It is said that satan (lucifer) disobeyed God and was thrown down to earth. What made him do that? For example, if am being tempted now, it is satna and his demons that tempt me to disobey God. Other times it is just my human nature? So what spirit made satan question God? Or did it just happen out of nowhere?

Good question. And taking into consideration that this "disobedience/intransigence" happened in a place in which God is supposed to have absolute control of everything and everyone in it, it beggars the question. HOW IN HEAVEN, DID LUCIFER MANAGED TO GET CORRUPTED IN A PLACE LIKE HEAVEN, WHERE THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ZERO CHANCE OF CORRUPTION? Afterall, heaven is a perfect and sinless place, right? Or so we are told by all those clueless clergymen.

Christian and other religious scholars are forever struggling to deal this question with answers of any substance. The fact that Lucifer, as a made in heaven archangel, is not supposed to have been corrupted in a place like heaven to begin with, seems to escape the mind of the average religious person, totally.

I am a christian and I need answers lest I lose my faith.

My guy, you will not get an answer. Guaranteed. So, say bye bye to ya faith. It is an infantile faith, anyway. So, it is good riddance to childish rubbish.

VPersiee:

I am a christian and I need answers lest I lose my faith.

if you want to lose your faith, then go ahead.

I said it! No concrete answer will be forthcoming.

tpiah!:

if you want to lose your faith, then go ahead.

so who is obligated to give an answer?

certainly not me.

It was the devil who tempted Satan to disobey God.

^^ @ mantraa

How does that make sense?

@ all christians on the forum

Why is no answer forthcoming?

I just have to laugh at this thread

@OP
How dare you question God?? Damn! you are cursed.

VPersiee:

^^ @ mantraa

How does that make sense?

@ all christians on the forum

Why is no answer forthcoming?

I thought you claimed to be one just now.
If a non-essential like this is why you want to "lose your faith" then friend I'm afraid you never had any faith to lose in the first place.

There is a certain verse in the bible that says it as it is. It says Lucifer, tempted by no-one, sinned.
His came from shear pride, which is why pride is the most dangerous of sins, as just when you think you're invincible, pride is knocking at the door. It is the one thing established men of God must constantly fight against through humility. In the ranks of hell, pride is like a high-class, political-grade assassin who's the only "James Bond" capable of going against the "big boys" in the kingdom of God.

Understand very clearly that it is not always a result of temptation that someone sins.
Anyone can at anytime just choose to do something bad, not because it benefits them or that they were tempted to, but simply because they wanted to do it.
Satan is no different than a lot of people on this earth. It is we however, that Jesus chose to redeem and save from that most wretched eternal afterlife prison, and for that we should be eternally gratefully.

So if you must "lose your faith" because you really just want an excuse to go back to sin and dive into the "loving" arms of Satan, my dear, that is your choice to make.

VPersiee:

It is said that satan (lucifer) disobeyed God and was thrown down to earth. What made him do that? For example, if am being tempted now, it is satna and his demons that tempt me to disobey God. Other times it is just my human nature? So what spirit made satan question God? Or did it just happen out of nowhere?

James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.

Mt 4:1 "Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
 Temptation can come either by the evil one, or by our own selves.

In regards to circumstances around the fall of satan, check out this link - http://www.learnthebible.org/satans-rebellion-and-fall.html
Hope that helps. Cheers.

@Its a folktale what did you expect? the funny flaws would also stick out. Consequentially if sin pops up in heaven, then God is not in control of his creation and his backyard!

^^ God is not interested in creating robots.

@JeSoul; The above John verse does not make any sense. Considering that it says that God does not tempt after it stated God cant be tempted begging the question, altogether. The question is about satan why he became what he came 'disobedient'. The verse addressed something else. The verse you followed it with even compounded the confusion that the first one presented by jumping on the issue of Jesus who is part of the trinity while the Spirit, another part of the same trinity led Jesus to the hand of what tempted him, satan.

If you revisit john, the first verse, it says one is tempted or led by ones evil desire and lust/enticed. if this is true, what led Jesus, then, especially in the light that God cant be tempted, even He does not tempt, while Jesus is the very same God on earth?

I read the piece that you directed in your above website. the material does not address anything concrete, except that it left any reader, especially a one looking for clarity hanging. Typically, most books of religion[s] do not answer the more important question. hence they say you have to have blind faith, as if knowledge is abomination.

@OP; if you are serious about knowing the truth about who satan was before he became 'devlish/satanic', the acts that made him so, read the Quran. if you want a faith that has good and sound clear answers, Islam is it.


You only have to goggle who Iblis is. Who Shaytan is. What was he made of. Surah Baqarah, Araf, Kahf are three chapters among others to guide you. I can answer what everyone have been waffling and trying to avoid, including the no answer provided by Jesoul. Its better to do your own research of the Quran and come out with personal knowledge.

Sweetnecta:

@JeSoul; The above John verse does not make any sense. Considering that it says that God does not tempt after it stated God cant be tempted begging the question, altogether. The question is about satan why he became what he came 'disobedient'. The verse addressed something else. The verse you followed it with even compounded the confusion that the first one presented by jumping on the issue of Jesus who is part of the trinity while the Spirit, another part of the same trinity led Jesus to the hand of what tempted him, satan.

If you revisit john, the first verse, it says one is tempted or led by ones evil desire and lust/enticed. if this is true, what led Jesus, then, especially in the light that God cant be tempted, even He does not tempt, while Jesus is the very same God on earth?

I read the piece that you directed in your above website. the material does not address anything concrete, except that it left any reader, especially a one looking for clarity hanging. Typically, most books of religion[s] do not answer the more important question. hence they say you have to have blind faith, as if knowledge is abomination.

  Necta,
broda, see how you craftily made ^ about the biggest gripe btw christians & muslims the Trinity/Jesus' divinity. The OP is a christian so I have used the bible to answer him.

^^^^^ I wonda if that was accepted as ansa, wince the like of jenwitemi, kay17 are laffing at non-answers from christians. you be christian, right? you posted an answer. the passe are not impressed by your effort. did i bring trinity to it on my own or that the biblical verses brought it to the fore by sayin the spirit led jesus, while God is not the Tempter, and He is never tempted? either the concept brings about trinity or it destroys trinity. your choice.

if i post quranic verses; i will give you the name of the devil before he became satan.
i will give you what iblis specie is.
i will give you what he is made from.
you will know that satan is neither a man specie nor an angel specie.

i will give you what man is made from.
i will give you what angel is made from.

i will give about when God told the angels and iblis in their mist that mankind is about to be created.
i will let you know that the creation of man, and the honoring place he is put, is the reason satan disobeyed Allah, arrogantly, while the angels submitted willingly and humbly. there is no falling angel.

you will also learn that where Adam was created along with his mate was not on earth, but above the earth, heaven.
then they were told to enter paradise with a warning not approach a tree. this was after satan had disobeyed God.

the test of mankind was just about to begin, since there is a restriction on them now.
you will also learn how satan made man wrong him/herself by failing in the instruction.

this failing is what got our parents out of paradise to the earth. were they forgiven? yes. Allah is Merciful, often Forgiving and accepts sincere repentance.

why is satan devlish? he refused to repent. swore to seduce the children of Adam [not Adam or Eve, but their progeny] away from the right path of worship and obedience.
no sooner he said it, since he already received allowance to remain alive until the last man on earth dies, than he seduced the first sin on earth of a son of Adam and Eve killing another.

This comprehensive story, you cant find in any other book, gut the Quran. you nrrd to read it, anti.

VPersiee:


It is said that satan (lucifer) disobeyed God and was thrown down to earth. What made him do that?

For example, if am being tempted now, it is satna and his demons that tempt me to disobey God. Other times it is just my human nature?

So what spirit made satan question God? Or did it just happen out of nowhere?

Jenwitemi:


Good question.

And taking into consideration that this "disobedience/intransigence" happened in a place in which God is supposed to have absolute control of everything and everyone in it, it beggars the question.

HOW IN HEAVEN, DID LUCIFER MANAGED TO GET CORRUPTED IN A PLACE LIKE HEAVEN, WHERE THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ZERO CHANCE OF CORRUPTION?

Afterall, heaven is a perfect and sinless place, right? Or so we are told by all those clueless clergymen.

Christian and other religious scholars are forever struggling to deal this question with answers of any substance.

The fact that Lucifer, as a made in heaven archangel, is not supposed to have been corrupted in a place like heaven to begin with, seems to escape the mind of the average religious person, totally.

@Jenwitemi

How about because God allowed LUCIFER TO GET CORRUPTED "IN A PLACE LIKE HEAVEN"

You think heaven is a big deal to GOD especially when He's planned to have a new heaven . . .

OK. You tell us. How on earth did God harden Pharaoh's heart

Get a grip . . .

Just because my neighbourhood is crime free or crime less doesnt mean crime cant be committed there

Ilu ti o sofi, ko si ese  - Flout a law, then a sin crime is committed

@VPersiee

Treason.

What led satan to it was pride, lust (i.e. an unrighteously unchecked misguided, uncontrolled desire) and a flagrant disregard of GOD

Satan succumbed to an unchecked overwhelming desire (i.e. temptation) to upstage and usurp GOD

@Sweetnecta

You are getting caught up and tangled in the metaphors and allegories 

2buff:

^^ God is not interested in creating robots.

Even in heaven? Then why would he bother sending others to hell? Maybe if they actually saw him and his heaven, they might repent.

It behooves me that in the year 2011 grown adults are still leveraging Arabian night tales and silly Jewish/early Christian mythology to explain the origins of man, our existence and seriously debating non entities such as angels, jinns, devils, satan and the likes. Till date, there is absolutely no proof of these claims that these religions have put forth. It's been 2,000 years Christians and Jesus hasn't and isn't coming back. Muslims, sorry Mohammed or the great Mahdi won't be returning any day neither nor is ther a dajjal or any such rubbish.

How about this: There is no such thing as Satan/Shaytan, there may or may not be creator of the universe but I am 99.99% sure its not the god of the torah, bible or koran. When I reference god/goddess its more in a deist or pantheist manner. These stories are akin to mermaids, unicorns, the greek pantheon, African Traditional myths etc, etc.

Take accountability for your actions, most of us do good deeds and sometimes we do bad deeds. Human morality is innate in most human beings and cultures and does not come from those religions that is why we peruse these so called holy books and cherry pick verses that are in line with modern day morality and shun those that are inhumane.  When last did you hear your clergy/imam condoning slavery? Neither the Bible, Torah or Koran explicity condemned slavery thats a modern idea.

I mean the god of the middle eastern abrahamic faiths condoned slavery, genocide, restricts religious freedom, was patriarchal and even ordered a man to kill his own son. I'm not sure how people of this day and age can adhere to these religions. Nigerians, it's 2011 my people, you dont use the technology, healthcare, morality of the bronze age primitive barbarians of the middle east so please why do you still think you need his religion and myths!!! No wonder the rest of the world continues to leave us behind when we are preoccupy our enitire lives with nonsense, refuse to hold our leaders and each other accountable and waiting for the 2nd coming of who knows what. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

2buff:

I thought you claimed to be one just now.
If a non-essential like this is why you want to "lose your faith" then friend I'm afraid you never had any faith to lose in the first place.

There is a certain verse in the bible that says it as it is. It says Lucifer, tempted by no-one, sinned.
His came from shear pride, which is why pride is the most dangerous of sins, as just when you think you're invincible, pride is knocking at the door. It is the one thing established men of God must constantly fight against through humility. In the ranks of hell, pride is like a high-class, political-grade assassin who's the only "James Bond" capable of going against the "big boys" in the kingdom of God.

Understand very clearly that it is not always a result of temptation that someone sins.
Anyone can at anytime just choose to do something bad, not because it benefits them or that they were tempted to, but simply because they wanted to do it.
Satan is no different than a lot of people on this earth. It is we however, that Jesus chose to redeem and save from that most wretched eternal afterlife prison, and for that we should be eternally gratefully.

So if you must "lose your faith" because you really just want an excuse to go back to sin and dive into the "loving" arms of Satan, my dear, that is your choice to make.

I don't see how your examples apply because this is heaven that we're talking about. This is the same heaven that mass murderers who on death row converted to Christianity would be going to. Don't you think that these people would probably do worse than Satan himself if they are allowed into heaven?

thehomer:

Even in heaven? Then why would he bother sending others to hell? Maybe if they actually saw him and his heaven, they might repent.

Look at it this way. . .

You have 2 puppies. One is robotic/mechanical and only programed to love you. The other is a real-live breathing dog who chooses to love you.
Which love would you prefer? The mechanical programmed dog that never really had a choice? (slavery) or the free-minded dog who chooses to love you on it's own?



I was going to use a real vs robotic woman before for this example. . . but then you never know a man's mindset these days  

thehomer:

I don't see how your examples apply because this is heaven that we're talking about. This is the same heaven that mass murderers who on death row converted to Christianity would be going to. Don't you think that these people would probably do worse than Satan himself if they are allowed into heaven?

<jokes>
Sounds like the next potential divine drama for another age . . . Not just this one so that's not my concern.
That would make some fine nollywood in heaven. 

My primary interest is to help get people saved from hell and make it to heaven, that task alone is ginormous, for without it, then there would be no cast members for the next potential Divine Drama part 2. 

</jokes>

Look jokes, aside, I just trust God.
Secondly, I don't believe God was oblivious to the fact that Lucifer was planning all that. He knew, as He knows all things, but what transpired had to so that He could make everyone in heaven understand the consequences of Sin and what terrible things it could cause. This understanding further strengthens the resolve of every angel and human in heaven to despise sin even more (plus heaven's own natural temptation free environment), further removing the need for a Divine Drama Part 2. When all is considered, God's wisdom rules best.

In fact, go to youtube and watch the full movie of this trailer:
[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47wXWcdRlOw[/flash]
It's a very illustrious realization of that age.

@e36991; « #17 on: Today at 07:51:56 PM »


[Quote]Quote from: VPersiee on Today at 03:14:12 AM

It is said that satan (lucifer) disobeyed God and was thrown down to earth. What made him do that?

For example, if am being tempted now, it is satna and his demons that tempt me to disobey God. Other times it is just my human nature?

So what spirit made satan question God? Or did it just happen out of nowhere?


Quote from: Jenwitemi on Today at 01:20:11 PM

Good question.

And taking into consideration that this "disobedience/intransigence" happened in a place in which God is supposed to have absolute control of everything and everyone in it, it beggars the question.

HOW IN HEAVEN, DID LUCIFER MANAGED TO GET CORRUPTED IN A PLACE LIKE HEAVEN, WHERE THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ZERO CHANCE OF CORRUPTION?

Afterall, heaven is a perfect and sinless place, right? Or so we are told by all those clueless clergymen.

Christian and other religious scholars are forever struggling to deal this question with answers of any substance.

The fact that Lucifer, as a made in heaven archangel, is not supposed to have been corrupted in a place like heaven to begin with, seems to escape the mind of the average religious person, totally.


@Jenwitemi

How about because God allowed LUCIFER TO GET CORRUPTED "IN A PLACE LIKE HEAVEN"

You think heaven is a big deal to GOD especially when He's planned to have a new heaven . . .

OK. You tell us. How on earth did God harden Pharaoh's heart

Get a grip . . .

Just because my neighbourhood is crime free or crime less doesnt mean crime cant be committed there

Ilu ti o sofi, ko si ese - Flout a law, then a sin crime is committed

@VPersiee

Treason.

What led satan to it was pride, lust (i.e. an unrighteously unchecked misguided, uncontrolled desire) and a flagrant disregard of GOD

Satan succumbed to an unchecked overwhelming desire (i.e. temptation) to upstage and usurp GOD

@Sweetnecta

You are getting caught up and tangled in the metaphors and allegories Smiley[/Quote]where is a metaphor or the allegory in what the OP asked or my either of my posts? a person asked a hard question, and you are giving him and or the mocking jenwitemi a 'how about' as your probably reason. i state in fact that the Quran gives direct answers to all i listed. maybe you have your reasons. but your argument, if any, but your answer leads us that you have no assured response.

my post will clear the air. it will help you away from your ifs, maybes, and provide the needed answer[s] for the op.

and e36991 told jenwitemi that 'ilu tio sofi ko se she'.correct what was the ofi that satan 'she' for his 'ese'?

how do we children of Adam continue to take the 'ese' of our parents, when we didnt make the 'ese', while the ofi was not made for us? which tree did you eat from? i didnt eat from any tree. thats a fact. Adam is not responsible for my 'sins' which i may have committed and may commit in the future. why should i be responsible for his sin, which he was already informed about and was already forgiven?

stay in your lane, and learn how to drive properly, first before you think you can criticize the perfect driver's manual.

So let me get this right:

Pride out of nowhere randomly came to satan's heart and made him sin? So evil had existed in space previously but (from the bible historical accounts), on a random day, satan became the first person to randomly fall for the previously existing evil (pride) and this led to the fall of man? And also God knew this will happen, but just decided to let it be so he can throw satan to earth, and then satan will make men sin, and then Jesus will come etc etc. And who created the evil(pride) that was existing before it "infected" satan? Did God do that? Why will God just create evil for no reason? So before satan fell for pride, were other angels also tempted by various evils and just managed to overcome the temptation?

I need answers. This is a precarious time for my faith.

^^ dude, All angels have free will.
It's quite simple.
Devil dude looked in the mirror for centuries adoring his oiled biceps and glistening 12 pack.
Everyone told him what nice biceps, pecs and packs he had in casual conversation.
He finally decided he was hot enough to rule everything and figured he'd give it a shot.

end of story.

^^^^ is the answer to the op? you are joking for real about angel and their free will.


could you give us something michael or gabriel had done out of this 'freewill'.

you must able to produce one. you asked for it, and i will not even take you and your pastor up about mirror and biceps as if its a bathroom or bedroom scene.

VPersiee:


So let me get this right:

Pride out of nowhere randomly came to satan's heart and made him sin?

So evil had existed in space previously

but (from the bible historical accounts), on a random day, satan became the first person to randomly fall for the previously existing evil (pride)

and this led to the fall of man?

And also God knew this will happen, but just decided to let it be so he can throw satan to earth,

and then satan will make men sin, and then Jesus will come etc etc.

And who created the evil(pride) that was existing before it "infected" satan?

Did God do that?

Why will God just create evil for no reason?

So before satan fell for pride, were other angels also tempted by various evils and just managed to overcome the temptation?

I need answers. This is a precarious time for my faith.

2buff:


^^ dude, All angels have free will.

It's quite simple.

Devil dude looked in the mirror for centuries adoring his oiled biceps and glistening 12 pack.

Everyone told him what nice biceps, pecs and packs he had in casual conversation.

He finally decided he was hot enough to rule everything and figured he'd give it a shot.

end of story.  

@VPersiee

What is dangerously about to destablise your faith?

What really is getting your goat . . .

Maybe you need deliverance - no offenise © MrCork  

@2buff

Yeah, that was after the narcissism splashed on to the proverbial brain  

Sweetnecta:

^^^^ is the answer to the op? you are joking for real about angel and their free will.


could you give us something michael or gabriel had done out of this 'freewill'.

you must able to produce one. you asked for it, and i will not even take you and your pastor up about mirror and biceps as if its a bathroom or bedroom scene.

Dude, in an act of free will, 1/3rd of the hosts of heaven chose to side with glistening 12 pack devil guy to attempt to overthrow God.
If that isn't enough evidence of angelic free will for you, then I don't really know what is 

And the bible does say devil dude was good looking before his fall, sooo . . . .

Lol! Didn't i say it that no proper answer will be forthcoming? Now, diversion via preaching has begun.

e36991:

@VPersiee

What is dangerously about to destablise your faith?

What really is getting your goat . . .

Maybe you need deliverance - no offenise © MrCork  

@2buff

Yeah, that was after the narcissism splashed on to the proverbial brain