Does anybody know who He is? I was reading a certain Chapter of the Holy Bible, that details the encounter of Samson's parents with the Angel of the Lord, prior to his birth. The story of their conversation with the Angel of the Lord was very interesting, particularly, when his parents inquired of His identity. When the Angel of the Lord instructed them to make a sacrifice to the Lord, they complied, and immediately, as the Holy Bible says, The Angel of the Lord immediately ascended in the flame of fire to Heaven.

Since reading this verse, I have a strong conviction that the Angel of the Lord may have been the Pre-incarnate Jesus Christ. Moreso, it has strengthened my faith in God. As some of you may realize, Biblical scholars always draw passages from the Old Testament that foretells the Birth of the Messiah to redeem us from the bondage of sin. While the Jews (except for the Messianic Jews) have disputed the Messiaship of Jesus Christ, there is no denying that He, Jesus Christ is actually the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Read that Chapter that details the encounter of Samson's parents with the Angel of the Lord, as well as His Ascension during the sacrifice. It is a moving chapter.

@Ndipe,

Thanks for opening this thread on this much awaited topic; and doing so with a very good introduction!

I've been itching to open a similar thread; but you've captured my thoughts quite well. Sometime in future, I'd be making inputs from other passages to buttress my persuasion that the Angel of the LORD is none other than the pre-incarnate Jesus.

Regards.

Well good to find such question on this thread. First,i would like to bring more light into these. . .When sampsons parent asked for the angels name,watch closely his reply he said "why thou asketh after my name knowing its secret" & these same thing transpered btw Jacob and an angel on his way back home,after leaving home for fear of his brother. . . The bible said "and he(jacob)had an encounter with the angel of the lord . . . . .and asketh what is thy name but the angel replied him not but rather the angel changed his name to Isreal and blessed him"

If you note,in the old testament there was nothing like Jesus,all we had there is the WORD. . The same bible declares that there are three that bear record in heaven; The Father, the Word and the Spirit, And there are three that bear record on earth: The water, Blood and spirit. . .

To my conclusion,the angel of the Lord is the spirit of God in tha old testament and he's the same spirit of God that has come to dwell in the life of a believer!

@desodgi,

@desodgi:

To my conclusion,the angel of the Lord is the spirit of God in tha old testament and he's the same spirit of God that has come to dwell in the life of a believer![/b]

There are a few questions that I'd like to offer:

(a) If Jesus was not in the OT, does that mean that JESUS and the WORD are two different Persons?

(b) did you read anywhere in the OT where 'the Angel of the LORD' came to dwell in a believer?

(c) Have you tried to check every reference to the Angel of the LORD as pointing to the Holy Spirit?

The Angel of the LORD in the OT was the pre-incarnate Christ.

bari_kade:

@desodgi,

There are a few questions that I'd like to offer:

(a) If Jesus was not in the OT, does that mean that JESUS and the WORD are two different Persons?

(b) did you read anywhere in the OT where 'the Angel of the LORD' came to dwell in a believer?

(c) Have you tried to check every reference to the Angel of the LORD as pointing to the Holy Spirit?

(i)first the Word and Jesus aint two differesnt person,the Word came in FLESH[b](He became flesh and dwelt among us,and we beheld his glory)[/b] in tha new testament. . .

(ii)Thats tha difference btw tha old and tha new testament. In tha old testament the holy spirit didnt dwell in dem,he dwelt among them. . .People of tha old testament couldnt decern spiritual things cos the Christ hasnt bin manifested. . .it was christ who brought us the way of God,he said "As He(God) sent me,so i send you into the world"

(iii) well,in the beginning when God created Heaven and earth. . .we read to know that God,the voice and the spirit of God where the only one present. . .
In tha new testament no Angel appeared to Jesus to pass any information,he has all the wisdon he needed thru the spirit. . .He was the word made man,with the spirit. . .Did you hear of any angel during the time of JesusChrist?

@desodgi,

Let me weigh in a little on this discussion.

@desodgi:

(ii)Thats tha difference between tha old and tha new testament. In tha old testament the holy spirit didnt dwell in them,he dwelt among them. . .

"And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?" (Gen. 41:38)

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him" (Num. 27:18)

@desodgi:

People of tha old testament couldnt decern spiritual things because the Christ hasnt bin manifested. . .

"The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue" (2 Sam. 23:2)

"And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office" (Exo. 28:3)

"And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship" (Exo. 31:3)

@desodgi:

(iii) well,in the beginning when God created Heaven and earth. . .we read to know that God,the voice and the spirit of God where the only one present. . .

If the Son was not present, you would have no Trinity.

@desodgi:

In tha new testament no Angel appeared to Jesus to pass any information,he has all the wisdon he needed through the spirit. . .He was the word made man,with the spirit. . .Did you hear of any angel during the time of JesusChrist?

During the time of Jesus, there were angels. In Matt. 4:11 after the temptation that Jesus overcame, we read that: " Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him."

In Matt. 26:53 Jesus made clear that He would have called for angels if He actually wanted them to prevent the crucifixion: "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?"


It seems you have somewhat confused the Son of God for the Spirit. It was not the Holy Spirit who was incarnated in the virgin Mary; it was rather the Son of God (Luke 1:35). The points made in yours so far do not strengthen the idea that the Angel of the LORD in the OT was the Holy Spirit. At best, that idea has been propounded by men who wish it so; but what they teach does not mean at all the same thing that the Word teaches.

WOW Am so glad u replied to my post,uve actually added to my wisdon and am happy to say thank you. . .

But i kinda dont understand what you meant when u said that>>>>>>>>If the Son was not present, you would have no Trinity.<<<<<<<<<<<<<cos i never said there was no son present at the beginning,but said he wasn't the son then,he was the voice(word) of God.

But anywayz thanks for sheding more light

@adesodgi,

Now I can understand better where you were coming from. However, I'm convinced that Jesus always existed both as the Word and Son of God - even in the OT.

Remember Prov. 30:4? "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" The one thing to note is that people in the OT could not relate directly with the Son because He had not been revealed or manifested for our redemption as we read in the NT.

Again, the Psalmists says: "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." (Psalm 2:12). This is a prophetic Psalm, and no doubt the subject in whom people were to put their trust was the Son.

What did I mean by my statement earlier that

If the Son was not present, you would have no Trinity.

?

Well, the fact is that the Trinity had always existed - Father, Son, Holy Spirit. If the Son did not exist all through time, there would be no Trinity. He has always been the Son and the Word.

What is an angel and which Lord doe you mean?

pilgrim.1:

@adesodgi,

Now I can understand better where you were coming from. However, I'm convinced that Jesus always existed both as the Word and Son of God - even in the OT.

Remember Prov. 30:4? "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" The one thing to note is that people in the OT could not relate directly with the Son because He had not been revealed or manifested for our redemption as we read in the NT.

Again, the Psalmists says: "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." (Psalm 2:12). This is a prophetic Psalm, and no doubt the subject in whom people were to put their trust was the Son.

What did I mean by my statement earlier that ?

Well, the fact is that the Trinity had always existed - Father, Son, Holy Spirit. If the Son did not exist all through time, there would be no Trinity. He has always been the Son and the Word.

Am still on the fact that there was no Jesus in the old testament. . .
1st . The psalmist would only talk about tyhe son thru revelation,they speak according to revelation that hasnt bin manifested.

2nd .1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

3rd. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

In the new testament,he became flesh. . .He was named jesus when he became flesh,when he was with God there was nothing like jesus.

Again 1 John 5:7 (King James Version)says : For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

verse 8 says: And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


He had to be a man to operate in the world and has to be named JESUS.

Hi @desodgi,

Let's try and understand something. That you don't find Him named in the OT as Jesus doesn't mean that He didn't exist before being born in the NT as man. When He became Man, the angel announced that He would be named "Jesus" (Luke 1:31).

Again, I believe that when the Psalmist mentioned the Son, that revelation already indicates that the Son Himself already existed, otherwise the Psalmist would not have made any reference to Him as such (Psa. 2:12).

The question seems to be on one issue: that He had to be born as Man before He could "operate in the world".

Well, I'd say this: Jesus was already manifested in the world long before He was born. He was the very one called "the Angel of the LORD"; and in several instances, He had manifested Himself in the world long before the NT.

The difference is that the Incarnation was pivotal in as much as the promise of the Gospel would reach the ends of the world. The Incarnation did not mean that the Son of God was not seen in the OT already active; and let me offer just one verse that might be helpful in this regard:

Micah 5:2 -- "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

Please notice the highlighted words - His "goings forth" have been from of old: which is to say that it was not until the NT that the Son of God was seen active in the world.

your post was:
Let's try and understand something. That you don't find Him named in the OT as Jesus doesn't mean that He didn't exist before being born in the NT as man. When He became Man, the angel announced that He would be named "Jesus" (Luke 1:31).

He existed but was not man,he existed as the word of God. The word in flesh is named Jesus,do you get it?


Your second post was:
Again, I believe that when the Psalmist mentioned the Son, that revelation already indicates that the Son Himself already existed, otherwise the Psalmist would not have made any reference to Him as such (Psa. 2:12).

The son didnt exist in the Old testament.If the psalmist didnt make mention of him as the son in the old testament,would you believe there would later be a son?
He had to make mention of him so that we will believe when the revelation comes into manifestation. . .that was why john said "he became man and we beheld his glory"
cos he(son) was talked about in the old testament doesnt mean he was already born,the psalmist talked about things to come.understand?


Your 3rd post was :
Well, I'd say this: Jesus was already manifested in the world long before He was born. He was the very one called "the Angel of the LORD"; and in several instances, He had manifested Himself in the world long before the NT.


How can Jesus be the angel of the lord in the old testament,the angel only came to say what God asked him to say and what he heard was the word of God.
If Jesus was the angel of God in the old testament,so who is the angel of god in the new testament when the bible said In Matt. 4:11 " Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him."


and let me make u understand this better when u said in Micah 5:2 -- "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting

when he said whose goings forth have been from of old,from everlasting. . .it simply means the word of God. Jesus is the word of God made flesh,he is the word that wore flesh for our sake. . .dont you get it?
In the old testament he wasnt Jesus but the word that came forth out from God himself unto them (unbelievers)that are in the old testament through them (believers)that preach in the old testament. . . .get it now?

@desogdi,

@desodgi:

He existed but was not man,he existed as the word of God. The word in flesh is named Jesus,do you get it?

I already got that; but we're getting somewhere.

@desodgi:

The son didnt exist in the Old testament.If the psalmist didnt make mention of him as the son in the old testament,would you believe there would later be a son?

Ahh, there is the problem as I suspected. For one thing, I would have believed that the Son existed all through the OT, even if the Psalmist didn't mention it.

@desodgi:

He had to make mention of him so that we will believe when the revelation comes into manifestation. . .that was why john said "he became man and we beheld his glory"
because he(son) was talked about in the old testament doesnt mean he was already born,the psalmist talked about things to come.understand?

Let me ask you: Why didn't the Son exist in the OT? Was He "SON" only because He was born in the flesh (or, because He became Man)??

@desodgi:

How can Jesus be the angel of the lord in the old testament,the angel only came to say what God asked him to say and what he heard was the word of God.

Well, there were several angels in the OT; but the One who was manifested specifically as "the Angel of the LORD" is the Lord Himself - Jesus. If you read the verses where He is mentioned in the OT, you'll find Him there indicating His deity:

Gen. 16:10 -- "And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude."

It was the Angel of the LORD who promised to multiply her seed - an indication there of His divine power.

Perhaps the "angel" you referred to in the NT is angel Gabriel - a different one from the one we're discussing in the OT. Of course, Gabriel was mentioned in the OT as well (Dan. 8:16 & 9:21); but he is not the same one mentioned in Gen. 16:10.

@desodgi:

If Jesus was the angel of God in the old testament,so who is the angel of god in the new testament when the bible said In Matt. 4:11 " Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him."

As above. But then, please remember that there were several angels all through the Bible. What we should understand here is that "the Angel of the LORD" was an appellation by which the pre-incarnate Christ was called; but that does not mean that He was an "angel" in His true essence. All angels were created; but He was not.

@desodgi:

and let me make u understand this better when u said in Micah 5:2 -- "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting

when he said whose goings forth have been from of old,from everlasting. . .it simply means the word of God. Jesus is the word of God made flesh,he is the word that wore flesh for our sake. . .don't you get it?

His "goings forth have been from of old" is not referring merely to Him as the Word. In whatever way He manifested Himself to the OT saints, Micah 5:2 actually demonstrates that He was actively engaged in the world even before people got to know Him.

Even in the NT when He came into the world by Incarnation, the Bible says that they did not know Him: "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." (John 1:10).

Please try and see the point: He was already in the world; but the world did not know Him - and that was said even before vs. 14 that proclaims the Incarnation. He was already in the world, actively engaged in it; and although the world did not know Him, He still became flesh and dwelt among men.

@desodgi:

In the old testament he wasnt Jesus but the word that came forth out from God himself unto them (unbelievers)that are in the old testament through them (believers)that preach in the old testament. . . .get it now?

Well, what essentially is the difference between His existence before the Incarnation? The point is that people tend to think that Jesus did not exist before He became Man. My point actually is that He existed before He became Man, and the name (Jesus) did not change who He was before the Incarnation. If it did, then thatmakes Him a different person from who He was before He became Man.

@topic,

Only God can save us from this manifest error that is coming out of Christ Embassy.

Let me share with you one principle that my Pastor shared with us one day in Church. He said the Bible is not about God the Father, neither is it about the Holy Spirit. Rather, the Bible from cover to cover is about the Lord Jesus Christ - For in Him we live and move and have our being. For by Him are all things and in Him do all things exist.

Anyway, as we go on in this discussion, I will show you how every revelation of God in the OT was a part revelation of Jesus Christ. Everytime you find someone receiving a revelation of Jehovah, it is Jesus at work and not the Holy Spirit. Why would there be more manifestation of the Holy Spirit than Jesus when it is the knowledge of Jesus that we are told to seek and which Paul sought after all his life? - That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection.

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares (by surprise). – Hebrews 13:2

It literally says you may entertain an angel and not know it which implies that an angel can sit in front of you and you won’t even know. If angels are beings with wings and halos over their heads like religions portray them to be, then you should recognize an angel immediately. But, if an angel is a being that comes in the form of a human, then it is possible that you may not know that I am sitting with an angel. Again, these are all things within your scriptures that they try to hide and mistranslate so that you will not know what it really says.

Horus:

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares (by surprise). – Hebrews 13:2

It literally says you may entertain an angel and not know it which implies that an angel can sit in front of you and you won’t even know. If angels are beings with wings and halos over their heads like religions portray them to be, then you should recognize an angel immediately. But, if an angel is a being that comes in the form of a human, then it is possible that you may not know that I am sitting with an angel. Again, these are all things within your scriptures that they try to hide and mistranslate so that you will not know what it really says.

wow, i can't believe this, i can actually agree with Horus for once!
However just a little addition; although angels can take up the form of man and we can see them and not recognize them as angels (as it is shown in many parts of the old testament), they are actually spirits, and many times we do not even see them at all, especially during our congregations in church. (1Cor.11;10)
"Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" (Heb. 1;14)
Cheers.

Angels are everywhere, its not that complicated, so dont let it sounds like its that intricate

I would just want to advise our christ embassy friends that they should try to study the Bible for themselves rather than swallow hook, line and sinker what thier pastor tells them. Please, the berean christians are a model to follow (Acts. 17;11). there have been so many errors i've seen in this religion section that stem from these folks not cross-checking what their pastor has to say with the scriptures.
I know you guys love your pastor, but please, love the Truth more. cheers.

For our friends who say the Lord Jesus was not manifest in the OT, please do check Gen 18 through to Gen 19;1
Just a few lines:
in verse 2, it says Abraham saw three men. that means they appeared in the form of man, just as angels usually did (as well as how the Angel of the Lord usually did).
vs 22, the men turned away and left, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord. (Here the bible doesn't specify the number of men that left to go towards Sodom)
vs 23-32, Abraham intercedes before the Lord. (verse 27 shows that he is definitely not talking to an angel but to the Lord)
vs 33, says the Lord departed.
19;1 says 'the two angels'. Linking this with 18;22 clearly shows that there were two angels and the Lord that appeared as three men in 18;2.

Clearly that reference is not to the Holy Spirit, and neither is it to God the Father. The Lord clearly appeared in the form of man (18.1-2).
Again, just a few lines; i thought the scriptures was very clear so i didnt need to argue much. There's no basis for the false teaching spewing forth from the embassy. Cheers.

ricadelide:

For our friends who say the Lord Jesus was not manifest in the OT, please do check Gen 18 through to Gen 19;1

And Genesis 16 as well.

What I don't understand is the argument that Jesus did not exist until the NT. Worse than that, I had heard way back in the late '90s something like this in the same vein that God did not have a Son until Jesus was born. That kind of reasoning is unfortunate, and does not allign with the Word.

For those who disbelieve the existence of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament, how would you reconcile the Holy Verses of the Holy Bible that nobody has seen God with the vision that Isaiah experienced when he saw the Lord in Heaven? Who might it be? Of course, it is Jesus Christ that he saw. Read the link that I posted below.

Cheers

http://gohg.net/articles/sola-scriptura-in-simple-terms/who-did-isaiah-see/

Jesus never existed. These were play made by Josephus Flavius Piso, Roman Jewish Playwright.

These plays became the story (myth) of the new testament.

Don't believe me, check it out for yourself.

Just do some reseach on Josephus Flavius Piso too know exactly where the new testament is coming from.

Only the truth can set people free, because believe is ignorance.

I am in agreement with you that The angel of the Lord is deity but not Jesus for there were no manifestations of Jesus in the old testament. There was the father, the Word and the Spirit. It is that Word that became Jesus.

The manifestations of deity in the old testament are actually manifestations of the Holy Spirit and not Jesus. Even though the three persons are one, they may not manifest themselves in the same way.

The word angel can be translated as messenger. He is the one who carries the presence of God from place to place. He can take the form of a man if He chooses to. Or the form of fire or a cloud. But its all the same God manifesting himself all over the world by His Spirit. The Holy Spirit is refered to in scripture as the Angel of His presence. He is the one that followed the children of Israel all through the wilderness.

Isaiah 63:9 
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

The Holy Spirit today is the one that makes that same presence of Jesus and of the father real to us. He shows them to us for He does not speak of himself but only what he hears. Jesus said He will take of me and show it unto you.

Some today say Jesus appeared to them. It was actually the Holy Spirit who made it possible.

The son was seen by men and angels for the first time when He was born in bethlehem.

donnie:

I am in agreement with you that The angel of the Lord is deity but not Jesus for there were no manifestations of Jesus in the old testament. There was the father, the Word and the Spirit. It is that Word that became Jesus.

What are the "manifestations" of Jesus that you talk about but can't find in the OT?

donnie:

The manifestations of deity in the old testament are actually manifestations of the Holy Spirit and not Jesus. Even though the three persons are one, they may not manifest themselves in the same way.

If it is easier to see the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the OT, has He stopped manifesting Himself in the NT? What essential distinctions are you trying to make?

donnie:

The word angel can be translated as messenger. He is the one who carries the presence of God from place to place. He can take the form of a man if He chooses to.

This is the great mistake you guys have been making. I don't want to assume anything; so I'd simply ask a question: Where is it taught that the Holy Spirit was seen in "the form of a man"?

donnie:

The Holy Spirit is refered to in scripture as the Angel of His presence. He is the one that followed the children of Israel all through the wilderness.

1 Cor. 10:4 -- "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

donnie:

The son was seen by men and angels for the first time when He was born in bethlehem.

If that were true, what do you think the apostle meant when he stated: "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him" (Heb. 1:6)? What period was the apostle referring to by the word "when"?

Listen my brother, if you think i am quoting some book for you then you are mistaken because i am actually sharing with you what i have related with and what i live by.

Again, i do not have the time to spend triying to convince you by taking through scriptures. Just continue the way you are going. You will get to the point when you really need explantions. At such a time, you can humbly refer back.

I am not introducing something new. This is what had been from the begining. The church only lost it. The fact that a lie had been on the throne for ages will not make it truth.

So i rest my case till when i have time; maybe during my leave.

Shalom.

@donnie,

Pardon me, but your rejoinder simply said nothing. You would not be quoting Scripture if you had nothing to offer from 'some book' in the first place. Is it now the vogue for Christ Embassy members to offer excuses for assertions they can't defend in the WORD? And what makes you think that what I offered are issues apart from experience?

donnie:

I am not introducing something new. This is what had been from the begining. The church only lost it. The fact that a lie had been on the throne for ages will not make it truth.

In hindsight, the fact that a fallacy is being introduced to make it sound like 'what has been from the beginning' simply does not stand up to scrutiny from God's WORD. People with untenable ideologies often have the uncanny attitude of supposing that the Church 'only lost' something, so that they may introduce their own.

donnie:

So i rest my case till when i have time; maybe during my leave.

I'd be delighted to read something more to the point when you do have the time. Cheers.

Angels of God have been in existence b4 the birth of Jesus.One of the angels was what God sent to mary to tell her that she's going to give birth to a son named Isa(Jesus).So angels are creatures that God sent on errand whenever the need arises.He has sent them to several people and prophet long b4 the world was created and now so it's not a thing of pre'incarnate of Jesus.It's better if you ask question rather than making assumptions.

Angels are 40 folds times the number of human being and each of them have their task which they do for God everyday and still worshipping him.

King David said "The Lord said to my Lord" Who's Lord did David refer to?

@doyenn,

doyenn:

Angels of God have been in existence before the birth of Jesus.One of the angels was what God sent to mary to tell her that she's going to give birth to a son named Isa(Jesus).So angels are creatures that God sent on errand whenever the need arises.He has sent them to several people and prophet long before the world was created and now so it's not a thing of pre'incarnate of Jesus.It's better if you ask question rather than making assumptions.

If you'd rather asked questions instead of assuming to educate others, your bloopers would have been minimized. Did you take time at all to reason before posting that farce up there? How could God have been sending angels to several people and prophet long before the world began? Where were those people and prophets living their daily lives long before the world began? I just tire for you, doyenn!

If you don't know what people are discussing about here, just gracefully observe the thread so that you don't cause more comedies than you already posted.

doyenn:

Angels are 40 folds times the number of human being and each of them have their task which they do for God everyday and still worshipping him.

We don't have any problem with your assumptions, as long as they remain so - YOUR assumptions. But when you're assuming to know and yet have been jumbling issues, where do you go from here?

Hi everyone, read thru many of the posts here. . Pls, we are not here to prove who knows more but to learn from ourselves. The creator of this thread tho was/is blessed with her revelation of the 'angel of God' is still humble enough to say she wants to know. Now thats a Christan virtue displayed. Some have replied saying things about Christ embassy even hough the people referred to didnt say anything about Church but were just sharing their own revelation. Lets be real, We are one body in Christ.

Well to the topic. The word angel means messenger. Different angels were talked about both in OT & NT but most times Angel of the Lord was used in the OT in reference to The Angel of his presence which is the Holy Sprirt, Who is till today the messenger of God's presence. (someone already mentioned this) Isaiah 63:9. The spirit that went with the children of israel thru the wilderness.

Here is where I'm really heading to. 1 cor 10:4. talks about the Rock that followed the Israelites which is Christ. Now, the word  Christ is used inter-changably in the NT in reference to the person of Jesus and Christ. Jesus became the Christ when he was anointed with the Holy Spirit. The word "Christ" is not just another name for Jesus, but a reference to the Anointed and the Anointing that was on Him and in Him.

Anointing, as described in the Bible, can be defined as "God on flesh doing those things that flesh cannot do." The word "anoint" is "to pour on, smear all over or rub into." In the Old Testament, someone who was anointed by God for special service to God had oil poured or smeared on him.  E.g Saul, David, Samuel and co.

To be anointed by God is not only to be picked, but also to be empowered by Him for the task or position to which one is called. The Hebrew word "Messiah" and the Greek word "Christ" both mean "the Anointed." Jesus read from another Messianic prophecy in Isaiah and testified of Himself in Luke 4:18-19; Acts 10:38-9 says how that God anointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit and power. .

The anointing is God's presence by the Holy Spirit. The anointing on Jesus was by the Holy Spirit as in Luke 4:18; Acts 10:38. The anointing we have received from Jesus is by the Holy Spirit. (Compare 1 John 2:20, 26-27; John 14:26.) The anointing is God's Spirit and power for service in this earth. Jesus has provided the same presence of the Holy Spirit for us in our earthly ministries that He had in His earthly ministry.

Now Christ In I cor 5:17 does not refer to the persn of Jesus but Christ - the anointing(the place of "the Christian". Philippians 4:13 "I can do all things through Christ (the Anointed and His Anointing) which strengtheneth me". He was talking about the anointing. God lives in us today, how? By his Spirit-"Christ in us."

How can one explain how that these people of God journeyed through the wilderness for 40 yrs and they didn't out-grow their sandals? Only by God's power-His Spirit. Water came out of the rock by that same Spirit. The Red sea divided by that same Spirit- The Angel of the Lord; of his Presence. That's the same anointing that enabled us to be born again and heals our body, helps us succeed in business, and empowers us to prosper spirit, soul, body and in every aspect of our lives.

The word was what has been in the begining until he became flesh according to Jhn 1. Then 1Jhn 5:7. . Genesis1 talks about God's creation. Elohim is used for God which is the plural form of God. The Father, the voice and the Spirit were the ones introduced. The Psalmist prophesied about the son and so did many other Prophets.

I will end here today. waiting for ur replies.

@ Pilgrim, u sound like shahan, u know her?

No, a student can not invite you to canada unless that student is a citizeen or a permanent resident that is sound financially.

@captjones,

captjones:

No, a student can not invite you to canada unless that student is a citizeen or a permanent resident that is sound financially.

You miss road?