(was Re: Institutions of Learning)

22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the unclothedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the unclothedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's unclothedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Genesis 9:22-27

And also
6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan. Genesis 10:6

Kazey:
If you read further from there, you will discover that the African continent descended from Ham, the father of Canaan. This is the premise I based my statement that the African continent is cursed. The two other sons of Noah constitutes the present European nations, and you can see the difference yourself.

So well I don't see any link here, and besides ? so since we are cursed? as you said we are. then nothing can be done. Lets just sit down and watch our generation perish and destroy each other. I cant really believe that some people actually believe in such things. well I rest my case. no futher comments.

Diakim,

If one reads that passage carefully, it appears that not all of Ham's descendants were cursed. Only the Canaanites, who were the subject of a prolonged campaign ('ethnic cleansing' in today's terms) by Joshua and the Isrealites ...

Anyway, my point is that even if Africa is actually cursed, it is not written in that particular passage of the bible. Besides, there have been times in history when certain African nations were world powers, so we can't attribute our current problems to a curse.

Ham commited the offence. Canaan was cursed. Canaan represents the seeds or descendants of Ham, which includes Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.

Phut (Put) is the old name for Libya, a member of the set african nation which has an association with Canaan, descendants of Ham.

Diakim, why do you feel that Canaan represents Cush, Mizraim and Phut in addition to himself?

I don't think Africa is cursed. We're developing, that's just it. IIt's a slow process and can take several generations.

Africa in the past (hundreds of years ago) used to be the most prosperous continent and most civillized, then we fell (through war and other gabage I think). We'll rise again, but it'll take time.

Africa is not cured neither Spiritually nor Morally. If you love to read like me, you would easily observe the methodology the Europeans used in order to sink that statement into our subcontious mind to justify the need for slaves. Remember that slavery was started by the missionaries before the capitalists took advantage. Really it is a long story ...but believe very deep down in your mind that it is not true.

We were all created in the image of God, and who can curse who the Lord has blessed. How would God allow a drunk to curse his elect, remember drunkiness is a sin before God, and we know that the eye of the Lord is too pure to behold sin, thus in his drunken state do you think God who have allowed or given attention to the curse?

i don't believe in that spiritual thing. all i think is just that africa is not as wise as the europeans or americans.
everything depends on our mentality. we are too attached to our traditions (i suggest we should start to eliminate some because they are our "enemy of progress").

As a citizen of the most powerful country in the world i know our prosper has come from the hardwork of slaves and subjugation of millions around the world who work for pennies so my country can make trillions. Africa has been raped of its valuable resources by the Global North for hundreds of years. The plight of Africa can be directly linked to the affects of globalization.

michelin89:

i don't believe in that spiritual thing. all i think is just that Africa is not as wise as the Europeans or Americans.
everything depends on our mentality. we are too attached to our traditions (i suggest we should start to eliminate some because they are our "enemy of progress".

good talk Michelin!! the truth is that we are too superstitious and we attribute every single negativity in our lives to witch doctors and charms, i know some people here in Spain that any time they loose a job, they try to blame one uncle in Nigeria for that, i mean this is bullshit, our mentality is still so low, and until we wise up we are not going no where and one more thing we need in Africa to go ahead is called TOLERANCE, we lack this 9 lettered word in Africa

i've often heard this Africa was cursed by Noah theory. So i had to go and really read tha passage to see if Noah's curse had a direct effect on Africa. And i found out it did.
Africans are descended from the son that Noah cursed. I believe strongly but not totally that it has had an effect on us.

if you look at it, biblical statements about certain groups of people always come to pass. God's statement to hagar, the mother of ishmael, who was the son of Abraham goes. From him shall come princes, and his sword shall be against every man and evry mans sword against him. Ishmael is the father of the Arabs, who are muslims.

If you look at world events you will see that Arabs have the most oil rich princes and truly just as God put it , arab world is fighting everything from palestinian homeland dispute, to terrorism, to hijacking of planes. to sucide bombing. To killing of Christians . The truth is their sword is ever ready.


Therefore if such a bibilical statement came tru about arabs, i think africans have felt the same effect. we really have been servants of servants over the years. e.g slave trade, racism,poverty, faminine etc . But that doesn't mean we aren't great people and we can't rise if we come together.

Perhaps there's something we might have missed along the way.

(1) The whole world was cursed - (Gen. 3:17)
Right after Adam sinned, God said, "cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life." I think when you read it in clear context, the ground that was cursed includes everywhere on the face of the earth.

(2) The earth was partially redeemed - (Gen. 8:21)
When Noah offered burnt offerings after the flood, God said, "I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake." To me this sounds like a partial redemption (or 'reversal of the curse'?) of the earth - 'partial' because the earth is still undergoing the effects of the Fall today (Rom. 8:19-22). So then, the curse of Gen. 3:17 is reversed in Gen. 8:21.

(3) Everyone can be blessed - Gen. 22:18
A few generations after Noah, God promised to bless everyone in Abraham (Gen. 18:18) and in his seed (Gen. 22:18) - "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." The seed is said to be Christ (Gal. 3:16). What this means is that the supposed curse of Africans does not hold today - Africans can be blessed in Abraham's seed.

The idea of Africa being cursed spiritually does not hold much weight even from the Bible itself, if one reads Gen. 17:8 where God promised to give the land of Canaan to Abraham - I wonder if anyone would suppose that God was promising a cursed land to him? No, because Canaan was described later as a land flowing with milk and honey (Exo. 3:8 and compare with Lev. 14:34).

Nations have been prosperous or poor in the history of civilization and politics, and God has not restricted prosperity or poverty to any nation today based on a text in Genesis. Africa does not remain under a spiritual curse made to Ham and his descendants - that curse is no longer in force today.

WesleyanA:

I don't think Africa is cursed. We're developing, that's just it. IIt's a slow process and can take several generations.

Africa in the past (hundreds of years ago) used to be the most prosperous continent and most civillized, then we fell (through war and other gabage I think). We'll rise again, but it'll take time.

The thing I always find funny about Africans is our short sightedness. We always forget that in the past, our nations were great and prosperous. I mean Mali is argualbly the site where the first university in the world was built. Timbuktu had millions of volumes of books and scholars from all over the world used to come and study in Mali. But we never remember those stuff. All we can remember is colonialism until now. I think it is a bad case of inferiority complex.
Even if we were cursed God is a forgiving God and if we are repentant there is no reason why he will not forgive us.
If we are cursed then I wonder what type of predicament the Natives in North America are in. Theirs must be a double curse because the things they suffer are even worse than us.

laura:

As a citizen of the most powerful country in the world i know our prosper has come from the hardwork of slaves and subjugation of millions around the world who work for pennies so my country can make trillions. Africa has been raped of its valuable resources by the Global North for hundreds of years. The plight of Africa can be directly linked to the affects of globalization.

Point.

@ mlks_baby,
Thank you for that post

Welcome anytime, enjoyed your post as well.

how come our fathers were selling thier brothers to the white man for mirrors? From the bible it shows clearly that Noah cursed the descendants of ham , which is africa.

i'm not saying thats why we are underdeveloped. But we have to ask ourselves why are we the way we are. Don't say colonialism, because we were living in bushes before then.

nightrider, you have been indoctrinated. There were many large African civilisations prior to colonialism and very few Africans were living in bushes. You're falling for the same arguments that were used to as a justification for the subjugation and enslavement of Africa/Africans

i'm not falling for anything, and i'm not pro slavery. God forbid.

But i do know that we were grossly underdeveloped. while europe was building ships and railwaylines, we were going nuts over simple things like mirrors. that shows we knew nuthin about the industrial revolution going on in those days.

when the british came to rape the bini kingdom. the binis lost the war becuz they said they hadn't seen sticks that brought out fire before(guns). We hadn't developed at all. Thats why we could sell precious human lives for stupid mundane household equipments.

nightrider: Noah cursed the descendants of ham , which is africa.

This is misinformation. Ham, Noah and his curse had nothing to do with Africa. This is a hebraic 'tale by moonlight' taken over by the Christians and was later used to justify African slavery.

As for slavery you should that originally the Oba of Benin like many other kings in Africa refused to sell slaves but then they were deposed to punished them and stooges installed. step up your history study.

The Oba of bini kingdom was not deposed becuz he refused to sell slaves. he was deposed for killing british soldiers who wanted to enter the kingdom during a seasonal festival, which forbade strangers. The oba after the British government retaliated was banished to the ancient city of calabar where he died. The british then went ahead to steal all the art work in the kingdom. E.g the very popular Okada head.
step up your history study

You're talking of the much recent British deposition of Oba Ovonramwen in 1897. By this time if you'll note slave trade was already abolished. I was talking about the Portuguese and the Dutch earlier foray into Benin Kindom way back in the 15th century when slave trade was still just starting.

i heard da same thing toooo!!!!!!!! that we were cursed by God because of that story

i don't believe it thou!!!!!! but whatever it is, thank God all is beta now, at least than at first, the times of our forefathers

come to think of it, i think it's due to our own lack of sense and mentality

if all this bullshit about Africa being cursed by Noah is true and that God is punishing us because of that curse then i will serve that God no more, what have i done wrong to merit that curse as an African? but i don't believe it. WE NEED TO WISE UP , educate ourselves because were alone in this world and we must stop frightening our lives with bullshit, people can not swim in beaches because of stupid stories of mermaids and so on, infact Africa needs another 100 years to cope with level of today

nightrider:

while europe was building ships and railwaylines, we were going nuts over simple things like mirrors.

at this time we were also building pyramids
establishing the great universities and libraries of Timbuktu and Cairo
perfecting the art of ivory, bronze, and teracotta sculptures
domesticating the coffee plant
Shaka Zulu was building an army of thousands of people and inventing military strategies
Great Zimbabwe was thriving
The gold trade was in full form
Decendants of Black African Moors were ruling spain, ( they ruled for 700 years)
The city of Aksum ( where the Ark of the covenant resides) was thriving
we were practising mathematics ( http://www.africahistory.net/lumpkin.htm http://www.africahistory.net/kani.htm)
and much more

So just because we were not
planning the Atlantic slave trade or
planning how to go into North America to kill entire tribes of Native peoples or
planning how to colonise entire continents
does not mean we were backwards.

Every civilisation has their time. Currently it is time for the west and soon our time will come again.

well i dont really know what to believe but if we look at it, we'll see that the european countries are far developed than we are but i also believe every curse can be broken
so nairalanders in Nigeria and other African countries BEGIN TO PRAY.
Send missiles to destroy Noah's curse else we might be backward for a long time
ANYWAY CURSE OR NO CURSE I'M GONNA BE WHAT I WANNA BE NO MATTER WHAT THE CASE MAY BE

i dont think africa is just one big empty piece of land, i think it has alot to offer to this world but isnt used correctly we dont have natural disasters and alot of things

I never said that Africa was backward becuz of Noahs curse.
But Noah did curse his son, by telling him, his generations will be servants of servants.
And unfortunately we are the sons generations.

But every curse has been broken by the blood of Jesus. The bible says cursed is he who hangs on a tree.
And all so he was wounded for our transgressions, and the punishment for our peace was upon him and by his stripes we are healed.

So Africa is not suffering under a curse. But The generations of ham were cursed and the generations of ham is Africa( that cannot be denied)

maybe i'm undererstimating the overall development of Africa b4 the europeans came. But i do not believe that we were technologically advanced. Except someone can prove me wrong.

nightrider:


maybe i'm undererstimating the overall development of Africa before the europeans came. But i do not believe that we were technologically advanced. Except someone can prove me wrong.

First, I am not sure about what your definition of "technologically advanced"is.

I think you are underestimating the overall development of Africa before colonialism. I used to as well until I started doing some research into Africa before colonialism. The other thing you have to note is that even in Europe and Asia there are ethnic groups or nations that have advanced at a faster rate than others even in pre-colonialism times and post-colonialism times. Also take note of some of the feats that "ancient" people achieved that even in this day and age and with our "technological advancement" scientists can't figure out how they did it. For example The Pyramids, The Gambia stones

However before colonialism Africa was progressing at her own rate. We may not have invented gun powder and guns however we were inventing technology that worked for us at that time. I guess most people ask the question of what led some cultures to invent things like guns, gun powder, e.t.c. Many people have tried to answer this question by giving theories like it was the difference in weather, geography e.t.c. YOu can try reading this book Guns, germs, and steel : the fates of human societies by Jared Diamond.

The other issue is that before slavery and colonialism Africans were considered to be equals with europeans. The Bini people sent Ambassadors to portugal and the Oba of Bini( I can't remember which one) was speaking and writing portugese before colonialism. Historians have said that even up until a few years after colonialism there still existed a group of Bini people who could speak a pidgin of portugese. Once again if you read some of the history you will see that the earliest portugese people in the Bini KIngdom wrote that they were very impressed with the organisation of the Bini kingdom. And it even goes as far as the art work that europeans were creating then. In some of the art work black people were represented in clothes talking to Europe's Kings and Queens. The representation and feelings about African people changed from positive to negative when Europe wanted to Colonise Africa. They started writing stuff about us being babarians, uncouth, backwards e.t.c. so that they could justify their colonialism. The history people know about AFrica is the one that has been written by the European world to justify their treatment of Africans during colonialism and slavery.

However you asked about Africa and technological advancement , I will post some links in my next post

This following was copied from this site http://www.saxakali.com/COLOR_ASP/historymaf.htm

In Ivan Van Sertima's (1984) book Blacks in Science: Ancient and Modern, countless examples of African science from articles by several different authors are given. A few examples are listed below:

1. The Dogon of Mali had an excellent understanding of the solar system and the universe 700 years ago. The Dogon had detailed knowledge of a white dwarf companion star to Sirius A which was not visible to the naked eye. Western scientists stated that there was no way that the Dogon could have uncovered this knowledge on their own and that it must have been supplied to them by a visiting European or an extra- terrestrial visitor.

2. The Yoruba tribe had an exceedingly complex number system based on twenty.

3. A 35,000 year old, fossilized baboon bone found in Zaire, the Ishango bone, is covered with a series of notches or tally marks, which makes it the oldest mathematical object in the world, and the world's earliest number system. The bone is also a lunar phase counter, which suggest that African women were the first mathematicians since keeping track of menstrual cycles requires a lunar calendar.

4. There was a very accurate calendar system in Eastern Africa by the first millenium B.C. (Lynch & Robbins 1984).

5. A megalithic site similar to stonehenge dating to 300 B.C. was found in northwest Kenya. Its nineteen basalt pillars were aligned extremely accurately with the stars and constellations (Lynch & Robbins 1984).

6. A model of a glider dated to the 4th or 3rd century B.C. was found in Egypt. The structure of the object was most definitely aerodynamically designed (Messiha et al. 1984).

7. An iron-ore mine in Swaziland, the oldest found in the world, was dated as 43,000 years old. The ore specularite was used as a cosmetic and pigment (Zaslavsky 1984).

8. Africans developed technology to build sea-worthy boats and the ability to navigate over long expanses of ocean . There is ample evidence to suggest that African explorers reached South and Central America long before Columbus made his journeys (Malloy 1984).

9. 1500 to 2000 years ago near Lake Victoria, carbon steel was made in blast furnaces. The temperature achieved in the furnaces, 1,800C, was much higher than was managed in Europe until modern times (Van Sertima 1984).

10. By the year 1000 AD, in the Middle East, Ibn al-Haytham, a Muslim mathematician and astronomer, was studying atmospheric refraction, and by the 1100s a fellow Muslim, geographer Abu Abdallah Muhammad al-Idrisi, divided the world into seven climatic zones. Climate changes have long since tuned vast savannas and grasslands bodering Africa’s Sahara into desert. Translations of Arabic texts into Latin help spread knowledge of such instruments as the astrolabe.

Ancient African Numerals

Mathematics in Africa started much earlier from the first written numerals of ancient Egypt around 3100 BC. Ancient African calendars made use of numbers and calculation at an early stage. Ancient Africans also discovered and use the concept of zero (see The Discovery of Zero), and wrote several texts on math and other subjects.




some more info

chemistry has its roots, in Ancient Egypt. They used it in the creation of synthetic pigments for clothes.http://africanhistory.about.com/od/hieroglyphs/a/ColorTech.htm

In the Nok culture Iron working, smelting and fabrication of iron tools became widespread in the region from around 350 BCE http://africanhistory.about.com/od/kingdoms/a/NokCulture.htm

Thanks, very enlightening. I'd really like to read your links. Because i look around at my office and i can't see one thing we invented. from the computers to the fans , to the T.V, even the carpet, bottles for drinking water. evry thing is either imported or a product of technology transferand even then its just assembled here . we've got to wake up .