₦airaland Forum

TheLionofLasigi:
The trash is this pack of lies written on this thread by ipob flat heads...better they go do something with their misrable lives instead of jerking off to a history that doesn't exist

No, the facts has been entrenched in this thread your little tantrums. Name calling doesn't help here. It shows the extent of pains we inflicted on you.

IDENNAA:
No, the facts has been entrenched in this thread your little tantrums. Name calling doesn't help here. It shows the extent of pains we inflicted on you.

you can try to change history to suit you...but it doesn't change the fact that you're still beneath the Yoruba man, you see him in your dreams, you jerk hard to his name, you love his cities....but you'll never surpass the achievement of this great tribesmen. Because no matter what yall still a bush tribe.

Flatin0s trying to change history

This is nothing but lies, Benin no be una mate for civilization, in the 15th century, Benin was already an empire whereas decentralised Igbos were still scavenging the east in the Bush, no disrespect here.

yet Nri casted with bronze before then and it took Ife over 100 years later to achieve the same

TheLionofLasigi:
you can try to change history to suit you...but it doesn't change the fact that you're still beneath the Yoruba man, you see him in your dreams, you jerk hard to his name, you love his cities....but you'll never surpass the achievement of this great tribesmen. Because no matter what yall still a bush tribe.

Remember this was an Igbo thread but guess invaded it to measure up.....your guess is as good as mine. Lol. I tried not to do name calling, it's a trshy behavior.

IDENNAA:
Hahaha. You are not ready for history lessons. Your superiors have been annihilated on this topic , a thousand time!

who is my superior ?


like other thread you have failed to answer or prove question asked

Culture vultures invaded the thread, it's all good anyone with common sense will be able to see the truth

TAO11:
Before I proceed, please have the following firmly fixed at the back of your mind:

The identification of the Ogane as the Ooni of Ife was not simply imagined by me or some other random Nairalander. No, that is the very conclusion of historical scholarship world-wide.

On the other hand, the supposed identification of the Ogane as an Igbo king is simply the imagination of a handful of Igbo Nairalanders; and such idea has never, at any time, been held even by one scholar, of course for obvious reasons.

Now to the actual refutation/education I’m about to serve out here.

(1) The “east” information in the accounts was simply a received information from Benin. And as such, its presence in the Europeans’ accounts — in this received context — says absolutely nothing about the mind/intention of the Binis from whom it was received.

Having clarified that, it becomes obvious that the “east” of the accounts was not an independent information emanating from the Europeans themselves as their accounts weren’t compiled on the basis of some actual visit to the said Ogane’s kingdom.

Moreover, I have shown that all those saddled with the responsibility of identifying this Ogane of the European accounts have taken the “east” of the accounts non-literally, generally in the historical/religious sense of Ife as Oodaiye, Ibi ojumo tii mo wa — Ife: the source of the world, from where the sun rises.

(2) The information about the time it takes to journey from Benin to the Ogane’s kingdom (i.e. “twenty moons’ journey”) is likewise a received information from Benin which is interestingly accurate.

Guess what, I have an easy-to-follow Math computation which demonstrates neatly (based on received data from C.G. Okojie on the pace of a similar journey in olden times) that Ife indeed lies some “twenty moons’ journey” from Benin.

For this computation, see here.

Lol. Continue receiving enlightenment below:

(3) The specific information in the accounts regarding the distance from Benin to the Ogane’s Kingdom (i.e. two hundred and fifty leagues) is NOT itself a received information from Benin, but instead is the author’s supposition which he based on one of the received information.

How do we know this? We know this for the following reasons:

(i) A careful reading of the specific relevant aspect of de Barros’ account reveals this very clearly as follows:

“... at twenty moons’ journey — which ... would be about two hundred and fifty of our leagues — ...”

This shows clearly how the author presumed what the distance should be, based on the received information regarding the number of moons’ journey.

(ii) There is no reason whatsoever to think that the ancient Binis themselves (or even W/Africans of the time) had such a conception of distance in meters, kilometers, miles, leagues, etc.

Regarding your logic and challenge to me to ”present one Benin oba or Benin custodian of tradition of any Benin oba-endorsed writing in which they publicly denied NRI cultural or spiritual overlordship”:

Your logic here (if this can be called logic at all) is not only fallacious but also embarrassingly silly. I mean, literally every single kingdom in the world could “argue” along this same dumb line to claim some interesting overlordship over Benin.

After all, Benin Kingdom haven’t publicly denied the overlordship of any of the Cameroon kingdoms, etc. At this point you should have realized the extent of your argument’s dumb.ness.

And regarding Ife, scholars have demonstrated again and again how the apparent refusal of some modern Bini kings to continue to acknowledge Ife’s absolute overlordship is only a recent phenomenon motivated by modern supremacy politics.

This interesting modern attempt to twist the historical events and tradition as was first heard of from the Edos in the 1970s. I have discussed this at great length HERE.

However, traditions gathered in Benin, from the Benin palace by Captain Ernest Roupell in the late 1890s stated clearly that the first Oba of Benin is Eweka(1) who is a Yoruba man from Ife. This particular account is published in H. Ling Roth, (1903), p.7.

Moreover, the image shown in the attached screenshot below is a circa 1300C.E. ‘bronze’ sculpture of the then Ooni of Ife which was excavated from the palace of Benin kingdom.

This is yet again an ancient and hard evidence of Ife’s overlordship over Benin kingdom which corroborates the received traditional accounts by Roupell.

As I type, this artifact lies in the Benin Museum. The attached screenshot is from page 77 of Professor Suzanne P. Blier’s “Art in Ancient Ife, Birthplace of the Yoruba”

Bump.

=>https://www.nairaland.com/5761595/benin-kingdom-edo-state-remained/5#88244555

=>https://www.nairaland.com/6048841/how-unveil-promote-ancient-igbo/16#92824839

Impressive takes.

LegendHero:
Do you know the Yorubas have the 4 days week system as our ancient calendar called Kojoda?

The old Yoruba calendar is 4 days week and we only came to adopt the normal 7 days week of Aiku, Aje, Isegun, Ojoru, Ojobo, eti, and abameta due to the influence of the Europeans.

A Yoruba Kojoda calendar year (Kojoda) which starts on what is 3rd of June of a Gregorian calendar to the 2nd of June of the next Greogrian year has 91 weeks with each week having four days. So let us talk about the Yoruba week. The four days are:

OJO OGUN: The Yorubas count these four days of the week starting from Ojo Ogun (Day of Ogun, the god of iron). Ojo Ogun is the first day of traditional Yoruba week and it is the day when the Ologun or the worshippers and devotees of Ogun worship this particular deity. On Ojo Ogun, the Ologuns worship and celebrate with various food items that are considered to be the favourite of Ogun. These include ekuru (a kind of steamed bean pudding), ewa (beans) and iyan (pounded yam). However, the most important item of sacrifice on Ojo Ogun is the dog. Since Ogun like balanced diet, it looks like Ojo Ogun will be my own favourite day of the week o. By the way, in some other parts of Yorubaland, it is also called Ojo Osoosi, named after another god, Osoosi, who is regarded as the brother of Ogun and Sango.

OJO JAKUTA: After Ojo Ogun comes the second day of the week. Ojo Jakuta is also called Ojo Sango. Sango is the Yoruba god of thunder, lightning and (electricity). The day in some parts of Yorubaland is called Ojo Oya. On this day dedicated to Sango, his worshippers stream out wearing bright red and white attires as those are Sango’s favourite colours and they do the worship by presenting edible items like amala with gbegiri soup, bitter cola and guguru (pop corn). For Sango, the most important sacrificial animal is the ram. I think I will decamp to Ojo Jakuta. Jakuta means ‘Someone Who Fought With Stones’.

OJO OSE: This is the third day and it is set aside for the worship of Orisha Nla (The Great Deity). The favourite food item used for this day is the ake beef but snails are also used for the sacrifices. On this special day, all the worshippers of Orisha Nla wear white garments and clean all their houses and environs. This same day can be dedicated to the worship of Obatala, Sonponna (god of small pox), Iyaami (the Mothers or Great Witches) and the Egungun (Masquerades).

OJO AWO: Ojo Awo (Day of the Deity) is the day set aside for Ifa (Oracle) and just like Orisha Nla, Ifa also prefers delicacies made from the ake beef. This same day can also be dedicated for the worship of Esu, Osun and Orunmila.

Bump.

That's insightful

TAO11:
You’re obviously an illiterate that simply managed to master some spellings. The very screenshot you attached debunks the comment you wrote.


You can read below for more details and be educated:

(1) The idea that Ekaladerhan (Ogiso Owodo’s last son) is one and the same person as Oduduwa was first made-up out of inferiority complex by the Edos in the 1970s.

The Edo guys involved in this fabrication are:

(a) S.B. Omoregie in "Edo History", 1970 (b) E. Akenzua in “Benin was never a Republic", 1971 (c) D.U. Edebiri in "Whence the Igodomidos", 1970, and (d) A. Iyare in "Bini, Ife Dynasties", 1973.

As is to be expected in their amateurish works, they could not name a single source or informant for their totally strange account.

To make it all worse, during his coronation of 1978-9, the incoming Omo N'Oba N'Edo (Oba Erediauwa) announced this unsubstantiated fabrication for the first time to the Edo public. He also did that out of a mix inferiority as well as political/legal necessity against the Ogiamen lawsuit.

(2) However, this fabrication of attempting to equate Ekaladerhan as one and the same person as Oduduwa has been debunked and trashed (in academia) as a hoax, that is -- an interesting nonsense.

For example, D. M. Bondarenko who is the world's leading authority on precolonial Benin History today has the following to say on pages 67-68 of his "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty (2003)" in relation to this fabricated account:

"Finally, there are the apocryphal versions of Benin oral tradition [wherein] Ekaladerhan ... later ... left Gwato for Ife. ... and became her first ruler under the name of Oduduwa.

However, a student of ancient Benin might feel obliged to reject the apocryphal versions without hesitation as deliberately unauthentic.

There are no their records made before the early 1970s*, while among common people the story of Ekaladerhan that ends with the Prince's banishing from Benin and subsequent dethronement of his father, the last Ogiso Owodo, is known (and was recorded hundred years ago)*. There is no doubt that the apocryphal versions are not ancient and are not popular. Their authors are representatives of the nationalistically-minded part of the Bini intelligentsia who are seeking to ground the idea of an exceptional antiquity for their people and claims for its exclusive part in the sociopolitical life of independent Nigeria*. Behind such pseudohistorical studies by intellectuals, as if harmless, one can make out serious problems of the country, interests of political clans based on their members' ethnic community*. Not accidentally, the apocryphal versions were first published in a Benin City newspaper and then, as academic debates around the founder of the Oba dynasty took the shape of severe polemics (political by its nature) between the Bini and Yoruba historians in the central Nigerian press*.

(3) On the contrary to the above obvious 1970s fabrication on Ekaladerhan, Bini traditions has long been recorded by Europeaans to the effect that the Oba dynasty of Benin originated from Ife.

For example, H. Ling Roth (1903) quoted Captain Roupell’s Officials 1897 account gathered from Benin that the first king of Benin was a Yoruba man from Ife.

Another example is of Oba Eweka(II) who in the 1920s informed an European visitor, H.L. Ward-Price that his great-lord (Oghene) lives in Ife.

He added that he must pray to this "Oghene" every morning (at the illumination of the first sun rays at dawn), before he prays to the Alaafin, before he then prays for himself, and then for all Yoruba kings.

See: H.L. Ward-Price, Dark Subjects (London, 1939), p.238.

(4) A final example will be on the tradition of sending certain remains of deceased Benin Kings (their heads to be precise) back to Ife for burial at a designated site for the purpose.

(a) The Bini traditional Chief J. Uwadiae Egharevba (who is the first indigenous Edo to document Bini traditions from the 1930s) documented this custom too. He writes:

"The head of the royal corpse was subsequently exhumed and taken to the royal ancestral grave at Ile-Ife; but this was done in every third reign."

J.U. Egharevba, Benin Law and Custom, (CMS Niger Press, Port Harcourt, 1946), p.72.

(b) Dr. R.E. Bradbury (who devoted years to intensive anthropological field work on Benin and the Edo-speaking peoples, and who is the outstanding authority on the subject) is also said to have documented similar customs while among the Binis.

A.F.C. Ryder notes on footnote 10 of his "A Reconsideration of the Ife and Benin Relationship" as follows:

"In a personal communication, Dr R.E. Bradbury points out that 'the Edo speak of the messengers who carried the Oba's remains to Ife taking about three years over the journey."

(c) Frank Willett is also noted to have said that the last ocassion of the practice of sending the exhumed heads of Benin Kings to Ife was in the year 1888.

D.M. Bondarenko makes a note of this statement in his "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty" as follows:

"These sources point at the Benin Oba's succession from the Ooni of Ife expressed in ritual forms. Particularly, "as a recognition of this fact deceased rulers' heads were sent to Ife for burial at Orun-Oba-Ado site ... last time this happened in 1888. In its turn, a bronze depiction of the head was usually sent back from Ife to Benin" (Willett 1982:22)."

cc: LegendHero

Bump... From Page 17.

@TAO11, I appreciate your massive historical insights on this thread DEBUNKING distortions from revisionist and backed up your inputs here with massive FACTS and EVIDENCE from archival sources. Happy Holidays and have a great 2025 ahead.


1. "These sources point at the Benin Oba's succession from the Ooni of Ife expressed in ritual forms. Particularly, "as a recognition of this fact deceased rulers' heads were sent to Ife for burial at Orun-Oba-Ado site ... last time this happened in 1888. In its turn, a bronze depiction of the head was usually sent back from Ife to Benin" (Willett 1982:22)."


2. Ogiso and Ogiamien are Aborigine Binis while Oba Of Benin is YORUBA From Ife
=>https://guardian.ng/features/ogiso-and-ogiamien-are-aborigine-binis-while-oba-of-benin-is-of-yoruba-descent-high-chief-esotericist-monday-wehere/


3. Right BELOW is the coronation ceremony speech VIDEO of the 40th Oba, the current Oba Ewuare II of Benin on October 20, 2016, affirming that Oranmiyan His DIRECT Male Ancestor came from Ile Ife in Osun State and that Oranmiyan was the FIRST EVER Oba of Benin After the Ogiso Dynasty Ended over 800 years Ago:

Oba Ewuare II Told the Whole World That his Father is from Ile Ife and he is the Descendant of Oduduwa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-q_F2zch8M?si=e6yfz-uGrRaJbPZE


Prince Oranmiyan (the grand son of Oduduwa who came from his hilly place of Oke Ora just 8 miles away from Ufe or Ife) came through the Yoruba town of USEN in Ovia South West LGA of Edo State where his biological OLDER brother Prince Afelogiyan was the FIRST EVER ruler or Oba. This is why USEN folks greet one another with the morning family salutation: "DELAUHE" meaning "How is UFE or Ife or Uhe" and they do NOT deny their direct Ufe (Ife) ancestry unlike their paternal cousins and relatives in the Palace of the Oba of Benin since the time of Oba Ewuare II's father (Oba Erediauwa) have shamelessly done because of the past Ogiemien family revolt which has NOW been settled and the Ogiemien family have gone back to status quo.