MuttleyLaff:
Try saying ''your claims are false'' again

How you managed to read ''murder'' into that narrative wont cease to amaze me

These are the generations of Jacob. Joseph, being seventeen years old,
was feeding the flock with his brethren; and the lad was with the sons of Bilhah,
and with the sons of Zilpah, his father's wives: and Joseph brought unto his father their evil report.
- Genesis 37:2 KJV

The hebrew word used in the Elisha narrative is ''naar.''As in the original text, it is the same word seen in Genesis 37:2 above, used for a 17 years old Joseph. In the Bible, ''naar'' means young man, servant or attendant a lot more than it means child or children

Talking about temple, Bethel as a matter of truth, was a hotbed due to the sins of Jeroboam (i.e. legacy of King Jeroboam I, setting up the worshipping of golden calves, one in Dan, the other in Bethel) and so, the young men were attendants at the Bethel temple

It was a face-off between good and evil. The battle lines were drawn by the young men prepared to fight and who were bent on stopping Elisha coming to Bethel. Breaking up the group of young men is the justification, no, not for murder,
There was no murder rather it was recorded as a SPLIT. The group of energised and frenzied young men were split up. The group of young men's survival instincts kicked in making them do a helter-skelter dash to safety

Except for just you, a born fabulist, I doubt this your DOCTUFOS OF TRUTH strange theology has a following. With it, you seems to take unhealthy pleasure in inventing crooked accounts and go to extra-ordinary lengths to elaborately type out dishonest stories

No offense, but is this your DOCTUFOS OF TRUTH some kind of perverse joke?

MuttleyLaff:
They werent kids, these were young men on a concerted attack and organised mission that God and His prophet representing Him, are not wanted, would not be tolerated and are not welcome in their city.

Nothing hilarious in this tragic incident, but quite a lot to learn from and out of it, I'll say.

There isnt any struggle in explaining the passage. The passage is more like, if you know, you know. Who no know, no go know

They werent children, they were youths, young men, about same age as Elisha in fact, when the bears attacked.

Death is inevitable. Something must kill a man. Death will come and is mandatory too

Death is a universal truth that can never be defied. We cant change this truth, we all are born with limited breath. Weirdly enough, when you come to think of of it, there are no punishment far worse than death.

They were killed, mauled by the bears. The young men were frozen to the spot with fright when the bears appeared. They likely wanted to run but their feet were literally rooted to the ground, as if glued to the spot and locked-in to the ground. They couldnt run, because they were paralysed out of fear of seeing two blood thirsty bears baying for their puny hide and arse.

Ecclesiastes 7:17 states that:
"Do not excel at wickedness, nor be a fool. Why die before your time?"

Those young men got their comeuppance. They carelessly shortened their lives by their bad and/or foolish actions. Abraham and Jacob, probably were turning in their graves at the behaviour of those young men. Abraham and Jacob, were probably rubbing their eyes in disbelief, wondering isnt this the same Bethel we knew and a place we associated with God.

It is tragic, that because Deuteronomy chapets 5 & 6 were ignored, the young men didnt live a long time, didnt enjoy a long life and the promise that their days may be long didnt happen for them.

There was a covenant between them and God. The covenant had terms and conditions. Read Deuteronomy 5:1-33, noting Deuteronomy 5:33 particularly and/or Deuteronomy 6:1-25, especially Deuteronomy 6:15, to know more about the covenant made between them and God at Mount Horeb.

The contribution OLAADEGBU posted on that thread went swoosh over everyone's head, like as if it was a Naija Airforce fighter jet and "people didn't know warris going on"

MuttleyLaff:

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MuttleyLaff:

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Acehart:
Nice try. I like you narrative; however, those youths were not killed by the bears, as you wrote. They were mauled- torn or wounded. Because of this conclusion, you don’t win the 1000 credit prize.

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
We dont do this for winning 1000 credit prize(s)
Would have gone to charity anyway
They were killed from being mauled- torn or wounded by the bears.

Acehart:
Where was it written that the bears killed those lads? From the account, it seems there were more than forty-two of them, and only the number mauled was recorded.

MuttleyLaff:
"Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the LORD.
At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys."
- 2 Kings 2:24

Acehart:
Uhm. In your first post you contradicted yourself;

Acehart:
but I guess you have made a stand now - the lads were killed.

Acehart:
This shows that you do your study with the contemporary English version. If you really do use this Bible version, you will mislead yourself and a lot of people. I’m just thinking of the movie Revenant and pondering.

OLAADEGBU:
Natty Joe, where's the thread you're referring to? Happy Sunday.

MuttleyLaff:
Explain how I contradicted myself

You forced my hand to make a stand and outright come out to repeat saying that they were killed. Remember that in my original post I typed "They were killed, mauled by the bears" and "...Those young men got their comeuppance. They carelessly shortened their lives by their bad and/or foolish actions ..."

Bears, tigers, lions, wolves, hyenas, wild boar pigs et cetera dont maul people for fun. People if they dont instantly die, eventually die from the injuries sustained from the mauling, dont you agree?

Acehart:
Good morning. Hope you had a good night’s rest?

In the first two part response you gave, you argued with whosoever you were responding to that the lads were split up and not killed. In the second part, you outrightly said that the lads were killed.

Acehart:
Hugh Glass (Leonardo DiCaprio) wasn’t killed by the bear. If that 10 foot bear focused on one person like it did in the movie, then we would have only one casualty and not forty two.

Acehart:
I’d just like to ask you this: if those kids were killed, do you think Bethel would have granted Elisha passage? Do you think the same treatment Jesus got for killing the Gadara swines would be the same treatment that would have been dispensed to Elisha?

I’d like to imagine that the kids were killed, as you have said; do you think an ‘avenger of blood’ would have found an occasion to go after Elisha?

MuttleyLaff:
Hi bro, in the first response, I was making a distinction between murder and kill. Of course, the lads as I always have maintained were killed but not murder as the other poster was arguing to

Please you're too street to be taken in by Hollywood blockbusters nah.

Do you know incessant shouting, boos and cries will do to two nursing mother grizzling bears

I’d just like to ask you this: if those kids were killed, do you think Bethel would have granted Elisha passage? Do you think the same treatment Jesus got for killing the Gadara swines would be the same treatment that would have been dispensed to Elisha?

I’d like to imagine that the kids were killed, as you have said; do you think an ‘avenger of blood’ would have found an occasion to go after Elisha? Let me return back to you on this, as I am already late in stepping out for work because I am replying you, lmso. I'll be right asap back. OK?

Acehart:
I’d just like to ask you this:
"if those kids were killed, do you think Bethel would have granted Elisha passage?
Do you think the same treatment Jesus got for killing the Gadara swines would be the same treatment that would have been dispensed to Elisha?"

I’d like to imagine that the kids were killed, as you have said; do you think an ‘avenger of blood’ would have found an occasion to go after Elisha?

MuttleyLaff:
Hi bro, in the first response, I was making a distinction between murder and kill. Of course, the lads as I always have maintained were killed but not murdered as the other poster was arguing to

Please you're too streetwise to be taken in by Hollywood blockbusters film nah.

Do you know WHAT incessant shouting, boos and cries will do to two nursing mother grizzling bears

Let me return back to you on this, as I am already late in stepping out for work because I am replying you, lmso. I'll be right asap back. OK

Acehart:
Okay, I’ll wait

Acehart:



I’d like to imagine that the kids were killed, as you have said; do you think an ‘avenger of blood’ would have found an occasion to go after Elisha?

elated177:



What do you mean by the 'avenger of blood?' How does that factor into the event?

Acehart:
I’d like to imagine that the kids were killed, as you have said; do you think an ‘avenger of blood’ would have found an occasion to go after Elisha?

elated177:
What do you mean by the 'avenger of blood?' How does that factor into the event?

MuttleyLaff:
Hi bro, in the first response, I was making a distinction between murder and kill. Of course, the lads as I always have maintained were killed but not murdered as the other poster was arguing to

MuttleyLaff:




"²¹Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins.
²²I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children,
destroy your livestock, and make you few in number; and your highways shall be desolate."
- Leviticus 26:21-22

"So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee (i.e. leave you childless)
and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee;
and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it."
- Ezekiel 5:17

"¹⁵Suppose I send wild animals through that country and they make it childless
and turn it into such a wasteland that no one travels through it because of the animals.
²¹"For this is what the Lord GOD says:
How much worse will it be when I send my four devastating judgments against Jerusalem
--sword, famine, dangerous animals, and plague
--in order to wipe out both man and animal from it!"
- Ezekiel 14:15 & 21

"I’d just like to ask you this:
"if those kids were killed, do you think Bethel would have granted Elisha passage?
Do you think the same treatment Jesus got for killing the Gadara swines would be the same treatment that would have been dispensed to Elisha?" was your comment I left hanging in the air without responding to, right, hmm?

My response is, Elisha was already enroute out of town, if not already, out of the town during the melee of the two stressed up bears unleashing themselves on the young men. The point I am making is this. Elisha didnt hang about in the town, as if waiting for a red carpet to be rolled out, he didnt hang about to face any treatment, like Yahsua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, being unceremoniously asked to leave town.

Now that I have answered your question, please share a moment of what you "virgin" make of the above Leviticus 26:21-22, Ezekiel 5:17 and Ezekiel 14:15 & 21 verses and how you reflect on and/or about them in relation to this thread you created with the "Elisha, The Youths And The She-bears" heading title. I tried to stick with KJV, as much as I can, for your sake, lmso.

Acehart:
Ehen, here is the account from the narrative: Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city.

You see, Elisha didn’t enter Bethel yet when he was mobbed.

Acehart:
Then, all the Bible reference you stated where speaking about the elements of God’s judgement upon a disbelieving people. The devourers of the scriptures to wit are: the sword, famine, pestilence and wild beasts, had a wide reach, so to say, rather that this microscopic event. All but a few bible versions says tear or wounded, not killing. (Below is a screen shot of the Hebrew Bible translation). A couple of chapters later, we see the beginning of the judgment against Israel with the sword of Assyrian raised against them. I’d like to stick with the best translations regarding this event - the maiming of the lads by the she-bears.

MuttleyLaff:
1/ What is the reason why Elisha dd not get there? What prevented him, what stood in his way, was he waylaid, was he ambused et cetera
2/ What are you historically aware going as far back as with Jacob, in mind, do you know Bethel as?
3/ What since after Jacob's time, has changed such at Bethel, that there be hostility, unfriendliness, aggressive behaviour resentment for a man/prophet of God, especially someone the calibre of Elisha, huh?

Thank you for sharing your thought. Then, all the, them Bible references were pointers, they themselves, weren't to be focused on, lmso Well, guess what. Fyi, Bethel had abandoned its first love and had turned into a disbelieving lot. You can stick to the low hanging fruit and occurring on the surface superficial exegete of the event.

Acehart:
Those questions are easy and one or two are already answered in the writeup. (Then one more will be answered in another topic I hope to create soon. Watch out!).

Ehen, the low hanging fruit; who doesn’t like love hanging fruits? It saves the elderly ones from breaking a bone. You say, they were killed; I say, they were so maimed that those who saw the extent of their injuries would shiver and piss in their pants, but none dies. You ran to a lot of scriptures but I’ll run to one: “Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

Please consider this: Angels were ambushed by an unwelcoming host of anus-seeking lads and adults at Sodom, and the Lord smite them with blindness; Elisha was ambushed by a host of hostile, weapon wielding, soldiers and the Lord smite them with blindness; Jesus was ambushed by a hostile crowd and He passed through them like the wind and none of the hostiles was struck with a malady or killed; so, what was the magnitude of sin of these lads that death is their final sentence? The Lord doesn’t roll like that, my brother - He doesn’t use a jackhammer to kill a fly.

Our conclusions are what they are but they wouldn’t take away the morale of the story - Children must respect their elders and parents must train a child in the way that they should go.

Peace

MuttleyLaff:
"Then the prophet told him,
“Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.”
And when he had gone, a lion did attack and kill him."
- 1 Kings 20:36

I am biting my knuckles reading your virgin ignorance of not knowing that the morale of the narrative goes beyond "Children must respect their elders and parents must train a child in the way that they should go" sic

If you had stayed focus and humbly answered to those three easy, direct, harmless, innocent, point blank, straightforward, walk in the park non-trivia questions, you wouldn't have gone for the low hanging fruit surface superficial esegesis of the event, and not realising that its was the parents who egged and encouraged the youths to make sure that Elisha should not reach Bethel.

Share what you know about the historicity of Bethel nah. What does Bethel mean? Isn't it ironic, that a moG/prophet of God is prevented from coming to Bethel? Are you aware that Elisha in the real sense wasn't bald, but was skin head shaven in anticipation of doing religious rites at Bethel in line with the yearly feast of God, but was stopped in his tracks coming to Bethel to do this (i.e. House of God, by the way of fyi, is what Bethel means, lmso)

I have shown scripture of God saying He'll send wild animals to kill, mind you not to murder, lmso, or not to any of your ".. use a jackhammer to kill a fly ..." but yeah, just sheer outright good old fashion divine retribution to visit upon them, but your bias and misted up lens, is making you not see the wood clearly enough, for trees, lmso.

That 1 Kings 20:36 verse above, is about an unnamed and unknown prophet, who too activated a wild animal to attack, maim, maul, lmso and KILL, lmso, someone erring on not obeying the voice of God, just as the township of Bethel did, lmso.

Acehart:
Yeah, the young prophet who was killed outside Bethel... I am trying to figure out and find a relationship between the death of a child of God by the Hand of God and the death of a child of Satan by the Hand of God. The former dies because of disobedience; the latter dies by sin. The former’s death restores an old prophet who apostatized; The latter’s death achieved nothing. Oga, the two aren’t the same.

Bethel was no longer the house of God as Israel was no longer the apple of God’s eye. Bethel had become the house of Satan and the young prophet’s testimony against Jeroboam is a testimony to that. There was nothing in Bethel for Elisha except their road; would he pay obeisance at the temple of the golden calf? Would he make the same mistake of the old prophet of God? What has his shaven head got to do with it?

You forget quickly that Elijah was hairy; their mockery -bald head, was an affront to his ministry; they simply said he wasn’t a prophet (like his predecessor) and the bear attack was a confirmation that he was.

The only house of God was Jerusalem; and all prayer was to be directed there.

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://media./images/bc0e876491e370e2af0b5ce46252e77b/tenor.gif[/img]

I see you gradually are seeing the matter in a better perspective now, lmso. Bethel had degenerated. Now what Elisha did was what Apostle Paul did, when he shaved his head to do the Nazarite vow. Elisha actually was going to Shiloh, north of Bethel. He had to go through Bethel, but the evil in people of Bethel couldn't stomach the sight of a moG, talkless the physical presence of a prophet of God in town, to see first hand, how bad they've gone, so they sent the youths out as decoy to shoo him off and way. The spiritually inexperienced youth mistook his shaven head for being bald

Well, I am about going to have my bath, and grab a quick bite, then out I go again. Enjoy your low hanging fruits, lmso. Stay focus, lmso

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://media./images/bc0e876491e370e2af0b5ce46252e77b/tenor.gif[/img]

I see you gradually are seeing the matter in a better perspective now, lmso. Bethel had degenerated. Now what Elisha did was what Apostle Paul did, when he shaved his head to do the Nazarite vow. Elisha actually was going to Shiloh, north of Bethel. He had to go through Bethel, but the evil in people of Bethel couldn't stomach the sight of a moG, talkless the physical presence of a prophet of God in town, to see first hand, how bad they've gone, so they sent the youths out as decoy to shoo him off and way. The spiritually inexperienced youth mistook his shaven head for being bald

Well, I am about going to have my bath, and grab a quick bite, then out I go again. Enjoy your low hanging fruits, lmso. Stay focus, lmso

Acehart:
quoted MuttleyLaff "focus" comment

Acehart:
Shey you know that you do a lot of eisegesis when you do your expositions? New babes would suffer in your hands o. For someone who thumps his chest as a context-centric person, it’s a surprise you are often eisegetical.

Anyway, I would like to see you do a writeup; I’ll be cheering for you.

Jeremiah 7:12,14 - "But go now to My place which was in Shiloh, where I made My name dwell at the first, and see what I did to it because of the wickedness of My people Israel... therefore, I will do to the house which is called by My name, in which you trust, and to the place which I gave you and your fathers, as I did to Shiloh.“

MuttleyLaff:
I've just noticed these your bob the builder alluring comments.

Please give me a numbered list of all my eisegesis and let's both together examine each of them on your list, to find out if they all cant be bible fact checked to be kosher, lmso.