^^^ You see why you are fooling and confusing yourself and your theology is just nonsensical.

If you need to "lead them to Christ", that means they are/were not Christians; BUT you are the same person who says God does not hear the prayers of non-Christians.

In any event it is rubbish; if God heals you, he heals you and it is permanent. If fake healers like Oyakhilome, Cerullo etc lie that a person is healed we have seen many examples where they died --- including this poor four year old girl. You and your lot stink and are odious to right thinking people - whether Christian or not.

@Joagbaje

Enigma asked you

1. The parents' faith was strong enough to ensure the girl's healing but not strong enough to retain it?
2. Which of the two requires stronger faith - healing in the first place or retention of healing?

you ducked those questions and are trying to muddy the waters

You say :That is why it's important when someone gets healed, he has to be led to christ immediately, and he should be nurtured in the word of God. To build their faith
I say : If the person did not have faith to start with, how did he get healed in the first place.

The God I serve will not let sickness return to a four year old child because of the parents lack of faith. Do you really believe this ?

You are making up all this crap just to justify a 'FALSE' healing. You fool - that girl was NEVER healed in the first place!!

^^ Sorry but what did you say or answer above? A child is ill and you say God healed her but the Merciful Gracious Almighty God punished the lack of faith of parents BY KILLING an innocent child? Are you people human at all and do you even know the Character of a Loving Father or do you simply see God as an ATM machine with no feelings?

If you have no sensible response, why not keep quiet? Your response above is the type that gets you into the type of trouble you want to avoid and makes you quietly ask for peace whist openly ridiculing yourselves and the Name of the Heavenly Father.

In a crusade or church service when a healing anointing is working, someone who is not born again do get healed sometimes . Thats what I'm referring to. Especially if their case is demonically related. When a minister rebukes devils of infirmity , the demons comes out of many that may not even be saved as yet. These parts are operations of the holy spirit. Sometimes he does his one thing to the amazement of everyone . There are cases where someone that didn't expect a healing gets a surprise gift. If any of such people were not saved, the first thing is to lead them to christ. If not when the devil comes back ,the dont have legal ground to resist the invasion.

nuclearboy:

^^ Sorry but what did you say or answer above? A child is ill and you say God healed her but the Merciful Gracious Almighty God punished the lack of faith of parents BY KILLING an innocent child? Are you people human at all and do you even know the Character of a Loving Father or do you simply see God as an ATM machine with no feelings?

If you have no sensible response, why not keep quiet? Your response above is the type that gets you into the type of trouble you want to avoid and makes you quietly ask for peace whist openly ridiculing yourselves and the Name of the Heavenly Father.

I never said God punished them or killed the child. The Devil is the one responsible. God doesn't punish anyone. I don't know the details of Cerrullo case . I only said such thing is possible. There are people you can carry your faith because they can't have faith. A man in comma, a man with mental case, or a child that is not up to accountability to know God personally.

@Joagabje

I am sorry, but you cannot back out of this one.

We all know a 4 year old child cannot have faith - so if God heals that child, dont you think God will take care of the child and not allow the 'devil to return' as you put it ? What you are saying in effect is - because the parents do not have faith to 'hold' the miracle - God lets the devil return the sickness to the child. Does this sound like the God you read about in the bible ? Does this sound like why christ died on the cross ?

You have implied God lets the devil kill children because of the parents lack of faith - that is despicable. You should apologize and pray to God for forgiveness instead of trying to weasel your way out.

What about children that didnt get healed why didn't a good  God heal them. Why did Hod allow children to be attacked by the devil? Why didn't he prevent it.

Elisha prophesied for a barren woman to have a son. So we can say the child was a special gift from God. But one day the child was struck dead. Why didn't God prevent the special child from that attack. The woman faith had to swing into action before the man of God btought him back .We are in a wicked world . Ghats why the head of a home has to be spiritual so that his umbrella can cover his home. It's the devil that comes to steal and kill and destroy. God won't  stop him. Our faith can resist him

James 4:7
7 Submit  yourselves  to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

1 Pet 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith. .

@Joagbaje:

True, Jesus did not heal every human on the surface of the earth who was afflicted and the Angel that stirred the pool did not heal everyone by it.

But Please, I beg you, PLEASE, let us fear God. What the Bible says is "if God be for us, who can be against us". This is TOTALLY supported by God's Word - can you show ONE SINGLE instance where Jesus or His Apostles healed anyone and the devil was able to come back? If effect, which did God "give" that satan claimed back? Sure, Christ said demons would roam and try to return but is cancer a demon? Why didn't any illness/disease return in the Bible? Why is it only in these cases? Has the devil now overcome God or is it just the simple truth that there was actually no healing?

Enigma asked you a question recently that you dodged - how many times did the Apostles know they were going out to heal? Is it not instead true that they just lived their normal lives and found the power of God flowing through them without prior plans? Can you show ONE healing school or process where people were taught to "claim" or "retain" healing?

Jesus told people after healing them to go and sin no more OR what will happen?

Something worse will come upon them. You dont go and sleep after getting healed bc the devil has not gone to sleep in that case. His aim is to kill, he goes around seeking who to destroy. People need to be thought the word of God on how to stay healthy after healing as Jesus warned pple after healing them.

^^^ I hope we have a civil discussion if truly knowledge is desired and brains are to be used. As you people like to say - "the letter killeth".

Yes, Christ told them to go and sin no more.

But you have added your own to His Words forgetting there is a curse when you add to or subtract from God's Word. But lets not argue about it - show us FROM THE BIBLE what He said would happen to them if they sinned.

Then tell us - the four year old girl should go and sin no more? What does she know sin to be? At 4?

Or are you saying it was because her parents sinned that she was "punished" by God?

But first tell us where Jesus said "something worse would happen if they sinned".

Then tell us how you figure out "Let God be true and all men liars". And if they be liars, how could they sin no more? And if they sinned simply by being liars as God says in His Word, how come all the people Christ healed retained their own healing and it is prosperity love-vendor healers that "lose" healing? Or where did Peter/Paul/Biblical healing get lost or "something worse happened".

Demons and healing ARE different things, mind you!

@Joagbaje

You say:
It's the devil that comes to steal and kill and destroy. God won't  stop him. Our faith can resist him

Have you lost your mind ? What is wrong with you ? All these rubbish just because you want us to keep believing in your 419 charlatans ? Have you no shame ? Where is your sense of decency ?
How can someone like you claim to be a christian ? What is wrong with you ?

If you really pastor a church like it is alleged - you should be ashamed of yourself, you are worse than the charlatans - at least they know the crap they are preaching is crap, you on the other hand seem to believe all the nonsense you say.

@Joagbaje

You should be suspended from the Christ embassy church your defence and answers to questions is so fake and implicating in such that a sound bible student can easily figure out that you are just a follow follow christian you do not have any personal conviction of what you confess to believe. I am a Christ embassy member at least I fellowship there, but i refuse to be an inner caucus member, that does not mean i should hail everything they do there. What are we trying to interpret here that God heal somebody and after 2 days she dies and we are talking about faith? simple truth is that, when Cerulo made that false declaration of healing with his lying tongue the parents stop giving the kid the drugs for her ailment so she died. Simple. Meaning the little girl was never healed. "The blessing of God maketh rich and added no sorrow to it" this include healing and financial blessing. God gives and never take back. You do not need to teach anybody to retain healing. That is why the healing school thing is a smart way of trick.

Ganjaseed:

@Joagbaje

You should be suspended from the Christ embassy church your defence and answers to questions is so fake and implicating in such that a sound bible student can easily figure out that you are just a follow follow christian you do not have any personal conviction of what you confess to believe. I am a Christ embassy member at least I fellowship there, but i refuse to be an inner caucus member, that does not mean i should hail everything they do there. What are we trying to interpret here that God heal somebody and after 2 days she dies and we are talking about faith? simple truth is that, when Cerulo made that false declaration of healing with his lying tongue the parents stop giving the kid the drugs for her ailment so she died. Simple. Meaning the little girl was never healed. "The blessing of God maketh rich and added no sorrow to it" this include healing and financial blessing. God gives and never take back. You do not need to teach anybody to retain healing. That is why the healing school thing is a smart way of trick.

Finish! Only a dishonest person will contest this. In playing Satan's advocate, Jo is giving himself and CE a worse name. Truth should come before loyalty and if its difficult to tell the truth, then keep quiet.

nuella2:

Jesus told people after healing them to go and sin no more OR what will happen?
Something worse will come upon them.

Luke 11:24 d himself in the word of God after his healing
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. 25 And when he cometh, he findeth [it] swept and garnished. 26 Then goeth he, and taketh [to him] seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there

@Nuclearboy,
It's a spiritual principle. If a man is healed or a demon is cast out of a man and he does not grow himself in the word
The demon( now homeless and looking for where to stay) will come back and on meeting the place( the mans body) empty will call other stronger demons to dwell in that body which could lead to something worse probably a loss of life. It is in this regards that a man is encouraged to learn, study and ground himself in the word of God

nuclearboy:

@Joagbaje:
Can you show ONE healing school or process where people were taught to "claim" or "retain" healing?

In the healing school, the students are taught how to recieve their miracles by faith and also how to retain it. They are also given materials for these puposes. I know of 3 books that are given to them, one is  counter attack, another is how to recieve a miracle and retain it, can't remember the third right now

Ganjaseed:

@Joagbaje
"The blessing of God maketh rich and added no sorrow to it" this include healing and financial blessing. God gives and never take back.

so who says God took her back

Ganjaseed:

@Joagbaje
You do not need to teach anybody to retain healing.

So why did Jesus tell the man to go and sin no more lets something worse come upon him
IThat's teaching him to retain his healing

Here is where we always have problems with you - this deliberate dishonesty as though you speak to children you can bully or pull the wool over their eyes.

I put a caveat up there - healing and demons are DIFFERENT. And I put it up there because I know you will want to use that mis-interpretation to support yourselves. Why can't we be honest for once?

Stop making it out as though all illness is demons. Cripples, the Blind, Cancer, HIV - these are not demons but physical afflictions. The example from Luke above is dishonest as you are using headache medicine to treat a knife-cut. This is not about winning an argument at all cost but about simple honest truth.

Jesus was SPECIFICALLY speaking of demons wanting to return, NOT of illness or blindness or death wanting to return. Except if you are saying the little girl's ailment was a demon - is that what you wish to say? Then please prove it! Else, leave the issue - dishonesty does not make anybody look good and is particularly saddening in Christians.

They are even playing a sleight of hand with "Go and sin no more".

Who did Jesus tell "Go and sin no more"? How many people did Jesus tell "Go and sin no more"?

It's true that many ailment came by natural cause . Such as accidents etc. Satan is still responsible for most sickneses .Cases such as ulcer, cancer, blindness have been healed by the power of God. There is a different between a man that became deaf by puncturing his hear drum and a man that became Deaf by spirit of deafness But the power of God still heals them all. The ailment that come by natural causes may require medical attention but it's still advisable to deal with it by prayer first before medicine. Prayer can speed up medical treatment. Healing anointing can handle such too. God created human body to be able to repair itself. What slows down the body immune system ? The word of God is applicable in all cases according to the faith of individual

Some illnesses are caused by wrong habits most times,something as minute as not washing your hands properly after using the restroom can lead to serious health issues eventually.
Naturally the body is programmed to respond to micro organisms that find their way into the body and wade them off,,but sometimes this does not happen depending on so many factors.
But then it does not matter the origin of the illness it is still subject to the word of god
Most times as individuals we do not know if the illness is as a result of our carelessness or if it is spiritual, it only takes the anointing to know if it is an attack from the enemy,
Even in the hospital we have to run so many tests at various instances to determine the causative factor and sometimes we treat the symptoms while still trying to find out the cause
Before you take a medical step in any ailment it's better to pray first and declare healing,
It's god who created doctors anyway so he knows how best to handle a situation.

And now because there is nothing to say, it has become an appeal to give God a "chance" first? Even before going to hospital.

Na wa O - people should just come, at all costs, whether necessary or not, whether applicable or not. The crusades should just be full so crowds can be shown on TV/satellite and whist the innocent people are waiting for the miracle that MAY or MAY NOT come (since its their faith), they should loosen their purse strings. That one does NOT require faith. Just drop the money, thank you. And if you die because you delayed getting medical care, its your faith that was not strong enough.

I definitely know this is not of the God of the Bible.

nuclearboy:

And now because there is nothing to say, it has become an appeal to give God a "chance" first? Even before going to hospital.  

Medical treatment is for a level of cases. Someone who doesn't feed well may take food supplement and some vitamins. We call it drugs. A man may experience cold because of lack of vitamin C. Taking citrus fruits like oranges may solve the problem . (Azibalua correct me if I'm wrong)

We don't generalise sicknesses. They have different origins .Paul told timothy to take wine for medicinal purpose. 

1 Timothy 5:23
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

It depends on the level of faith of the individuals. Even though Jesus said "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God"(Luke 4:4)  

A christian that gets wounded may require first Aids. But he ought to lay hands on that thing first and pronounce healing before medical. Even as at that,Having faith in medicine only is carnality . 

That's why God was angry with king Asa.

2Chronicles 16:12
 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease [was] exceeding [great]: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians. 13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died. . . 

God created medicine for a level of life. There is a higher level of life. Beyond all these . That's where we should desire to function.

Demons are responsible for most sicknesses , when they are cast out , healing can take place.

Mark 16:17 
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Na wa O - people should just come, at all costs, whether necessary or not, whether applicable or not. The crusades should just be full so crowds can be shown on TV/satellite and whist the innocent people are waiting for the miracle that MAY or MAY NOT come (since its their faith), they should loosen their purse strings. That one does NOT require faith. Just drop the money, thank you. And if you die because you delayed getting medical care, its your faith that was not strong enough.

Everybody may not be healed , but the majority that believe receive. That is why the word of God is taught first so that people can have faith to be healed . The primary purpose for such programmes is not even the healing. It is the salvation of men. The healing is to draw men to God for salvation.

@Nuclearboy,
must you always make reference to money, there is no post you make that does not talk about money
Your alethia should be telling you about 'out of the abundance of the heart' preaching

God is uttermost in all, even the doctors that are born again christians acknowledge this
I know a doctor, before he handles any case, he prays, that is the kind of doctor that will not have a patient die in his hands

^^^

Why don't you pick a mirror and look in it, woman? You DARE say I always speak about money? Are you not the one who calls everybody 'poor' and sees life only as Naira and Kobo? Is it not you that knows who is poor and will remain so? Is it not you that sees cars in churches and goes around looking at the homes of the "big boys" in town? Are you not the one who is so stuck up on money, money, money that it is the reason why you go to church and come here to defend every scam that is giving Christianity a bad name? Is it not only when attempts are made to temper down the greed in Christendom today and correct false impressions given by those who would use the Gospel for private gain that your hackles rise and you appear barking like a deranged canine?

Yet you offer such a base lie openly? 

Pleaseeeeezz!! Go away - you are irrelevant anyway.

@Jo:

You say the majority that "believe" receive? Yet you haven't confirmed one independently since the days of SirJohn's thread. Not EVEN one! Just claims and a desire that everyone believes you.

When you say healing is to draw men to God for salvation, I want to believe you are joking? Are you then finally admitting that it is because of what you can get that you are serving God? Because you are basically saying you use the promise of healing to "lure" people to come. Do you realize what you just posted again? Please clarify so I can show you the error in this and if you will, let us know if this is the position of your pastor.

But hey, Lets be realistic in thinking here. Is there any need for an healing school? Did the Apostles erect healing schools? Did the prophets of old run healing schools? please can someone point out an example of an healing school in the bible?

nuclearboy:
.

@Jo:

You say the majority that "believe" receive? Yet you haven't confirmed one independently since the days of SirJohn's thread. Not EVEN one! Just claims and a desire that everyone believes you.

We have several cases . AFF programme on TV are full of verified testimonies sanctioned by NBC. I know 2couples that had no child for years after marriage . They went for the healing school, and their wives took in the following month. One 15 years if marriage the other about 4years or so. Numerous testimonies.

When you say healing is to draw men to God for salvation, I want to believe you are joking? Are you then finally admitting that it is because of what you can get that you are serving God? Because you are basically saying you use the promise of healing to "lure" people to come. Do you realize what you just posted again? Please clarify so I can show you the error in this and if you will, let us know if this is the position of your pastor.

The primary purpose of any programme is salvation of men. That's the greatest miracle . When people see miracles , they believe in him . The Jesus that can heal is the person to follow.  

John 2:23
23 . . many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

LoveKing:

But hey, Lets be realistic in thinking here. Is there any need for an healing school? Did the Apostles erect healing schools? Did the prophets of old run healing schools? please can someone point out an example of an healing school in the bible?

Forget the name. Look at the principles. when Jesus went to his home town, he couldn't do much miracle because of their unbelief. So Jesus went about their cities preaching ,teaching and healing. The antidote for unbelief is teaching.that is what the healing school is about. Teaching people to have faith to be healed

Acts14:7
And there they preached the gospel. 8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

@Joagbaje:

2 things!

1. NBC never said anybody show not show miracles. What they said was that they would verify any such claims. Since that day, your pastor chris disappeared from miracle shows in Nigeria and up till today, any miracles shown are not under NBC jurisdiction. Yet you say NBC verified his miracles. Why are you lying to yourself? Why did he run away if they verified his miracles?

2.You didn't answer my question. You just evaded it totally and answered what nobody asked you - read above again.

Just a poser - do you believe God is true and EVERYMAN is a liar? E V E R Y M A N ? ?

Enigma,nuclearboy,etc. . . You guys are yet to show scriptural references to you claims,i mean give me bible quotes.and meanwhile,i'd be glad to take your questions,just outline them all.Now,when i defend mine with verses and credible points,you should reciprocate,and i'd love your responses to be short and precise, mabell,nuella,joagbaje,etc. . .You guys are inspirational,am sure some guys out here cant stand you all,because of reasons i fail to fathom.love you all

Joagbaje:


Please are you Gombs? There is reason for my question & I speak to you only in this

Nuclearboy. . . Are you sacred of asking me?. . . On our previous encounters here on nairaland,did my answers to your question seem similar to that of joagbaje's?its sure proof that you are left dumbfounded whenever i ask or answer you a question.dont worry,dont be sacred. . . Bring it on

^^^

Yes, I am "SACRED" of you, I am usually "SACRED" of dolts, half-educated numbskulls and social misfits with chips on their shoulders and delusions of grandeur.

Why not return to high school for a refresher course in english rather than showing the emptiness between your ears online?

Gombs:

Nuclearboy. . . Are you sacred of asking me?. . . On our previous encounters here on nairaland,did my answers to your question seem similar to that of joagbaje's?its sure proof that you are left dumbfounded whenever i ask or answer you a question.dont worry,dont be sacred. . . Bring it on

Firstly, he is mabell, then azibalua then simlplymee and now gombs
I wonder who's next