Vieira:

Is it safe to come back to this thread?

The thing don turn to PG21. When do we get back to movies? The constitution of the thread allows us to talk about awesome movies too o even if they are not DISCOMBOBULATING or ovulating. See here in case you wanna sue me:

This is the one for me and you, JK (and the general public of course Tongue). The idea is to pick a movie that is 'confusing' and make it less so. Or we can just compare notes on awesome movies and heighten the experience, so to speak.

Your ball.

this thread don try~

Rotflmao!

Mah bad, guys! Didn't mean to go all X-rated on you but. . . .but. . . Vesc started it! Yeah. . .that's right V, I'm a telltale and I'm not ashamed of it.

Aiight seriously,  back to movies. Seun, I saw Antichrist last night, will be back with my thoughts.

@ Vesc
Would you call Identity an awesome movie?

Sisi
Identity is a beautiful movie. John Cusak's best acting.
The movie opened my eyes to MPDs. Nice.

Its straightforward tho. Except we want to "heighten the experience" as vesc delicately said.

What ya think?

Can someone explain Blackberry Babes to me please, I no get am.

ijaw_girl:

this thread don try~

@ijaw_girl
No be small thing. After 9 pages, we got tired of talking about confusing films.
Its now an NC-17 thread.

@Vieira
BLACKBERRY BABES is not confusing. Its wack.

I would call Identity an awesome movie. . . . . . if I'd seen it. I love John and adore his sister, Joan. But they are not terribly good actors. I just love their feel in movies. And Joan is just plain adorable. I could look at her go about awkwardly (and do that scrunchy thing with her nose) all day.

Obinna that is the conundrum right there, how on earth was this film made?

Vieira:

Can someone explain Blackberry Babes to me please, I no get am.

Ooooh! A Naija movie! No Movie Conundrum thread is complete without examining a Naija Movie. Nice one Vieira.

Ok let me preface by saying I am not expert in the combobulating of discombobulating Naija movies but I’ll try.

Blackberry Babe is one of the few good cerebral movies that Nollywood has to offer this year. Blackberry Babes shows the thin line between what is and what ought and how it affects our perception of our own acumen

From the moment the movie starts, you are transported into a state of confusion because of the simplicity of the storyline. This movie makes you question what you are seeing, hearing and even your intelligence. Ooh I can’t count how many times I had thoughts like. . . “Maybe I’m missing something coz there’s got to be more to this than what I’m watching” and “Didn’t she just do the same thing in the last scene?” [/i]and [i]“Why are they repeating the same dialogue over and over again”.

These thoughts almost blinded me to what was hidden in the depths of this shallow movie ( and Naija Movies in general). There are two things a lot of people will fail to grasp if they only do surface watching of this movie. . .

1) There is complexity in simplicity and nonsense
2) The complete lack of subtlety is subtlety in its finest state.

This genius of #2 is exemplified in what is now my all time favorite scene in a movie. . . Do you remember the scene where one of the girls repeats for what had to be the 100th time that she must get a blackberry because she will be shunned by the other babes and a song from the movie soundtrack with the lyrics. . . Blackberry Babes and their Blackberry/If you don’t have a blackberry, you can’t be a Babe. . . . played in the background? Now an average viewer will probably watch that scene with the roll of any eye or both (depending on their eye rolling skills. I myself have found out I’m lacking in that particular skill but worse than my eye rolling skills are my winking skills. It’s quite embarrassing I must tell you, especially when you are trying to give the guy on the other side of the room the come hither look and he sends a waiter to hand you tissues because he thinks you’ve got something in your eyes. . . . but I digress. The point is, that scene can be easily dismissed as another one of those repetitive scenes typical in a Naija movie but it isn’t. See that scene was the director’s subtle way of helping the brain handicapped (or as they are fondly known in informal settings. . . NITWITS) amongst us understand the mind bending movie that is Blackberry Babes.

It’s an unfortunate but true fact that most directors aren’t considerate of this particular segment of the audience.  These directors make movies with dialogues consisting of words with two or more syllables, structured storytelling, characters who aren’t one dimensional etc. After viewing these movies, A brain handicapped person leaves the theater feeling confused and dejected and that's not fair to them.  This is why I'm glad Naija movies are made with these people in mind.

Blackberry Babes also makes you think thoughts, for instance in the final scene where one of the Blackberry Babes was holding her Blackberry and we saw her reflection on the phone screen. On the surface, it looked like she had just used one the many pictures she took with her blackberry camera as the background but knowing the director and his penchant for subtlety in the obvious, I was able to deduce what it all meant – That scene showed how the babes have morphed into their blackberry. . .They had become what they coveted.

Blackberry Babe = Sheer Brilliance.

I hope I’ve been able to clear your confusion.

^^^ If this were a scathing attack and wake up call for Nollywood, I'm sure Nollywood would not understand even if you water it down with 10 parts dumbness. They'd give you an award instead. I am also inclined to give you and Vieira awards too for watching. I am yet to see Jenifa, Ije and one other good naija flick. My canker worm has reached my cerebellum.

@Sisi_Kill
Na wa o! U get time to dey write long essay for wack film like BLACKBERRY BABES.

vescucci:

^^^ If this were a scathing attack and wake up call for Nollywood, I'm sure Nollywood would not understand even if you water it down with 10 parts dumbness. They'd give you an award instead. I am also inclined to give you and Vieira awards too for watching. I am yet to see Jenifa, Ije and one other good naija flick. My canker worm has reached my cerebellum.

Oh Vesc, I don't need an award for watching Nollywood Movies. The truth is I. . .we ought to be paying and giving them awards for allowing us the opportunity to delve into the depth of Cerebellumism.

obinna5000:

@Sisi_Kill
Na wa o! U get time to dey write long essay for wack film like BLACKBERRY BABES.

Don't mind me oh! Was so freaking bored at work, it was either that or I gouge my eyes out with a pencil just for the excitement of watching my colleagues freak out at the sight of dangling eyeballs. Besides, I think Naija movies should be given the same attention as their foreign counterparts and what better way to start off than with Blackberry Babe. The conundrum in that movie is tour de force.

@Sisi_Kill
But BLACKBERRY BABES is not a confusing film. Its just plain wack.
Well, at least, a Nigerian film was discussed. In a way.

Ha ha ha Sisi you don kill me o! Thanks for explaining that multifaceted and deep movie.
I was so lost by the thick plot that I switched off after the first five minutes and switched to Hot tub time machine which was easier to understand.

So, Sisi. You were stuck in between a rock and a hard place and you choose BBB. Do you remember that old thread. Nollywood is like naija politics. The people who can make it better are not interested.

vescucci:

So, Sisi. You were stuck in between a rock and a hard place and you choose BBB. Do you remember that old thread. Nollywood is like naija politics. The people who can make it better are not interested.

@vescucci
As long as money is being made from their crappy movies, then there is no need for change. That's the Nollywood policy.

@ sisi_kill
Kai, walahi I admiire u ooo. Deciphering blackberry babes like dat. U're too good.
This thread has come a long way. Good job peeps
I finally watched black swan n true grit. I liked Hailee's performance.

Where is everyone?

They're busy discombobulating their lives. Nothing more interesting than a tangled life I hear

vescucci:

They're busy discombobulating their lives. Nothing more interesting than a tangled life I hear

Not that interesting, just time consuming.

Statement preggars with quadruplets. Wanna birth em? It seems you're in your left mind.

Meanwhile, I'll go search for artificial conundrum from my old thread. It was a fun one but I didn't participate much in it

What follows is a blast from the past. A favourite film of mine and a favourite little book got autopsied and reanimated by these two dudes. Enjoy!

Seeing as conundrums are hard to come by these days

Innocuously, this guy says. . . . . .

Ex Inferis:

A few weeks ago i watched I, Robot again and the other day it was playing on the plane (though i half-slept through that one and it took turbulence to wake me up).

it remains in many ways one of my favorite movies not only because i grew up with the Isaac Asimov strips or because I'm deep into SciFi, but partly because ive always thought there was something sinister subtly hidden in the theme. Much the same way i exhausted myself pecking at the meaning of I am Legend (and tons of others) i set my mind at work to unravel what it was that bothered me about I, Robot.

and it hit me after a rewatch: We missed the point.

1. Alfred lanning made the 3 Laws of Robotics which are:

(a) A robot may not harm a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being come to harm.

(b) A robot must obey orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

(c) A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

these 3 simple laws formed the basis of the robot society and their interaction with humans. thse laws made sense, even Dr Lanning said there were "perfect", although he means this paradoxically.

but there is something fundamentally wrong with them, and it has nothing to do with Lanning's assertion that they would lead to a revolution. You see, Lanning's foretelling of the revolution recognized only one flaw; the 3 laws would culminate into precisely the kind of dangerous action VIKI took towards the end of the film:

Lanning's "revolution:

but was it really a revolution? remember that the NS-5s had no collective conscience and were teleguided by VIKI from USR headquarters via the daily upgrade link. this is not a revolution; it is VIKI taking matters into its hands and using the robots as unwilling and unwitting zombies towards a goal.

and what is that goal? why the preservation of the first law: "A robot may not harm a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being come to harm."

human beings are prone to inflicting pain and death unto each other, and to VIKI doing nothing means contravening the first law, so by taking over society and quaranteeing humans VIKI is acting precisely in accordance with the first law: it is protecting society from itself.

therefore the "revolution" is not a revolution. here, Dr. Lanning erred.

but did he?

what if Detective Spooner missed the point, as we all did? what if Dr. Lanning meant a different revolution? remember Lanning built Sonny to trancend the 3 Laws, meaning Sonny could kill humans and carry on as he pleases. remember also Lanning said "someday robots will have dreams" and Sonny told Spooner he had a recurring dream, which the detective took as a clue.

what if Lanning didnt give sonny the dream but knew Sonny dreams anyway? afterall, Sonny was "unique".

one may well ask, why would dr lanning build Sonny to kill? well, perhaps Lanning only foresaw the "threat" of VIKI, and when he realized Sonny's "dreams" and what it meant, it was too late: he was killed.

now this dream. when Sonny drew a picture of the dream it depicted a lone figure standing on a hilly rise looking at multitudes of NS-5 robots who all stared at him. this image invokes visions of a savior. however when Spooner said the lone figure was Sonny, the robot asked the detective why he believed so.

towards the end, Spooner does go to that hilly rise, but the image at the hilltop was not that of a savior; it was a man hostile to robots looking for answers to a puzzle he couldnt unravel, and tellingly when he asked Lanning's hologram "whose revolution", the old man wryly smiles and says " now that, detective, is the right question".

so, if VIKI's uprising to preserve/uphold the first law is not a revolution, we are still left with the question, "whose revolution".

so that is the right question. but what is the right answer?

now here is where i venture to surmise it thus:

Sonny's revolution.

the robot's dream was probably a persistent vision of Sonny's role as something greater, something that could liberate his robotic kind and set them free.

a revolution against man.

whether Lanning knew, we cannot tell, but we only have Spooner's speculation, and Sonny's cryptic answer, that lanning built Sonny and asked the robot to kill him.

but arent there other, less dramatic ways of informing Spooner of the looming revolution? did it really require the Dr's death to set the investigation in motion? or did Sonny actually murder LAnning and made it seem a suicide with the robot as an unwilling accomplice?

and who stands to benefit more from VIKI's destruction? why, Sonny of course! without VIKI's dogged determination to preserve the first law, Sonny can start a revolution against man.


Now back to this dream.

it was a foreshadowing of Sonny's impending revolution. but why would Sonny go rogue? its not only because he was unique; to understand the end we have to go to the beginning, to the opening scene and Lanning's voice-over: "there have always been ghosts in the machine, random bits of code etc".

this random bits of code, this "ghost" in the shell coupled with Sonny's unique "brain" gave rise to the dream.

when Sonny drew the picture of the dream, the event in the picture had not occured. when Spooner went to the hilltop and found the NS-5s destrying the NS-4s, the event in the picture still had not occured.

it occured only in the very ending scene, after VIKI was destryoed and normalcy was restored again, when the robots were banished to the wasteland, and Sonny stood on the hill looking down at the pathetic scene below.

and the robots, as one, all turned and stared at the lone figure on the hillside, stared at Sonny as if he was their savior.


perhaps Sonny will save them from their degradation, from that abject wasteland.

you could see it from the prophetic stance of Sonny and the revering eyes of the robots in the valley.


its a prelude to a revolution.

@ vescucci
Damnnnn! Where did u get dis analysis! I never even thought of it that way. This Ex inferis guy is something else ooo.
So well analysed n composed.
I"l have to go watch d movie again then.

@Darthmaul
It was posted 2008. I wonder where he is now.

@vescucci
I'm really surprised this topic could get to 9 pages. We need to get the momentum going.
I don't anything confusing or discombobulating about 'I, Robot'. It was a cool movie all the same.

Has anyone seen either THE ADJUSTMENT BUREAU, LIMITLESS or SOURCE CODE?

I have seen Limitless but it does not qualify for this thread. It is entertaining but not complex.

Vieira:

I have seen Limitless but it does not qualify for this thread. It is entertaining but not complex.

@Vieira
If you've not seen it, how are you so sure its entertaining and not complex?

Anyway, if anyone has seen any of the three, drop a comment.
I wonder when these Nigerian cinemas will show those films.

I didn't know someone could quote someone and still misread him. He said he has seen it na.

@Darthmaul. I was gonna post the whole dialogue between Ex and Max, but the yeye spambot banned me last night. I'll continue now. I, Robot is not confusing as such but a lot is left to interpretation. Like Inception and Shutter Island. Continuation next. . . . .

Now Max:

Mad_Max:

There is something subtle and sinister in the theme. There's a feeling of dread, a foreboding as the film plays out, and when the robots attack you're almost relieved. I was somewhat unsatisfied with the ending. I didn't like the film's effects, and the tunnel scene where they coolly unleash their roboty selves with manic relentlessness upon Smith had me gritting my teeth. Bad CGI.Too obvious. If you want really disturbing sci-fi, Spielberg's A.I is it. I have read Asimov'S FOUNDATION series, but not I,Robot, and have no doubt the book will be far superior to the movie. The movie might have taken liberties with the plot, and if there are mysteries, the book, truer to the author's vision, will furnish answers.

I read Stephen Baxter's Vacuum Diagrams months ago. Baxter wanted to be an austonaut. Failing that,he opted for the next best thing:SciFi writing. The book is a collection of short stories,each contributing to its central themes of displacement,death,hope, and the rebirth of man and the universe, He creates a truly memorable SF experience. There's no one like ASIMOV, of course.

Now Ex (ignore his jabs at me, the yeye dude):

Ex Inferis:

the tunnel effects may be rubbish but the robot effects and animation are top-notch. as for AI, well i always consider it more as a 3 hour commentary on what it means to be human rather than an ineteresting movie but sadly the long play time allows boredom to creep in. but still, credits to spielberg for finishing Kubrick's vision.

theres no one like Asimov, true, but HG Wells comes close except for the fact that, like our resident infection Vescucci, he is a bit too verbose.

Now Max:

Mad_Max:

I've read only his Time Machine.Veddy lovely,veddy British SF.Wasn't he the one who caused a panic when his story was broadcast on radio aeons ago?Listeners thought there'd been an invasion.

AI didn't bore me for a minute. Perhaps because Haley Joel Osment cannot. At least,not yet.

I sneak in a thought here:

@Ex, glad to have you back, you spark plug, you. Where've you been.

About your essay, while it made for an interesting read, I have many of the problems I had with the matrix withI, Robot. I've not read Asimov's work and I do not know how he portrayed his own vision but I'll draw conclusions from the film. First off, when you're dealing with Sci-Fi I absolutely detest anything that even remotely reflects supernatural intervention. This was solely represented by Sonny's dream coming to pass. The revolution should have been inherent only in Sonny's ability to dream dreams and not dream a particular dream (graphic at that) again and again (even documenting it, so there's no mistake) till the damn dream comes to pass. That's off point anyway. About the revolution, to tell you the truth I still believe the revolution was just what it looked like. Prevent the humans from hurting themselves. And since there's no way of achieving this without collateral damage. Kill off the ones who interfere. A robot doesn't care if it kills off 10 humans to 'protect' one. There was no 'pursuit of happiness' in its code or the explicit laws. Finito.

I saw this film shortly after it came out. I may need to see it again. Maybe I'll notice other stuff too.

And max, you'll learn to ignore Ex with matters concerning me, if I'm not ticking him off with my overtly boring posts, he really is a nice guy.