When will naira come back to 30 naira per dollar?as in 1990? Can yara dua do that for us? As per the topic, he has tried,afterall it was not him who increase those prices and sold off our refinnaries.He just came in and need time to get use to been a president, thats why he has to work with people like Kingibe.

I love him because he is a listening president not those ECOMOG MEN in Power

A lot of people here never cease to amaze me. If we are made to buy petrol at an International rate, then our salaries, wages should also be done on an international basis. Most of you asking for more time for this government have lost touch with reality; the people of Nigeria have spoken and the strike is on.

Same style. I believe the intention of govt was to fix fuel price at 70.
But knowing Nigerians will make some noise about it, they fixed it at 75 so it can be "reduced" after so called negotiations. To me, its either 65 or even lower. Kudos for the VAT issue when the general standard of living improves, we can accomodate VAT increase;definately not now.

Right on target Otokx. While I don't dispute denex point (Infact his presentation throws more light and makes so much sense), but the fact is that if we want to start following international standards, then it should not be partial to favor the government alone, it should be complete! Salary ratio compared to developed countries that are paying the said N101/litre is way too low. Our standard of living is incomparable.

Until we are set to implement a full change, or at least a 50-50 Fg-Masses change, THE SUBSIDY HAS TO CONTINUE. N65/LITRE IT IS! STRIKE ON NLC!!!

we need to look at the issue of this fuel price increase in another perspective:

As at now Nigeria is enjoying oil boom in the international market as a result of increase in crude products,
but we are not saying anything about that. Can unow tell me if u were the person that bought let say crude at the rate of 70 dollars per barell considering how many liters u will find in each barrell, and now u want to sell it after it has beeing refined wont u make ur gain obviously u would cause u will definetly take into consideration the amount u spent in buying the crude and also the amount spent aswell in refining this same crude oil.

So now back to the nigerian perspectives. We have few major oil importers which includes agip, oando,conoil, texaco, total. these are the people that are responsible for the importation of at least 80% of the total consumption we make every day and the so called independent marketers are just to balance the remaining 20% so that there will be no shortfall and by looking at this if the crude price increases definitely the refined products price must surely increase as the major importers are also out there to mke their gains too. Let take note that ours is a market that has been regulated by the government and it is stipulated that the oil should be sold for N65 and at the end of the day you will come to realise as a marketer that it is of no gain if u even bring into the country the refined products so they hands off and here comes fuel scarcity while the meagre 20% from the independent marketers can in no way quantify the daily consumption.

So i beleive with this u will reason with the government on the increase. i do not support what obasanjo did though but he should have seated the concerned parties such as the PPRA,NLC,TUC so that they would be aware of the further development that would lead to the increament of fuel pump price so that is the more reason why yaradua should run a listening and dialougue enriched government.  

on the issue of Vat

i think there is no jurisdiction why the government must increase the vat cause it is not only the petroleum sector we have in nigeria that generates money for us there are other sectors. i think that been done is a devilish act.

SALES OF REFINERIES

the sale of refineries carried out by the obasanjo regime might be a good omen but the way the sale was carried out shows what we called the monopolistic enclave of the energy sector cause if obj want to be fair he could have called in both the banking and other sectors in the economy of the country to invest in this part not his croonies.

By this i think on the issue of fuel price increase the NLC should just do the government bidding atleast N5 is not too much to add considering the hardship the major marketers whould face in their business as well in a casue to meet up with our demands. since vat increament had been canceled increament in salaries approved and sale of refineries to be reviewed then i think the organised labour should just shelf the strike action.  And government should do something fast about our refineries so that all these wuruwuru will not happen again

thank you
atiku

What kinda irrelevant stats was denex spewing there?

I work with several oil marketers and the dynamics of the industry is farther than you get from a one-sided site.

Marketers buy fuel from different parts of the world at varying prizes but sell it in Nigeria for a fixed prize, and ontop of that are given a so-called subsidy. Some imported products are cheap, others are not and so do the quality vary. So if the price from a source is cheap and below the pump price in nig they make lots of profit in addition to "subsidy" and if the prize is lower than the pump prize they make a loss. No biz man wants to make a loss.
Denex said america produces 5million barrels daily, i never heard a bigger error!!! Check any edition of Offshore Engineering - they only produce refined oil and not crude as they dont exploit their Texan reserve. America produces refined oil but also allow imported pms if such importers can compete with local prizes. That's what deregulation is all about - get products anywhere as long as u can compete favourably, not in nig where prices are fixed. This is the only oil nation where this happens. Shame on us. Refinery is key here and it takes a year and a half to set up a refinery and obj spent 8 bloody years on the saddle and no working one. We have a need of 26 million litrs a day and our refineries have an installed capacity for only 13.5 mill. So if we have to increase capacity @ the 3 refineries we currently have, we need about 4 new refineries to superside demand drive prizes down.

What kinda irrelevant stats was denex spewing there?

I work with several oil marketers and the dynamics of the industry is farther than you get from a one-sided site.

Marketers buy fuel from different parts of the world at varying prizes but sell it in Nigeria for a fixed prize, and ontop of that are given a so-called subsidy. Some imported products are cheap, others are not and so do the quality vary. So if the price from a source is cheap and below the pump price in nig they make lots of profit in addition to "subsidy" and if the prize is lower than the pump prize they make a loss. No biz man wants to make a loss.
Denex said america produces 5million barrels daily, i never heard a bigger error!!! Check any edition of Offshore Engineering - they only produce refined oil and not crude as they dont exploit their Texan reserve. America produces refined oil but also allow imported pms if such importers can compete with local prizes. That's what deregulation is all about - get products anywhere as long as u can compete favourably, not in nig where prices are fixed. This is the only oil nation where this happens. Shame on us. Refinery is key here and it takes a year and a half to set up a refinery and obj spent 8 bloody years on the saddle and no working one. We have a need of 26 million litrs a day and our refineries have an installed capacity for only 13.5 mill. So if we have to increase capacity @ the 3 refineries we currently have, we need about 4 new refineries to superside demand drive prizes down.

What kinda irrelevant stats was denex spewing there?

I work with several oil marketers and the dynamics of the industry is farther than you get from a one-sided site.

Marketers buy fuel from different parts of the world at varying prizes but sell it in Nigeria for a fixed prize, and ontop of that are given a so-called subsidy. Some imported products are cheap, others are not and so do the quality vary. So if the price from a source is cheap and below the pump price in nig they make lots of profit in addition to "subsidy" and if the prize is lower than the pump prize they make a loss. No biz man wants to make a loss.
Denex said america produces 5million barrels daily, i never heard a bigger error!!! Check any edition of Offshore Engineering - they only produce refined oil and not crude as they dont exploit their Texan reserve. America produces refined oil but also allow imported pms if such importers can compete with local prizes. That's what deregulation is all about - get products anywhere as long as u can compete favourably, not in nig where prices are fixed. This is the only oil nation where this happens. Shame on us. Refinery is key here and it takes a year and a half to set up a refinery and obj spent 8 bloody years on the saddle and no working one. We have a need of 26 million litrs a day and our refineries have an installed capacity for only 13.5 mill. So if we have to increase capacity @ the 3 refineries we currently have, we need about 4 new refineries to superside demand drive prizes down.

What kinda irrelevant stats was denex spewing there?

I work with several oil marketers and the dynamics of the industry is farther than you get from a one-sided site.

Marketers buy fuel from different parts of the world at varying prizes but sell it in Nigeria for a fixed prize, and ontop of that are given a so-called subsidy. Some imported products are cheap, others are not and so do the quality vary. So if the price from a source is cheap and below the pump price in nig they make lots of profit in addition to "subsidy" and if the prize is lower than the pump prize they make a loss. No biz man wants to make a loss.
Denex said america produces 5million barrels daily, i never heard a bigger error!!! Check any edition of Offshore Engineering - they only produce refined oil and not crude as they dont exploit their Texan reserve. America produces refined oil but also allow imported pms if such importers can compete with local prizes. That's what deregulation is all about - get products anywhere as long as u can compete favourably, not in nig where prices are fixed. This is the only oil nation where this happens. Shame on us. Refinery is key here and it takes a year and a half to set up a refinery and obj spent 8 bloody years on the saddle and no working one. We have a need of 26 million litrs a day and our refineries have an installed capacity for only 13.5 mill. So if we have to increase capacity @ the 3 refineries we currently have, we need about 4 new refineries to superside demand drive prizes down.

God bless you, INITIATOR.

What kinda irrelevant stats was denex spewing there?

I work with several oil marketers and the dynamics of the industry is farther than you get from a one-sided site.

Marketers buy fuel from different parts of the world at varying prizes but sell it in Nigeria for a fixed prize, and ontop of that are given a so-called subsidy. Some imported products are cheap, others are not and so do the quality vary. So if the price from a source is cheap and below the pump price in nig they make lots of profit in addition to "subsidy" and if the prize is lower than the pump prize they make a loss. No biz man wants to make a loss.
Denex said america produces 5million barrels daily, i never heard a bigger error!!! Check any edition of Offshore Engineering - they only produce refined oil and not crude as they dont exploit their Texan reserve. America produces refined oil but also allow imported pms if such importers can compete with local prizes. That's what deregulation is all about - get products anywhere as long as u can compete favourably, not in nig where prices are fixed. This is the only oil nation where this happens. Shame on us. Refinery is key here and it takes a year and a half to set up a refinery and obj spent 8 bloody years on the saddle and no working one. We have a need of 26 million litrs a day and our refineries have an installed capacity for only 13.5 mill. So if we have to increase capacity @ the 3 refineries we currently have, we need about 4 new refineries to superside demand drive prizes down.

otox and echidime have echoed my thoughts on this already but i will like to add that only in nigeria does a president wake up and overnight increases price of anything. no notice. how fair is that on the people u are supposed to be leading (not bulldozing). even if fuel is to be increased to the skies dont we as nigerians have the right to be fore warned? I say enough of the insensitivity.
If really fuel is being subsidized to the magnitude that denex wants us to believe now, do we have to be within the corridors of power to get this information? would it not be proper for these facts (so to speak) to be outlined for the people to see? It is time we demanded a responsible govt oh! these people just take us for a ride.

@denex

whats ur problem?

he mistakenly posted more than once and so?

dont we all know how faulty GPRS services could be?

even at that if you are clamouring for realism in increasing fuel prices, why not clamour for increase in salaries/wages of employees to be effected to conform with Internatioanl rates so as to correlate with how much they would be paying for PMS?

@kitaun

I undertand that the network is poor, but that is not enough for that fellow to tell me that the US does not produce crude oil.

Unsteady network does not excuse somebody to come in here and disprove figures that thousands of economic experts in the WTO have certified.

I'm very sorry for not sounding very happy while addressing this issue, but it pains me to see how far people would go to miseducate the masses.

Imagine some days back, one analyst with the NLC was cooking up figures to show that the cost of finished fuel is N7. How is this possible when a barrel of crude oil itself is $70 as of today. For those of you who do not know, 1 barrel of oil is 159 litres of crude. So divide that and you will see that a litre of crude has moved up to N56. Yesterday it was about N50.

So if the price of ordinary crude oil per litre is N56 worldwide, how can an NLC worker turn this into refined Petrol and sell it for N7? Is he God? Does he think refining crude oil is some kind of wine-to-water Jesus thing?

See the truth is I'm tired. I'm tired of the Nigerian government that will not enlighten the people, I'm tired of the Nigerian people that will not enlighten themselves. I'm just tired.

Why can't the NLC move for wage increase constitutionally? Why is everybody so adamant to read, understand and use the constitution? Why have we not seen that with the constitution, we can do anything. With the constitution Atiku was staring OBJ in the face. With the constitution Obi kicked Uba out of the state house.

With the constitution workers can increase their wages to infinity. With the constitution fuel can be distributed free at fuel stations.

The Umaru sef, what is wrong with him? Is there no sense at all in his skull. Is he not a politician?

Why can he not negotiate with the citizens total removal of all VAT rates in exchange for totally removal of all fuel subsidies.

Prices of all goods, I mean all goods and services from GSM call, to exercisebooks to Mercedes Benz go down by 5%, then go on to remove all subsidy from fuel prices.

Value Added Tax has never worked in Nigeria except in causing inflation. Shebi there are other taxes that goverment collects: income tax, import tax, all sorts of tax.

In fact I no fit talk again. I'm just tired. Sick and tired of this whole system of ignorance. See the way they were showing Lagos on CNN yesterday like one Mubutu country.

I wont pit myself with denex's rants.

Am typing this on a phone so i cant follow ur links. Am relying on stacks of Offshore Magazine, the leading oil and gas  mag in the world which i subscribe to: www.offshore-engineer.com

america does produce crude but its infinitesimal to their consumption that's why they're known to be gas addicts. Moreover most of US oil is heavy and plagued with sulphor except texas light. It may benefit y'all to know that nigeria's bonny light and brent crude of north sea are about the best crude in the world and far cheaper to refine.
The price of gas in the US is not determined by any agency (abeg name) but by the competitive forces of imported fuel and locally produced ones thats why global prices affect the domestic mrkt.
And if u research more u'd find out that the US govt subsidises her farmers and ENERGY coys. If u watched the last dem. presidential debate edwards was quarelling with such subsidy. If the US is doing that, why cant nig that's enjoying a windfall do same untill refineries are fixed in 18 months?

Bottomline: nig has no biz fixing or raising prices when 50% of her populace are poor and she's the 8th largest oil producer in the world. Am an unrepentant capitalist but i sure know that system's got compassion.

this does not help the economy, its a short term solution that doesnt help, its a lazy strategy. why cant the market determine the price, infact nigeria sounds a bit communist, which of course never works.nlc is useless they have to think and compromise at times.

when nlc compromises now, it is still people dat will say dat they've collected bride and shut up, just as in d days of Amam oshomole

All these that the government is saying is capital rubbish.

If they really want to impress us (Nigerians), they should revert the pump price of petrol to 11 Naira and see the jubilations in the eyes of Nigeria.

If this is done, even fifth term in office will be greeted from the people.

I am not in support of the third term though.

they should also declare a state of emergency in the power sector to free us from the sufferings of PHCN.

that is what Nigerians need for now.

@milky

thank God there are still a few like you that understand what is really happening. When the white supremacist colonialists were leaving this country, they put us in a state of total subsidy. Education, Air Transportation, Power, Telecommunication, Water, Fuel, all subsidized. When they know that that system would never work. Why do they not practice that kind of rubbish in their own country? They want our country to spend all it makes on subsidizing life for the people so that we will continue in limbo forever.

See Russia that has spent all her money during her Socialist days. Where did it take Russia. Is it not now that they've embraced the open market that their economy is getting to where it should be? Then talk about China throughout the Communist era. Have the Chinese not always been hard working people? Why is it that since 1940 to 1990 they did not record any significant progress? Why is it that there is the sudden economic growth in China in the past 10 years? Has it nothing to do with their earnest pursuit of a free market?

Haba Nigerians, why do we always want to use short term benefits to truncate our future?

Look at the telecoms industry. When the GSM companies came, they asked the government to increase Nitel tariffs before they could be able to compete favourably. A local call that used to go for less than N2/minute on Nitel was increased to about N10. But we didn't complain because we didn't even know how our phone calls were billed back then. Am sure if we had known, we would have fought against it, the GSM companies wouldn't have been able to recoup investments and they would have packed up. Because what is the use of me making a call for N35 on GSM when on NITEL it was N2? Are we not benefitting from that price hike in cost of calls now?

Look at electricity, most of us don't know how to read our meters we don't even know that PHCN has increased cost of power from about N2/ kWH in 1999 to N4/kWH, now we are paying N6/kWH. Finally when the IPP become fully functional, they are planning to take it to about N12/kWH ($0.9) which is the international market price. But are Nigerians complaining? Is NLC striking because of the large increases in the cost of power? And why are they not? Because of total ignorance. At the end of the day, with the large profits that can be made in the power sector, a lot of companies will want to come to Nigeria and make that huge profit, and that is what will solve the power problem.

Well, if Nigerians want to keep stalling their own progress, let them continue. I know for certain that with the inherent ignorance in this society, if God himself should come down to rule Nigeria, he will regret.

NLC that is meant to be the nation's workforce, if they do not know Nigeria is selling petroleum products N25 below the cost price per litre, then they should all be sacked for incompetence. And if they are aware, then they should all be sacked for misleading the public, unjustified leave and economic sabotage.

Finally, I really do not know the people in government who are supposed to be in charge of these kinds of affairs. For one, Livi Ajuonuma should just shut up! Then the NTA and Ministry of Information, what are they doing? If it is to spend millions of dollars and airtime advertising Solar Eclipse, that is where you will see their efficiency. If it is to deploy facilities to cover PDP presidential campaign train, they will not be found wanting. Why have they not spent months educating people on the need for this removal of subsidy? I am not talking about those Zebrudaya adverts that do not send any logical message. I'm talking about documentaries on the process and cost of crude oil production, refining and marketing.

Then of course, there is the issue of change managers working in the parastatals. Do they really believe this is how change should be managed? Do they subscribe to this radical method of wake-up-in-the-morning type of effecting needed change?

I keep saying it, I am tired of Nigerians. I'm absolutely exhausted. I can't keep on living this type of day to day fear of what they're going to do next. After the strike, MEND and MASSOB will start, then maybe after that, one or two airplanes will crash, perhaps after that, the military will take over government, possibly one early morning the Third Mainland Bridge will collapse. That is how I live everyday. Expecting the next calamity. Nigeria is a good place, honestly, it is. But the people in it are hopeless. From the Government officials, to the workers, the masses, the military and even those in diaspora, 90% are just best done away with!

@estateng

the job of the government is not to cause jubilation and mass hysteria. It is to find practical ways of making this country among the top 20 economies before the year 2020.

@Denex

Please modify your post and delete "if God comes down, He will regret"

Government can take away all the subsidy but then the people must be empowered. The money they get now through tax, what do they with it? Many Federal roads are a death trap while their state counterparts are burial grounds. As for the local ones they can only lead you in one direction - out of this world. Until we have good governance our treasury will continue to be mismanaged.

if we were to be honest with ourselves, they have to be a measure of fiscal control by the goverment so 70 aint all that bad, whereas less than 6 states sell at the regulated price.
the major problem is corruption, if these indirect tax are being properly utilised nigerians wouldnt complain. prices at the international market are heading for about $100 per barrel. so there is no way the goverment can subsidise that, it would affect main priorites like power and infrastructure. The refineries have to be rejuvinated, private investors wouldnt sell at theses subsdised rates so maybe if the could be a managment concessioninig, some argue that another TAM would go the same way, as corruption is a way of life in 9ja.
local crude could be sold to these private refineries at cheaper rates for the nigerian public so as to make gains, but oil explopers like shell and chevron might kick under the faulty joint venture programme

the whole situation is just so crazy

This whole thing is a delibrate act of creating order out of disorder, and already we've all been hoodwinked and are applauding Govt for its sensitivity to the "PEOPLE'S cry.
Think about it, just after the previous Govt handed over the prices of petroleum products rose putting the nation into economic chaos and ofcourse the new Govt had no hand in this as we will generally believe. The Govt will issue a statement on how they inherited this and many other problems and maybe empty treasury too and will promise to do everything within Govt power to resolve the issue.
When this is done petrol and the other products will go back to the original price but the new price is of course where Govt wanted to be in the first place - and Govt will receive its first kudos.
What say you?

What is wrong with Denex? what are you saying? Tomorrow you too will want to be our president and promise us heaven and earth

@denex
ur argument in my humble opinion is faulty and i'll tell u why

People did not complain about nitel tarrifs being increased at the inception of GSM true, but have u asked urself how many people had nitel phones at that time and even today.

As for NEPA how can people know what the billing tarrif is when the electricity never comes anyway and people just cannot be bothered. Also i very much believe that like myself, a lot of people would not mind paying more just as long as they get the service. I for instance do not live in Nigeria but i have 2 generators in my house in lagos! whythen would i care what the billing is?

Only in Nigeria can one see Nigerian citizens velebrating foreign companies coming over to milk dry and take advantage of the populace. U claim GSM companies would have packed their bags and gone had the govt not hicked nitel price in order for them to make profits. Where else do u see such a big company operating under such short term return plans? Elsewhere in the world, these companies would have a long term plan to recoup their mony. but in nigeria they want to cash in and cart away zillion in profit like yesterday and u find it justifiable.

And how can inherent ignorance be turned around? do u think a hungry and deprived man cares about information? until the average nigerian enjoys relative comfort the ignorance, impatience aggression etc that we witness now will continue to be within us.

Lastly, is fuel subsidy the only problem facing the nigerian govt and her resources or is it the solution to all our problems? I will say it again; if this fuel subsidy is the only thing Nigerians can gain from their govt then its fair enough.

Although it is too early for any kind of assessment, President Yar'Adua has not shown signs of someone who will not take us to a better level in the near future. But the removal of Onovo is still a subject for deeper understanding,

The federal government should do well to revert to the N65 (old pump price). This is ideal with the realization that Labour Union are serious about there stance. If for any reason the pump price is to be increased, due delibrations should be cared out with labour unions and if reasons are found for such then they should go ahead, the increase was Obasanjo's unilateral decision and is grossly unconstitutional,

Labour should insist now or the price which govt. suggested will remain at N70 if they agree now.

People did not complain about nitel tarrifs being increased at the inception of GSM true, but have u asked yourself how many people had nitel phones at that time and even today.

Did those who had NITEL phones complain?The clear answer is "No"! In the long term,we have benefited.

As for NEPA how can people know what the billing tarrif is when the electricity never comes anyway and people just cannot be bothered. Also i very much believe that like myself, a lot of people would not mind paying more just as long as they get the service. I for instance do not live in Nigeria but i have 2 generators in my house in lagos! whythen would i care what the billing is?

We used to have fairly steady electricity in Awka,Anambra State and even then a lot of people would not pay their electricity bill.If people are struggling to pay the very low electricity bills even in places with fairly steady electricity,they are not going to pay it where it is hiked to reflect the true costs.

Only in Nigeria can one see Nigerian citizens velebrating foreign companies coming over to milk dry and take advantage of the populace. You claim GSM companies would have packed their bags and gone had the govt not hicked nitel price in order for them to make profits. Where else do u see such a big company operating under such short term return plans? Elsewhere in the world, these companies would have a long term plan to recoup their mony. but in nigeria they want to cash in and cart away zillion in profit like yesterday and u find it justifiable.

I don't know why people keep repeating this mantra,"foreign companies are coming to milk us dry",that's utter nonsense.We need foreign companies to facilitate economic growth.These GSM companies have brought in investment,employment,extra tax revenues and have helped improve the communication infrastructure.According to the CBN,the GSM sector has played a big part in the faster economic growth we have had

This is what we need in the petroleum sector.We can't have it if the Govt continues to set the fuel price at a level below costs.If you are satisfied with the status quo-constant fuel scarcity-no problem.If you think we need drastic change,then we need full deregulation and that means fuel price will go up rapidly

why dont u comment on their short term plans i.e expecting to and actually declaring billions of naira in profit in a matter of months

Again i ask how many had nitel phones? even if they had complained what percentage of the population was it?

In any case, my post was in response to someone else's so pls dont play it out of context. cheers!!

But honestly what is the very essence of 65, 70 or 75 Naira if the filling stations dont stick to them.
The same people launching strikes and campaign are likely to pay 150 Naira for the same product, are we just not looking for unsustainable short term solutions to our problems

In my honest opinion if Government can build refineries all arround Nigeria and ensure that we are able to refine all the oil we use, I will not mind N100 for s start knowing that with time owing to competition the price will reduce.

angel101:

why don't u comment on their short term plans i.e expecting to and actually declaring billions of naira in profit in a matter of months

Again i ask how many had nitel phones? even if they had complained what percentage of the population was it?

In any case, my post was in response to someone else's so please don't play it out of context. cheers!!

From a bussiness point of view, any bussiness man investing in Nigeria will put the volatility of the Nigerian market into question.
You can not expect any person to invest his money on a long term plan when the future of his bussiness is not guaranteed, in fact foreign investors believe the political future of the country is not even guaranteed. So people can only invest their money if they are sure of short term profit.
Bussiness is not a Charity organisation.