Welcome, Guest: Join Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 2,710,848 members, 6,402,503 topics. Date: Saturday, 24 July 2021 at 04:27 PM

Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. - Programming (2) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Science/Technology / Programming / Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. (10546 Views)

Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate / Please Help! How Can I Be A Self-taught Programmer/developer? / Self Taught Journey {8 Weeks Goal} April 13 -june 7 2019 (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by ProfAmaben: 11:46pm On Jul 01, 2020
iLearner:


You're right actually.

But again, I feel people shouldn't just delve into some aspects of programming without some mathematical background. I am a Statistics student and I know how much of advanced Statistics there is in Data Science.

Data science to me is not like website development in anyway. Data science is a merger of mainly statistics and computer science. I am a Data scientist but I'm not a statistician. I basically use it when it's necessary let's say I really wanna get more insight in a dataset mostly in CSV format, after cleaning up the data from anomalies I start my job.

Anyone can still be a data scientist with dedication. The aspect of statistics that is used is mainly correlation, maximum likelihood algorithm, regression etc.. except you wanna start doing crazy stuff like mahalanobis distance, CNN training etc

3 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by hardebayho(m): 7:39pm On Jul 02, 2020
Karex81:

Programming language like python, c++, c etc
requires good knowledge of maths especially vectors, linear algebra.
I was shocked when i saw vectors from secondary school, used in game programming.

Come on, man! I use C++ ALL the time, and I only ever use maths when I'm working on gamedev. I wonder what you'll need maths for in a chat application though. I mean, it's just useless. Learning advanced maths is good, buh it's definitely not a requirement.

3 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by hardebayho(m): 7:45pm On Jul 02, 2020
sexylassie2:


I really don't want to argue here except maybe you misunderstood what I wrote down.

Advanced Mathematics is very important in programming, you can check the list of countries with the best programmers, mathematics is a strong focus point in their curriculum.

Even in India with their cheap programing labour, mathematics is a top must for you in universities if you want to learn CS.

The more we tell people to learn programing just because you want to make money, the more we bring out quacks.

Programmers are like craftsmen or women, they can make or destroy a project.

Well, we can think of this as more of a discussion than an argument. To address your points, advanced mathematics is NOT very important in programming. You know what they say, you only use what you need, when you need it. Because I'm creating a chat app with firebase on android now doesn't mean that I have to use ANY advanced maths. I mean, there are already libraries that took care of these stuff for me, so if what I'm currently maintaining is the logic for a chat application, then It's not necessary for me to use any advanced mathematics whatsoever. If I'm working on an advanced calculator or a game however, then I obviously need some more maths knowledge beyond basic algebra.

To answer to your last point, you're right about programmers being craftsmen or women. Yeah, they can make or destroy a project, but they don't have to be mathematicians.

7 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Karex81(m): 9:01pm On Jul 02, 2020
hardebayho:


Come on, man! I use C++ ALL the time, and I only ever use maths when I'm working on gamedev. I wonder what you'll need maths for in a chat application though. I mean, it's just useless. Learning advanced maths is good, buh it's definitely not a requirement.
It depends on the field
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Anonime1105(m): 8:48pm On Jul 03, 2020
Interesting thread!
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by LSarcastic: 8:44pm On Jul 05, 2020
sexylassie2:


Not true, even curriculum of Cs is filled with advanced mathematics.

Go check the countries with the best programmers, mathematics is a top priority in their curriculum.

Yeah, it is filled with advanced mathematics. But that is limited to the scope of computer science as a course and not programming as a discipline. When it comes to programming, knowledge of mathematics is not required but it is helpful. You can't tell me that to build Nairaland, Seun Osewa did some differential calculus to make db queries.

Same as Python. Python is not only for ML and AI. You can use it to build websites and write small scripts to automate stuffs. Not everyone learns Python to do ML and AI(like me for example). I used Python(Django specifically) to build https://www.bonychicken.com and I did not do a single calculation.

As I said, if you're talking about ML and AI, you're right. But if you're referring to Python or Programming in general, your statement is false.

5 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by lordally(m): 7:43pm On May 28
sexylassie2:


go check anywhere, the best programmers are good in mathematical logic

there is a reason CS is filled with advanced maths

also, there is a reason, the west and eastern europe have good programmers, strong priority in STEM

Are you really into Software development Cos if you are , you would know anyone who's not good in maths can still make it big in Software development

2 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by lordally(m): 7:47pm On May 28
sexylassie2:


1-I am not a dude
2- when building a site from scratch, you need three people, a designer, a frontend and a backend( designers and frontend don't need maths, any body can learn that) , note: I am not talking about modifying word press templates.
3. My main focus was about building complex system with back end functionalities, maths is very important.
4- countries with stem based curriculum have better programmers than countries without.

I know what I am saying,I am not in programming myself but I work in a security company that have built in house security softwares, all our programmers are all sourced from ukraine and poland the reason is simple because of strong focus on stem.

Since you're not in programming then I guess you shouldn't talk about what you have no full knowledge about o... Cos people without good maths knowledge can be good in software development

3 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by lordally(m): 7:49pm On May 28
sexylassie2:


The pool of good programmers in Nigeria is very few.



This just states the obvious , that you don't know what you're really talking about!! grin grin

3 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Contango(m): 12:08pm On May 31
sexylassie2:
For all those learning and advertising python to wannabe programmers, stop wasting your time.

If you don't have good mathematics background or love for data,you will fail big time.

Unpopular truth cheesy

A lot of people will disagree with you but what you said is just the cold truth. People refuting you are people who don’t delve deep into aspects of programming that requires efficient use of algorithms and data structures hence conclude from their limited perspective that one does not really need maths and logic. Sadly they think that what they are doing is deep even though it is barely at the surface. You will also find out that they write codes that are rife in bugs and are among those saying it is impossible to write bug-free codes. A lot of them don’t even understand the principles behind a lot of codes they copy hook, line, and sinker from stack overflow for as long as it temporary solves their problem. Unfortunately, the ill-understood codes they copied creates some other conflict along the line and then the circle continues. One popular example is that people with poor mathematical and logical finesse will not account for conditions where a “divided by zero” occurs or situations where Boolean logic self destruct under certain conditions. Honestly I don’t understand how people code without understanding basic linear algebra...particularly matrix operations.

If you investigate those claiming you don’t need good maths and logic background properly, you will discover that most of them don’t go beyond linear data types and I could bet that most of them have not coded a 3 level nested loop before.

It is impossible to do real coding with mediocre understanding of maths and logic. All I can say is that give a person who is poor in maths and logic a program to design and get ready for breakdown of program at regular intervals because new unaccounted scenarios will keep arising.

7 Likes 1 Share

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Nobody: 12:10pm On May 31
From how many months ago, unfortunately trump is out so? CS pros are far better than so called "learn for house" chest beaters that is one fact that remains the same.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by BAwaYE: 12:11pm On May 31
Still available and selling fast. Out of stock soon...

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by MotivationKG(m): 12:13pm On May 31
sexylassie2:


Mathematics and logic is needed for all web development.

I saw your comment and I need to rephrase you on that.
Not all web devs needs mathematics but logic is essential. I am an example of that and there is other good programmers/web devs like myself but you can't find them easily cos they are mostly working on their personal big projects.

I also need to say something on this "who is better" competition between the C.S degree holders and Self-made progs.

Instead of competing among yourselves, why not join heads together and make a good project or learn something from each other cos no one knows all and we always learn in our life.

1 Like

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by chineduojukwu03: 12:22pm On May 31
You have to be good at logic, not necessarily advanced math-wise. I think that anyone who is good at coding has pretty decent basic arithmetic and algebra skills. Mathematics is a very wide and deep field with many many subfields, many of which don’t apply to web dev. If your question was in relation to machine learning than the answer would probably be a big YES.

2 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by phemmyfour: 12:26pm On May 31
sexylassie2:
For all those learning and advertising python to wannabe programmers, stop wasting your time.

If you don't have good mathematics background or love for data,you will fail big time.
You can say that again
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by CSTRR: 12:37pm On May 31
What I hate most in this field of endeavour are the gatekeepers.

Too many gatekeepers who think they own programming.

5 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by BarrElChapo(m): 12:39pm On May 31
interesting read..
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by sangresan(m): 12:45pm On May 31
ProfAmaben:

Logic is needed not mathematics. Math itself is a subset of logical reasoning.

Logic is needed not Maths. Maths is a subset of logical reasoning blah blah blah.

Dude, you don't know what you're saying.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by MrArche: 12:47pm On May 31
Get your professional Bitcoin, Forex and Banking website @ArcheHub <08131247152, 08126869497>
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by sangresan(m): 12:47pm On May 31
hardebayho:


You talk about the mathematics like it's some sort of requirement for programming. It's not all of programming that requires maths. In fact, I can think of a few. In web development, I can develop a CMS using PHP without having to worry about ANY mathematics whatsoever (unless you're regarding basic arithmetic like addition, subtraction, division and multiplication as mathematics, which, of course every body that attended even primary school already knows). In fact, I've made plenty websites using PHP, and I don't recall using any mathematics of some sort. Let's not be scaring newbies that are trying to learn this stuff with maths jawe. I'm not saying maths is not a good skill to have with your programming knowledge, it's just NOT a requirement. You can do pretty fine in programming even if you don't know maths.

You're still saying the same thing...All what you referred to are mundane.

1 Like

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by ahahnow: 12:55pm On May 31
Interesting post. I'd like to see more programming posts on the fp please
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by sangresan(m): 12:57pm On May 31
LSarcastic:


Yeah, it is filled with advanced mathematics. But that is limited to the scope of computer science as a course and not programming as a discipline. When it comes to programming, knowledge of mathematics is not required but it is helpful. You can't tell me that to build Nairaland, Seun Osewa did some differential calculus to make db queries.

Same as Python. Python is not only for ML and AI. You can use it to build websites and write small scripts to automate stuffs. Not everyone learns Python to do ML and AI(like me for example). I used Python(Django specifically) to build https://www.bonychicken.com and I did not do a single calculation.

As I said, if you're talking about ML and AI, you're right. But if you're referring to Python or Programming in general, your statement is false.

So Mathematics is limited to differential calculus?

This is the reason why it's useless debating on Nigerian forums. You use Python and other programming languages which were developed by those who know the value. Can you develop such a proprietary technology without knowledge of theoretical Computer Science and Mathematics? You're simply using knowledge created by others and you cannot ever compete with them..Shikena

1 Like

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by DissTroy(m): 12:59pm On May 31
lordally:


Since you're not in programming then I guess you shouldn't talk about what you have no full knowledge about o... Cos people without good maths knowledge can be good in software development

Some things are just practical. Most aspects of programming are more of logic than advanced mathematics.

If X=10 then 3X=3 x 10 = 30.

Just logic and not exactly advanced.

But she's right about data structures and data bases. At least intermediate mathematics is required.

2 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Ten06(m): 1:00pm On May 31
The fact is that if you don't read computer science in school you won't have indept knowledge of programming like the ones that got their degree in school.
Who do not go will not know what he missed
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Joshuam1(m): 1:03pm On May 31
Even those that spend their entire time copying and pasting code will say web developers need mathematics!

1 Like

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by DissTroy(m): 1:05pm On May 31
CSTRR:
What I hate most in this field of endeavour are the gatekeepers.

Too many gatekeepers who think they own programming.

LOL. Gatekeepers. Especially the 'influencer' ones on Twitter (some teenagers) creating long threads daily on how-tos about CSS, JavaScript and Python but when you ask for the projects they've created with these, they chicken out.

Proof of your programming (especially web development skills) is your portfolio. Anything else might just be something you searched on Google or copied from StackOverflow.

Joshuam1:
Even those that spend their entire time copying and pasting code will say web developers need mathematics!
All hail Stack Overflow. cheesy

1 Like

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by anochuko01(m): 1:07pm On May 31
Karex81:

Programming language like python, c++, c etc
requires good knowledge of maths especially vectors, linear algebra.
I was shocked when i saw vectors from secondary school, used in game programming.
Game development and artificial intelligence are on another level. And only a little fraction of developers do that, even outside the country. Also, the market isn't here in Nigeria, that's why our people aren't focusing on it.

3 Likes

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by 99thEnemy(m): 1:42pm On May 31
sexylassie2:
For all those learning and advertising python to wannabe programmers, stop wasting your time.

If you don't have good mathematics background or love for data,you will fail big time.
I swear down! grin

I started with html, moved to C++, got fraustrated with OOP.

Jumped to PHP procedural for backend development, realised I needed OOP to keep up.

Had to learn it by hook or by crook to use the modern frameworks such as Yii2 and Laravel .

Went back to C++ and continued after fully understanding OOP

Win32 Api gave me headache.

Stuck with backend development with PHP and writing of complex algorithms for automation and programable logic controllers with C++

Later on I decided to checkout whats up with AI and ML ... Discovered I had to take a dive into Python because its the language that favors the above because of the availabilty of many libraries for the purpose.

Was disappointed with the syntax and how losely typed it is coming from a well structured C++ background.

To cut it short... Python as a first language will lead to fraustration if you want to move to another language, such as C++, PHP and Java.

Just as you said, for AI, ML and DS, one MUST be maths inclined.. Statistics to be precised.

I am from an engineering background so it was not a problem for me though.

And not to forget... One should know and understand logic.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by labi1977(m): 1:46pm On May 31
lordally:


This just states the obvious , that you don't know what you're really talking about!! grin grin

Why do some women say silly things n they don't know what they are talking about just arguing to seem smart

Here arguing with actual programmers when she probably can't write a line of code

Well I hope she has learnt something today

(1) (2) (3) (4) (Reply)

Your Future As A Software Developer / Please How Do I Remove Shortcut Virus On My Android. / Arduino Programming Boards, Shields, And Sensors Purchases

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2021 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 178
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.