Hi again @donnie,

Many thanks for yours. I do hope that others would not be further amazed that we're actually taking on a separate topic entirely besides the present one. So, I've tried to open a new thread where we can discuss further. Please refer by clicking here.

Cheers.

NOT TRUE!

It is because you haven't properly defined sin that is the reason you find it hard to understand me. This is the reason He prayed the father to let this cup pass from Him. It wasnt the physical death or the beatings. It was the fact that He will become sin for us. He would be seperated from the father who does not behold iniquity. That is why on the cross, when the father turned His back on Jesus he cried out: My God My God. why has thou forsaken me?


Sin is more than an act, it is the nature of Satan; just like righteousness is more than an act but the very nature of God. It is that sin nature that God seeks to deal with for at the new birth this nature is completely supplanted(not renewed or refurbished) with the divine nature. And this has nothing to do with what the man did or did not do.

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil. . .

You are either a child of God or a child of satan; no middle ground.

In the same way Christ became sin for us; the one who believes is made(not just righteous but) the righteousness of God in Him.

It reminds me of the brazen serpent which Moses made to save the Isrealites from death. That serpent (which is a symbol of sin) was spoken of agian in the new testament. For in the same way that serpent was lifted up on that rod, so the son of man is lifted today for the world to see and believe.


John 3:14
"As [Num 21:9] Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must [Matt 8:20] the Son of Man [John 8:28; 12:34] be lifted up;

A lack of proper understanding of the message of salvation is what is responsible for the weakness we see in the church today.



@ Donnie

Very deep truths but you twisted it. This is one of the problems of listening to "men of God" and not searching for God.

Jesus did not take the nature of Satan he took the nature of THE PUNISHMENT that we inherited from Satan. I was discussing sometime ago with someone that God out of love allowed his son to be punished and this meant in the law and moreover courts of human beings that for God to allow his Holy son to die for sons of devils you can say he transgressed but who shall Judge God?

Satan knows that God is Love and he will do everything for love. Satan tried God too far and God warned him until Satan wared with God.
However there is no Law Against the perfect law of love.

For Jesus to carry the nature of Satan is to want to Subject God into servitude. Satan is at war with God and it looks as if he is winning.

Please don't listen to this false preacher whole heartedly. They don't quote scripture they use LOGIC 90%. We Know them.

I will post them soon because I will listen to their doctrines and compare with scripture. The raising of Jesus on the tree is the punishment of Sinners. You dont carry whole heartedly the scenes and play them as though the situation was the same.

The punishment of crime was hanging on he tree. The Brazen image is a symbol that is you dont look on the snake you will be bitten by the life snake.

The similitude is in the Blood from the cross. So that is we are washed in the blood of the Lamb we shall inherit life and live as Lamb now and in the world to come as kings or Lions.

We are look at the Blood or (The Life) Christ so that we live his live as lambs.

@donnie,

Just for the meantime, I'd like you to carefully think on a few things and then address them in the new thread I opened for the discussion:

donnie:

pilgrim.1 link=topic=61317.msg1578130#msg1578130 date=1192147285:

(a) nowhere in Scripture is Christ said to have taken upon himself the nature of satan.

NOT TRUE!

It is because you haven't properly defined sin that is the reason you find it hard to understand me.

Okay then. Here are just two things for you to resolve:

[list]* Since your reply says it is "NOT TRUE" that Christ is noweher said in Scripture to have taken upon Himself the NATURE of SATAN, I would like you to post the verses where indeed the WORD of God says otherwise that He did so!

* It would also be interesting that you help us with a PROPER definition of SIN so that we can understand you better[/list]

Could you help do so? Thank you.

Meanwhile, you may post your replies in the other thread: (click here). Cheers.

@ NUSH,
Was that passage you pasted from one of the asian religions like Eckankar and Hindu?


@ Topic,
Please, you guys are failing to answer Reverends question and why are you guys so particular about Angels? What difference will it make if you see an Angel or not?

@ Ndipe,
Your faith shouldn't be strenghtened by reading about an angel or angelic activities. This very path you are threading is what brought the Roman catholic church to it's present state and it is what brought errors to the lives of many great men of God. I am not saying you should know more about God's Ministers but rather be very careful so as not to loose focus of Christ. I will say more later. I have to go.

Hi @KDK,

KDK:

@ Topic,
Please, you guys are failing to answer Reverends question and why are you guys so particular about Angels? What difference will it make if you see an Angel or not?

Perhaps some of us may not have seen or noticed Reverend's question. Would you like to also contribute answers thereto?

Now, I think there's a huge difference in this matter of considering this matter about angels (if there was not such a difference, one would wonder why you were admonishing Ndipe thereto as well). For starters, it is necessary that we distinguish between 'an angel' and THE Angel of the LORD, at least for 2 basic reasons:

[list]
(a) so that we don't make the mistake of worshipping angels (Revelation 22:8-9). Good to note, as you did, that an unbalanced and unhealthy conception of the Biblical teaching about angels will lead people to the error that the Catholic Church finds herself in today!

(b) so that we don't make the mistake of buying into false "Gospels" purported to have been brought by any "angel from heaven" (Galatians 1:8-9 and 2 Corinthians 11:3-4). This is the time when they are particularly active in this sort of deception - and we already know how many "angel religions" are purporting to have met Christ and brought a special revelation from Him![/list]

Certainly there are more reasons why we have to be careful here; and that is why even more we would like to study and discuss this subject.

Cheers.

@KDK,

am not saying you should know more about God's Ministers but rather be very careful so as not to loose focus of Christ. I will say more later. I have to go.

If you have followed this discussion carefully, you will find that the focus by both pilgrim and myself is Christ. I am of the opinion that the Bible is not about God the Father, neither is it about the Holy Spirit, but rather it is ALL about the Son of God whom we know as Jesus Christ.

That is why I am laboring to prove that the one refered to as the Angel of the Lord in the OT is actually the Son of God. So you see, your concerns are the same as ours (pilgrim and me), and we are doing what we can to bring attention to this deep truth in the scriptures.

Stay tuned for more!

Of course the whole Bible is about the revelation of Jesus Christ. There is a saying which while maybe cliched is worth repeating: "The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed while the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed".

In the Old Testament we get tastes of what the whole Biblical revelation is all about with foreshadows and the like; in the New Testament we see in full, what the Old Testament was leading up to. I wonder how those who say Jesus could not be identified in the Old Testament reconciles that with the passage in Hebrews: 'Jesus, the same yesterday, today and forever'.

In fairness the Old Testament can be difficult, and one can see how people get into misunderstanding. But if they understand what the New Testament reveals about the purpose of God it becomes easier to read the Old Testament properly.

PS the teaching that Christ was just a man with 'anointing' (hence "Jesus Christ the anointed one and his anointing" is another soothing nice sounding heresy coming from people like Ken Copeland and Creflo Dollar. It denies the truth of New Testament and Biblical revelation of the person of the Christ, the Messiah.

Enigma:

PS the teaching that Christ was just a man with 'anointing' (hence "Jesus Christ the anointed one and his anointing" is another soothing nice sounding heresy coming from people like Ken Copeland and Creflo Dollar. It denies the truth of New Testament and Biblical revelation of the person of the Christ, the Messiah.

Pls Enigma, i would like you to summarise the heart of the message of these people you mentioned above pls cos I know that the Christ (meant The Annointed One).

Jesus is the son of God and it is impossible for the son of God to be born again. Holiness is one of the attributes of God and Jesus being the son of God is holy. How then can he be born again since he commited no sin. To argue that Jesus carried the sins of the world on himself and then became a sinner contradicts the very nature of God. It is impossible for God to sin either directly or by carrying the sins of others.

This is another proof that the Angel of the Lord is Jesus Christ

http://www.geoffrobinson.net/jewishtopics/angel.html

Conquest of Canaan Promised

20(A) "Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice;(B) do not rebel against him,(C) for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him. 22"But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then(D) I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

http://www.geoffrobinson.net/jewishtopics/angel.html