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Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. - Programming (4) - Nairaland

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Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate / Please Help! How Can I Be A Self-taught Programmer/developer? / Self Taught Journey {8 Weeks Goal} April 13 -june 7 2019 (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by chineduuf: 6:09pm On May 31
Saw this after typing a whole note. This is the last time I am ever trying to draw the line between the two, they just hate the fact that real and grounded CS graduates are preferred at the top and makes more. They can continue competing with the worst CS graduates and feel that's what CS encompass.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Karleb(m): 6:35pm On May 31
chineduuf:
Saw this after typing a whole note. This is the last time I am ever trying to draw the line between the two, they just hate the fact that real and grounded CS graduates are preferred at the top and makes more. They can continue competing with the worst CS graduates and feel that's what CS encompass.

Bro, who are your comments directed to? undecided

You people should calm down. No one is competing with you CS graduates. The sky is big enough and you people are more preferred.

Besides, there is more to CS than software development/engineering.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by jimmynauty: 6:37pm On May 31
iLearner:


You're right actually.

But again, I feel people shouldn't just delve into some aspects of programming without some mathematical background. I am a Statistics student and I know how much of advanced Statistics there is in Data Science.

Thanks for this info

Wanted to do masters in DS.
But don't like statistics.
Will continue CS
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Nobody: 6:45pm On May 31
Grandlord:


For a self-taught developer who wants to get a job quickly it will take a long time learning core concepts of computer science and so it is not necessary considering the situation. So they can go on and learn the frameworks and apply for jobs.

But to stay relevant and indispensable and to completely understand what you're working with, you need to stay curious and continue learning instead of saying algorithms and maths are not necessary...which is ignorant.

As a matter of fact, with the advent of no-code and less-code platforms and tools, a developer who doesn't go deeper in learning will find himself irrelevant and redundant because the shallow things he knows how to do will be taken over by drag-and -drop... which is already happening today with Wix etc.
Funny enough it's true, the people who make those frameworks are more useful than the ones who depend on them blindly.

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Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Nobody: 6:51pm On May 31
tosinhtml:


I am average in maths, no shame in making this pronouncement, It has affected me in some areas but not so much. No one would really say math is not needed to be honest.

Those sorting algorithms are actually easy to understand & I didn't need to be a math guru to understand sorting algorithms. Those examples are every where online for Quicksort, Merge sort etc for anyone who wants to learn.

If you want to see the algorithm behind sorting, you can easily double click on the core function itself using any IntelliJ IDE or other IDEs, It should show you the function behind it. It is not as complicated as you make it seem.



Seeing the code doesn't change much man, understanding the algorithm behind it means more than reading code worst of all, algorithm complexities are rubbish to the CPUs eyes, some instructions take more time to compute for example the trivial a == 0 takes more time to compute than a xor a, of course compilers take care of this but there are others which a compiler can't really optimise, programming has to be understood both on the logic, mathematical and hardware level.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Drella(m): 6:55pm On May 31
tensazangetsu20:

Mathematics can be learnt o. Don't discourage anyone. Most people have really bad mathematics backgrounds because of the rubbish teachers we had in secondary schools in Nigeria. There are a lot of online courses and sites that teach mathematics really well.

Where can I lay my hands on these courses and sites?
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by ReactJs(m): 6:58pm On May 31
chineduuf:
Saw this after typing a whole note. This is the last time I am ever trying to draw the line between the two, they just hate the fact that real and grounded CS graduates are preferred at the top and makes more. They can continue competing with the worst CS graduates and feel that's what CS encompass.

Bro what the f#ck are you even saying?? Didn't you read the part where i said getting a CS degree is not a joke and should not be treated as such?? After you've gotten a Cs degree, wouldn't you choose an area of specialty?. Let me even burst your brain, whatever branch of computer science you choose to specialize in, a random dude can take those same lessons and know exactly what you know (if not more). Both Harvard and Stanford CS classes are on youtube. If you and i both apply for the same role at google, whoever demonstrates practical knowledge in form of actual software created is who's gonna get hired.

What do you mean by real and grounded Cs graduates are preferred at the top and makes more? Do you not understand that every employer in the tech ecosystem wants to see what you can actually do? Like practical, niched knowledge. I've seen this play out time and time again.

Make una dey calm down abeg

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Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by leumas91: 7:08pm On May 31
I can relate to this. I attempted building the sort function in JavaScript on my own. Understood the logic behind it but coding it in an efficient way? Boy oh boy my brain hear am! I had to abort mission!! embarassed
Grandlord:


Emphasis on BIG DATA cool

A software engineer can't be 'average in maths' . He must be very proficient in discrete mathematics, Boolean algebra, etc.

The confusion here is that people fail to understand that there are levels in software development. There are programmers that depend on reusable tools built by other engineers, to do their work. Such tools are abstractions of the tedious mathematical and logical work. But the work had already been done by other engineers more versed in computational maths and logic.

For instance, you can easily use a sort() function to sort your array and move on. But the sort function itself has probably hundreds of lines of mathematical proofs of time efficiency, logic and algorithms underneath it and was written by more versed engineers to make life easier for other programmers.

A programmer who uses tools built by core software engineers should not be oblivious of the work those engineers did and the knowledge there acquired to be able to build those tools. It just shows ignorance and shallowness and it is out of this ignorance they think maths is not needed in programming.

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Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by antiterrorism(m): 7:27pm On May 31
How many programmers could actually develop compilers.?
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Gfskw: 7:57pm On May 31
Really
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Karleb(m): 8:00pm On May 31
antiterrorism:
How many programmers could actually develop compilers.?

There is something called, Stomach Driven Development. You have to eat and be okay to think of building a compiler.

A company like Google was already okay and successful as a search engine before thinking of other things.

Building a compiler is something that can be learnt by anyone interested.

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Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by tosinhtml: 8:56pm On May 31
Grandlord:

You can see the code for the sorting algorithms alright but do you understand how that code came about? the very reasoning behind it, and why it was written that way?...do you understand the time and space complexity analysis needed to arrive at that code in terms of CPU operations?

You can sort an array in many different ways... quick sort, mergesort, insertion sort, bubblesort etc but why do we choose quicksort and mergesort? do you understand which is fastest in terms of Big O analysis?
Can you prove it mathematically? Do you understand why almost all programming languages use the quicksort algorithm for their sorting function?

How long would it take to sort 1billion data in a dataset with insertion sort? Will we wait forever? Can we do it with a better algo like quicksort? Can we even invent a better algo than quicksort?

There was a time insertion sort was the big thing...but as data grew, we needed to make computers search and sort things faster, so people invented the code for quicksort and the rest we use today. The tool they used? Mathematics.

I'm not trying to make things look complicated. It is what it is. Being the curious person that I am, I dig deeper into anything I'm interested in learning and that makes me understand and appreciate the very fundamentals of it. It is also through this understanding that new and better inventions can be made.

No one says you don't need math but that you cannot be average in math and do well is false.

With enough dedication and practice, you will be fine with data structures and algorithms.

Anyone doing Algo would always consider time and space analysis, Big O and all. That's not a new thing. Usually in interviews, you will be told to make your code better and more efficient after you write a brute force solution.

Now you can choose to do more research, you will find the different reasons and when to use each sorting algorithm and the benefit of each.

This is not rocket science bro! I don't have strength to argue.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Nobody: 9:10pm On May 31
Karleb:


There is something called, Stomach Driven Development. You have to eat and be okay to think of building a compiler.

A company like Google was already okay and successful as a search engine before thinking of other things.

Building a compiler is something that can be learnt by anyone interested.
grin I hear. Until you get into parser algorithms.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Nobody: 9:14pm On May 31
antiterrorism:
How many programmers could actually develop compilers.?
Back then in the previous century any programmer that had time because a whole lot of them where either self taught Comp scientists or Comp scientists who meet through school. Now, I no one is really interested, it's a big plus for your portfolio but OS dev is the new hobby of most serious minded programmers (by serious minded I mean purist nerds)
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Karleb(m): 9:19pm On May 31
SegFault:

grin I hear. Until you get into parser algorithms.

If you can learn it, a certain dedicated Amarachi from Abakaliki can.

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Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Nobody: 9:23pm On May 31
Karleb:


If you can learn it, a certain dedicated Amarachi from Abakaliki can.
I never learn anything oh gringrin writing the codes for the algorithms would make your source code look like Satan's incantations.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by SonOfTheRisingS: 12:16am On Jun 01
tensazangetsu20:

Mathematics can be learnt o. Don't discourage anyone. Most people have really bad mathematics backgrounds because of the rubbish teachers we had in secondary schools in Nigeria. There are a lot of online courses and sites that teach mathematics really well.

You have said it as it is, Nigerian educational system is a total waste of time and money, school operatives are the worst set of instructors/teachers on Earth.

Biafra educational system will be school of money and knowledge.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by labi1977(m): 3:25am On Jun 01
lordally:


Hahahaha actually it's not a woman thing sha it's actually an individual thing irrespective of sex. Asked that Software development can be learnt without the knowledge of maths or it can be learnt which just the little basics. When she talked about the focus on Polish and Ukraine programmers I laugh die!!! She no know say Companies dey cry say Foreign companies don almost Poach All the senior developers for Nigeria finish ....

Another clueless statement Nigerians are cashing out all the way to Nasa

1 Like

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by toby345(m): 9:02am On Jun 01
chineduuf:
Bro, you are just a hater trying to glorify yourself and your self taught skills. There is a clear line between a CS graduate and a self taught programmer. If you even know what computer science encompasses, you will not make this comparison. I am CS graduate and a self taught programmer alike.

No offense, the same ignorance that drives this post is still why your so called "Self thought programmer" don't go far. If you have worked in a fortune 1000 company you must have come across the phrase "Coding Monkey". This is a term used for people who just learn coding without learning things like algorithms and the entire process of a software development lifecycle. All you know is, Create, Read, Update and Delete.
How many of your so called Self taught programmers can boldly explain how an element is searched in an array? You just know there is a function that comes with the programming language that does that. How fast or efficient it is doesn't concern you. All you know is that it works. Given a task, you can always go to stack overflow and copy a solution without analyzing resource consumption and time complexity.
Go to Google and tell them you are a self taught. Even an average CS graduate don't make it up there because there is a lot.

I can talk on this all day, but let me stop here. And by the way, they don't teach you how to code in CS, they teach you algorithms and you can learn any programming language to implement your algorithm.

The only insecure person I see here... Well.
You guys are trying though, no doubt. But c'mon, y'all should let it rest, there is a clear line. Don't compare someone who just went to get a certificate with someone who actually studied computer science.

Cheers!
bro I have seen non CS graduates get into FAANG most are self taught it only takes time and determination
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by Mbmohammed(m): 9:07am On Jun 01
Hey all. Pls is there anyone that can recover email with two step verification for a fee? If you can do pls contact me.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by lordally(m): 10:46am On Jun 01
Karleb:


There is something called, Stomach Driven Development. You have to eat and be okay to think of building a compiler.

A company like Google was already okay and successful as a search engine before thinking of other things.

Building a compiler is something that can be learnt by anyone interested.

"Stomach Driven Development" guuuuuuy you don keeh me finish grin grin grin grin grin grin I swear you dey gimme joy

1 Like

Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by hardebayho(m): 7:38pm On Jun 01
sangresan:


You're still saying the same thing...All what you referred to are mundane.

I'm definitely not catching what you're saying
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by DeHill(m): 9:00pm On Jun 01
Lordpeckxy:
Am a computer science graduate and I learnt the hard way my self.!
Pls can u expanciate? Thanks!
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by tosinhtml: 2:19pm On Jun 02
leumas91:
I can relate to this. I attempted building the sort function in JavaScript on my own. Understood the logic behind it but coding it in an efficient way? Boy oh boy my brain hear am! I had to abort mission!! embarassed

I don't think you know what understanding means. If you understood it, you should be able to write the solution, In fact you would be able to do it with different languages, not only Javascript. If you cannot break complex problems into easy explanations to yourself and others, then you don't understand it enough.
Re: Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. by tosinhtml: 2:21pm On Jun 02
tensazangetsu20:

Mathematics can be learnt o. Don't discourage anyone. Most people have really bad mathematics backgrounds because of the rubbish teachers we had in secondary schools in Nigeria. There are a lot of online courses and sites that teach mathematics really well.

Thank you o, same problem I had. Maths teachers were terrible, I never liked maths because of this. Funny that recently I have been picking it up & loving it. I keep wondering why I hated it before, It struck me that it was the useless teachers that taught me in Federal secondary school then.

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