The
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And your point?

Th

Becomrich,what exactly are u driving at here?
Do u mean dat those people have words relating to yoruba despite d fact dat dey are not YORUBA?
If d above is wot u meant,den,ur inclusion of ILAJE is wrong because d ILAJE people are YORUBA.

A lot of the words listed are Isoko and Urhobo words as well. So? lol

Becomerich, go and sit down! Itsekiri is an older language than Yoruba, in case you don't know. Like I told another illiterate expansionist, its like the US claiming England is American.

Abeg, keep my peeps out of your hairbrained schemes.

Beaf:

Becomerich, go and sit down! Itsekiri is an older language than Yoruba, in case you don't know.

Older language than Standard Yoruba, which was developed in the 1850s and borrowed from various dialects? Yes, Itsekiri is older than that. As is Ekiti, Owo, Offa, Ijebu, Ibadan and all the local Yoruba dialects.

I would like to point out, btw, that Ekiti dialect is more challenging for say an Ijebu man to understand than Itsekiri is.

its like the US claiming England is American.

No, it is not, for the reasons stated above. Nobody is claiming that the Itsekiri are Yoruba. They were a mix of various groups, and speak a language that is very similar to Yoruba (it is even classified as Yoruboid by linguists.)

Time and being in close proximity has probably brought us closer together. But that is true of many peoples in Nigeria. My own Ekiti were constantly raided by the Ibadan and went to war with them in the late 1800s. . . but today we seek each other as one.

Unity is a good thing, not evil 

No clue why you are crying "expansionism."

Finally, let's here what Professor JOS Ayomike has to say about his people:

Now, we may first try to describe the Itsekiri peopl e whose kingdom is Warri. As already pointed out, the Dutch map of 1705 referred to above, marks their homeland as Awyri which over time had variously been spelt Iwere, Ouere, Oere, Warree, Wari. and now Warri. The Edo and the Yoruba call them Iwere. The people who constitute the Itsekiri tribe have diverse origins: early settlers from Ijebu, some from Igala and Aboh came to settle in various communities such as Omadino, Ureju, Ugborodo , Inroin, etc at various times out of human memory . Then a party from the Benin Royal family about the end of the 15th century set up a monarchy which constituted these erstwhile autonomous mini-communities into a nationality which it is today.

Prof. P. C Lloyd says that "in the English literature they are known as Warri or Jekri, though in the 19th century they were often referred to as Benin since contacts with them were first made on the banks of the Benin River". Here was a Kingdom founded by the royal party from Benin, but by the early sixteenth century through th e seventeenth, it had done so much overseas trade to match or exceed that of the mother - kingdom; the reason being its advantageous position within the empire on the rim of the Atlantic. The Itsekiri speak a Yoruba dialect whose vocabulary has been widened by the infusion of a large number of Portuguese, Bini and English words.

http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub123.htm

^
Itsekiri is a mixture of proto-Yoruba (which is not Yoruba, but its ancestor) and Igala. It is a language that is far closer to Igala than Yoruba; more than that, the Igala also claim to to be the ancestors of the Yoruba (this is seemingly supported by anthropology).

So, if anything, the Itsekiri are progenitor of the Yoruba, which makes any expansionist claims absolutely ridiculous.

. . .By the way, your quote from Ayomike is miles out of context and has nothing to do with the current argument.

Beaf:

^
Itsekiri is a mixture of proto-Yoruba and Igala.

What on earth is proto-Yoruba? Do you mean Yoruba from the 1400s, 1500s? Or the language that the various Yoruba dialects descended from?

In any case, as Ayomike says, it seems to be a Yoruba dialect.

It is a language that is far closer to Igala than Yoruba;

Professor Ayomike, an Itsekiri man calls it a Yoruba dialect, yet you say it is closer to Igala? 

What linguistic evidence do you have to contradict Ayomike?

BTW, in case you are not aware. . . linguists classify Yoruba, Itsekiri, and Igala all under the Yoruboid family of languages.

more than that, the Igala also claim to to be the ancestors of the Yoruba (this is seemingly supported by anthropology).

That doesn't make any sense. How can one ethnic group be the ancestor of another? Certainly, we have a very close common ancestor. And both Yoruba and Igala are descended from that same ancestor yes. But that one child of that ancestor moved West and the other stayed doesn't mean the guy who left is descended from his cousin who stayed.

Your statement is like someone who understands evolution to mean man is descended from monkeys (which is wrong), rather than both having a common ancestor.

So, if anything, the Itsekiri are progenitor of the Yoruba,

Lol, wrong.

But let me play along with your game.

Yes, Yoruba, Itsekiri and Igala are all Igala.

Long live Greater Igalaland!

which makes any expansionist claims absolutely ridiculous.

Or not 

. . .By the way, your quote from Ayomike is miles out of context and has nothing to do with the current argument.

It was VERY relevant, as I showed above.

^
What you need is a little reading, cos you are yarning opata. To claim proto-yoruba is somehow the same as yoruba is really ignorant, like I said, it is as ridiculous as Americans claiming the UK comes from them, because they all speak English.

As for your dance about Ayomike being Itsekiri, how do you know I am not? And when I say proto-Yoruba, I am not talking about 1400s, 1500s; you really have to read up to continue what is an intellectual argument by every definition. Google "proto-Yoruba" as a first step, then return, cos right now, your replies aren't even nearly informed (no offense).

^-- Ah, so the point is that I wanted you to define the terminology you are using (proto-Yoruba, in this case). I didn't want to start attacking a strawman. . . so wanted to be very clear.

Regarding American/UK. . . there were no claims made, simply questions asked.

Beaf:

As for your dance about Ayomike being Itsekiri, how do you know I am not?

You've already identified yourself as Urhobo, not Itsekiri. Who knows, it is certainly possible that you know more about Itsekiri and their origins than Prof Ayomike (an actual Itsekiri who appears to have written a book about his people), but I doubt it.

Especially given that you are saying things like, " if anything, the Itsekiri are progenitor of the Yoruba", lol 

@Beaf
I have recently become worried about your willingness to attack Yoruba people, history and culture after GEJ oversteped his bounds by calling SW governors radicals -and was adequately replied. The fact is nobody put the words in his mouth, except perhaps his godfather OBJ, who cannot speak more than a couple of sentences before generating a controversy. GEJ and his supporters ought to know that OBJ has no real following in the SW. His military background and pseudo-uniter of Nigeria role are his main backbones. Personally, I do not begrudge the man as he has done important things on Nigeria's behalf, but he did most of it by selling out his region. GEJ is not an OBJ type person, and for him to allow himself to be led that way for the sake of power is really unbecoming. In one sentence GEJ is praising Awolowo's vision, and then in the other he is calling those who seek to project his vision in a visionless system "radicals" in whose hands the SW must not be left. Nobody in the SW is scared to confront OBJ, talkless of GEJ.

You say Itsekiri is older than Yoruba, but is a mixture of proto-Yoruba (which is not Yoruba) and Igala. Then you say Itsekiri is closer to Igala. However, the Igala's closest relatives are the Yoruba and by extension the Itsekiris. As his listerners said to Paul 1000s of years ago, "Eko ako ju n ba e lo ri je" - too much learning is tying you up in a knot.

Look, all you are saying is that we were the same people with a long history together - the rest is arrant nonsense. Interestingly, you have joined people making incredible assumptions and major alterations to "re-write ancient history by the internet".

I am scared of what politics can do to otherwise rational minds!!!

Beaf:

^
Itsekiri is a mixture of proto-Yoruba (which is not Yoruba, but its ancestor) and Igala. It is a language that is far closer to Igala than Yoruba; more than that, the Igala also claim to to be the ancestors of the Yoruba (this is seemingly supported by anthropology).

So, if anything, the Itsekiri are progenitor of the Yoruba, which makes any expansionist claims absolutely ridiculous.

. . .By the way, your quote from Ayomike is miles out of context and has nothing to do with the current argument.

koruji:

@Beaf
I have recently become worried about your willingness to attack Yoruba people, history and culture after GEJ oversteped his bounds by calling SW governors radicals -and was adequately replied. The fact is nobody put the words in his mouth, except perhaps his godfather OBJ, who cannot speak more than a couple of sentences before generating a controversy. GEJ and his supporters ought to know that OBJ has no real following in the SW. His military background and pseudo-uniter of Nigeria role are his main backbones. Personally, I do not begrudge the man as he has done important things on Nigeria's behalf, but he did most of it by selling out his region. GEJ is not an OBJ type person, and for him to allow himself to be led that way for the sake of power is really unbecoming. In one sentence GEJ is praising Awolowo's vision, and then in the other he is calling those who seek to project his vision in a visionless system "radicals" in whose hands the SW must not be left. Nobody in the SW is scared to confront OBJ, talkless of GEJ.

You say Itsekiri is older than Yoruba, but is a mixture of proto-Yoruba (which is not Yoruba) and Igala. Then you say Itsekiri is closer to Igala. However, the Igala's closest relatives are the Yoruba and by extension the Itsekiris. As his listerners said to Paul 1000s of years ago, "Eko ako ju n ba e lo ri je" - too much learning is tying you up in a knot.

Look, all you are saying is that we were the same people with a long history together - the rest is arrant nonsense. Interestingly, you have joined people making incredible assumptions and major alterations to "re-write ancient history by the internet".

I am scared of what politics can do to otherwise rational minds!!!

gbammm

the guy is an eediot

he does not even understand what he is saying

jason proved him wrong

other links shows itsekiri leader are saying the opposite to what beaf is saying

and yet he is not itsekiri

eku_bear:

^-- Ah, so the point is that I wanted you to define the terminology you are using (proto-Yoruba, in this case). I didn't want to start attacking a strawman. . . so wanted to be very clear.

Regarding American/UK. . . there were no claims made, simply questions asked.
You've already identified yourself as Urhobo, not Itsekiri. Who knows, it is certainly possible that you know more about Itsekiri and their origins than Prof Ayomike (an actual Itsekiri who appears to have written a book about his people), but I doubt it.

Especially given that you are saying things like, " if anything, the Itsekiri are progenitor of the Yoruba", lol

Dude, Latin is to English as proto-Yoruba is to Igala, Itsekiri and Yoruba.
I am Isoko/Urhobo with a huge dose of Itsekiri, both sides are Itsekiri. So, stop right there and keep your expansionist thoughts in check.

koruji:

@Beaf
I have recently become worried about your willingness to attack Yoruba people, history and culture after GEJ oversteped his bounds by calling SW governors radicals -and was adequately replied. The fact is nobody put the words in his mouth, except perhaps his godfather OBJ, who cannot speak more than a couple of sentences before generating a controversy. GEJ and his supporters ought to know that OBJ has no real following in the SW. His military background and pseudo-uniter of Nigeria role are his main backbones. Personally, I do not begrudge the man as he has done important things on Nigeria's behalf, but he did most of it by selling out his region. GEJ is not an OBJ type person, and for him to allow himself to be led that way for the sake of power is really unbecoming. In one sentence GEJ is praising Awolowo's vision, and then in the other he is calling those who seek to project his vision in a visionless system "radicals" in whose hands the SW must not be left. Nobody in the SW is scared to confront OBJ, talkless of GEJ.

You say Itsekiri is older than Yoruba, but is a mixture of proto-Yoruba (which is not Yoruba) and Igala. Then you say Itsekiri is closer to Igala. However, the Igala's closest relatives are the Yoruba and by extension the Itsekiris. As his listerners said to Paul 1000s of years ago, "Eko ako ju n ba e lo ri je" - too much learning is tying you up in a knot.

Look, all you are saying is that we were the same people with a long history together - the rest is arrant nonsense. Interestingly, you have joined people making incredible assumptions and major alterations to "re-write ancient history by the internet".

I am scared of what politics can do to otherwise rational minds!!!

Stop being silly. How can telling you the truth be an attack on Yoruba? Is that meant to be some form of blackmail?
Itsekiri is older than Yoruba. Period, if you don't like the plain truth, then tough!

^^Well said Koruji.

It's about time we take the "Yoruba expansionist agenda"(whatever that means) to Urhoboland and annex that piece once and for all. Itsekiris will be safe and happy, and Beaf will be made whole again with his kin in Odualand

Time to form the Greater Yoruboid-Tapa-Igala Empire

Beaf:

Dude, Latin is to English as proto-Yoruba is to Igala, Itsekiri and Yoruba.
I am Isoko/Urhobo with a huge dose of Itsekiri, both sides are Itsekiri. So, stop right there and keep your expansionist thoughts in check.

what expamsionist thoughts

there are links brought out by me and dapo to prove otherwise

jason a proper itsekiri man proved otherwise

infact itsekrir leaders join afenfere a pro-yoruba group that looks after only yoruba groups

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-312145.0.html

stop agruing blindly and face the reality here YOU ARE NOT ITSEKIRI NOR YORUBA SO YOU CAN NOT TALK OR KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR HISTORY OR RELATIONSHIP]

chikena haba

Beaf:

Dude, Latin is to English as proto-Yoruba is to Igala, Itsekiri and Yoruba.

English? Wtf English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language (like Spanish, French, and Italian.)

I am Isoko/Urhobo with a huge dose of Itsekiri, both sides are Itsekiri. So, stop right there and keep your expansionist thoughts in check.

You are not Itsekiri, though. More importantly, you don't know their history and origin better than Prof Ayomike. Or are you claiming otherwise?

There is no point discussing further with Beaf. He has an agenda, and will say anything to push it. Regardless of how many others (including actual Itsekiri like Professor Ayomike) contradict it.

[flash=200,200]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvRYP6nY0Sg[/flash]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvRYP6nY0Sg

this is an itsekiri talking about yoruba and itskiri being her mothers language

here is even a link of an igbo woman speaking singing in yoruba even better than dapo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYN5mD-ufDs

Kilode?!:

^^Well said Koruji.

It's about time we take the "Yoruba expansionist agenda"(whatever that means) to Urhoboland and annex that piece once and for all. Itsekiris will be safe and happy, and Beaf will be made whole again with his kin in Odualand

Time to form the Greater Yoruboid-Tapa-Igala Empire

Like that wasn't your agenda all the while.
Unfortunately, una jam rock. No outsider is going to bring Nigeria's bigotted politics into Delta state. We are not crude people.

Beaf:

Like that wasn't your agenda all the while.
Unfortunately, una jam rock. No outsider is going to bring Nigeria's bigotted politics into Delta state. We are not crude people.

this is itsekiri


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwQM0S3vBVc

tell if they claim yoruba, they have no right

itsekiri join afenefere last year,,, ,., thus part of yoruba just like the ilaja, awori, ebga, ekiti etc

Beaf:

Like that wasn't your agenda all the while.
Unfortunately, una jam rock. No outsider is going to bring Nigeria's bigotted politics into Delta state. We are not crude people.

eyemi = my life

ayemi = my life

Alj Uche:

[flash=200,200]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvRYP6nY0Sg[/flash]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvRYP6nY0Sg

this is an itsekiri talking about yoruba and itskiri being her mothers language

view this link beaf

happy sunday brother

Beaf:

Like that wasn't your agenda all the while.
Unfortunately, una jam rock. No outsider is going to bring Nigeria's bigotted politics into Delta state. We are not crude people.

See, this is the problem I have with you. You simply are not an honest person.

For you, the end justifies the means. For you, you don't want Itsekiri people to identify more with Yoruba than with Delta, because you think it threatens your state. I guess due to the Olu of Warri thing and the damage that caused, you don't want them to identify with Yoruba. . . despite there being no real chance of that ever happening again.

So you are willing to distort history, lie about peoples you know absolutely nothing about. Even going so far as to call Yoruba descendants of Itsekiri  

Anyway, I understand your motivation. Just a bit surprised at how for you, the truth is irrelevant. . . pseudo-science, mummery, sham and dishonesty are acceptable if achieves your objectives.

Beaf:

Like that wasn't your agenda all the while.
Unfortunately, una jam rock. No outsider is going to bring Nigeria's bigotted politics into Delta state. We are not crude people.

Leave that side! Una chop winch!?  

We already have The Itshekiris (or they have us, depends on how you see it) time to Annex Isoko, Urhobo and other small small groups in "Delta"

@ the girl in that video has an Osun Osogbo accent, God bless our common progenitors.

By the time we are done with Beaf, he will be speaking with a distinct Ijebu lilt and craving Amala and Gbegiri Soup. . .

eku_bear:

See, this is the problem I have with you. You simply are not an honest person.

For you, the end justifies the means. For you, you don't want Itsekiri people to identify more with Yoruba than with Delta, because you think it threatens your state. I guess due to the Olu of Warri thing and the damage that caused, you don't want them to identify with Yoruba. . . despite there being no real chance of that ever happening again.

So you are willing to distort history, lie about peoples you know absolutely nothing about. Even going so far as to call Yoruba descendants of Itsekiri  

Anyway, I understand your motivation. Just a bit surprised at how for you, the truth is irrelevant. . . pseudo-science, mummery, sham and dishonesty are acceptable if achieves your objectives.

you dey mind am


so long itskiris are nigerians and not biafra nigerians like beaf and others always threatening secession, i am cool

so long as they are nigerians whether yoruba or hausa or igbo(not the biafran ones), we real nigerians are ready to fight for their land in delta state and balysea  gbamm

Kilode?!:

Leave that side! Una chop winch!?  

We already have The Itshekiris (or they have us, depends on how you see it) time to Annex Isoko, Urhobo and other small small groups in "Delta"

@ the girl in that video has an Osun Osogbo accent, God bless our common progenitors.

By the time we are done with Beaf, he will be speaking with a distinct Ijebu lilt and craving Amala and Gbegiri Soup. . .

which video is that the first or second one

oyo itsekiri = joy

ayo yoruba = joy

eku_bear:

See, this is the problem I have with you. You simply are not an honest person.

For you, the end justifies the means. For you, you don't want Itsekiri people to identify more with Yoruba than with Delta, because you think it threatens your state. I guess due to the Olu of Warri thing and the damage that caused, you don't want them to identify with Yoruba. . . despite there being no real chance of that ever happening again.

So you are willing to distort history, lie about peoples you know absolutely nothing about. Even going so far as to call Yoruba descendants of Itsekiri  

Anyway, I understand your motivation. Just a bit surprised at how for you, the truth is irrelevant. . . pseudo-science, mummery, sham and dishonesty are acceptable if achieves your objectives.

I pity you and your bigotry, it makes you talk rubbish, whereas there is an unused brain in you. Yes, your bigotry is a threat to our comparatively evolved politics and we don't need crude, expansionist types coming to conjure "history."
We're doing just fine thank you, keep the Nigerian decease out of Delta state, when you come in, leave your crude baggage at the door.

Kilode?!:

Leave that side! Una chop winch!?

We already have The Itshekiris (or they have us, depends on how you see it) time to Annex Isoko, Urhobo and other small small groups in "Delta"

@ the girl in that video has an Osun Osogbo accent, God bless our common progenitors.

By the time we are done with Beaf, he will be speaking with a distinct Ijebu lilt and craving Amala and Gbegiri Soup. . .

Lol! You wan invoke spirit?!! Na we go capture all of una! Small, but mighty!
I've eyeing some Yoruba babes with big big yanshes, Dupe and Bimbo. I am ready to lead the boys to bring them back as my tropies.

Alj Uche:

this is itsekiri


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwQM0S3vBVc

Such a nice video and song! Itsekiri are definitely Yoruba, lol. Some words I didn't understand, but the other 90% was fine.

God bless 'em.

Hrm, no wonder my uncle enjoys living in Warri so much.

Very interesting, I'll have to buy this Professor Ayomike's book and read more about them.

I'm starting to wonder now about Igala. . . how much of that language I'll immediately understand. Very interesting stuff.

Beaf:

Lol! You wan invoke spirit?!! Na we go capture all of una! Small, but mighty!
I've eyeing some Yoruba babes with big big yanshes, Dupe and Bimbo. I am ready to lead the boys to bring them back as my tropies. 

See this Urhobo boy o!! You wan carry Load? Dupe don get Magun for body, bimbo na like time bomb, she go take Obe Isapa quench you

I saw one Oviereya the other day, she dey eye this Yoruba boy, 1 2 3 quick tapping! Correct Urhobo gal.

All those Asaroyoma, Ejiroghene and Emetemedia's wey una dey hide for yonder don enter wahala, correct war "bootys"

Eff oil blocks!!!  give me correct Delta-Urhobo gals anyday and I might just call my warriors back, Else, we take them all!

Daaannm, Urhobo delta gals get sexy names sha!! Must be their Yoruboid connection