AntiChristian:


Which Bible do you know? Is it not the Holy spirit that guides you led you to call me Mugu before?

Receive you sight organ, oya say Amen.. I still have them for you in plenty

AntiChristian:


What does wery asinwin etc mean? Let me just report u sef.

Slave boy, what does ignoramus and mugun means?

AntiChristian:


Was God doing that before? If not, then it's a change.

What type of response is this. I didn't even get what you wrote

advocatejare:


So you've agreed that the Quran Muhammad received has been tampered with, so where is the original Quran given to muhammad without diacritical and standardization by any human being

Well, i dont know what you mean by tampered with.

The Uthmaniyyah compilation of the qur'an is the original qur'an sent to Muhammad (SAW) and that is the qur'an you will find with every muslim that owns a qur'an world wide.
Uthman was one of the khaliph of the Prophet. He had sufficient knowledge of the qur'an as recited by the Prophet, together with other Hafizhul qur'an, they made a compilation which till today remains the true copy of the Glorious Qur'an. Any other qur'an is a fake copy. Those copies destroyed by Uthman were the counterfit copies that emerged. Which also prompted the standardization.
As muslims, we must learn the qur'an in it original language, Arabic before, any other language. The qur'an recited in China is the same with the one recited in Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Ghana, USA, France,Japan, Argentina, Brazil, and anywhere you can think of in the world.
Allahu Akbar!!!.

The qur'an has no versions, but there are different interpretations into other languages of the world.

advocatejare:


So you've agreed that the Quran Muhammad received has been tampered with, so where is the original Quran given to muhammad without diacritical and standardization by any human being

Well, i dont know what you mean by tampered with.

The Uthmaniyyah compilation of the qur'an is the original qur'an sent to Muhammad (SAW) and that is the qur'an you will find with every muslim that owns a qur'an world wide.
Uthman was one of the khaliph of the Prophet. He had sufficient knowledge of the qur'an as recited by the Prophet, together with other Hafizhul qur'an, they made a compilation which till today remains the true copy of the Glorious Qur'an. Any other qur'an is a fake copy. Those copies destroyed by Uthman were the counterfit copies that emerged, Which also prompted the standardization "harakalization".
As muslims, we must learn the qur'an in it original language, Arabic before, any other language. The qur'an recited in China is the same with the one recited in Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Ghana, USA, France,Japan, Argentina, Brazil, and anywhere you can think of in the world.
Allahu Akbar!!!.

The qur'an has no versions, but there are different interpretations into other languages of the world.

If you have any copy of the qur'an that is not the Usmaniyyah compilation, you have a fake qur'an there. Q.E.D.

mhmsadyq:

Well, i dont know what you mean by tampered with.

The Uthmaniyyah compilation of the qur'an is the original qur'an sent to Muhammad (SAW) and that is the qur'an you will find with every muslim that owns a qur'an world wide.
Uthman was one of the khaliph of the Prophet. He had sufficient knowledge of the

The qur'an has no versions, but there are different interpretations into other

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOEgRed3za0

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOEgRed3za0

Sorry i didnt watch your video.
If there is anything you want me to know from the video, kindly type.

mhmsadyq:



Well, i dont know what you mean by tampered with.

The Uthmaniyyah compilation of the qur'an is the original qur'an sent to Muhammad (SAW) and that is the qur'an you will find with every muslim that owns a qur'an world wide.
Uthman was one of the khaliph of the Prophet. He had sufficient knowledge of the qur'an as recited by the Prophet, together with other Hafizhul qur'an, they made a compilation which till today remains the true copy of the Glorious Qur'an. Any other qur'an is a fake copy. Those copies destroyed by Uthman were the counterfit copies that emerged. Which also prompted the standardization.
As muslims, we must learn the qur'an in it original language, Arabic before, any other language. The qur'an recited in China is the same with the one recited in Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Ghana, USA, France,Japan, Argentina, Brazil, and anywhere you can think of in the world.
Allahu Akbar!!!.

The qur'an has no versions, but there are different interpretations into other languages of the world.

Muhammad died in 632 AD

Abu Bakr the first Caliph ruled for 2 years during which he started the first compilation and he completed it before he died and kept it.

The second caliph Umar ruled for 10 years from 634-644AD and he was in custody of manuscripts until he died after which Hafsa his daughter kept custody of it.

During the rule of Uthman (who ruled 12years after Muhammad had died) that is more than 12 years after the first Quran was compiled. Uthman ruled for 12years so in between those 12 years while he was ruling, people called his attention to the different ways people were reciting the Quran (which has been the norm even when Muhammad was alive and he didn't think of unifying the Quran into one dialect because Muhammad himself said the Quran was revealed to him in 7 different dialects)


But Uthman decided to unify the Quran into one standardized version when neither Allah nor Muhammad gave him such Instruction when he was alive.

So Uthman sent for the manuscript with Hafsa
"...So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies."... Sahih Bukhari 6:61:510


So Uthman then ordered his scribes to write the new Quran in the dialect of the Quraysh and when they were done with their editing and standardization they buried the evidence of their alterations by burning the evidence.


"...'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt..." Sahih Bukhari 6:61:510

Hence the Quran sent to all provinces were compiled during the reign of Uthman who started ruling 12 years after Muhammad died and ruled for another 12 Years and the compilation and editing was done within his 12 Years of rule, which was 652 A.D.20years after Muhammad had died

Also, as at that 652 A.D. there was no diacritical marks in Arabic language, it only came into existence in 8th century and the 9th century, long after Muhammad had died and long after Uthman had given out his own standardized version of the Quran

The arabic skeletal script is without the diacritical marks and vowelization:
Fathah = ah
Dhammah = oo
Kasrah = ii

None of the above dialect marks existed in the time of the prophet or Uthman in 652 AD and the present day Quran has them

That means nobody in the world has the original Quran with the original language without diacritical marks and vowelizations and that means the Quran compiled is not the same as the one Muhammad received

WHERE IS THE QURAN GIVEN TO MUHAMMAD?

mhmsadyq:



Well, i dont know what you mean by tampered with.

The Uthmaniyyah compilation of the qur'an is the original qur'an sent to Muhammad (SAW) and that is the qur'an you will find with every muslim that owns a qur'an world wide.
Uthman was one of the khaliph of the Prophet. He had sufficient knowledge of the qur'an as recited by the Prophet, together with other Hafizhul qur'an, they made a compilation which till today remains the true copy of the Glorious Qur'an. Any other qur'an is a fake copy. Those copies destroyed by Uthman were the counterfit copies that emerged. Which also prompted the standardization.
As muslims, we must learn the qur'an in it original language, Arabic before, any other language. The qur'an recited in China is the same with the one recited in Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Ghana, USA, France,Japan, Argentina, Brazil, and anywhere you can think of in the world.
Allahu Akbar!!!.

The qur'an has no versions, but there are different interpretations into other languages of the world.

Quran has many versions with different meanings. Hafs, Warsh and the rest

mhmsadyq:



Well, i dont know what you mean by tampered with.

The Uthmaniyyah compilation of the qur'an is the original qur'an sent to Muhammad (SAW) and that is the qur'an you will find with every muslim that owns a qur'an world wide.
Uthman was one of the khaliph of the Prophet. He had sufficient knowledge of the qur'an as recited by the Prophet, together with other Hafizhul qur'an, they made a compilation which till today remains the true copy of the Glorious Qur'an. Any other qur'an is a fake copy. Those copies destroyed by Uthman were the counterfit copies that emerged, Which also prompted the standardization "harakalization".
As muslims, we must learn the qur'an in it original language, Arabic before, any other language. The qur'an recited in China is the same with the one recited in Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Ghana, USA, France,Japan, Argentina, Brazil, and anywhere you can think of in the world.
Allahu Akbar!!!.

The qur'an has no versions, but there are different interpretations into other languages of the world.

If you have any copy of the qur'an that is not the Usmaniyyah compilation, you have a fake qur'an there. Q.E.D.

See different versions of Quran


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6Zc67FrpWU

advocatejare:


Muhammad died in 632 AD

Abu Bakr the first Caliph ruled for 2 years during which he started the first compilation and he completed it before he died and kept it.

The second caliph Umar ruled for 10 years from 634-644AD and he was in custody of manuscripts until he died after which Hafsa his daughter kept custody of it.

During the rule of Uthman (who ruled 12years after Muhammad had died) that is more than 12 years after the first Quran was compiled. Uthman ruled for 12years so in between those 12 years while he was ruling, people called his attention to the different ways people were reciting the Quran (which has been the norm even when Muhammad was alive and he didn't think of unifying the Quran into one dialect because Muhammad himself said the Quran was revealed to him in 7 different dialects)


But Uthman decided to unify the Quran into one standardized version when neither Allah nor Muhammad gave him such Instruction when he was alive.

So Uthman sent for the manuscript with Hafsa
"...So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies."... Sahih Bukhari 6:61:510


So Uthman then ordered his scribes to write the new Quran in the dialect of the Quraysh and when they were done with their editing and standardization they buried the evidence of their alterations by burning the evidence.


"...'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt..." Sahih Bukhari 6:61:510

Hence the Quran sent to all provinces were compiled during the reign of Uthman who started ruling 12 years after Muhammad died and ruled for another 12 Years and the compilation and editing was done within his 12 Years of rule, which was 652 A.D.20years after Muhammad had died

Also, as at that 652 A.D. there was no diacritical marks in Arabic language, it only came into existence in 8th century and the 9th century, long after Muhammad had died and long after Uthman had given out his own standardized version of the Quran

The arabic skeletal script is without the diacritical marks and vowelization:
Fathah = ah
Dhammah = oo
Kasrah = ii

None of the above dialect marks existed in the time of the prophet or Uthman in 652 AD and the present day Quran has them

That means nobody in the world has the original Quran with the original language without diacritical marks and vowelizations and that means the Quran compiled is not the same as the one Muhammad received

WHERE IS THE QURAN GIVEN TO MUHAMMAD?

Seem not satisfied?
Sorry i cant help you!

advocatejare:


Quran has many versions with different meanings. Hafs, Warsh and the rest

Ok.

Yes there are different recitations of the qur'an even during the time of the Prophet. I think it has to do with the dialect of the different reciters. Agree, sometimes it might change the meaning.


In Nigeria there is the Hafs and Warsh recitation that i know of and they are both acceptable.

[quote author=advocatejare post=92863387]

See different versions of Quran


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6Zc67FrpWU[/quo

Though i didnt watch the video, but any qur'an outside the Usmaniyyah compilation is a counterfeit copy.

mhmsadyq:

Sorry i didnt watch your video.
If there is anything you want me to know from the video, kindly type.

Like I've said over and over again the deceit of many of you Moslems is phenomenal.

You are given videos but you refuse to watch.

You agree that there is the Hafs version and Warsh version. Thank God you didn't deny that. But advocatejare showed you differences between these two. Not video this time but in writing and you have very conveniently ignored them.

Can you react to those ones if you're truthful.

Are you running away from something? Your shadow perhaps?

The argument of 'different recitations' is just a lame one. Mohamed's people needed 7 'recitation' to be able to read or recite the Koran YET today millions of other people can use one.

If Uthman canonised only one version or like you guys want to say 'recitation' where is Uthman's version. Since according to Islam he destroyed other Koran where did these other recitations appear from?

You guys simply want to run with your own PERCEIVED picture of Islam. That is why you run from the truth about Islam. When you are given video you ask for the transcript. When transcript is given you will ask for hadith confirmation. When hadith is given the argument will turn to 'weak', 'fabricated' or whatever.

Hafs version of the Koran is accepted widely by Moslems yet Islamic scholars have rejected this same man's  (Hafs) hadiths. What an irony. A man rejected as being unreliable now has his Koran accepted by majority. That is the ridiculousness of Islam.

And now what you are coming up with is 'counterfeit compilation'. Who came up with the counterfeits? Non-Moslems?
How come Islam can't come up with a position to tell the world of the genuine ones for all books of Islam. Wouldn't that save the world of all these rigmarole?

The reality is that you guys are simply attempting to give us a picture of Islam - a whitewashed picture actually - that even your prophet Mohamed will disagree with were he alive today.

Your scholars never agree on anything. At the end of the day it's always 'Allah knows best', as if that in itself is an answer to anything. Instead of facing reality what you appear to be doing is hiding.

mhmsadyq:
Though i didnt watch the video, but any qur'an outside the Usmaniyyah compilation is a counterfeit copy.

That means all the current Quran you have in the world today are fake because Usman destroyed all the other Qirats and gave you only one Qirat but 300 Years after, Ibn Mujahid synthesized the new 7 Qirats from nowhere and that's the source of the Quran you're reading today.

After the compilation they burnt other manuscripts of the Quran which was against what Mohammed said, Mohammed said the Quran was revealed to him in 7 different dialects but after Uthman and Zayd were done with their fabrications they burnt all the other Quranic manuscripts including the other dialects of revelation.

The instructions to burn the other manuscripts was never given by Muhammad before he died nor by Allah, Zayd and Uthman only acted on their own accounts, and they burnt the evidence to cover up their fabrications and gave the Muslim world the revised edition of the Quran.

But the Shia were angry because they knew the Quran had been corrupted.

The Muslims continue to read Uthmanic codex of the Quran until 934 AD when ibn Mujahid read that Muhammad actually said he received the Quran in 7 different dialects but since Uthman and Zayd had burnt the other dialects up, Ibn Mujahid then created his own 7 dialects of the Quran which are Nafi; Ibn Kathir; Ibn 'Amir; Abu Amr; Asim, Hafs; Hamzah; al-Kisai.

In 1924 in Cairo Egypt, The Hafs manuscript was edited into the Quran you have today.

Hence today's Quran is not the same as the one Mohammed received, it's not the same as the one Uthman and Zayd fabricated, it's a different one entirely. Go and learn my friend

sagenaija:

Like I've said over and over again the deceit of many of you Moslems is phenomenal.

You are given videos but you refuse to watch.

You agree that there is the Hafs version and Warsh version. Thank God you didn't deny that. But advocatejare showed you differences between these two. Not video this time but in writing and you have very conveniently ignored them.

Can you react to those ones if you're truthful.

Are you running away from something? Your shadow perhaps?

The argument of 'different recitations' is just a lame one. Mohamed's people needed 7 'recitation' to be able to read or recite the Koran YET today millions of other people can use one.

If Uthman canonised only one version or like you guys want to say 'recitation' where is Uthman's version. Since according to Islam he destroyed other Koran where did these other recitations appear from?

You guys simply want to run with your own PERCEIVED picture of Islam. That is why you run from the truth about Islam. When you are given video you ask for the transcript. When transcript is given you will ask for hadith confirmation. When hadith is given the argument will turn to 'weak', 'fabricated' or whatever.

Hafs version of the Koran is accepted widely by Moslems yet Islamic scholars have rejected this same man's  (Hafs) hadiths. What an irony. A man rejected as being unreliable now has his Koran accepted by majority. That is the ridiculousness of Islam.

And now what you are coming up with is 'counterfeit compilation'. Who came up with the counterfeits? Non-Moslems?
How come Islam can't come up with a position to tell the world of the genuine ones for all books of Islam. Wouldn't that save the world of all these rigmarole?

The reality is that you guys are simply attempting to give us a picture of Islam - a whitewashed picture actually - that even your prophet Mohamed will disagree with were he alive today.

Your scholars never agree on anything. At the end of the day it's always 'Allah knows best', as if that in itself is an answer to anything. Instead of facing reality what you appear to be doing is hiding.

Are saying anything different from the video you posted?

Truly "Allah knows best".
You are only interested in the argument as to the authenticity of the qur'an. Bring any copy or copies of the qur'an you have and present to any muslim around you and he will identify the true certified copy, simple!

I dont need to convince you, if you already took a position to be in doubt.

mhmsadyq:


Ok.

Yes there are different recitations of the qur'an even during the time of the Prophet. I think it has to do with the dialect of the different reciters. Agree, sometimes it might change the meaning.


In Nigeria there is the Hafs and Warsh recitation that i know of and they are both acceptable.

The emboldened has confirmed that Quran has versions. Versions means variant, so if the same aya of the Quran has different meanings what more can be used to describe such than version.

mhmsadyq:


Are saying anything different from the video you posted?

Truly "Allah knows best".
You are only interested in the argument as to the authenticity of the qur'an. Bring any copy or copies of the qur'an you have and present to any muslim around you and he will identify the true certified copy, simple!

I dont need to convince you, if you already took a position to be in doubt.

It is unfortunate that you can't even watch a short video. I wonder if you are running away from getting to know the truth about Islam.

The video shows Mohamed Hijab's attempt to argue that Yasir Quadhi's claim that there are "holes in the narrative" that the Koran has been perfectly preserved is not true.

He claims first that in 10 different readings of the Koran the only difference is in one word rendered either as 'malik' or 'mali' ( 'king' or 'owner') - in Sura Fatiha.

However in Ibn Mujahid's Kitab al-sab'ah fi al- qira'at (pg. 705-778) the number of variations came to 1,247.

Mohamed Hijab in referring to the same work had said that it was "just over 700" variations mentioned in the work. But it turns out not to be so.

This shows how Moslem apologists lie and confuse their audience and followers. They know that many of you don't bother to check even your own history or books.

And this is only for 7 different Korans.

Even ONE difference is enough to burst the claim of "PERFECT" preservation. Perfect preservation means there shouldn't even be ONE variation or difference.

Can you

Agree, sometimes it might change the meaning.

and still claim perfect preservation?

So, the argument that the Koran has never been changed but has remained 'dot for dot', 'letter for letter' the same since Mohamed's time is just NOT TRUE.

Any claim to the contrary is a big lie. Like the popular saying goes - 'You can fool some of the people all the time. You can fool all the people some of the time. But you cannot fool all the people all of the time'.

Islam will crumble under the weight of its falsehood and lies.

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
It is unfortunate that you can't even watch a short video. I wonder if you are running away from getting to know the truth about Islam.

The video shows Mohamed Hijab's attempt to argue that Yasir Quadhi's claim that there are "holes in the narrative" that the Koran has been perfectly preserved is not true.

He claims first that in 10 different readings of the Koran the only difference is in one word rendered either as 'malik' or 'mali' ( 'king' or 'owner') - in Sura Fatiha.

However in Ibn Mujahid's Kitab al-sab'ah fi al- qira'at (pg. 705-778) the number of variations came to 1,247.

Mohamed Hijab in referring to the same work had said that it was "just over 700" variations mentioned in the work. But it turns out not to be so.

This shows how Moslem apologists lie and confuse their audience and followers. They know that many of you don't bother to check even your own history or books.

And this is only for 7 different Korans.

Even ONE difference is enough to burst the claim of "PERFECT" preservation. Perfect preservation means there shouldn't even be ONE variation or difference.

Can you
and still claim perfect preservation?

So, the argument that the Koran has never been changed but has remained 'dot for dot', 'letter for letter' the same since Mohamed's time is just NOT TRUE.

Any claim to the contrary is a big lie. Like the popular saying goes - 'You can fool some of the people all the time. You can fool all the people some of the time. But you cannot fool all the people all of the time'.

Islam will crumble under the weight of its falsehood and lies.

"Islam will crumble under the weight of its falsehood and lies"

LOL!
This is what its all about?
I am only trying to correct the wrong perception of advocatejere about the compilation of the Glorious Qur'an. You couldn't stomach your hatred!

Anyway,

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 507:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

(The Caliph 'Uthman ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Said bin Al-As, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham to write the Quran in the form of a book (Mushafs) and said to them. "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit (Al-Ansari) regarding any dialectic Arabic utterance of the Quran, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, for the Quran was revealed in this dialect." So they did it.


Volume 6, Book 61, Number 507:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

(The Caliph 'Uthman ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Said bin Al-As, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham to write the Quran in the form of a book (Mushafs) and said to them. "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit (Al-Ansari) regarding any dialectic Arabic utterance of the Quran, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, for the Quran was revealed in this dialect." So they did it.


Volume 6, Book 61, Number 514:

Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab:

I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle and I listened to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which Allah's Apostle had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I controlled my temper, and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, "Who taught you this Sura which I heard you reciting?" He replied, "Allah's Apostle taught it to me." I said, "You have told a lie, for Allah's Apostle has taught it to me in a different way from yours." So I dragged him to Allah's Apostle and said (to Allah's Apostle),

"I heard this person reciting Surat Al-Furqan in a way which you haven't taught me!" On that Allah's Apostle said, "Release him, (O 'Umar!) Recite, O Hisham!" Then he recited in the same way as I heard him reciting. Then Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way," and added, "Recite, O 'Umar!" I recited it as he had taught me. Allah's Apostle then said, "It was revealed in this way. This Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever (way) is easier for you (or read as much of it as may be easy for you)."


Ask a Yoruba man to recite a verse from the Qur'an and ask an Igbo man to recite the same verse, or a Hausa man to recite the same verse. Listening to them, you might think they all recited different verses cos of mother tongue interference. This was also the case with the different Arabic dialects during the Prophet's time.
That was what Uthman wanted to get rid of by bringing all dialects at that time to one, which was noble.

With "TAJWID" now being introduced into Qur'anic recitation, a Muslim anywhere in the world can recite the Qur'an even better than a Quraishi and the meaning will be same anywhere.



Maalik means king
Malik means owner
spelt the same, without Harakat.
When you pronounce Malik in place of Maalik it will affect the meaning.

This is not peculiar to the Arabic language alone.

advocatejare:

The emboldened has confirmed that Quran has versions. Versions means variant, so if the same aya of the Quran has different meanings what more can be used to describe such than version.

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23)


Volume 6, Book 61, Number 582:

Narrated Abdullah:

That he heard a man reciting a Quranic Verse which he had heard the Prophet reciting in a different way. So he took that man to the Prophet (and told him the story). The Prophet said, "Both of you are reciting in a correct way, so carry on reciting." The Prophet further added, "The nations which were before you were destroyed (by Allah) because they differed."

mhmsadyq:



Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23)


Volume 6, Book 61, Number 582:

Narrated Abdullah:

That he heard a man reciting a Quranic Verse which he had heard the Prophet reciting in a different way. So he took that man to the Prophet (and told him the story). The Prophet said, "Both of you are reciting in a correct way, so carry on reciting." The Prophet further added, "The nations which were before you were destroyed (by Allah) because they differed."

I've emboldened all the key points for you.

1. Quran was not perfect until Uthman made it so

2. Uthman burnt the other Qirats after he was done with standardization of the Quran

3. It was the standardized Quran that he sent to all provinces and not the original Quran received by Muhammad.


As at the time Uthman did this around 652AD there were no diacritical marks and vowelization in the Arabic language, they came 100-200 years later and the current Quran have them, that means Quranic was later edited so that diacritical marks and vowelization could be added many years after Uthman had died.

Can you produce the Uthmanic Quran without diacritical marks and vowelization today? No, if yes, show us.

After the compilation they burnt other manuscripts of the Quran which was against what Mohammed said, Mohammed said the Quran was revealed to him in 7 different dialects but after Uthman and Zayd were done with their fabrications they burnt all the other Quranic manuscripts including the other dialects of revelation.

The instructions to burn the other manuscripts was never given by Muhammad before he died nor by Allah, Zayd and Uthman only acted on their own accounts, and they burnt the evidence to cover up their fabrications and gave the Muslim world the revised edition of the Quran.

But the Shia were angry because they knew the Quran had been corrupted.

The Muslims continue to read Uthmanic codex of the Quran until 934 AD when ibn Mujahid read that Muhammad actually said he received the Quran in 7 different dialects but since Uthman and Zayd had burnt the other dialects up, Ibn Mujahid then created his own 7 dialects of the Quran which are Nafi; Ibn Kathir; Ibn 'Amir; Abu Amr; Asim, Hafs; Hamzah; al-Kisai.

In 1924 in Cairo Egypt, The Hafs manuscript was edited into the Quran you have today.

Hence today's Quran is not the same as the one Mohammed received, it's not the same as the one Uthman and Zayd fabricated, it's a different one entirely. Go and learn my friend

mhmsadyq:


"Islam will crumble under the weight of its falsehood and lies"

LOL!
This is what its all about?
I am only trying to correct the wrong perception of advocatejere about the compilation of the Glorious Qur'an. You couldn't stomach your hatred!

Anyway,

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 507:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

(The Caliph 'Uthman ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Said bin Al-As, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham to write the Quran in the form of a book (Mushafs) and said to them. "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit (Al-Ansari) regarding any dialectic Arabic utterance of the Quran, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, for the Quran was revealed in this dialect." So they did it.

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 507:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

(The Caliph 'Uthman ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Said bin Al-As, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham to write the Quran in the form of a book (Mushafs) and said to them. "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit (Al-Ansari) regarding any dialectic Arabic utterance of the Quran, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, for the Quran was revealed in this dialect." So they did it.

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 514:

Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab:

I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle and I listened to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which Allah's Apostle had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I controlled my temper, and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, "Who taught you this Sura which I heard you reciting?" He replied, "Allah's Apostle taught it to me." I said, "You have told a lie, for Allah's Apostle has taught it to me in a different way from yours." So I dragged him to Allah's Apostle and said (to Allah's Apostle),

"I heard this person reciting Surat Al-Furqan in a way which you haven't taught me!" On that Allah's Apostle said, "Release him, (O 'Umar!) Recite, O Hisham!" Then he recited in the same way as I heard him reciting. Then Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way," and added, "Recite, O 'Umar!" I recited it as he had taught me. Allah's Apostle then said, "It was revealed in this way. This Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever (way) is easier for you (or read as much of it as may be easy for you)."

Ask a Yoruba man to recite a verse from the Qur'an and ask an Igbo man to recite the same verse, or a Hausa man to recite the same verse. Listening to them, you might think they all recited different verses cos of mother tongue interference. This was also the case with the different Arabic dialects during the Prophet's time.
That was what Uthman wanted to get rid of by bringing all dialects at that time to one, which was noble.

With "TAJWID" now being introduced into Qur'anic recitation, a Muslim anywhere in the world can recite the Qur'an even better than a Quraishi and the meaning will be same anywhere.

Maalik means king
Malik means owner
spelt the same, without Harakat.
When you pronounce Malik in place of Maalik it will affect the meaning.

This is not peculiar to the Arabic language alone.

How come anytime one shows the negative side of Islam they next thing you guys resort to is to shout 'hatred!'?

No Christian hates Moslems. We cannot. We are called to love even our enemies. We rather PITY Moslems. They have fallen into deception and most of them don't know it. With the contradictions and inconsistencies in Islam it is only a matter of time for many to see the truth and leave Islam. The Internet is making many of them see things they would ordinarily have never been told by islamic teachers.

In fact, but for the stranglehold of Islam, over the years, on many in the Islamic countries the situation today would be completely different. The Sharia laws and other regulations in Islamic countries have ensured that Islam is held there by force rather than by individuals free choices. Allow freedom of religion in Islamic countries and we will have a different story for Islam.

I hope you are seeing that all you posted above lends credence to the fact of what we have been saying: The Koran has not been perfectly preserved. It evolved. It went through changes.

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
How come anytime one shows the negative side of Islam they next thing you guys resort to is to shout 'hatred!'?

No Christian hates Moslems. We cannot. We are called to love even our enemies. We rather PITY Moslems. They have fallen into deception and most of them don't know it. With the contradictions and inconsistencies in Islam it is only a matter of time for many to see the truth and leave Islam. The Internet is making many of them see things they would ordinarily have never been told by islamic teachers.

In fact, but for the stranglehold of Islam, over the years, on many in the Islamic countries the situation today would be completely different. The Sharia laws and other regulations in Islamic countries have ensured that Islam is held there by force rather than by individuals free choices. Allow freedom of religion in Islamic countries and we will have a different story for Islam.

I hope you are seeing that all you posted above lends credence to the fact of what we have been saying: The Koran has not been perfectly preserved. It evolved. It went through changes.

"No Christian hates Muslims".
I guess you are new on nairaland.


"The Qur'an has not been perfectly preserved".
You are entitled to your opinion.

I am a Muslim and i have spoken for islam in my little ways anywhere need be, including here on nairaland.
There are more Muslims on this forum that are speaking for islam on any issue brought up by you and your likes to smear Islam, its Prophet and Muslims. Also there are over 2 billion Muslims all over the world that you have to deal with if you are serious with this your campaign to crumble Islam. Subhanallah!

There are more Muslims in the world today, than there were during the time of the Prophet and even the Khaliphs put together.

Just to add; A quick one. The Prophet told us that he will be the Messenger with the largest Ummah on the day of judgement. The words of the Prophet is true.

I dont think you stand any chance! Good luck.

Nice chatting with you.

advocatejare:

I've emboldened all the key points for you.

1. Quran was not perfect until Uthman made it so

2. Uthman burnt the other Qirats after he was done with standardization of the Quran

3. It was the standardized Quran that he sent to all provinces and not the original Quran received by Muhammad.


As at the time Uthman did this around 652AD there were no diacritical marks and vowelization in the Arabic language, they came 100-200 years later and the current Quran have them, that means Quranic was later edited so that diacritical marks and vowelization could be added many years after Uthman had died.

Can you produce the Uthmanic Quran without diacritical marks and vowelization today? No, if yes, show us.

After the compilation they burnt other manuscripts of the Quran which was against what Mohammed said, Mohammed said the Quran was revealed to him in 7 different dialects but after Uthman and Zayd were done with their fabrications they burnt all the other Quranic manuscripts including the other dialects of revelation.

The instructions to burn the other manuscripts was never given by Muhammad before he died nor by Allah, Zayd and Uthman only acted on their own accounts, and they burnt the evidence to cover up their fabrications and gave the Muslim world the revised edition of the Quran.

But the Shia were angry because they knew the Quran had been corrupted.

The Muslims continue to read Uthmanic codex of the Quran until 934 AD when ibn Mujahid read that Muhammad actually said he received the Quran in 7 different dialects but since Uthman and Zayd had burnt the other dialects up, Ibn Mujahid then created his own 7 dialects of the Quran which are Nafi; Ibn Kathir; Ibn 'Amir; Abu Amr; Asim, Hafs; Hamzah; al-Kisai.

In 1924 in Cairo Egypt, The Hafs manuscript was edited into the Quran you have today.

Hence today's Quran is not the same as the one Mohammed received, it's not the same as the one Uthman and Zayd fabricated, it's a different one entirely. Go and learn my friend

OK.

mhmsadyq:



The Prophet told us that he will be the Messenger with the largest Ummah on the day of judgement.

Largest ummah in hellfire? Muhammad had said his ummah will divide into 73 and 72 will be in Fire.

“My ummah will divide into 73 sects, all of them will be in the Fire except for one, and that is the Jamā’ah.” It was said, “And who are they, O Allah’s Messenger?”
He responded, “That which I and my Companions are upon today.”
-Jam'i at-Tirmidhi 40/2641

The words of the Prophet is true.

Let's see if you're right. If you're right, then the world shouldn't bother about finding vaccines and cure for Corona virus, cancers, HIV/AIDS and other diseases. Prophet Muhammad had told us about a wonder drug that cures all ailment.

Narrated By Abu Huraira
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "There is healing in black cumin for all diseases except death."
-sahih Bukhari 7:71:592

advocatejare:

Largest ummah in hellfire? Muhammad had said his ummah will divide into 73 and 72 will be in Fire.

“My ummah will divide into 73 sects, all of them will be in the Fire except for one, and that is the Jamā’ah.” It was said, “And who are they, O Allah’s Messenger?”
He responded, “That which I and my Companions are upon today.”
-Jam'i at-Tirmidhi 40/2641


Let's see if you're right. If you're right, then the world shouldn't bother about finding vaccines and cure for Corona virus, cancers, HIV/AIDS and other diseases. Prophet Muhammad had told us about a wonder drug that cures all ailment.

Narrated By Abu Huraira
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "There is healing in black cumin for all diseases except death."
-sahih Bukhari 7:71:592

THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET IS TRUE.

You still cant confuse just me! Work harder.

mhmsadyq:



THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET IS TRUE.

You still cant confuse just me! Work harder.

yes it's true black cumin has been healing all diseases including Covid 19

mhmsadyq:



THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET IS TRUE.

You still cant confuse just me! Work harder.

Yes, his word is true like these ones:

The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease
Sahih Bukhari 4:54:537


"...As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her
"-Sahih Bukhari 4:55:546

Science has made us know that the type of sperm whether x or y that fertilizes a woman's egg is that determines a baby's gender and not the fallacy of who discharges first

mhmsadyq:

"No Christian hates Muslims".
I guess you are new on nairaland.
"The Qur'an has not been perfectly preserved".
You are entitled to your opinion.
I am a Muslim and i have spoken for islam in my little ways anywhere need be, including here on nairaland.
There are more Muslims on this forum that are speaking for islam on any issue brought up by you and your likes to smear Islam, its Prophet and Muslims. Also there are over 2 billion Muslims all over the world that you have to deal with if you are serious with this your campaign to crumble Islam. Subhanallah!
There are more Muslims in the world today, than there were during the time of the Prophet and even the Khaliphs put together.
Just to add; A quick one. The Prophet told us that he will be the Messenger with the largest Ummah on the day of judgement. The words of the Prophet is true.
I dont think you stand any chance! Good luck.
Nice chatting with you.

It is obvious that you guys are blinded to some things or have deliberately decided to blind your eyes to some things.

I  know that for anyone who has been long in a religion that he trusted, it is difficult to simply drop it without a struggle.

But it is clear from your avoidance of certain questions and issues we have raised here that you have chosen NOT TO dig more into your religion. Subconsciously you're afraid that it might change your position about it. So you put up defence mechanisms.

You either outrightly reject what is presented or without investigation you convince yourself that what is being presented cannot be true. Even when they are from trusted islamic sources.

Advocatejare has presented differences in the Hafs version and Warsh version of the Koran. You deliberately avoided commenting on it. Why? Because you're trying to avoid the obvious.

You say "The words of the prophet are true" yet when the words of the prophet are quoted to you your response becomes "You can't confuse me" or "You are entitled to your own opinion". So, when it suits you the words of the prophet are true but when they don't line up with your expectations someone is trying to confuse you. Strange, isn't it? But is the reality of Islam.

Even if you are shown that Mohamed was not sure whether he will end up in hell or paradise you will contest the evidence. And when you are told that there is a sure way in Jesus Christ who said "If am the way, and the truth and the life" you will shrug it off.

At the end of the day it's a matter of life and death and the choice is yours.

advocatejare:

yes it's true black cumin has been healing all diseases including Covid 19

THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET IS TRUE.

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
It is obvious that you guys are blinded to some things or have deliberately decided to blind your eyes to some things.

I  know that for anyone who has been long in a religion that he trusted, it is difficult to simply drop it without a struggle.

But it is clear from your avoidance of certain questions and issues we have raised here that you have chosen NOT TO dig more into your religion. Subconsciously you're afraid that it might change your position about it. So you put up defence mechanisms.

You either outrightly reject what is presented or without investigation you convince yourself that what is being presented cannot be true. Even when they are from trusted islamic sources.

Advocatejare has presented differences in the Hafs version and Warsh version of the Koran. You deliberately avoided commenting on it. Why? Because you're trying to avoid the obvious.

You say "The words of the prophet are true" yet when the words of the prophet are quoted to you your response becomes "You can't confuse me" or "You are entitled to your own opinion". So, when it suits you the words of the prophet are true but when they don't line up with your expectations someone is trying to confuse you. Strange, isn't it? But is the reality of Islam.

Even if you are shown that Mohamed was not sure whether he will end up in hell or paradise you will contest the evidence. And when you are told that there is a sure way in Jesus Christ who said "If am the way, and the truth and the life" you will shrug it off.

At the end of the day it's a matter of life and death and the choice is yours.

I wasnt confused, you got frustrated. Eyaaaah!

When you presented trashes as evidences of how you intend to crumble Islam, What were you expecting?

To you, those trashes you called evidences were from heaven. Exceptional!

Should i hug you for those?

OK. Thank you. I am convinced not confused.
How can i meet you to lead me to your Jesus Christ?

Praiiiiiiiiiiiiise Thy Lorrrrrrrrrrd!

Congratulations. You have won a convert.

Hope you are glad now?

mhmsadyq:

I wasnt confused, you got frustrated. Eyaaaah!
When you presented trashes as evidences of how you intend to crumble Islam, What were you expecting?
To you, those trashes you called evidences were from heaven. Exceptional!
Should i hug you for those?
OK. Thank you. I am convinced not confused.
How can i meet you to lead me to your Jesus Christ?
Praiiiiiiiiiiiiise Thy Lorrrrrrrrrrd!
Congratulations. You have won a convert.
Hope you are glad now?

Finally!!