Being a Pastor or Christian does not exempt you from foundational battles. You need to deal with it now. Until deliverance comes you cannot possess your possession. An unhandled negative family foundation can catch up with you no matter how long it takes. Psalm 11:3. Obadiah 17. Say O Lord deliver me totally from what is be falling me or about to befall me in the name of Jesus Christ. Call +2348034868232.

Smh. So far you are truly in Christ, 1 Cor. 3:11 applies to you: "For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ".

@ OP So, what do you believe?

The only foundational battle anyone could have is ignorance. When that person is educated in that aspect he doesn't know from that point he is delivered.
There is nothing like any spirit manipulating people's destiny.
There is nothing like evil spirit tormenting people, they are all scam.

So, what happens to "If a man is in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things have passed away; all things have become new"? Except you are saying the scriptures are lying (God forbid).

paxonel:
The only foundational battle anyone could have is ignorance. When that person is educated in that aspect he doesn't know from that point he is delivered.
There is nothing like any spirit manipulating people's destiny.
There is nothing like evil spirit tormenting people, they are all scam.

HedwigesMaduro:
So, what happens to "If a man is in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things have passed away; all things have become new"? Except you are saying the scriptures are lying (God forbid).

I understand with the op. Whe might not have used the best terminology. But there's truth in his statement. I've seen minsters demonized and tormented by devils. They pray in tongues , minister to others yet they have to be ministered to sometimes .

petra1:





I understand with the op. Whe might not have used the best terminology. But there's truth in his statement. I've seen minsters demonized and tormented by devils. They pray in tongues , minister to others yet they have to be ministered to sometimes .

what you saw is hoax, it isn't real. I was there before, i even conducted deliverance for people out of ignorance.

See, everything you hear people saying that they were possessed of one spirit or the other is a thing of the mind.
At that moment they were saying this, they were not in their right state of mind i kind prove that to you.

How can a Christian saying he is possessed or tormented by an evil spirit contrary to what scriprure says?

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Only Muslims or people of other religions have not confessed that Jesus is the Christ but only christians do. And non of those delivered in churches who claimed they have evil spirit tormenting them are Muslims or people practicing religions other than Christianity or do you see any Muslim being delivered in churches like mountain of fire and other churches which is known for fake deliverance?

Think!

paxonel:
what you saw is hoax, it isn't real. I was there before, i even conducted deliverance for people out of ignorance.

The people you conducted deliverance for ,were they delivered?

See, everything you hear people saying that they were possessed of one spirit or the other is a thing of the mind.
At that moment they were saying this, they were not in their right state of mind i kind prove that to you.

What took over their mind if not evil spirit

How can a Christian saying he is possessed or tormented by an evil spirit contrary to what scriprure says?

Possession and torment are two different things . A christian cannot be possessed by evil spirit . Possession means ownership . However a christian can be tormented or oppressed by the enemy for several reasons which are open doors

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Can you explain the relevance of the above .

Only Muslims or people of other religions have not confessed that Jesus is the Christ but only christians do. And non of those delivered in churches who claimed they have evil spirit tormenting them are Muslims or people practicing religions other than Christianity or do you see any Muslim being delivered in churches like mountain of fire and other churches which is known for fake deliverance?

Think!

Firstly it s dangerous and wrong to be praying for deliverance for muslims and other uncoverted people. Casting out devil is a part of healing ministry . A man has to be saved before you minister healing or "deliverance to him. Healing is the Chilren bread not for outsiders . If you deliver him ,he may die sepoon because he doesn't have the capacity to maintain his freedom from the devil.

petra1:


The people you conducted deliverance for ,were they delivered?

they ignorantly claimed to be delivered.Like I said, i was ignorant too, so i believe them. but the truth is they never had any evil spirit, one of them specifically said I prayed for him and he was delivered from a financial mess which he was very sure that the root of the problem was attack from his village. but after that, he executed a failed contract with a well known company in Lagos which further plunged him into a huge dept.
I soon conducted a personal investigation to ascertain what went wrong only to discover that he boycotted a lot of guidelines and contract laws governing the company and was actually dealing with the wrong client who duped him.

What took over their mind if not evil spirit

a strong desire to show that miracles work in that ministry.
This strong desire can be self motivated as a sacrifice perhaps to appreciate the pastor for what the pastor has done to help them, or sometimes they are paid by the ministry to act.
And truly, their actions have paved way for more members in the church.
The day of deliverance come and see crowd in the church.

Possession and torment are two different things . A christian cannot be possessed by evil spirit . Possession means ownership . However a christian can be tormented or oppressed by the enemy for several reasons which are open doors

the enemy you are taking about is from within and not anything external, and that enemy within is ignorance

Can you explain the relevance of the above

Every spirit that confessed that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.
I have already explained that all Christians have agreed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and was crucified, therefore they are of God and cannot possibly be tormented by any evil spirit.
Everybody you see in church for one reason or the other(including those that came for deliverance) are all Christians, they all agreed that Jesus has come in the flesh, was crucified and he is resurrected.

Firstly it s dangerous and wrong to be praying for deliverance for muslims and other uncoverted people.

there is no one in the bible that was prayed for, and was delivered of evil spirit, that was a Christian.
Find out you will discover that this is true.
It's either the person was a gentile worshipping idols or was a Jew practicing judaism. (As at that time there was nothing like Islam on earth.)

Casting out devil is a part of healing ministry . A man has to be saved before you minister healing or "deliverance to him. Healing is the Chilren bread not for outsiders . If you deliver him ,he may die sepoon because he doesn't have the capacity to maintain his freedom from the devil.

You people are funny o!
See, if you want to tell me that if you preach to and unbeliever who perhaps may have evil spirit and he accept Christ and he is baptized with the holy ghost which eliminate the evil spirit in him that would have deprived him of believing in Christ and be saved, I will hear you.

But telling me that casting out devils is part of healing, that is not true.
Because, i can tell you that we have a lot of atheists today, they are not sick, they don't need any healing, yet the spirit in them that made them constantly to deny the existence of God is not of God.
So, healing cannot possibly by part or deliverance or deliverance part of healing.

petra1:





I understand with the op. Whe might not have used the best terminology. But there's truth in his statement. I've seen minsters demonized and tormented by devils. They pray in tongues , minister to others yet they have to be ministered to sometimes .

They are demonized and tormented because of ignorance (they were probably brought up to believe the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is not enough, so they would need to battle). The devil works on ignorance and fear.

[quote author=paxonel post=89512237] they ignorantly claimed to be delivered.[\quote]

It means they were not "delivered"

Like I said, i was ignorant too[\quote]

Means you were inexperienced. You just did trial and error. Young men zeal kind of things . It's nice though . .


[quote] so i believe them. but the truth is they never had any evil spirit, one of them specifically said I prayed for him and he was delivered from a financial mess which he was very sure that the root of the problem was attack from his village. but after that, he executed a failed contract with a well known company in Lagos which further plunged him into a huge dept.

It's not every case that requires such ministrations . The first time you minister to this guy what was his problem. Was there any manifestation or observation while praying for him . How did you confirm he was free.

I soon conducted a personal investigation to ascertain what went wrong only to discover that he boycotted a lot of guidelines and contract laws governing the company and was actually dealing with the wrong client who duped him.

It doesn't matter. As much as I know that all cases are not demonic . Some may just need counseling and teaching and personal discipline . But a lot of cases are demonic and you may not know the diffence except by discernment or experience . Are you aware that even the so called "dealing with wrong client and boycotting guidelines could be spiritually originated . When a man experience demonic attack it can come in any direction. DAVID was moved by the devil to count isreal . And 70,000 men died because of it

1 Chronicles 21:1 (KJV)
1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.


You could have called it just a mistake but it was ochestrated by devil and a protected nation lost 70,000 lives

Devils influenced Ananias to lie and lost his life

Acts 5:3
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

a strong desire to show that miracles work in that ministry.

Testimonies inspires faith

sometimes they are paid by the ministry to act[\quote]

Very unnecessary except a man is not called . Even ordinary members perform miracles as the Bible taught us.


[quote]therefore they are of God and cannot possibly be tormented by any evil spirit.

Wrong, ask Ananias that. Secondly I will ask you , do Christians fall sick ? . I believe your answer will be yes. Now I will tell you that most ailment are demonic . That's why I tell you that casting out devils are part of healing ministry . Because to heal people most of the time all you need do is cast the devil responsible out and then minister healing . Sometimes you may not need to minister healing because once the demon goes out dime people just get healed .

there is no one in the bible that was prayed for, and was delivered of evil spirit, that was a Christian.
.

Sin do open demonic doors in the life of Christians and they can be oppressed or tormented .

James 5:16
16 Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

Find out you will discover that this is true.
It's either the person was a gentile worshipping idols or was a Jew practicing judaism. (As at that time there was nothing like Islam on earth.)
;DYou people are funny o!
See, if you want to tell me that if you preach to and unbeliever who perhaps may have evil spirit and he accept Christ and he is baptized with the holy ghost which eliminate the evil spirit in him that would have deprived him of believing in Christ and be saved, I will hear you.

But telling me that casting out devils is part of healing, that is not true.
Because, i can tell you that we have a lot of atheists today, they are not sick, they don't need any healing, yet the spirit in them that made them constantly to deny the existence of God is not of God.
So, healing cannot possibly by part or deliverance or deliverance part of healing.

Let me leave all these remaining part for now because my above posts should have answered you.

petra1:

DAVID was moved by the devil to count isreal . And 70,000 men died because of it

petra1:

Devils influenced Ananias to lie

OK, now i get what you people are doing.
Your assumption is people who are found doing what is wrong like David, Ananias and Sapphiras and people who fall sick like maralia patients are controlled by demons, so you have to cast out that demon for them to start doing what is right or become healed from their sickness, that is your ministry?
You should have told me you have never seen the real demon before now, I didn't know.

paxonel:


OK, now i get what you people are doing.
Your assumption is people who are found doing what is wrong like David, Ananias and Sapphiras and people who fall sick like maralia patients are controlled by demons, so you have to cast out that demon for them to start doing what is right or become healed from their sickness, that is your ministry?

You’re getting it gradually . At least you saw it from the Bible . There’ are 3 operations of evil spirits or demons . Possession, oppression and obsession

A man can be demonized by having a demon in him but some others may get influenced from the demon externally . They can suggest thoughts to a person and influenced decisions . Those are part of obsession . There are other part of obsessions such as addictions , lust etc .

Opressions can be a torment in the mind or body ailment , bad lucks , failures , pain etc

There are pastors who couldn’t have children and they were ministered to and a demon was speaking through them . Imagine a demon speaking through a teacher of the word “ I am the idol of his fathers house” or speaking through a lady pastor “ I am her spiritual husband “ and guess what when the demon is cast out they had children each .

You should have told me you have never seen the real demon before now, I didn't know.

Have you seen one before ? Kindly Describe

petra1:

Have you seen one before ? Kindly Describe

I have never seen one before, but that doesn't mean they do not exist.
Some of them may be mentally derailed or harmful to associate with, like the man Jesus casted out evil spirits from, mark 5:8. and the story of the seven sons of sceva, Act 19:11-20.
But the bottom-line is:
1. these people were never Christians.
2. they constantly exhibited abnormal tendencies before the demons were casted out from them which was a sign that they were actually tormented by evil spirits.

Now this is the difference :
1. All the people that claimed to be delivered in churches are all Christians
2. They only exhibit abnormal tendencies only at the ground of their deliverance, after that, they are normal people again. That means they were schizophrenic experiencing temporary delusion or hallucination at that moment, after which they become normal again.

Generational curses is an attempt to exalt your physical ancestry above Christ and his finished work. Even if it was true that your fathers or parents did some things in the past, you would have to totally ignore all that Jesus did for you to believe you're suffering from a generational curse. No matter what happened in your family before you came to Christ or is still happening now, Christ Jesus has done much more. Put your faith in what he has done. The blood of Jesus overrides your family blood line.
Jesus the tree of life supersedes your family tree. Jesus is the answer... Old things have passed away.

paxonel:
I have never seen one before, but that doesn't mean they do not exist.
Some of them may be mentally derailed or harmful to associate with, like the man Jesus casted out evil spirits from, mark 5:8. and the story of the seven sons of sceva, Act 19:11-20.
But the bottom-line is:
1. these people were never Christians.
2. they constantly exhibited abnormal tendencies before the demons were casted out from them which was a sign that they were actually tormented by evil spirits.

Now this is the difference :
1. All the people that claimed to be delivered in churches are all Christians
2. They only exhibit abnormal tendencies only at the ground of their deliverance, after that, they are normal people again. That means they were schizophrenic experiencing temporary delusion or hallucination at that moment, after which they become normal again.

Why don’t you do a research . Forget Nigerian church google Derek prince on YouTube any of his teaching on demons . He is late now though .

Look I know what I’m talking about . I cast devils out from Christians Even ministers . I’m talking about tongue speaking and bible teachers

The OP claim a christian can be possessed by a spirit. Does that mean the Holy spirit and a demon can live in the same body. Let he kindly show us a passage in the bible where a believer is possessed by a demonic spirit..

Perfectbeing:
The OP claim a christian can be possessed by a spirit.

He didn’t say . To be demonized is deferent from possession .

Does that mean the Holy spirit and a demon can live in the same body.

Yes

Let he kindly show us a passage in the bible where a believer is possessed by a demonic spirit..

When you use the word “ POSSESS it connote a different thing . The op did not use possess. But a Christian can be demonized which means oppressed ,obsessed ,influenced etc

Annanias was influenced to lie and steal by evil spirit which led to his death

Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Paul warn the church many times . Of giving room to the devil things like anger .

Ephesians 4:26
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil.:

He even talk about angel of darkness tormenting him .

2 Corinthians 12:7
even though I have received such wonderful revelations from God. So to keep me from becoming proud, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to torment me and keep me from becoming proud.

even though the torment of Paul was external the devil was not in him but was tormenting him from outside but the point if it’s all demonic activity

Many Christians are sick today by giving room to Satan . He even went as far as killing them!

paxonel:
what you saw is hoax, it isn't real. I was there before, i even conducted deliverance for people out of ignorance.

See, everything you hear people saying that they were possessed of one spirit or the other is a thing of the mind.
At that moment they were saying this, they were not in their right state of mind i kind prove that to you.

How can a Christian saying he is possessed or tormented by an evil spirit contrary to what scriprure says?

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Only Muslims or people of other religions have not confessed that Jesus is the Christ but only christians do. And non of those delivered in churches who claimed they have evil spirit tormenting them are Muslims or people practicing religions other than Christianity or do you see any Muslim being delivered in churches like mountain of fire and other churches which is known for fake deliverance?

Think!

I am an example of that which you deny. I was born again, purity living and tongue talking Christian for more than 15 years before I got my deliverance.

If any man be in Christ, he is a NEW creature is VALID irrespective.

A demonized person is not necessarily Possessed, he is afflicted. To be demonized means to be afflicted not possession. A born again CANNOT be possessed!

shadeyinka:

I am an example of that which you deny. I was born again, purity living and tongue talking Christian for more than 15 years before I got my deliverance.

If any man be in Christ, he is a NEW creature is VALID irrespective.

A demonized person is not necessarily Possessed, he is afflicted. To be demonized means to be afflicted not possession. A born again CANNOT be possessed!

when you say afflicted what do you mean?
Were you experiencing failures or something?

Lolz... Let me gist you guys.
A prayerless Christian will be tormented
An ignorant Christian will be tormented
A spiritually blind Christian will be tormented,
A Christian that breaks the edge will not only be tormented, but possessed and caged because at that point the Holy Spirit has step aside from him.

Let me gist you a story that happened to me. Lolz! Young and vibrant but desperate for something, I had this lady and I compromise to do shit, Mouth Gig per se (I pity those that still do that shit with every gals they met lolz), thank God I'm not spiritually blind lolz, that night at sleep I saw I've been possessed by 3 demons from that singular act, I knew cos everything happening around or within me which is of importance I see while at sleep!! So when I woke up I knew there's fire on the mountain, so I did the needful to expel them (don't ask me what I did, I'm not that nice too lolz) they begged they didn't want to go, they even called their mother demon to begged me to stay but I expelled them all! Purify myself and invite the Holy Spirit in..
You won't know except you know, the devil is deceitful and subtle and we have to be very vigilant. He that thinks he stands should beware, lest he fall. Gracias!

shadeyinka:

I am an example of that which you deny. I was born again, purity living and tongue talking Christian for more than 15 years before I got my deliverance.

If any man be in Christ, he is a NEW creature is VALID irrespective.

A demonized person is not necessarily Possessed, he is afflicted. To be demonized means to be afflicted not possession. A born again CANNOT be possessed!

Classic

paxonel:
when you say afflicted what do you mean?
Were you experiencing failures or something?

Yes!
Failures upon failures even of well thought out, well planned issues. At that time, I honestly believed that one cannot be a Christian (born again) and be afflicted with demons. I used to quote scriptures against such ideas. As far as I was concerned, only unbelievers or Christians living in sin could be demonized. My argument was "how can satan/demons coexist in the same body!?"

When my problems persisted after doing all I knew to do as a Christian, I decided to do some overdrive in prayers (morning, afternoon, evening, night) religiously. As I began this routine of mine, I began to see correlations between my dreams and physical events and present realities. In those days, I used to eat Amala and Ewedu in my dreams usually with an old woman silently watching me devour the meals.

My deliverance wasn't a single event. It was over a period of time of breaking the bonds. As per eating in the dream, it happened that one day I heard someone call me by name. He said "stand up!": So I stood up from the bed. He said "go to the bathroom!": And so I went to the bathroom. He said "vomit!": And so I began to vomit Amala and Ewedu till the sink became full of vomit. The last to come out was as big as a grinding stone and I had to stretch my mouth so wide to allow it come out. The stone fell into the sink AND I woke up.

My throat was sore and my mouth was having a taste as if I just ate Amala and Ewedu. The dream was so real to me. That was the last time (several years now) that I eat at the table of my enemies in the dream.

My deliverance was stepwise and I cannot put everything down here. But I was having victories upon victories.

My first attempt at doing deliverance for a person (in a friend's ministry) was a disaster. The demonized woman grabbed me by the neck with her eyes closed and said "who called you into this matter...instead of you facing your own family battles, you are poke-nosing into someone else affairs..go fight your own battles..". Brethren came to rescue me from her clutch.

I was deflated. I wasn't living in sin. I was depressed. Oh God, when will I be finally free!? I fasted till the second day and I asked my pastor friend to conduct my deliverance. He did and another yoke was broken (for I always see in my dreams). I didn't manifest throughout!

My last deliverance was done by Christ Jesus Himself. He arrested the last of them and told me "Young man, you are free, go".

Are all setbacks and problems caused by demons?
NO!

I was only unlucky to have a heritage with a past heavily involved in occultism.

I will say, with hindsight, experience and scripture that I understand how, why a person may be demonized.

shadeyinka:

Yes!
Failures upon failures even of well thought out, well planned issues. At that time, I honestly believed that one cannot be a Christian (born again) and be afflicted with demons. I used to quote scriptures against such ideas. As far as I was concerned, only unbelievers or Christians living in sin could be demonized. My argument was "how can satan/demons coexist in the same body!?"
When my problems persisted after doing all I knew to do as a Christian, I decided to do some overdrive in prayers (morning, afternoon, evening, night) religiously. As I began this routine of mine, I began to see correlations between my dreams and physical events and present realities. In those days, I used to eat Amala and Ewedu in my dreams usually with an old woman silently watching me devour the meals.

My deliverance wasn't a single event. It was over a period of time of breaking the bonds. As per eating in the dream, it happened that one day I heard someone call me by name. He said "stand up!": So I stood up from the bed. He said "go to the bathroom!": And so I went to the bathroom. He said "vomit!": And so I began to vomit Amala and Ewedu till the sink became full of vomit. The last to come out was as big as a grinding stone and I had to stretch my mouth so wide to allow it come out. The stone fell into the sink AND I woke up.

My throat was sore and my mouth was having a taste as if I just ate Amala and Ewedu. The dream was so real to me. That was the last time (several years now) that I eat at the table of my enemies in the dream.

My deliverance was stepwise and I cannot put everything down here. But I was having victories upon victories.

My first attempt at doing deliverance for a person (in a friend's ministry) was a disaster. The demonized woman grabbed me by the neck with her eyes closed and said "who called you into this matter...instead of you facing your own family battles, you are poke-nosing into someone else affairs..go fight your own battles..". Brethren came to rescue me from her clutch.

I was deflated. I wasn't living in sin. I was depressed. Oh God, when will I be finally free!? I fasted till the second day and I asked my pastor friend to conduct my deliverance. He did and another yoke was broken (for I always see in my dreams). I didn't manifest throughout!

My last deliverance was done by Christ Jesus Himself. He arrested the last of them and told me "Young man, you are free, go".

Are all setbacks and problems caused by demons?
NO!

I was only unlucky to have a heritage with a past heavily involved in occultism.

I will say, with hindsight, experience and scripture that I understand how, why a person may be demonized.

oh, you mean you had all these experiences because you were involved in occultism?
what else do you expect, a normal living after the occultic experiences?

From what you have said, being demonized is a state of the mind such as fear which may result to all these eating in the dreams with enemy stuff and that has nothing to do with you being possessed by evil spirit right?

We are saying the same thing.

paxonel:
oh, you mean you had all these experiences because you were involved in occultism?
what else do you expect, a normal living after the occultic experiences?

From what you have said, being demonized is a state of the mind such as fear which may result to all these eating in the dreams with enemy stuff and that has nothing to do with you being possessed by evil spirit right?

We are saying the same thing.

They demons were because of inheritance from my ancestral past and not because I was involved in occultism.

No sir, we aren't saying the same thing. Don't forget that I said that initially, I didn't believe in such for I thought that demoniztion can only occur with unsaved people or Christians living in sin (including occultism).

Let me explain once again. Just as there are generational blessings, there are generational curses. Dangote's grand children cannot be poor because they have a blessing through Dangote that will rub upon them whatever they do. There are generational curses that manifest as genetic defects amongst a family eg dwarfism. These are passed down your ancestry line whether born again or not. Pls don't get me wrong, I am not saying that wealth and drarfism are caused by demons. I am just illustrating how some traits get inherited irrespective of the spiritual state of a person.

Since you claim you have done deliverance before, do you sometimes see the demonized manifest their demons?.
If they do, what do you think was happening?
Have you ever encountered a Christian who is demonized and would you attribute purely to sin and fear?