Acidosis:
Why do you think women care/love babies more? Society?

I think the nature vs. society argument is needless since both play huge roles.

You also have to realize that the decision to assign certain roles by some societies is based on their understanding of these innate or natural differences.

Looking at our anatomical and biological configurations, who should work more outside the home? The woman? Same woman with less physical strength? Same woman with the womb needed to raise kids? No society will send a pregnant woman to the war front, civilised or uncivilised.

These are some of the factors that led societies into assigning roles.

eyinjuege:


The society is changing, and roles are inadvertently changing.
Culture is very fluid and dynamic in its interaction with the modern world. If you understand this concept, you will forever be at peace, and not fight it.
Womb is not needed to raise kids.
Just a good head on the shoulder is what's needed.
Wombs may however be needed to incubate and nurture/raise a fetus till life is born.
Afterwards, to your tent o Isreal .
If a woman dies giving birth, the child can still be raised by the father single handedly.
Not an easy job for anyone whether man or woman, mother or surrogate, father or stepfather.
Even during the days formula wasn't available, babies who lost their mothers were nurtured with goat's milk/cow milk.
I have seen a case abroad whereby a man took custody of his 2 day old baby , right from the hospital after birth. Mum was a drug addict with lots of issues. They weren't married, and he was awarded full custody of a 2 day old child (from the womb)
Anyways, talking about pregnancy- Mothers are sent to the warfront, but not pregnant women, simply because a pregnant person will more or less be a burden on her comrades in the warfront. It's just impractical.
Same way you wouldn't send a man recovering from cancer or one with a fracture on his leg to the warfront.
While pregnancy may be a normal physiological process, it also comes with it's attending physiological or even atimes pathological problems.
That been said, we have female soldiers who after having their children and their body is relatively fully healed, are still moved around the country in the discharge of their duties despite the fact that they have young children at home.
Times are really changing. Resistance will only make the journey harder.

eyinjuege:


The society is changing, and roles are inadvertently changing.
Culture is very fluid and dynamic in its interaction with the modern world. If you understand this concept, you will forever be at peace, and not fight it.
Womb is not needed to raise kids.
Just a good head on the shoulder is what's needed.
Wombs may however be needed to incubate and nurture/raise a fetus till life is born.
Afterwards, to your tent o Isreal .
If a woman dies giving birth, the child can still be raised by the father single handedly.
Not an easy job for anyone whether man or woman, mother or surrogate, father or stepfather.
Even during the days formula wasn't available, babies who lost their mothers were nurtured with goat's milk/cow milk.
I have seen a case abroad whereby a man took custody of his 2 day old baby , right from the hospital after birth. Mum was a drug addict with lots of issues. They weren't married, and he was awarded full custody of a 2 day old child (from the womb)
Anyways, talking about pregnancy- Mothers are sent to the warfront, but not pregnant women, simply because a pregnant person will more or less be a burden on her comrades in the warfront. It's just impractical.
Same way you wouldn't send a man recovering from cancer or one with a fracture on his leg to the warfront.
While pregnancy may be a normal physiological process, it also comes with it's attending physiological or even atimes pathological problems.
That been said, we have female soldiers who after having their children and their body is relatively fully healed, are still moved around the country in the discharge of their duties despite the fact that they have young children at home.
Times are really changing. Resistance will only make the journey harder.

Acidosis:



I think the attempt to compare a wounded soldier with a pregnant woman is out of place. Moreover, I'm yet to see a country that sends their women to war while leaving the men behind to nurse babies. If you don't see this from the viewpoint of biological makeup then I don't know what else to call it.

The example you gave about a drug addict is not out of place btw. I believe in exemptions.

You have an example in tomboys. But like you know, a tomboy can never metamorphosed into a male unless, of course, you try to disrupt the biological (not societal) makeup.

Also, a g.ay union will never be a preferred option to the union between a man and woman, doesn't matter what the society says. Nature needs something from the male and female to raise new generations.

Nature also want us to have se.x (not society), which leads to newborns for continuity purposes. It's nature that makes people give birth to unplanned babies. Society only introduced abortion pills to alter the process but it hasn't stopped the desire for either se.x or newborns. Resistance to this will only end the world.

There are exemptions though in people who do not want kids, or a legally binding union. It's not a new phenomenon and has nothing to do with changing times [don't worry, I won't give biblical examples].

Yes, the society is shaping certain norms but the biological (nature) influences are irreplaceable. Men would always be better options for wars just as women will always be better options for birth and nurturing owing to their biological makeup.

Hathor5:


The full list continues with the percentage getting lower on the male side and the percentage getting higher on the female side. It still proves your point but only if you don't put it in perspective like you didn't. The U.S. Bureau of Statistics registers over 800 occupations so even if 300 were dominated by one gender, the number is lower, a majority of jobs would still be balanced in terms of the gender ratio.

[s]I prefer to have discussions to learn, not to win, or to confirm my bias, so I wish you a nice day sir.[/s]

Plead:

The bolded...must someone stay at home?

emmaodet:


Even the so called women sent to war are always kept in the camp to prepare tea and other things for the male soldiers who go to the war front or hot zones and immediately they receive signal that rebels are defeating and approaching the camp which is mostly in the nearest barrack or camp in a town close to the war front, all women, children and female soldiers are evacuated to a farther barrack or camp in the town next.

emmaodet:

Even the so called women sent to war are always kept in the camp to prepare tea and other things for the male soldiers who go to the war front or hot zones and immediately they receive signal that rebels are defeating and approaching the camp which is mostly in the nearest barrack or camp in a town close to the war front, all women, children and female soldiers are evacuated to a farther barrack or camp in the town next.

crackland:

Lol, I didn't even want to deal with that army example that was brought up earlier.

This is a discussion I've had with someone - a cousin, Major in the Nigerian Army who is stationed in the northern theatre, right at the epicenter of Boko Haram territory.

There are no women there, SIMPLE - it's not for argument.

That women are recruited into the army does not mean they are sent into battle and like you rightly pointed out, they are mostly stationed at camps and tasked with handling intel. Others are used to interrogate and thoroughly search females who have been captured.
The ones who have been trained in aerial surveillance will be flying above (still with a male co-pilot).


When it comes down to fighting at the front in any warzone (anywhere in the world) where soldiers spend weeks at a stretch in harsh conditions, they don't want to take a woman who may start seeing her period and then become deadweight to members of her team. Not to mention that even without that, women are just not as strong, fast, or have the stamina to match up with the men in such situations.
This is a weak-link no soldier wants to gamble on when you're faced between life and death.

Even well-trained dogs see more action on the battlefield than female soldiers.

And that is just one occupation, there are countless more like it.

Even you sef bruv, you're a sailor right... how many women dey your line of work?
As a crane operator, I've only ever met one female operator (she's not even Nigerian) and this is despite the fact that all we need to do to operate these giant machines, is move a few levers and press buttons.

crackland:

Lol, I didn't even want to deal with that army example that was brought up earlier.

This is a discussion I've had with someone - a cousin, Major in the Nigerian Army who is stationed in the northern theatre, right at the epicenter of Boko Haram territory.

There are no women there, SIMPLE - it's not for argument.

That women are recruited into the army does not mean they are sent into battle and like you rightly pointed out, they are mostly stationed at camps and tasked with handling intel. Others are used to interrogate and thoroughly search females who have been captured.
The ones who have been trained in aerial surveillance will be flying above (still with a male co-pilot).


When it comes down to fighting at the front in any warzone (anywhere in the world) where soldiers spend weeks at a stretch in harsh conditions, they don't want to take a woman who may start seeing her period and then become deadweight to members of her team. Not to mention that even without that, women are just not as strong, fast, or have the stamina to match up with the men in such situations.
This is a weak-link no soldier wants to gamble on when you're faced between life and death.

Even well-trained dogs see more action on the battlefield than female soldiers.

And that is just one occupation, there are countless more like it.

Even you sef bruv, you're a sailor right... how many women dey your line of work?
As a crane operator, I've only ever met one female operator (she's not even Nigerian) and this is despite the fact that all we need to do to operate these giant machines, is move a few levers and press buttons.

JourneytoEL:
You are still saying the same thing with the op. that women are not in the battle front in nigeria dosen't mean it is so over the world. Remember, africa used to have the Dahomey female warriors,Queen Amina, Yaa Asantewa and many women who reached the frontline in battles. But, now, the average nigerian female believes she has no business there because that is what she was brought up believing. I am female and i hate to say this 80% of young female nigerians are not ambitious. They are very comfortable chatting on twitter,gossiping on blogs,looking beautiful and looking for the best kayanmata, attraction oil and other modified jazz to land them a good catch in the market. Even when they want to work they are very comfortable with competing with their fellow females by selling bags, shoes, hair,cream etc. This is because we grew up believing it is the work of men to hustle and be wealthy while it is our duty to "leech" on a wealthy man. We grew up watching cinderella and sleeping beauty where a prince must save you else you die. Even the few smart ones that enroll themselves in military are not interested in moving up the ranks and contributing seriously to the force, they rather stay gossiping and preparing food. Take a look at the movies we produce especially on africa magic epic, 90% of the storyline includes a poor village orphan girl will be suffering till she meets a rich man from the city that will marry her and change her life. the question is, why can't the poor orphan girl, write jamb, get a scholarship, get a good job or start a profitable business and take her damn self out of poverty? why must she wait for the rich prince?

emmaodet:


You are right bro, 100% right.
Even in my line of work, the few ladies we have are all officers doing more or less office work like being on bridge operating advance computers and radio communication. None of them are into the rigorous jobs of cleaning, mopping, latching of mooring ropes and wires etc

Hathor5:


The full list continues with the percentage getting lower on the male side and the percentage getting higher on the female side. It still proves your point but only if you don't put it in perspective like you didn't. The U.S. Bureau of Statistics registers over 800 occupations so even if 300 were dominated by one gender, the number is lower, a majority of jobs would still be balanced in terms of the gender ratio.

I prefer to have discussions to learn, not to win, or to confirm my bias, so I wish you a nice day sir.

crackland:

That's all.

There's hardly any job that is balanced in terms of gender ratio (50/50) - it's either men are more, or women are more.
And that was the point of the list, to show that your claim about how majority of jobs are gender balanced came off the top of your head with no facts backing it.

Hathor5:


The full list continues with the percentage getting lower on the male side and the percentage getting higher on the female side. It still proves your point but only if you don't put it in perspective like you didn't. The U.S. Bureau of Statistics registers over 800 occupations so even if 300 were dominated by one gender, the number is lower, a majority of jobs would still be balanced in terms of the gender ratio.

I prefer to have discussions to learn, not to win, or to confirm my bias, so I wish you a nice day sir.

crackland:

And there is usually AC on the bridge abi, or at least a good view with fresh air. The work no dey strenuous.

crackland:

So what is responsible for all that? Nature or society?


With all the talk about how times have changed, are Nigerian women really ready to change the above narrative, or should the change ONLY happen on the man's part?

Are Nigerian women really ready to stop waiting for men to deliver them by increasing their financial status? I don't think so...
Reality does not show it.

Nothing changed, it only evolved.

JourneytoEL:
its still society. You are more likely to see women ready to change the narrative amongst the upper class members of the nigerian society, but you the middle class and lower class ehn, i have personally met women who told me who feminism epp, they prefer the present state of things where they wait for a man to bring money to their feet.

crackland:

Lmao..you have completely turned facts on its head just to make a flawed point.

Name one Nigerian woman belonging to the economic upper class who identifies and vocalizes as a feminist.

Feminism in Nigeria is the tonic for women who grew up in poor/less than average homes.
A woman who from childhood had always been exposed to the best education, the best opportunities, unlimited funds from daddy/mummy, these are the ones that never needed feminism to be anything - they already had access to the things women like you think feminism will achieve for you.

While you're right that a woman from the upper class will not be seeking desperately to marry a man who will increase her financial status, she still won't marry down.
Her ideal man will be from the same circle, and this also proves that nothing has changed.

If women really think change has come, they would marry men with less financial weight regardless of their status... because from the ages, it's always been men marrying down.

The only change women want is on the part of men, not themselves...and that will not work.
It's either all of us remain primitive, or all of us become modern.

JourneytoEL:
Firstly, many rich women are not vocal because of security issues in the country. Piping low is key to enjoying a long life as a rich woman here. I have interacted with a good number of them and they share feministic views. Also,the major reason most women don't marry down is because most men tend to have esteem issues because their wives are richer. Although i have met two exceptional cases, one the man still rides his cab till date in the morning, goes to his state ministry office, and later in the evening rides his cab, while his wife is a super rich career woman driving a venza, yet they are very happy both in and out. the other, the wife is a successful lawyer, very humble and nice, while the hubby works closely with her,helps in the house with the kids if she has to travel, infact they are so close i initially thought they were both lawyers. Now, the man is been mocked in the street for being a "sissy man". A woman cannot be humble enough for a typical nigerian man with esteem issues. Even if you are lucky enough to get a man with a good esteem, his poor family and friends will keep taunting him for been a "sissy" till he changes. That's why women love to marry their class and above.

JourneytoEL:
its still society. You are more likely to see women ready to change the narrative amongst the upper class members of the nigerian society, but you the middle class and lower class ehn, i have personally met women who told me who feminism epp, they prefer the present state of things where they wait for a man to bring money to their feet.

JourneytoEL:
Firstly, many rich women are not vocal because of security issues in the country. Piping low is key to enjoying a long life as a rich woman here. I have interacted with a good number of them and they share feministic views. Also,the major reason most women don't marry down is because most men tend to have esteem issues because their wives are richer. Although i have met two exceptional cases, one the man still rides his cab till date in the morning, goes to his state ministry office, and later in the evening rides his cab, while his wife is a super rich career woman driving a venza, yet they are very happy both in and out. the other, the wife is a successful lawyer, very humble and nice, while the hubby works closely with her,helps in the house with the kids if she has to travel, infact they are so close i initially thought they were both lawyers. Now, the man is been mocked in the street for being a "sissy man". A woman cannot be humble enough for a typical nigerian man with esteem issues. Even if you are lucky enough to get a man with a good esteem, his poor family and friends will keep taunting him for been a "sissy" till he changes. That's why women love to marry their class and above.

bukatyne:


Just curious

Who are the people mocking this man as a sissy on the streets?

JourneytoEL:
we wanted to do a meeting and the leader refused to call him,saying he would rather call his wife because she is the head of the home because she feeds him