So whats the controversy about?

You get my point @ nuclearboy

I do understand @Kunle's point. The wolves disguising as MOGs are the ones that we should avoid planting our seeds into their "Ministry of Deception.". By their fruit you shall know them. It is up to the believer to be able to discern.

As per tithing ain't nothing wrong with it.

^^ I do. But what they are saying above is that giving is different from tithes even though tithes requires putting cash down. The difference is in ownership - I give MY money. The tithe-mongers want people to PAY tithes and say its not their money. Its the compulsion, the fear mongering and the cunning that Kunle and Zikky talk of.

Collection for the saints was giving, NOT tithing.

But the desire today is to make it compulsory AND tie upliftment to it because they know many will stop if they realize its not the ticket to wealth as they try to advertise it currently. It is that dishonesty that is being fought against above

2 Corin 9:7
So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

The above should put that "argument" to rest. They should read the "PARABLE OF THE SAMARITAN" and learnt to apply wisdom to every situations.

The reason for saying "Tithing is mandatory" is that, if you are in a position to meet a need which you can surely afford, as a follower of Christ, u are obliged to step in. In contrast, it will be accounted as FOOLISHNESS to pay your tithes in church, while at the same time the Kids school fees needs to be paid
.
Simple logic and common sense. That is my point.

^^ BECAUSE of those who will twist your words as you can see they already did above, why not simply say "GIVING IS MANDATORY"?

That clears the air and you will see Kunle/Zikky have NO problems with that. It is the traders in God's Temple that will complain at that

"Tithing/Giving" is mandatory

Tithing and Giving is the same thing to me jare.

Does anyone have an issue with the above statement?

Okay - let me use a God favored friend's style.

Can you, yommuk, pay a tithe of 40%? NO, because a tithe is 10%. But you can GIVE 40%, right?

In you, you have a right heart and thus, you see the words as just semantics since you won't take whats not yours. But these people are using your good intentions to support their own evil intentions.

Yes oooo

To me, there is Liberty in Christ. Nobody can hold me down

TITHES IS A JEWS FRAUD. I still wonder how people believe paying money to church/organization, is a way to worship GOD? So who eat money on behalf of God?

@yommy
You still haven't been able to show any scripture to justify mandatory tithing in christianity. All the scriptures you quoted relate to freewill giving in the churcg which is totally different from tithes which has diffrent rules.

Tithing is mandatory for all Christians if not why are those who do not tithe called robbers if it was not mandatory for them to tithe.
It's more like keeping what does not belong to you.

Azibalua:

Tithing is mandatory for all Christians if not why are those who do not tithe called robbers if it was not mandatory for them to tithe.
It's more like keeping what does not belong to you.

Stop talking rubbish. tithing may be compulsory for you but not to Christians. Do you even know that there was nothing like christianity when God spoke those words ?

You are under bondage if you continue to let all those una fake pastors feed on your gullibility.

Jesus Christ does not need your 10% my dear, He needs your heart!!!

^^
Jesus does not need your 10% but Azibaula and other so called men of god need it, so they continue to manipulate scripture and use mass intimidation to extort 10% of the gullible's earnings.

nuclearboy:

@Kunle & Zikky:

Let us for even one moment imagine that though Christ never collected tithes, His being our high priest and therefore a form of levite requires that tithes be paid to Him.

We know that in the OT, tithes belonged to Levite, widow, needy and stranger and they used them for their enjoyment since it was their God given right.

Christ has in His Own Dispensation told us what His enjoyment is - Give it to me! And He says to give Him, give to the poor and needy. That is how Christ says it gets to Him.

So whats the controversy about? Let the cunning MOGs devise plans around something else but if anyone wishes to pay tithe, it should be as the owner has demanded which is by giving to the needy. If that needy is a pastor, fine! If it is an Orphan, fine! If it is someone temporarily hard up, fine! But nobody can justify giving Billions to a few people. Even Aaron was not regarded a special person cash-wise. And Christ also was not so these criminals resemble neither Aaron or Christ and those are the only two dispensations till date. These are just mainly lazy people

True talk

yommyuk:

2 Corin 9:7
So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

The above should put that "argument" to rest. They should read the "PARABLE OF THE SAMARITAN" and learnt to apply wisdom to every situations.

The reason for saying "Tithing is mandatory" is that, if you are in a position to meet a need which you can surely afford, as a follower of Christ, u are obliged to step in. In contrast, it will be accounted as FOOLISHNESS to pay your tithes in church, while at the same time the Kids school fees needs to be paid

I do understand you need a justification for your tithing activities. But please do listen to yourself. You are not talking about tithing. What you have been preaching is giving, not tithing. You only deceive yourself and the not so smart and desperate Christians.

Don’t let the pastors foo.l you, there is nothing like tithing as you purposes in your heart, there is nothing like tithing 20%, 40%. These are all giving. Tithing is a tenth, and nobody in the bible paid more than a tenth as tithe in the bible. Tithing restrict giving (to 10%), and some people might feel justified having rendered his/her 10%. So you are likely to do more damage than good, when you encourage people to give 10% (especially when they can give more). By doing this you also bring rules (the setting of thresh-holds) into giving, it is no longer giving as you purposes in your heart.

Giving is good, it reflects love (if done with a sincere heart). Giving a tenth of your income to your church (as you purposes in your heart) is not a bad thing. God did not set this rule for you, if it was based on your love for God and your love for your neighbor, he will accept your offering.

Please go ahead and render a tenth of your income to the church if that is what you want to do. You do not need to provide justification.

I just need you to get this out of your head; God did not (Edit) mandate you to give in percentages, Christ did not request giving in percentages, the apostle did not preach giving in percentages. The Lord will be most pleased if you can give your all.

Azibalua:

Tithing is mandatory for all Christians if not why are those who do not tithe called robbers if it was not mandatory for them to tithe.
It's more like keeping what does not belong to you.

This is the problem I have with you people You justify your action with Malachi (which refers to the tithing requirement under Mosaic law), when you are harassed, you run off to hide behind Melchizedek, your high priest (having rejected Christ as your high priest). Maybe Melchizedek told you tithe is mandatory, or did Melchizedek call non tithe paying Christians robbers? Please don’t take this as an insult (that’s not the intention), but I think you are a candidate for rehab, you need to get the ROR off your blood stream, pick the bible please.

yommyuk:

"Tithing/Giving" is mandatory

Tithing and Giving is the same thing to me jare.

Does anyone have an issue with the above statement?

If you see tithing and giving as the same, it’s most likely you don’t give more than 10%. Please don’t tell me you measure true Christian love in percentages

KunleOshob:

^^
Jesus does not need your 10% but Azibaula and other so called men of god need it, so they continue to manipulate scripture and use mass intimidation to extort 10% of the gullible's earnings.

Ah baba
Pls oh,I am not ordained to collect tithe oh, it does not belong to me or do you collect for god it is only on the altar where the fire of god burns that tithes are dropped and only certain people ordained by god are fit to touch it.

I pay mine consistently

Azibalua:

Ah baba
Pls oh,I am not ordained to collect tithe oh, it does not belong to me or do you collect for god it is only on the altar where the fire of god burns that tithes are dropped and only certain people ordained by god are fit to touch it.

I pay mine consistently

@Kunleoshob,
when tithing matters and pastors come into your mind, all you need to do is take a closer look into the mirror
And you'll see the answers you seek

NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE pays the Biblical tithe today.

Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18: The First Tithe - a tenth of crops and animals and commanded to take the tithe to the Levites.

Deuteronomy 14:22-27: The Second Tithe aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29: The Third Tithe aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.

Now, tell me. Which of the above three tithes commanded by God does anyone follow today?

The ONLY people in the Old Testament that were commanded to tithe were those who INHERITED THE PROMISED LAND WITH EVERYTHING ON IT. They got the land, house, animals, crops, etc. ALL FREE AND CLEAR. No mortgage payment or rent to pay. And THEY were commanded to tithe on the crops and animals and take it to the Levites who INHERITED the tithe INSTEAD OF the promised land with everything on it. No one else tithed. Wage earners did not tithe. Jesus didn’t tithe. Paul didn’t tithe. Peter didn’t tithe.

HOW CAN YOU COMPARE THAT WITH CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE TO PAY THEIR MORTGAGE PAYMENT OR RENT, INCOME TAXES, PROPERTY TAXES, SALES TAXES, ETC?

There is no way to justify making some “principle” out of the Biblical facts and then apply it to Christians today. It is just flat out wrong and makes no sense at all.

Isn't it odd that even though Abram gave a tenth directly to Melchizedek, the king/priest, that some Christians think they can give directly to God by giving it to their pastor?

I find it quite offensive that pastors have appointed themselves to be the receiver of what belongs to God. After all, the pastor says the tithe belongs to God. Then he self-appoints himself to receive the tithe!!!

God never gave any pastor or church permission to receive his tithe or his gifts. God commanded His tithe be taken to the Levites, FOREVER, in Numbers 18.

Since the tithe belongs to God, if your pastor accepts it isn't he stealing it from God?

Lucky for those of you who think you tithe, you are merely giving a tenth of your income to your church. You aren't paying the Biblical tithe or you would be disobeying God's command to take His tithe to the Levites. But then, if in your heart you are paying the Biblical tithe, wouldn’t that be sinning by breaking God's commands?

@yommy
You still haven't been able to show any scripture to justify mandatory tithing in christianity. All the scriptures you quoted relate to freewill giving in the churcg which is totally different from tithes which has diffrent rules.

@kunle

How can you say I should "Justify" tithing? Have your read my previous post and the title of the thread?

When God told the Israelites to tithe, was it to justify themselves? It seems you are not getting my point. Why does the word "Tithe" irritate you? Have you tithed in the past to some pastor that "Chopped and Cleaned his mouth as if nothing happened ?" Please tell us your experience

!. Giving is an expression of Love
2. Tithing is an expression of Love
3. Love is mandatory
4. Tithing is mandatory.
5. To love is to honor God
6. To give is to honor God
7.  To tithe is to honor God

People who give/tithe to recieve honor from a pastor/people is totally different from what I am talking about.

In regards to % giving or tithing, that is another topic entirely.

garyarnold:



The ONLY people in the Old Testament that were commanded to tithe were those who INHERITED THE PROMISED LAND WITH EVERYTHING ON IT. They got the land, house, animals, crops, etc. ALL FREE AND CLEAR. No mortgage payment or rent to pay. And THEY were commanded to tithe on the crops and animals and take it to the Levites who INHERITED the tithe INSTEAD OF the promised land with everything on it.  No one else tithed.  Wage earners did not tithe.  Jesus didn’t tithe.  Paul didn’t tithe.  Peter didn’t tithe.

HOW CAN YOU COMPARE THAT WITH CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE TO PAY THEIR MORTGAGE PAYMENT OR RENT, INCOME TAXES, PROPERTY TAXES, SALES TAXES, ETC?

I find it quite offensive that pastors have appointed themselves to be the receiver of what belongs to God.  After all, the pastor says the tithe belongs to God.  Then he self-appoints himself to receive the tithe!!!

God never gave any pastor or church permission to receive his tithe or his gifts.  God commanded His tithe be taken to the Levites, FOREVER, in Numbers 18.

Since the tithe belongs to God, if your pastor accepts it isn't he stealing it from God?

Firstly, who are the levites
Secondly who should we then give our tithes to if not our pastors?
Thirdly, if i trade in diesel or crude, what should be my tithe
if i'm the owner of a transport company,l what do i tithe, is it the bus, the fuel or the passengers

@mabell said, "Firstly, who are the levites
Secondly who should we then give our tithes to if not our pastors?
Thirdly, if i trade in diesel or crude, what should be my tithe
if i'm the owner of a transport company,l what do i tithe, is it the bus, the fuel or the passengers"

The Levites were SERVANTS TO THE PRIESTS. They were the ushers, musicians, singers, etc. and they worked at the Temple about two weeks PER YEAR, not full time.

Since God said to take His tithe to the Levites, and there are no Levites today, you can't tithe today.

Jesus didn't tithe. Paul didn't tithe. Peter didn't tithe. The farm workers (other than the land owners) did not tithe. Wage earners did not tithe. God defined His tithe as a tenth of crops and animals raised on the Holy land. NOTHING ELSE QUALIFIES.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

I do understand you need a justification for your tithing activities. But please do listen to yourself. You are not talking about tithing. What you have been preaching is giving, not tithing. You only deceive yourself and the not so smart and desperate Christians.

why does the word "Tithe" rub you up the wrong way? Why should I justify why I tithe to you or anybody else? To me tithing is what I give consistently as an expression of God's love towards me. He that made me a source of blessing is the one whom I glorify with my tithes. How can you say I am deceiving myself and others. Do you know my inner motive for tithing. I beg think maturely bro  Has someone decieved U in the past? if that is the case, ask yourself what was your motive to give. Search yourself bro

quoteDon’t let the pastors foo.l you, there is nothing like tithing as you purposes in your heart, there is nothing like tithing 20%, 40%. These are all giving. Tithing is a tenth, and nobody in the bible paid more than a tenth as tithe in the bible. Tithing restrict giving (to 10%), and some people might feel justified having rendered his/her 10%. So you are likely to do more damage than good, when you encourage people to give 10% (especially when they can give more). By doing this you also bring rules (the setting of thresh-holds) into giving, it is no longer giving as you purposes in your heart.

@Zik, Look, I have been around the block and I know the score. Who is fooling who? You are the one that is fooling me by tagging/Limiting "TITHES" as a 10% giving. % giving is contrary to what I am talking about. When Abram tithed, it was an acknowledgement of Melchizedek as a spiritual superior(Priest/Pastor) and affirmation that God had given him the victory. Looking at the Law of Moses, I like what I see. Tithing as an acknowledgment for honoring God for his goodness and giving me the grace to have more than enough to give; especially to the gospel/needy. For me it is mandatory to tithe and I will continue to encourge(Not Force) other believers to emulate such.

Giving is good, it reflects love (if done with a sincere heart). Giving a tenth of your income to your church (as you purposes in your heart) is not a bad thing. God did not set this rule for you, if it was based on your love for God and your love for your neighbor, he will accept your offering.

True word So why the debate? This thread was to encourge and not to force people to tithe.

Your words

Giving a tenth of your income to your church (as you purposes in your heart) is not a bad thing. God did not set this rule for you, if it was based on your love for God and your love for your neighbor, he will accept your offering

God did mandate you to give in percentages, Christ did not request giving in percentages, the apostle did not preach giving in percentages. The Lord will be most pleased if you can give your all

True word bro

Are you ready to start tithing/Giving to the gospel or Give your all

Never too late

The word "tithe" means a tenth, or a tenth part. It does NOT mean giving.

Abram gave a TENTH of the war spoils. That is why the KJV uses the word "tithe" in Genesis 14. But notice in Hebrews:
Hebrews 7:4 (KJV) "Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. "

To use the word "tithe" to mean giving any amount is an incorrect usage of the word.

The word "tithe" means a tenth, or a tenth part.  It does NOT mean giving.

Abram gave a TENTH of the war spoils.  That is why the KJV uses the word "tithe" in Genesis 14.  But notice in Hebrews:
Hebrews 7:4 (KJV)  "Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. "

To use the word "tithe" to mean giving any amount is an incorrect usage of the word.

Therefore if I choose to give(Tithe) 10% of my income, is that wrong?

What of if I give 20%, give me a word for that one?

Words eh?

Can someone tell me why Abram choose to give(tithe) 10% and not 50% or 5%? Why 10%

or

Why God asked for 10% in the book of Lev and not 5% or 50%. Why 10%

Giving a tenth of your income is just that - giving a tenth of your income. There is no name for it.

Why did Abram give a tenth?

The number ten symbolizes a whole item, and also completion.

From Christian Resources Today, “Ten : 10 - Biblical Meaning of Number: deals with completeness that happens in a divine order or completed during a course of time. There's nothing that is left wanting within the complete cycle the number ten has just completed.”

That would be the reason for a tenth and not 2 tenths, etc. One tenth would symbolize completeness; a complete transaction.

I count just over 300 occurrences of the words ten or tenth in the KJV of the Holy Bible. 95% occur before Calvary. The number 10 has much significance in the Old Testament but virtually no significance in the New Testament. In fact, some of the few times those words appear after Calvary it is in reference to the Old Covenant.

At Calvary, the Old Covenant came to its completion. There is nothing after Calvary to suggest that the number ten represents completion.

In the New Testament, God wants 100% of us. Since we are now under grace, rather than use percentages or guidelines for giving, God will look at our heart. Many will have a false sense of security by following the Old Testament tithing law as a guideline when maybe God wants that person to give 50% or more. Using the Old Testament law as a guideline is opposite to using the Holy Spirit.

At Calvary, the Old Covenant came to its completion.

Another topic which I do not want to go into now. But bible tell us in 2 Corin 1:18-22 is that Our Lord is a faithful God whose OT promises are fulfilled in the Messiah. Christ became the means by which God won us all back to himself. Christ became one with sinful mankind hence releasing God's saving power and righteousness to restore the broken relationship between us and God. The broken convenant was restored in Christ. We broken the old convenant, God didn't. God's part of the deals still stands, our end is faith in christ. The old Convenant was never abolished but restored in the New. I called it repackaged.

Using the Old Testament law as a guideline is opposite to using the Holy Spirit.

Are u saying that the OT is no more relevant and of no use to a Christian? I disagree?

Giving a tenth of your income is just that - giving a tenth of your income. There is no name for it.

What is wrong with the word "tithe"? if the Holy Spirit leads a Christian to tithe, Let it be . As long as a believer meets the following criteria.

1. Coming from a willing mind/heart and a good motive.
2. Tithing not grudgingly but joyfully.
3. As a act of generousity which can sometimes be sacrificial.

The Debate should be about the handling of the tithes/gifts which calls for honesty, integrity and care. Those who handle monetary gifts in the church should be persons of proven reputation and responsibility which is not always the case. Even the so called needy sometimes exploit the givers.

What you are calling tithing has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Biblical tithe which was a PAYMENT.

Matthew 5:17-18 states Christ came to fulfill the law and not abolish it.

This is where some education in law is useful. What does fulfill mean? What does abolish mean?

Let me give an example. A legal contract is enforceable under the law. Let’s say you hire a contractor to build a swimming pool in your back yard. Once the contractor has completed the job, and everything in that contract has been completed, the contract has been fulfilled. The contractor’s job is to fulfill the contract, not abolish it. He fulfills it by completing the terms, bringing it to an end.

Consider:

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV) - In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Colossians 2:14 (KJV) - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Galatians 5:18 (KJV) - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 3:19 (KJV) - Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. In other words, until Jesus came and fulfilled the law.

Galatians 3:23-25 (KJV)
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:10-14 (KJV)
10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

As far as the Old Testament relevancy today, ONLY THAT which was carried forward into the New Testament is what Christians are to follow. The substance of NINE of the Ten Commandments was carried forward. The OT had 613 laws and you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to bring forward.

yommyuk:

why does the word "Tithe" rub you up the wrong way?

You really believe it does 

yommyuk:

Why should I justify why I tithe to you or anybody else?

This is my position as well, you don’t need to. But you spend time doing that in the course of encouraging me to tithe.

yommyuk:

To me tithing is what I give consistently as an expression of God's love towards me. He that made me a source of blessing is the one whom I glorify with my tithes.

Good for you 

yommyuk:

How can you say I am deceiving myself and others.

You are. What you are telling me to do here is give not tithe.

yommyuk:

Do you know my inner motive for tithing.

I don’t need to know, I am not interested. It’s of no value to me 

yommyuk:

Has someone decieved U in the past? if that is the case, ask yourself what was your motive to give. Search yourself bro

Sorry to disappoint you, but I have never given a tenth of my income to my pastor or Church (as a registered entity different from the members). You are the one attempting to deceive me here

yommyuk:

@Zik, Look, I have been around the block and I know the score. Who is fooling who? You are the one that is fooling me by tagging/Limiting "TITHES" as a 10% giving.

Fool you ke? I am only trying to remove the olumo rock in your eye with my state of the art, fast selling (& super effective) ‘eye cleaner’

yommyuk:

When Abram tithed, it was an acknowledgement of Melchizedek as a spiritual superior(Priest/Pastor) and affirmation that God had given him the victory.

Okay, if you say so 

yommyuk:

Looking at the Law of Moses, I like what I see. Tithing as an acknowledgment for honoring God for his goodness and giving me the grace to have more than enough to give; especially to the gospel/needy.

Good for you. I really like this post If you continue with posts like this, I just might tithe

yommyuk:

For me it is mandatory to tithe

Ba wahala.

yommyuk:

I will continue to encourge(Not Force) other believers to emulate such.

Ensure they don’t end up gamblers and see God as a 'kalo-kalo' machine. You can do that by not interpreting the bible to suit your message.

God did mandate you to give in percentages,

My apologies for the error, the post below has been corrected.

Zikkyy:

God did not (Edit) mandate you to give in percentages, Christ did not request giving in percentages, the apostle did not preach giving in percentages. The Lord will be most pleased if you can give your all.

yommyuk:

Are you ready to start tithing/Giving to the gospel or Give your all

I already told you I do give, but not in tithes. You are not satisfied with that 

garyarnold:


The Levites were SERVANTS TO THE PRIESTS. They were the ushers, musicians, singers, etc. and they worked at the Temple about two weeks PER YEAR, not full time.
Since God said to take His tithe to the Levites, and there are no Levites today, you can't tithe today.

So who are the present day workers in the church, the full time church staff
Are they not the levites?

mabell:

So who are the present day workers in the church, the full time church staff
Are they not the levites?

dont deceive yourself. Levites were pure blooded isrealites from a Descent,a Lineage. Dont spew your rubbish here. theres no spiritual levites duh.