₦airaland Forum

gwafaeziokwu:
Igbo Ukwu artifacts were centuries ahead of its counterparts around west Africa. And the technology employed is just wow.

Igbos are ancient people.

Hellraiser77:
It has never been a thing of Debate

IGBOs as a people are way way too old The language itself is an obvious testament

gwafaeziokwu:
Too much proverbial wisdom, in one language.

Hellraiser77:
Archeological excavations in Opi also revealed Ancient furnaces that indicate a thriving metal works society around Northern Igbo land as early as 5000 years ago

Notice the white arrow pointing to the slags, Slags are what remains when iron is extracted from its Ore (This things are super heavy)

IDENNAA:
Of course, a pair can have conversation for hours using only proverbs...old ABS Awka used to air the program on radio. Igbo is very ancient , especially the northern areas

gwafaeziokwu:
It could be said that iron smelting tethnology emanated from Enugu area before spreading to other parts of Igbo land. Below is a screen shot from research paper about the origin of blacksmith technology in Awka. Awka history acknowledge a man Nebechi Uzo from Eziagu as being the pioneer blacksmith in Awka.

Hellraiser77:
Correct!! All The facts seem to point to that direction

1- Awka(Oka) people are an ancient stock of Igbos that were obviously already on ground when most of their neighbours were moving in, Including NRI itself around 850AD

2-Awka(Oka) dialect of Igbo is like nothing you will find anywhere around it in Anambra, you will have to look north towards Enugu state to find similar dialects

TAO11:
Continuation 1:

They even what?

First of all, I know for sure you didn’t read all of the thirty-five-page article because you’ve made it clear more than once on many threads that you are dead-scared of reading.

But guess what, you didn’t even have to read all the pages in order to arrive -- from same article – at the conclusion now reached by historians’ that Obalufon-Ogbgbodirin was one and the same personage as Ogun.

All you need do was apply yourself to “TABLE II” of your attachment which I have dumbed down for you to the simplest level of understanding possible.

To avoid being repetitive, refer [url=]HERE[/url] again to my detailed comment on this. Refer specifically to my fourth (4th) and fifth (5th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.

Really!?

Let me adopt this same line of your 'argument' to see if it works in refuting your ‘argument’ here. Here you go:

I have argued on the Ife king-list before now. I even checked Wikipedia a few years back and Ogun was included on the list …. Lol

I guess it worked in debunking your ‘argument’, right? Nonsense and Obaseki!

You are one joke of a dullard who thinks he knows better than his teacher. I hope the Oba of Benin has final granted you permission to wear clothes.

First of all, notice that you’ve now had a shift of position from when you first started off some days ago.

HERE, you were found saying and I quote that: “Ogun nor fit kill benin person na we get am”; but now you obviously have dumped that position.

My job of schooling you seems to be yielding some fruit after all. But despite now abandoning your initial position, you still appear to be hard-gripped by insecurity and inferiority complex to the extent of adopting the idea of we’re going down together.

Having said that, I have demonstrated without a shadow of doubt that Ogun originated from the Yorubas. Refer [url=]HERE[/url] for a gentle reminder on the specific argument with which I established that.

Refer specifically to my fifteenth (15th) and seventeenth (17th) blocks of comments there for the relevant comments.

For the umpteenth time, the following are the decisive questions (and their respective answers) which you must genuinely ponder in order to arrive at a logical and definite conclusion regarding the indigenous origin of Ogun:

(1) Q: Is there any traditional Benin account about a Bini whose name is Ogun?

A: Yes, there is probably one such account to the effect that Ewuare I’s pre-coronation name was “Ogun”.

And Ewuare I is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1400s.


(2) Q: Is there any traditional Yoruba account about a Yoruba whose name is Ogun?

A: Yes there is certainly more than one such account about different Yoruba personages by the name “Ogun”. Refer specifically to my fifth (5th) block of comment found at [url=]THIS LINK[/url] for one of such accounts.

And the Ogun of this specific account is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1000s.


(3) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Edo language?

A: Absolutely no! I’m glad you’ve also conceded this more than once on this same thread.


(4) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Yoruba language?

A: Absolutely yes! The word “ogun” breaks down into its two syllables, viz. “ò” and “gún”. “Gún” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “even”, “level”, “balance”, “stabilize”, etc.

The preceding “ò” describes the subject who performs the “gún” action. An everyday example of this is seen in the Yoruba word “òkpùró” which literally means “one who lies” (i.e. “liar”) -- where “kpuro” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “lie”.

“Ògún”, as has just been demonstrated then, is purely a Yoruba word which literally means “the evener”, etc..

This is moreover is in perfect harmony with his primordial/liturgical attribute in Yoruba and Dahomean religions as the one who clears pathways, as well as the one who set the earth into a habitable mode prior to humans’ arrival.

In sum:
The deity Ogun is indigenous to the Yorubas and not the Binis for (at least) two valid reasons:

(1) Per Yoruba accounts and Benin accounts, the original bearer(s) of the name “Ogun” among the Yorubas flourished at least four (4) centuries prior to the emergence of a supposed bearer of the same name among the Binis.

(2) The word “ogun” is literally meaningless in the Edo language. Yet, not only is it literally meaningful in the Yoruba language, its meaning is also consistent with the primordial/liturgical attribute of the deity who bears the same name.

Per the bolded, I am glad you’ve lately began to sound less reckless. This shows that my effort at educating you is not wasted after all.

But to respond quickly to your remark on “ventures into yorubas”, it appears you refer here to your usual ignorant remark to the effect that Benin ruled certain Yoruba territories.

A quick refutation to this lies in the fact that all the accounts which discuss this are based on one-sided information emanating originally from the Binis.

The only exception where such accounts is unambiguously two-sided is among the Itsekiri-Yoruba subgroup who in the late-1400s accepted the Benin prince Iginuwa to be their king.

Among the reasons cited by historians for this smooth transition is that the Itsekiri stock and the royal party from Benin considered each other as belonging to the same ethno-lingustic group – the Yoruba group.

In relation to this, the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime noted that “The Benin court may have been bilingual for some time after the coming of the Ife prince (that is Oranmiyan) and … therefore the royal party from Benin may have spoken Yoruba as well as though.”*

* Obaro Ikime: “The Peoples and Kingdoms of the Delta Province,” in Ikime, ed.: Groundwork of Nigerian History, 89 – 108.

In actual fact, the eyewitness written testimony of the visiting French Father Columbin of Nantes states that the lingua-franca of Benin kingdom (in the 1600s when he visited) was the language of the Lukumi (i.e. Yoruba) people.

Moreover, the royal title in foreign kingdoms whose affairs are truly ruled by the Benin kingdom is always one of the following: “Ogie”, “Ogiame”, “Enogie”, “Onojie”, “Ovie”, “Orodje”, etc.

This was never the case with any of the Yoruba kingdoms often claimed by the Binis – with the exception again of the Ode-Itsekiri kingdom.

TAO11:
Continuation 1:

They even what?

First of all, I know for sure you didn’t read all of the thirty-five-page article because you’ve made it clear more than once on many threads that you are dead-scared of reading.

But guess what, you didn’t even have to read all the pages in order to arrive -- from same article – at the conclusion now reached by historians’ that Obalufon-Ogbgbodirin was one and the same personage as Ogun.

All you need do was apply yourself to “TABLE II” of your attachment which I have dumbed down for you to the simplest level of understanding possible.

To avoid being repetitive, refer [url=]HERE[/url] again to my detailed comment on this. Refer specifically to my fourth (4th) and fifth (5th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.

Really!?

Let me adopt this same line of your 'argument' to see if it works in refuting your ‘argument’ here. Here you go:

I have argued on the Ife king-list before now. I even checked Wikipedia a few years back and Ogun was included on the list …. Lol

I guess it worked in debunking your ‘argument’, right? Nonsense and Obaseki!

You are one joke of a dullard who thinks he knows better than his teacher. I hope the Oba of Benin has final granted you permission to wear clothes.

First of all, notice that you’ve now had a shift of position from when you first started off some days ago.

HERE, you were found saying and I quote that: “Ogun nor fit kill benin person na we get am”; but now you obviously have dumped that position.

My job of schooling you seems to be yielding some fruit after all. But despite now abandoning your initial position, you still appear to be hard-gripped by insecurity and inferiority complex to the extent of adopting the idea of we’re going down together.

Having said that, I have demonstrated without a shadow of doubt that Ogun originated from the Yorubas. Refer [url=]HERE[/url] for a gentle reminder on the specific argument with which I established that.

Refer specifically to my fifteenth (15th) and seventeenth (17th) blocks of comments there for the relevant comments.

For the umpteenth time, the following are the decisive questions (and their respective answers) which you must genuinely ponder in order to arrive at a logical and definite conclusion regarding the indigenous origin of Ogun:

(1) Q: Is there any traditional Benin account about a Bini whose name is Ogun?

A: Yes, there is probably one such account to the effect that Ewuare I’s pre-coronation name was “Ogun”.

And Ewuare I is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1400s.


(2) Q: Is there any traditional Yoruba account about a Yoruba whose name is Ogun?

A: Yes there is certainly more than one such account about different Yoruba personages by the name “Ogun”. Refer specifically to my fifth (5th) block of comment found at [url=]THIS LINK[/url] for one of such accounts.

And the Ogun of this specific account is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1000s.


(3) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Edo language?

A: Absolutely no! I’m glad you’ve also conceded this more than once on this same thread.


(4) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Yoruba language?

A: Absolutely yes! The word “ogun” breaks down into its two syllables, viz. “ò” and “gún”. “Gún” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “even”, “level”, “balance”, “stabilize”, etc.

The preceding “ò” describes the subject who performs the “gún” action. An everyday example of this is seen in the Yoruba word “òkpùró” which literally means “one who lies” (i.e. “liar”) -- where “kpuro” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “lie”.

“Ògún”, as has just been demonstrated then, is purely a Yoruba word which literally means “the evener”, etc..

This is moreover is in perfect harmony with his primordial/liturgical attribute in Yoruba and Dahomean religions as the one who clears pathways, as well as the one who set the earth into a habitable mode prior to humans’ arrival.

In sum:
The deity Ogun is indigenous to the Yorubas and not the Binis for (at least) two valid reasons:

(1) Per Yoruba accounts and Benin accounts, the original bearer(s) of the name “Ogun” among the Yorubas flourished at least four (4) centuries prior to the emergence of a supposed bearer of the same name among the Binis.

(2) The word “ogun” is literally meaningless in the Edo language. Yet, not only is it literally meaningful in the Yoruba language, its meaning is also consistent with the primordial/liturgical attribute of the deity who bears the same name.

Per the bolded, I am glad you’ve lately began to sound less reckless. This shows that my effort at educating you is not wasted after all.

But to respond quickly to your remark on “ventures into yorubas”, it appears you refer here to your usual ignorant remark to the effect that Benin ruled certain Yoruba territories.

A quick refutation to this lies in the fact that all the accounts which discuss this are based on one-sided information emanating originally from the Binis.

The only exception where such accounts is unambiguously two-sided is among the Itsekiri-Yoruba subgroup who in the late-1400s accepted the Benin prince Iginuwa to be their king.

Among the reasons cited by historians for this smooth transition is that the Itsekiri stock and the royal party from Benin considered each other as belonging to the same ethno-lingustic group – the Yoruba group.

In relation to this, the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime noted that “The Benin court may have been bilingual for some time after the coming of the Ife prince (that is Oranmiyan) and … therefore the royal party from Benin may have spoken Yoruba as well as though.”*

* Obaro Ikime: “The Peoples and Kingdoms of the Delta Province,” in Ikime, ed.: Groundwork of Nigerian History, 89 – 108.

In actual fact, the eyewitness written testimony of the visiting French Father Columbin of Nantes states that the lingua-franca of Benin kingdom (in the 1600s when he visited) was the language of the Lukumi (i.e. Yoruba) people.

Moreover, the royal title in foreign kingdoms whose affairs are truly ruled by the Benin kingdom is always one of the following: “Ogie”, “Ogiame”, “Enogie”, “Onojie”, “Ovie”, “Orodje”, etc.

This was never the case with any of the Yoruba kingdoms often claimed by the Binis – with the exception again of the Ode-Itsekiri kingdom.

gregyboy:
Hhhh

Hellraiser77:
Correct!! All The facts seem to point to that direction

1- Awka(Oka) people are an ancient stock of Igbos that were obviously already on ground when most of their neighbours were moving in, Including NRI itself around 850AD

2-Awka(Oka) dialect of Igbo is like nothing you will find anywhere around it in Anambra, you will have to look north towards Enugu state to find similar dialects

Hellraiser77:
The Lejja iron smelting site in present day Nsukka Enugu state is the oldest iron smelting site anywhere in Nigeria!!

This slags were arranged here around 4000yrs ago by an early group of Igbos that were expert iron workers

gwafaeziokwu:
It could be said that iron smelting tethnology emanated from Enugu area before spreading to other parts of Igbo land. Below is a screen shot from research paper about the origin of blacksmith technology in Awka. Awka history acknowledge a man Nebechi Uzo from Eziagu as being the pioneer blacksmith in Awka.

gwafaeziokwu:
The key to finding the missing links in our rich history is to trace our wave of migration from the known to unknown. As we do so, we must understand the extent of Nri/Aro influence as clans emerge.

For example, some towns around Aguata were into the practice of giving mgbirichi mark to new brides on the day of her "Izu Afia". Usually, it is Umudioka people that comes around to perform that ritual on the new brides.

Surprisingly, communities close to them in the present Imo state do not have Umudioka people coming to do their Mgbirichi during "Izu Afia".

I am still probing to understand why.

TAO11:
Continuation 1:

They even what?

First of all, I know for sure you didn’t read all of the thirty-five-page article because you’ve made it clear more than once on many threads that you are dead-scared of reading.

But guess what, you didn’t even have to read all the pages in order to arrive — from same article — at the conclusion now reached by historians’ that Obalufon-Ogbgbodirin was one and the same personage as Ogun.

All you need do was apply yourself to “TABLE II” of your attachment which I have dumbed down for you to the simplest level of understanding possible.

To avoid being repetitive, refer [url=]HERE[/url] again to my detailed comment on this. Refer specifically to my fourth (4th) and fifth (5th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.

Really!?

Let me adopt this same line of your 'argument' to see if it works in refuting your ‘argument’ here. Here you go:

I have argued on the Ife king-list before now. I even checked Wikipedia a few years back and Ogun was included on the list …. Lol

I guess it worked in debunking your ‘argument’, right? Nonsense and Obaseki!

You are one joke of a dullard who thinks he knows better than his teacher. I hope the Oba of Benin has now final granted you permission to wear clothes.

First of all, notice that you’ve now had a shift of position from when you first started off some days ago.

HERE you were found saying, and I quote, that: “Ogun nor fit kill benin person na we get am”; but now you obviously have dumped that position.

My job of schooling you seems to be yielding some fruit after all.

But despite now abandoning your initial position, you still appear to be hard-gripped by insecurity and inferiority to the extent of adopting the idea of we’re going down together.

Having said that, I have demonstrated without a shred of doubt that Ogun originated from the Yorubas. Refer [url=]HERE[/url] for a gentle reminder on that.

Refer specifically to my fifteenth (15th) and seventeenth (17th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.

For the umpteenth time, the following are the decisive questions (and their respective answers) which you must genuinely ponder in order to arrive at a logical and definite conclusion regarding the indigenous origin of Ogun:

(1) Q: Is there any traditional Benin account about a Bini whose name is Ogun?

A: Yes, there is probably one such account to the effect that Ewuare I’s pre-coronation name was “Ogun”.

And Ewuare I is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1400s.

(2) Q: Is there any traditional Yoruba account about a Yoruba whose name is Ogun?

A: Yes there is certainly more than one such account about different Yoruba personages by the name “Ogun”.

Refer specifically to my fifth (5th) block of comment found at [url=]THIS LINK[/url] for one of such accounts.

And the Ogun of this specific account is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1000s.

(3) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Edo language?

A: Absolutely no! I’m glad you’ve also conceded this more than once on this same thread.

(4) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Yoruba language?

A: Absolutely yes! The word “ogun” breaks down into its two syllables, viz. “ò” and “gún”.

“Gún” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “even”, “level”, “balance”, “stabilize”, etc.

The preceding “ò” describes the subject who performs the “gún” action.

An everyday example of this is seen in the Yoruba word “òkpùró” which literally means “one who lies” (i.e. “liar”) — where “kpuro” is the verb: “lie”.

“Ògún” then, as has just been demonstrated, is purely a Yoruba word which literally means “the one who evens”, “the one who stabilizes”, etc..

This meaning, moreover, is in perfect harmony with Ogun’s cosmogonical/liturgical attribute as the one who clears pathways, as well as the one who set the earth into a habitable mode prior to (and in preparation for) human habitation.

In sum:
The deity Ogun is indigenous to the Yorubas and not the Binis for (at least) two valid reasons:

(1) Per Yoruba accounts (in relation to Benin accounts) the original bearer(s) of the name “Ogun” among the Yorubas flourished at least four (4) centuries prior to the emergence of a supposed bearer of the same name among the Binis.

(2) The word “ogun” is literally meaningless in the Edo language.

However, not only is it literally meaningful in the Yoruba language, its meaning is also consistent with the cosmogonical/liturgical attribute of the deity who bears the name.

Per the bolded, I am glad you’ve lately began to sound less reckless. This shows that my effort at educating you is not wasted after all.

But to respond quickly to your remark on “ventures into yorubas”, it appears you refer here to your usual ignorant remark to the effect that Benin ruled certain Yoruba territories.

A quick refutation to this lies in the fact that all the accounts which discuss this are based on one-sided traditions emanating originally from the Binis.

The only exception where such accounts is unambiguously two-sided is among the Itsekiri-Yoruba subgroup who in the late-1400s accepted the Benin prince Iginuwa to be their king.

Among the reasons cited by historians for this smooth transition is that the Itsekiri stock and the royal party from Benin considered each other as belonging to the same ethno-lingustic group — the Yoruba group.

In relation to this, the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime noted that “The Benin court may have been bilingual for some time after the coming of the Ife prince (that is Oranmiyan) and … therefore the royal party from Benin may have spoken Yoruba as well as Edo.”*

* Obaro Ikime: “The Peoples and Kingdoms of the Delta Province,” in Ikime, ed.: Groundwork of Nigerian History, 89 – 108.

In actual fact, the eyewitness written testimony of the visiting French Father Columbin of Nantes states that the lingua-franca of Benin kingdom (in the 1600s when he visited) was the language of the Lukumi (i.e. Yoruba) people.

Moreover, the royal title in foreign kingdoms whose affairs are truly ruled by the Benin kingdom is always one of the following: “Ogie”, “Ogiame”, “Enogie”, “Onojie”, “Ovie”, “Orodje”, etc.

None of these royal titles was ever used in any of the Yoruba kingdoms often irrationally claimed by the Binis today, with the exception of course of the Ode-Itsekiri Yoruba kingdom.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980, macof

TAO11:
Continuation 1:

They even what?

First of all, I know for sure you didn’t read all of the thirty-five-page article because you’ve made it clear more than once on many threads that you are dead-scared of reading.

But guess what, you didn’t even have to read all the pages in order to arrive — from same article — at the conclusion now reached by historians’ that Obalufon-Ogbgbodirin was one and the same personage as Ogun.

All you need do was apply yourself to “TABLE II” of your attachment which I have dumbed down for you to the simplest level of understanding possible.

To avoid being repetitive, refer [url=]HERE[/url] again to my detailed comment on this. Refer specifically to my fourth (4th) and fifth (5th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.

Really!?

Let me adopt this same line of your 'argument' to see if it works in refuting your ‘argument’ here. Here you go:

I have argued on the Ife king-list before now. I even checked Wikipedia a few years back and Ogun was included on the list …. Lol

I guess it worked in debunking your ‘argument’, right? Nonsense and Obaseki!

You are one joke of a dullard who thinks he knows better than his teacher. I hope the Oba of Benin has now final granted you permission to wear clothes.

First of all, notice that you’ve now had a shift of position from when you first started off some days ago.

HERE you were found saying, and I quote, that: “Ogun nor fit kill benin person na we get am”; but now you obviously have dumped that position.

My job of schooling you seems to be yielding some fruit after all.

But despite now abandoning your initial position, you still appear to be hard-gripped by insecurity and inferiority to the extent of adopting the idea of we’re going down together.

Having said that, I have demonstrated without a shred of doubt that Ogun originated from the Yorubas. Refer [url=]HERE[/url] for a gentle reminder on that.

Refer specifically to my fifteenth (15th) and seventeenth (17th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.

For the umpteenth time, the following are the decisive questions (and their respective answers) which you must genuinely ponder in order to arrive at a logical and definite conclusion regarding the indigenous origin of Ogun:

(1) Q: Is there any traditional Benin account about a Bini whose name is Ogun?

A: Yes, there is probably one such account to the effect that Ewuare I’s pre-coronation name was “Ogun”.

And Ewuare I is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1400s.

(2) Q: Is there any traditional Yoruba account about a Yoruba whose name is Ogun?

A: Yes there is certainly more than one such account about different Yoruba personages by the name “Ogun”.

Refer specifically to my fifth (5th) block of comment found at [url=]THIS LINK[/url] for one of such accounts.

And the Ogun of this specific account is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1000s.

(3) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Edo language?

A: Absolutely no! I’m glad you’ve also conceded this more than once on this same thread.

(4) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Yoruba language?

A: Absolutely yes! The word “ogun” breaks down into its two syllables, viz. “ò” and “gún”.

“Gún” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “even”, “level”, “balance”, “stabilize”, etc.

The preceding “ò” describes the subject who performs the “gún” action.

An everyday example of this is seen in the Yoruba word “òkpùró” which literally means “one who lies” (i.e. “liar”) — where “kpuro” is the verb: “lie”.

“Ògún” then, as has just been demonstrated, is purely a Yoruba word which literally means “the one who evens”, “the one who stabilizes”, etc..

This meaning, moreover, is in perfect harmony with Ogun’s cosmogonical/liturgical attribute as the one who clears pathways, as well as the one who set the earth into a habitable mode prior to (and in preparation for) human habitation.

In sum:
The deity Ogun is indigenous to the Yorubas and not the Binis for (at least) two valid reasons:

(1) Per Yoruba accounts (in relation to Benin accounts) the original bearer(s) of the name “Ogun” among the Yorubas flourished at least four (4) centuries prior to the emergence of a supposed bearer of the same name among the Binis.

(2) The word “ogun” is literally meaningless in the Edo language.

However, not only is it literally meaningful in the Yoruba language, its meaning is also consistent with the cosmogonical/liturgical attribute of the deity who bears the name.

Per the bolded, I am glad you’ve lately began to sound less reckless. This shows that my effort at educating you is not wasted after all.

But to respond quickly to your remark on “ventures into yorubas”, it appears you refer here to your usual ignorant remark to the effect that Benin ruled certain Yoruba territories.

A quick refutation to this lies in the fact that all the accounts which discuss this are based on one-sided traditions emanating originally from the Binis.

The only exception where such accounts is unambiguously two-sided is among the Itsekiri-Yoruba subgroup who in the late-1400s accepted the Benin prince Iginuwa to be their king.

Among the reasons cited by historians for this smooth transition is that the Itsekiri stock and the royal party from Benin considered each other as belonging to the same ethno-lingustic group — the Yoruba group.

In relation to this, the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime noted that “The Benin court may have been bilingual for some time after the coming of the Ife prince (that is Oranmiyan) and … therefore the royal party from Benin may have spoken Yoruba as well as Edo.”*

* Obaro Ikime: “The Peoples and Kingdoms of the Delta Province,” in Ikime, ed.: Groundwork of Nigerian History, 89 – 108.

In actual fact, the eyewitness written testimony of the visiting French Father Columbin of Nantes states that the lingua-franca of Benin kingdom (in the 1600s when he visited) was the language of the Lukumi (i.e. Yoruba) people.

Moreover, the royal title in foreign kingdoms whose affairs are truly ruled by the Benin kingdom is always one of the following: “Ogie”, “Ogiame”, “Enogie”, “Onojie”, “Ovie”, “Orodje”, etc.

None of these royal titles was ever used in any of the Yoruba kingdoms often irrationally claimed by the Binis today, with the exception of course of the Ode-Itsekiri Yoruba kingdom.

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980, macof

gregyboy:
[s]ContinuationAll yorubas are coward, using benin history to uplift their dead history, we used yorubas as slaves in the past thats why people like Tao11 would rather commit suicde than to accept ogiso dynasty was a benin myth, there was never an oromiyan coming to benin that shit of a story started after 1914 when oba eweka11, made some diplomatic statements towards the onni and alafin for ethnic and political favour for edos, this statement forever altered our history[/s]

gregyboy:
[s]Benin-ife conspiracy
I have done my research, on benin-ife controversy which emerged in 1914 only three people knows this truth on nairaland ghostwon who first pointed it out to me, he is benin by tribe and had read quite enough on benin historical books before he finally came to understand it was made up, then followed by me who after ghostwon pointed it out so i decided to go on my personal research too,
And i found the truth, lastly TAO11 a Yoruba lady who was so pissed up about we benins bragging on ruling her state lagos in ancient times and decided to read benin documents to get proves to justify that ife had really giving a king to benin but to her own surprise she also found out the controversy was made up too..... angry funny but true
Before you come here and attack make sure you have done your research on benin-ife history atleast on both history on yorubas and benin both on full scale

Note: i will make a full detailed thread presenting the evidence when i gather enough for a standard research thread, and scholars on both history are free to attack my points, for it is not a matter of tribalism is a more of the truth

My findings


1).it is probably the itsekiri who called the benin the name ile binu unlike what the controversy made us believe i used probably, because it is a research work i carried out myself , from my findings the Portuguese had first come in contact with the itsekiri at the shores who told them their overlord were angry set of people and had called the edo people
Ile binu land of vexation which the Portuguese called bini

2) the first mention of benin to yoruba history was samuel johson an oyo man who was the first yoruba writter who had written the history of yoruba in 1897 he had wrote benin was a direct son of oduduwa oromiyan which he mentioned was the last born who happend to be a warrior and had fought all his life with people from other African country and northern Nigeria, and later he established oyo, he never mentioned oromiyan venturing to benin or conquering benin according to him every oduduwa son left to find his own kingdom
The question is why did Samuel johson include benin as Yoruba at early times, even when benin at those very times never had once identified its monarchy or the entire people as Yoruba samuel johnson as we know was present during the yoruba war which the British later put a stop to, he even made peace with the yoruba elite before the war began but the war started anyway, so he had wrote extensively on the war , he also wrote on benin influence in the war and how benin supplied guns to aid the various yorubas who fought themselves and also how benin military had to protect ekiti its vassal from oyo which benin came victorious, benin really didnt partake in the war apart fron selling weapons to the yorubas who foght themselves they only came in the war to aid ekiti her vassal which wss under the benin empire, so samuel johnson knew well about benins he also knew they weren't yorubas either, but included as oduduwa son either to promote is own book to the western countries who was fully aware about the then benin empire
, samuel johson book history of yorubas has been faulted too by various yorubas because he was too oyo centric in his writings and also wrote on mythicism,
The second person who linked benin to yoruba was oba eweka11, you wonder why he used is name sake for the conspiracy and excluded edo people as Yorubas but only linked the mornachy
Oba eweka 11 was a very diplomatic king who had ascended the throne at 1914, he tried to reconnect the empire after the fall while the other kings like onni of ife alafin of oyo were already on their throne making progress with the britsh, oba eweka got to ascend his father throne in the year 1914, he tried to connect the monarchy with yoruba people probably for ethnic benefits, he also made press statements to the British too on how the ooni was is father and even went to the ooni of palace and willingly partcipate in some Yoruba rituals, all this was done to attach the monarchy to yoruba, for ethnic gains due to the situation of benin at that very time he needed to do all that as a wise king, but those statements were for diplomacy and not historical facts, like what we were made to believe but over the years the controversy has been kept going for cultural and political benefits by our elite

3) ogiso was a myth told by the benins royal to make their stool Divine like they attributed it to a sky god who came to rule men but ogiso never really existed but rather what the benin really had was oba and ogiso tales were myth it was also told to make the benin look old

4) ekaladeran to ife was invented by oba Erediawa the original history of ekaladeran which was recorded by a British ethnographer at late 1800 noted ekaladeran was a banished prince who fought the benin army but it was never mentioned he went to ife or uhe but settled at ughoton, ogiemen he fought for the throne was ogiemen(king of sea) and not ogieamien intepreted as (its ogie we have in benin and not oba), as misinterpreted by scholars

5. Scholars has also noted the vast distinction of benin ife art and argued and also disagree on its origin from ife

6) the benin royalty dont wprship any deity in the palace the oba is a deity himself and bigger than the others if truly he was from ife, he must have allowed the worship of ifa, sango, ogun and the others in the palace

7) till 1914, there was no historical evidence from the benin people connecting it to ife written by Europeans or even the benin people, all inventions started after 1914

cool the kinglist taken by Europeans in late 1800 wasnt having oromiyan as a king or even tales of oduduwa in benin untill the early last century
You csn read up benin kinglist[/s]

TAO11:
You would be taken serious only when you name just one person (Edo or otherwise) on Nairaland who thinks you’re mentally fit.

In summary: The Benin Obas betrayed their Edo slave-subjects just because these Obas are desperate to lick the Ooni’s boots.

Hmmm Interesting one coming from a dullard and slave.

By the way: one of your Obas’ praise title is “Adimula” — a noble Yoruba phrase for a noble Yoruba ruler.

It means: “One who brings inevitable success to others if they align with him”.

Also: Oranmiyan didn’t manage to be installed as Oba even though that was the original plan of the majority of the Edo elders.

He only managed to set the stage for a strong monarchy (i.e. Oba) after putting a final end to Ogiso monarchy. The lack of cooperation from some of the Elders was sufficient to dispirit his original plan to reign officially as Oba.

He left and his son then became the first Oba of Benin years later. This is according to both Yoruba and Benin extant traditional accounts.

Why then did you expect to see his name on the earliest Benin king-list? More confusion crept into the Benin list only later in the course of time.

In conclusion, the following are some threads you created (using both your @gregyboy and @Edeyoung monikers) where I roasted you on the Ife-Benin connection.

I made you flee with your insecure propagandas from your own threads. Wonderful! Since there is no point duplicating effort on that, so here you go:

https://www.nairaland.com/5839972/post-evidence-benin-ife-connection-prior#89664642

https://www.nairaland.com/6026680/quick-fact-benin-ife-controversy-stared#92308698

https://www.nairaland.com/5857722/post-samuel-j-article-written/1#89740621

https://www.nairaland.com/5894619/benin-influence-yorubas/1

If you need answers to more of your problems, then dial my telephone number below But for now, bye-bye, my slave!

gregyboy:
Tao11 i want your head on my plate, so i can offer to my benin gods, they like the bloods of yorubas like the way they always love it in the past

My stance still remain strong ife was a religious centre to yoruba people, and not an ancestoral home those Refrence you gave me were made and fabricated by you, if they weren't made up, like you would say, why does my screenshot go against it, if it valid, samuel johnson was the pioneers behind this mixup and awolowo

Please summit links to those references you gave towards the ijebu and oyo, lets rechecked them to together

Something is fish.... Summit both refrences, direct links, and screenshot of those pages you took the Refrence from

gregyboy:
Lol, cunny lady..... Fellow yorubas should ask him if there was any mention of oromiyan or ife by those authors who wrote the benin kinglist those list were collected as far back as 1897 few months after the benin war, the other was collected 1901

Ife or oromiyan was never mentioned in the articles that follow the kinglist then so when did oromiyan story began in benin.... After 1914
In a bid of edos to get political and cultural favours

I went to facebook to quickly do a search on the word adimila as presented by TAO11 the fraustrated lady

On the search i saw no edo, or yoruba bearing that names only Mozambique, and on the ebs radio when the oba of benin praise names are called adimila is not there too

Tho the name could be the oba praise name but it has no relationship with yorubas at anyform.

TAO11:
Listen to your daddy oo in the YouTube video oo.

He already confessed that Binis don’t have indigenous deities except that these deities came from the Yorubas.

Listen to your daddies confession at the time stamp 1:26.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqso2h2gRDw

Your Oba (a Yoruba man) simply used your daddies to serve and please Yoruba deities as their food.

Remember the Oba of Benin consider you Edos (whom he rules over) as his slaves. I will soon bring you this account as recorded by the Europeans who visited Benin.


First of all, your screenshot appears to you to contradict those pre-1897 statements only because you’re an Edo illiterate who can’t possibly understand whatever is plainly written in front of him. The same reason why you attach screenshots that rubbish you.

Secondly, I already provided the references to the book where you will find the statements. I know now you will blame me for your poverty.

Or why are you afraid to make use of those references? And if you’re too dull to know how to use references, then get yourself an Edo slave to do that for you.

Anyways, here is a YouTube reading of the same book I cited. And luckily for your poor miserable self, the references I cited are all read out here.

Listen and enjoy how your Awolowo/Johnson straw will be crushed starting from time-stamp 4:41


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kstFqyF234

TAO11:
The kinglist is of Benin not of Ife. Why would a kinglist even feature the name of a palace among the kings on the list?

Oranmiyan did not rule Benin as Oba. His son was the first Oba — according to extant Yoruba account and according to extant Benin accounts.

Again, Oranmiyan did not rule Benin as Oba according to extant Yoruba accounts and extant Benin accounts.

Lol. Nobody on your Facebook list actually has the name actually — “Adimula”

Highlight anyone on your Facebook list who has the name: “AdimULa”.

I will send you $200 for fun if you can highlight any name on your screenshots which matches the name here. Good luck!

Moreover, “Adimula” is not a personal name, you dullard. It is a royal title just like “Ooni-riisa”.

You won’t find Facebook names such as “Adimula” (hardly possible), just as you won’t find Facebook names such as “Omo n’Oba n’Edo”, etc.

Everything really has to be broken down for a dullard.

If it has no relationship with Yoruba, then tell us its meaning in Edo language. Break it down for us.

TAO11:
As promised in case you missed it:

”The royal right of abuse seems to have survived to the last days, for Gallwey (p. 129) mentions that “the Benin people ... are treated as slaves by the king, the title of king's slave being considered an honour." ... We have seen above that for different reasons the king claimed male children, ... the mass of the people were practically slaves to the king, ....”

~ H. Ling Roth (1903), p.103.

It’s funny that your daddies even had an interesting title — “King’s Slave”.

What a slap from the Yoruba-Obas ruling over the Edos.

cc: gregyboy

gregyboy:
You present me gregboy a video.... Lol a video full of myth repeated by a suppose black yoruba descendants, he repeated myth upon myth

One of the myth is ife is the centre of the whole were all humans sprang from including the whitemen,

2, he presented a benin picture in a Yoruba history video

Note : don't get things mixed up the alafin requoted what he heard the ife people saying, that all humans sprang from them, he never said his own ancestors came from there too, he only said all humans which we know is a mythical tales

TAO11 what do you take me for a myth believer

Those oyo who made those quotes to Europeans and even Samuel's j, were simply repeating what the ife priest had told them, not necessarily because its true, they were just giving a report speech back to visitors who inquird about ife

If throughly they did believe in it, why ife why was ife attacked during the yoruba civil war and why did ife raise arms against his children

Tao11 walk away from myth desist from it completely

Samuel Johnson's is the father of ancient yorubas and awolowo is the present father of the yoruba people, they united alk yorubas into oduduwa genealogy

Samuel johson who witnessed the yoruba war, after he tried stopping it, with no avail he decided to write a book to unite all yorubas and according all of them to one ancestors

As it stood it was only oyo in the past that were aware of the ife claims on the origin of the whole world the others were unaware of this prove me wrong

Tao11 wake up from believing myths

gregyboy:
The origin of Ayelala.

I gues we benins, are now fully aware of the fraudulent history of oromiyan and ife attached to the benin history, my wish is to set our history in the correct path... So we can tell our children the correct history instead of giving them unending arguments, if we allow myths like that of the oromiyan tales that sprang up around early 1900 by the benins for political and cultural benefits from the yoruba people naturalized into our history am sorry but even our own children will one day regard all our history as myth all because it is not connecting to them, and we may also endup loosing them completely to the yorubas too
Lets devoid every benin history from any form of mythicism to safe guard of our true identity, we are benins the oba is a full fledged ancestory benin, forget the games that they are playing with yorubas and the tales of mystical oromiyan it is a political staged myth .... In my next post i will write more on it


The symbol of ayelala is a cross this cross can be found in benin, even before the arrival of the Portuguese among the benin people and even depicted on bronze it is not a Christian cross but an indigenous cross, ayelala is a benin idol just as olokun, and ogboni, they are not new, they are only new to the yoruba people

Watch how the yorubas will start to coin the yoruba etymology of the word olokun to defend their points, but history is clear enough the cross on the olokun symbol is that of benin


Pic 1 showing the benin bronze with an hanging cross on his neck

Pic 2, an ayelala shrine in benin

Note : after benin were ayelala is mostly worship the next is ondo and ekiti state were benin descendants can also be found unlike the other parts of yoruba


Aye means the name of the God, lala means loud

Putting this two together it gives aye-sounding message

Ayellala is used to curse who so ever has stolen, lied, and people that do evi, l no evil doer can step in the shrine of ayelala or even even a wtch..... They will freeze