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Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by CAPSLOCKED: 11:30pm On May 23
Nefort:

The proof of God's existence is already there and very obvious.

FEELS I'VE BEEN IN A COMA FOR THE PAST 300 YEARS.
KINDLY TELL ME THE "VERY OBVIOUS" PROOF OF GOD'S EXISTENCE THAT IS ALREADY THERE. SEEMS I'VE MISSED SO MUCH.

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Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by kingxsamz(m): 11:38pm On May 23
Nefort:



Now my question is, what if the Bible is fake does this prove a creator doesn't exist?

A creator would have to be proven to exist first, before it can be disproved.

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Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by kingxsamz(m): 11:38pm On May 23
Stephenmoka4:
I have witnessed an atheist practice some sort of sorcery etc.

Please go into details.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by kingxsamz(m): 11:42pm On May 23
Nefort:

The Bible might be fake but what is very clear is that an intelligent spirit created the universe.



Assumptions... undecided
Would you agree that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is this intelligent spirit that created the universe?

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Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Onekind04(m): 12:01am On May 24
The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Dantedasz(m): 5:18am On May 24
Nefort:

The things that we see and feel can be explained. We have seen and studied creation in the universe and the conclusion of many is that these things are very complex, organised and intelligently made to occur by chance. Since we didn't create them then something else must have made them. Now switching over our attention to what intelligently created the things we see, since we cannot see it it means it is beyond our observable scope. So there is no point asking what created something that is not even within our power of understanding and scope of observation. We just know it is there because the handwork is very obvious.



I always have issues with people who claim the Universe and humans were intelligently made. What is intelligent about typhoons,earthquakes,cancer,child birth,sexual intercourse or living and dying?
If the creator god of religion is real,then such a being can not be called an intelligent creator at all. He/She is more of a mad hatter/insane creator being because nothing he/she/it created shows any sign of intelligence or perfection. Everything created is a symbol of imperfection,natural disasters and terminal sicknesses!

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Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by sonmvayina(m): 7:50am On May 24
Nefort:

In the minds of religious fanatics they think muslims and Christians worship different God's, but the fact is that the God that created a Muslim is still the same God that created a Christian. Humans beings started existing long before Christianity and Islam started isn't it? No human being was born with a religion. Humans are born into a religion instead.

Yes, I agree with you, but not everyone know who the creator is.. Or what it is.. So they rater follow the precepts of men..

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Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Xmuslim: 8:27am On May 24
Nefort:
Among the popular questions atheists keep asking believers during every argument about God's existence are: WHERE DID GOD COME FROM? WHO CREATED GOD? The answer to this question is simple. God came from outside the universe where things work differently and where things necessarily doesn't have a beginning and an end.

A big mistake that atheist make is that they assume that the laws of the universe is the ultimate. Before humans started exploring space humans will say everything that goes up must surely come down. But this law is only valid while you are in planet Earth. As soon you leave planet Earth and venture into space you will discover the law becomes invalid. Atheists have been making the mistake of trying to explain God's existence using the laws of universe. One of the laws of the universe is that everything with a beginning must have an ending. This law will only work in the universe and not necessarily outside the universe. When atheists ask where God came from or who created God they are erroneously ASSUMING that God is bound to the laws of universe. But God IS NOT bound to the laws of the universe where everything with a beginning must have an end. God exists outside the universe so this law doesn't apply to him. Outside our universe the laws will be quite different and it is no more going to work like the universe where everything must have a beginning and an end. The laws beyond our universe is a scope or realm beyond the reach of the limited human intelligence. The fact that you can't explain the origin of a creator doesn't mean nothing created the complexities existing in the universe. The origin of the creator is just beyond the human mind to grasp. Our minds can only see and understand that something intelligent designed the universe, but not able to figure out where the creator came from.

I think it's only religious people that try to prove the existence of God by all means. But deep in their mind, they are only concerned about the specific God of their own religion.

While I'm agnostic about the existence of God. It existence (if 100% real) does not necessarily validate religion.

Perhaps, he created us and left us on our own without expecting any worship from us. We may even be a by-product of some of his creation. But human think they are very special.

A perfect omnipotent and omniscient God will not be jealous, will not need human help (by asking us to worship him), will not send books that will not be understood by ordinary mind.

In conclusion, God existence doesn't validate your religion or any religion for that matter.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Xmuslim: 8:47am On May 24
Nefort:

The things that we see and feel can be explained. We have seen and studied creation in the universe and the conclusion of many is that these things are very complex, organised and intelligently made to occur by chance. Since we didn't create them then something else must have made them. Now switching over our attention to what intelligently created the things we see, since we cannot see it it means it is beyond our observable scope. So there is no point asking what created something that is not even within our power of understanding and scope of observation. We just know it is there because the handwork is very obvious.

And you have concluded that the something must care about us.

That the something must still be alive.

That the something must be the god of your own religion.

If the law outside universe does not necessarily similar to the law here, which makes the question WHO CREATED GOD INVALID. don't you think that WHO CREATED UNIVERSE MAY BE INVALID TOO following your logic.

I think your post is drifting me from agnostic to atheism

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Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Xmuslim: 9:09am On May 24
Dantedasz:




I always have issues with people who claim the Universe and humans were intelligently made. What is intelligent about typhoons,earthquakes,cancer,child birth,sexual intercourse or living and dying?
If the creator god of religion is real,then such a being can not be called an intelligent creator at all. He/She is more of a mad hatter/insane creator being because nothing he/she/it created shows any sign of intelligence or perfection. Everything created is a symbol of imperfection,natural disasters and terminal sicknesses!

Sexual intercourse is sweet. Was wondering why you listed it among the imperfection of the so called intelligent creator
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Dantedasz(m): 10:08am On May 24
Xmuslim:


Sexual intercourse is sweet. Was wondering why you listed it among the imperfection of the so called intelligent creator


The genitals are imperfect creations because of they are easily open to all kinds of viral infections.

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Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Nefort: 10:31am On May 24
Xmuslim:


And you have concluded that the something must care about us.

That the something must still be alive.

That the something must be the god of your own religion.

If the law outside universe does not necessarily similar to the law here, which makes the question WHO CREATED GOD INVALID. don't you think that WHO CREATED UNIVERSE MAY BE INVALID TOO following your logic.

I think your post is drifting me from agnostic to atheism
If the "something" doesn't care about us or dead then we wouldn't be existing. "Care" doesn't mean something must directly be interfering in our lives. It definitely interferes in ways we don't detect.

I don't belong to any religion. I only believe a creator exists because of the intelligence behind creation which can't be fixed by chance. And the details about the creator is out of bounds for our mind to grasp. When atheists begin to accept that our minds are limited in capacity to grasp things then you wouldn't be asking a pointless question about the origin of a creator that is not even existing in the same state with us and not bound to the laws of the universe.

As an atheist if you can't explain the simpler things you can see like the many natural occurrences on earth, then it's futile to know where a creator originated from that is not even part of the universe. The intelligence behind creation is the evidence that a creator exists. Where the creator came from is beyond our scope of existence. Therefore we will never know it.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Nefort: 10:38am On May 24
Xmuslim:


I think it's only religious people that try to prove the existence of God by all means. But deep in their mind, they are only concerned about the specific God of their own religion.

While I'm agnostic about the existence of God. It existence (if 100% real) does not necessarily validate religion.

Perhaps, he created us and left us on our own without expecting any worship from us. We may even be a by-product of some of his creation. But human think they are very special.

A perfect omnipotent and omniscient God will not be jealous, will not need human help (by asking us to worship him), will not send books that will not be understood by ordinary mind.

In conclusion, God existence doesn't validate your religion or any religion for that matter.
God and religion are two separate things and should not be mixed together. One of the problems with atheists is that they always mix up both of them. They feel that because religion has loopholes, contradictions and inconsistencies as seen in the Bible and in the Koran, it becomes a pointer that a God doesn't exist. Religion is more about rules specifying how to worship God. The Christian rules and Islamic rules of worshipping the same God. Religion is not something to be used to prove or disprove the existence of a God. The Bible and Koran might be fake but this doesn't mean a creator doesn't exist.

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Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Nefort: 11:04am On May 24
Dantedasz:




I always have issues with people who claim the Universe and humans were intelligently made. What is intelligent about typhoons,earthquakes,cancer,child birth,sexual intercourse or living and dying?
If the creator god of religion is real,then such a being can not be called an intelligent creator at all. He/She is more of a mad hatter/insane creator being because nothing he/she/it created shows any sign of intelligence or perfection. Everything created is a symbol of imperfection,natural disasters and terminal sicknesses!
There is a difference between something not made properly and something not being created. When you see a product badly manufactured it doesn't mean the product wasn't manufactured. The fact that there are "imperfections" like cancers and typhoons still doesn't mean a creator doesn't exist. It is better to believe that the creator is imperfect than believing creation just happened by chance. The number of perfectly made things still vastly exceed the number of imperfectly made things. Cancers and typoons are things that happen very less frequently like 1% of the time. If the remaining 99% were still made perfectly fine then there is no way it can happen by chance. If it were by chance the ratio of perfect and imperfection would have been 50 - 50. Even things that are "imperfect" still has intelligence written all over it.

I know you have once called somebody an intelligent person regardless of the mistakes he has made in the past. If you have called somebody intelligent then you have already admitted there is intelligence in creation.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Nefort: 11:11am On May 24
kingxsamz:


A creator would have to be proven to exist first, before it can be disproved.
A creator has already been proven. The intelligence behind creation cannot happen by chance. An intelligent force is behind it.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Dantedasz(m): 11:13am On May 24
Nefort:

There is a difference between something not made properly and something not being created. When you see a product badly manufactured it doesn't mean the product wasn't manufactured. The fact that there are "imperfections" like cancers and typhoons still doesn't mean a creator doesn't exist. It is better to believe that the creator is imperfect than believing creation just happened by chance. The number of perfectly made things still vastly exceed the number of imperfectly made things. Cancers and typoons are things that happen very less frequently like 1% of the time. If the remaining 99% were still made perfectly fine then there is no way it can happen by chance. If it were by chance the ratio of perfect and imperfection would have been 50 - 50. Even things that are "imperfect" still has intelligence written all over it.

I know you have once called somebody an intelligent person regardless of the mistakes he has made in the past. If you have called somebody intelligent then you have already admitted there is intelligence in creation.

Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Nefort: 11:17am On May 24
CAPSLOCKED:


FEELS I'VE BEEN IN A COMA FOR THE PAST 300 YEARS.
KINDLY TELL ME THE "VERY OBVIOUS" PROOF OF GOD'S EXISTENCE THAT IS ALREADY THERE. SEEMS I'VE MISSED SO MUCH.
Is it possible for your shoes to move by themselves from your sitting room downstairs and climb the two stairs, then navigates every corridor and park themselves under your bed in your bedroom upstairs?
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Nefort: 11:22am On May 24
LordReed:


You need evidence that something created you and can still modify your sense of perception?
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by CAPSLOCKED: 11:24am On May 24
Nefort:

Is it possible for your shoes to move by themselves from your sitting room downstairs and climb the two stairs, then navigates every corridor and park themselves under your bed in your bedroom upstairs?

I DON'T THINK SO.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Nefort: 11:31am On May 24
CAPSLOCKED:


I DON'T THINK SO.
Just say NO or YES.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by lambsbread: 11:43am On May 24
Nefort:

A creator has already been proven. The intelligence behind creation cannot happen by chance. An intelligent force is behind it.
How do you want to use the word Creator and intelligence for something you said exist outside the universe. Isn't all these concepts invented by dwellers of the universe?

If I go by your logic, I will say creation happened by chance. Chance doesn't make sense to you but it makes sense outside the universe before big bang happened.

You're just talking in the nonsense bro...
Inventing unfounded theories out of your wishful thought and using them as the basis of your argument.

If you're only interested in telling us the mumbo jumbo of what you know without seeing the importance of telling us how you know, then go and rest.

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Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by kingxsamz(m): 11:52am On May 24
Nefort:

A creator has already been proven. The intelligence behind creation cannot happen by chance. An intelligent force is behind it.

How can you prove that an Intelligent force is behind it?
And when you say "creator", who or what are you referring to?

2 Likes

Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by kingxsamz(m): 11:57am On May 24
Xmuslim:
WHO CREATED GOD INVALID. don't you think that WHO CREATED UNIVERSE MAY BE INVALID TOO following your logic.


Exactly. If they believe that there's a cause(God), which is uncaused, then we can also believe that the big bang was uncaused.

2 Likes

Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by albertatrina(f): 12:16pm On May 24
Nefort:

Did you create yourself? The answer is NO. Since you didn't create yourself then something else created you. Whether you think it's evolution or whatever, you are as good whatever created you. Whatever created you can as well modify your senses to change your interpretation of objects around you.

Anyway, if you visit another planet where intelligent beings reside and they tell you that a rectangle is called a square circle, don't bother arguing with them because that is what they called it over there, and it means a square circle actually exists and God has created it.
are you implying that right now, there is another planet where intelligent beings exist ? yes or no?

1 Like

Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by lambsbread: 12:24pm On May 24
kingxsamz:


Exactly. If they believe that there's a cause(God), which is uncaused, then we can also believe that the big bang was uncaused.
Going by his logic, something that existed outside God also created God.

Abi na only God fit exist outside something ni?

How they think they can just invent unfounded theories from no where always irks me.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by LordReed(m): 12:40pm On May 24
Nefort:

You need evidence that something created you and can still modify your sense of perception?

Yes I do.

1 Like

Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by kingxsamz(m): 12:50pm On May 24
lambsbread:

Going by his logic, something that existed outside God also created God.

Abi na only God fit exist outside something ni?

How they think they can just invent unfounded theories from no where always irks me.
The thing tire me bro...

1 Like

Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Xmuslim: 1:16pm On May 24
Nefort:

God and religion are two separate things and should not be mixed together. One of the problems with atheists is that they always mix up both of them. They feel that because religion has loopholes, contradictions and inconsistencies as seen in the Bible and in the Koran, it becomes a pointer that a God doesn't exist. Religion is more about rules specifying how to worship God. The Christian rules and Islamic rules of worshipping the same God. Religion is not something to be used to prove or disprove the existence of a God. The Bible and Koran might be fake but this doesn't mean a creator doesn't exist.
I agree with you. I may be agnostic about the concept of God though.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Nefort: 1:16pm On May 24
albertatrina:
are you implying that right now, there is another planet where intelligent beings exist ? yes or no?
I used it as an example. He asked me whether God can create a square circle and I asked him WHAT IF there is another planet where intelligent beings exist and they call a certain shape a square circle? Then it means God can create a square circle.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Nefort: 1:19pm On May 24
LordReed:


Yes I do.
I thought you said evolution is behind creation? If you believe things came into existence through evolution then it means evolution created you. And as long as evolution created you it can also modify you. So what evidence are you talking about?
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Xmuslim: 1:31pm On May 24
Nefort:

If the "something" doesn't care about us or dead then we wouldn't be existing. "Care" doesn't mean something must directly be interfering in our lives. It definitely interferes in ways we don't detect.

I don't belong to any religion. I only believe a creator exists because of the intelligence behind creation which can't be fixed by chance. And the details about the creator is out of bounds for our mind to grasp. When atheists begin to accept that our minds are limited in capacity to grasp things then you wouldn't be asking a pointless question about the origin of a creator that is not even existing in the same state with us and not bound to the laws of the universe.

As an atheist if you can't explain the simpler things you can see like the many natural occurrences on earth, then it's futile to know where a creator originated from that is not even part of the universe. The intelligence behind creation is the evidence that a creator exists. Where the creator came from is beyond our scope of existence. Therefore we will never know it.

First, I apologies for falsely expressing my opinion about your religious status.

Second, I'm not an atheist per se. I'm agnostic. Thus, I'm open on the issue of the creator.

However, I made a point regarding whether the creator abandoned the universe or it(creator) may not be existing again. This is because the universe is running automatically. It is similar to when you program something to run automatically, even if you die, the program will continue to run smoothly.
Re: Atheists, This Is Where God Originated From by Xmuslim: 1:33pm On May 24
Dantedasz:



The genitals are imperfect creations because of they are easily open to all kinds of viral infections.
oh.. Ok

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