and that is missing in a large mass of people on both countries. Hence like I said earlier, it is clear the ANC has not delivered since handover. Clearly the people should demand the clique that has enriched themselves to move aside. What do they do, chase easy targets like immigrants. In Nigeria the PDP and APC have failed wholly. The masses should remove them, what do they do, pick on easy targets like a child stealing food, a woman wearing western clothes etc..

It was never was

THE SA stats are correct, as they are the most accurate and most transparent 2nd only to singapore

As for Nigeria i don't trust, no media freedom

In terms of SA immigrants, the citizens are forcing ANC to take a stance on it i mean many countries have legislation on it why cant SA have it, we cant be having millions of illegal immigrants, unskilled immigrants who becomes a burden to SA government n citizens

[quote author=TMKsouth post=89375
So just admit you hate SA and move along - the sun will still rise tomorrow. Im bored with you now.[/quote]

I'm only getting started..LOL. Read the article below to get a better understanding of your own country. You're insight is limited. Ignorance is not a defence policy.

Below is a an excerpt from the link I provided earlier. I'm sure you will say the SA journalist is illiterate and only spoke with other illiterates

One cannot but think there is almost a desire by those in charge of our education to keep the majority of the populace illiterate. I am not sure whether the assumption behind this is so that we will not question. If this is the reason, the powers-that-be may be in for a surprise. The unemployment rate, corruption by the elites, unfair distribution of wealth and the frustration at the cost of living are all powder kegs waiting to explode. And there is nothing more dangerous than an explosion by people who have nothing to lose.

Instead of being shocked, it will serve us and our country well to treat illiteracy with the urgency that it deserves, whether it’s creating reading clubs using our unemployed but educated graduates or ensuring every school has a library with books

My friend’s sister marginally passed matric and is now a single mother of two. In a country with almost a third of the population unemployed, she is lucky to have a job as a security guard at a supermarket. But I wonder: will she be able to help her children with their reading and writing since she seemed to struggle herself when I met her those many years ago?

And if she can somehow help, will she have sufficient time to do so while struggling for survival and ensuring her children are fed and clothed?

Austine1212:


It was never was

THE SA stats are correct, as they are the most accurate and most transparent 2nd only to singapore

As for Nigeria i don't trust, no media freedom

In terms of SA immigrants, the citizens are forcing ANC to take a stance on it i mean many countries have legislation on it why cant SA have it, we cant be having millions of illegal immigrants, unskilled immigrants who becomes a burden to SA government n citizens

I hear you. Immigrants always serve the elites as they keep labour costs low, business competitive and profits high. It's the same here in the UK, where immigration issues indirectly fed Brexit. Just as an aside, are the Somali shops, Gupta business family and Mozambican traders a burden to SA society?

sayisayi:


I hear you. Immigrants always serve the elites as they keep labour costs low, business competitive and profits high. It's the same here in the UK, where immigration issues indirectly fed Brexit. Just as an aside, are the Somali shops, Gupta business family and Mozambican traders a burden to SA society?

Yes they are a burden

Austine1212:


Yes they are a burden

How can the Somali shops be a burden when they are providing a service in the community and making a profit?

Similarly is De Beers a burden? Hope you still not drinking the apartheid kool aid where white is right.

sayisayi:


How can the Somali shops be a burden when they are providing a service in the community and making a profit?

Similarly is De Beers a burden? Hope you still not drinking the apartheid kool aid where white is right.

De beers provides jobs, gives bursaries, supports local businesses, builds schools, hospitals, builds roads, pays taxes, etc

De beers is a legit company contributing billions to SA economy.

Somali, Nigerians sells fake goods, drugs, dont pay tax as they operate illegal that's notnot good for the economy

What a funny world. The white man really did destroy South Africa. First they depleted the black population, next they bred a race they call colored in an attempt to outbreed the black owners. This paradox is bewildering. So basically, let me get this straight, a biracial person in South Africa who identifies as black in the North America and Europe the home of your colonial Lords and conquerors is called colored in South Africa? Now, isn't that some fvcked up shit.

The white man really did you guys bad. No racial homogeny, different language, different demographics, different cultures.

Without a hint of ridicule, it would be an aberration to call South Africa a black country, or a truly African country. Heck! Even they named it a rainbow nation. The more black people marry whites and colored in South Africa, the more they outbreed themselves into this melting pot of racial confusion.

I know the white devil did the continent as a whole evil, and for that we remain indignant. But at least here, and by here I mean the rest of Africa, we know where we come from, we know what we look like, we aren't on a mission towards racial suicide. I guess there's a silver lining behind it all after all.

So is it a bad thing for people to attempt to get along? I'm a bit confused with what you're saying...

Also coloured people are not just black and white. I have more malay than I have white or black. I also have more khoisan than I have white or black.

Im really confused by the point that you are making. it's almost like you're trying to say that South Africans are not "pure" or "African" enough because we mix with other races in our country... Leave us be please, it doesn't bother us that we get along or attempt to get along. As long as we get along in our own country (and not run to others because we can't seem to find it in ourselves to try to get along), I don't see why you would have a problem with it.

ucham:
The more black people marry whites and colored in South Africa, the more they outbreed themselves into this melting pot of racial confusion.
.

Hmm... Interesting.

I'm really shocked by this person's reasoning... Interesting indeed

Minxie:


Im really confused by the point that you are making. it's almost like you're trying to say that South Africans are not "pure" or "African" enough because we mix with other races in our country.

Hi Minxie!

For SA we are what we define ourselves - not what others impose on us. We are a Rainbow Nation and are as African as anyone else.

Infact, we led the African narrative through the African Renaissance concept during the Mbeki years and through our current leadership in the AU, G20 and the BRICS.

No other African nation has a louder political voice than SA so don't be rattled by detractors - not that ucham is one. But this SA is not African-enough label has been peddled by Nigeria to gain a permanent UN Security Council seat over us, it's been their strategy.

TMKsouth:


Hi Minxie!

For SA we are what we define ourselves - not what others impose on us. We are a Rainbow Nation and are as African as anyone else.

Infact, we led the African narrative through the African Renaissance concept during the Mbeki years and through our current leadership in the AU, G20 and the BRICS.

No other African nation has a louder political voice than SA so don't be rattled by detractors - not that ucham is one. But this SA is not African-enough label has been peddled by Nigeria to gain a permanent UN Security Council seat over us, it's been their strategy.

You know, it's so strange. It's almost like they're saying that to be African means that you have to have a general intolerance for everything and anything different from you. Which just reaffirms what the rest of the world thinks and says about us. But then again, it would explain the annoying tribal spats here on nairaland... I've always wondered why they struggle to get along on this platform. Now I know why... apparently it's a "purebred" African thing.

Minxie:


You know, it's so strange. It's almost like they're saying that to be African means that you have to have a general intolerance for everything and anything different from you. Which just reaffirms what the rest of the world thinks and says about us. But then again, it would explain the annoying tribal spats here on nairaland... I've always wondered why they struggle to get along on this platform. Now I know why... apparently it's a "purebred" African thing.

I'm black and I don't know any other black SA person that considers coloured people unAfrican - even the ones with Malay ancestry.

Remember when Mbeki asked why people who have been on the continent for over 300 cannot be considered African - or were u still a babatjie back then?

lol no I wasn't a babatjie back then

It's just hard whenever I try to defend the continent and then people say things like this. I probably shouldn't get so invested in the cause... but still man, yoh ! Makes me so upset jinne. Maybe I should just learn to ignore such people.
Oh great master, teach my how to ignore the ignorant ones... Lol you've been doing this a lot longer than me

Minxie:
lol no I wasn't a babatjie back then

It's just hard whenever I try to defend the continent and then people say things like this. I probably shouldn't get so invested in the cause... but still man, yoh ! Makes me so upset jinne. Maybe I should just learn to ignore such people.
Oh great master, teach my how to ignore the ignorant ones... Lol you've been doing this a lot longer than me

Lol Yes student, the secret is to learn that most often speak from ignorance and envy. SA has a lot going for it so that annoys a lot of people - especially if u have built your entire self-worth on being a self-proclaimed Giant of Africa.

Follow these simple rules and you'll experience eternal peace and pleasure everytime a troll comes your way. Wax on, wax off.

thanks

Minxie:
So is it a bad thing for people to attempt to get along? I'm a bit confused with what you're saying...

Also coloured people are not just black and white. I have more malay than I have white or black. I also have more khoisan than I have white or black.

Im really confused by the point that you are making. it's almost like you're trying to say that South Africans are not "pure" or "African" enough because we mix with other races in our country... Leave us be please, it doesn't bother us that we get along or attempt to get along. As long as we get along in our own country (and not run to others because we can't seem to find it in ourselves to try to get along), I don't see why you would have a problem with it.

Tell that to years of apartheid and domination by your white Lords.

I deduce that you are a colored. Going by your history of segregation and insulation from the rest of the populace in South Africa, you've understandably suffered a lot of trauma. It is no wonder your flats and settlements are riddled with violent gangs with a penchant for rape and other abominables.

Khoisans are Africans. No thanks to you, you have almost outbreed them. You have endangered and almost destroyed their cultural heritage.

The land belongs to the blacks, and what your white masters have created is revulsing. I can understand that you are a victim of circumstance, but don't open your mouth to Say you are African. You may be in the text of the word, but not in the true essence of it.

The land you call south Africa is black. Khoisans are black too with their distinct unique features.

The people I pity are the black, small statured, laid back slobs deluding themselves that they still own the land.

TMKsouth:


Hi Minxie!

For SA we are what we define ourselves - not what others impose on us. We are a Rainbow Nation and are as African as anyone else.

Infact, we led the African narrative through the African Renaissance concept during the Mbeki years and through our current leadership in the AU, G20 and the BRICS.

No other African nation has a louder political voice than SA so don't be rattled by detractors - not that ucham is one. But this SA is not African-enough label has been peddled by Nigeria to gain a permanent UN Security Council seat over us, it's been their strategy.

Typical. You consider all your populace African, yet you lazy small statured sloths keep attacking your white Lords. Killing them and collecting their farms.

Your people are known to be remarkably stupid. So it is no wonder you can put on a facade of ease while your cultural heritage is depleted.

Typical Stockholm syndrome. Your oppressors have become your family.

You talk of South Africa as if your presidents since apartheid have done anything. Your country is on a downward spiral. Your white masters are fleeing back to UK, Australia and the Netherlands.

Don't tell me all is well when you still suffer load shedding.

Nigeria has its challenges, yes and we will get over them. But at least having a confused identity and race isn't one of them. In the next 100 years, there be Zero pure black African in South Africa. Way to go sucker!

ucham:


Typical. You consider all your populace African, yet you lazy small statured sloths keep attacking your white Lords. Killing them and collecting their farms.D

Yes, us lazy stupid blacks have turned the country into the poverty capital of the world as well as the Number 1 country for sh1tting out in the bushes (open-air defecation) despite 60 years of independence and incredible oil wealth. Not to mention our fantastic corruption and very low reputation for honesty amongst the people of the world. Everywhere we go we are viewed with suspicion and dislike.

That's why we envy SA thats built the most number of houses for it's people than any other country in the world so that they stop sh1tting out into rat and snake holes. Despite this our jealousy can never allow us to admit SA successes. Rather we wish downfall upon them since they unceremoniously kicked us out of their beautiful country where we were wrecking havoc as per our culture back home in our undisputed sh1thole drug den country.

ucham:


Typical. You consider all your populace African, yet you lazy small statured sloths keep attacking your white Lords. Killing them and collecting their farms.

Your people are known to be remarkably stupid. So it is no wonder you can put on a facade of ease while your cultural heritage is depleted.

Typical Stockholm syndrome. Your oppressors have become your family.

You talk of South Africa as if your presidents since apartheid have done anything. Your country is on a downward spiral. Your white masters are fleeing back to UK, Australia and the Netherlands.

Don't tell me all is well when you still suffer load shedding.

Nigeria has its challenges, yes and we will get over them. But at least having a confused identity and race isn't one of them. In the next 100 years, there be Zero pure black African in South Africa. Way to go sucker!

puhleeze tell me you are not the voice of the rest of Nigeria. Puhleeze tell me that you are the only one with this reasoning. I just can't take it if you tell me that the majority of Nigerian people agree with you. My heart wouldn't be able to get over the shock. I'm just gonna put my faith in the fact that you are the exception and one of the few with this mentality

Minxie:


puhleeze tell me you are not the voice of the rest of Nigeria. Puhleeze tell me that you are the only one with this reasoning. I just can't take it if you tell me that the majority of Nigerian people agree with you. My heart wouldn't be able to get over the shock. I'm just gonna put my faith in the fact that you are the exception and one of the few with this mentality

Most are like this. That's why SA and Nigeria can't get alone even at government level.

Minxie:


You know, it's so strange. It's almost like they're saying that to be African means that you have to have a general intolerance for everything and anything different from you. Which just reaffirms what the rest of the world thinks and says about us. But then again, it would explain the annoying tribal spats here on nairaland... I've always wondered why they struggle to get along on this platform. Now I know why... apparently it's a "purebred" African thing.

Yep, just like the Inkatha v ANC nonsense from the 90's - or the coloured gang murders on the flats or the taxi wars in Durban

The bullshit and behaviour is continental