I feel you nightrider, i used to wonder as well why it seemed like Africans had contributed nothing to the world but then after reading some stuff recommended to me, I started to think differently. Although sometimes when I look at our circumstances I feel down, I always remind myself that we have done great things in the past and we can do it again.



Here are some recommendations for books:

The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality?  by Cheikh Anta Diop,

Civilization or Barbarism  by Cheikh Anta Diop,

Stolen Legacy by George G.M. James

Pre-colonial Central Africa: Documents of Living History by Theophile Obenga

African Glory: The Story of Vanished Negro Civilizations by J.C. DeGraft-Johnson

How Europe Underdeveloped Africa  by Walter Rodney


Some interesting sites and articles
http://www.afrotoronto.com/Articles/Jan06/BlackAthena.html

Ancient Africa's Black Kingdoms
http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/ancientafrica.html

Journal of African Civilisations
http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/sertima.html

Yes i believe Africa is cursed and troubled but only here on earth, always remember God's words:

Matthew 5:3
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".

nightrider: So Africa is not suffering under a curse. But The generations of ham were cursed and the generations of ham is Africa( that cannot be denied)

"generations of ham is Africa"? This is based on what fact sir?

Diakim;
We should only believe this Ham Curse nonsense,only if we believe that we're actually descended from Adam,which is balderdash.Africans are no descendants of any Adam or Eve,and our seemingly cursed situation comes from a totally different perspective.Ofcourse that is another topic entirely.IMO

Thank you jagunlabi. The level of ignorance around here is pathetic. It makes sense of course if one consider the state of our educational system but still "generations of ham is Africa"?

demmy:

Thank you jagunlabi. The level of ignorance around here is pathetic.

hmmmmm, amazing!

First question  i should ask you is, do you believe the bible?

if you do,search the passage in the bible thats given at the beginning of this thread. read about ham and his sons. Who did they become?. if after you read it, you don't understand it. Theres no piont explaining to you, you probably will never get it.


if you don't believe the bible, then theres no  piont explaining  it to you, you will never get it.

the ball is in your court

get what exactly?

read the post above

I still don't understand what you're trying to say. What do you mean by believing in the bible? Believing that all of it's content is literally true? Believing in it in an allegorical manner? believing in it's hidden message? What exactly?

i can see you like this arguments. i'm not going to get into it. read the post, if doesn't make sense to you then forget it. it'll make sense to someoneelse.

I understand: don't dig too deep before the house of cards starts crumbling down. These arguments are just skin deep (if it even reaches that level).

thats not the problem. it's because your arguments with you are always the same.
GOD DOESN"T EXIST, GOD EXISTS. and then you use all sorts of funny logic to disprove the existence of God. it always ends up in a round robin game, and the arguments end up being no different from the last one. Thats why i don't want to go there.

i'm kinda tired of it. God exists and all your long hours of typing and Funny logic can't make a difference. Your subtly trying to lead me into an argument thats meaningless and stale to both of us. Thats is until God finds you and you're dumbstruck.

I can have a perfectly rational discussion with someone who doesn't read the Bible as the literal truth.
Unfortunately, literalists end up in all kind of end-time prophecies and funny explanations like Africans are the sons of Ham and therefore cursed. To get to that conclusion one needs to cherry pick from the Bible what supports one's initial ideas, ignoring everything that doesn't support one's already made up conclusion and especially ignoring hard information that does not originate in the Bible.

Anyway, what you're saying is that God exists because you say so. Funny rationale

ohhh!!! there is a lot of confusion here over the bible and Africa

h

reality bla bla bla bla bla??

I really don't care one way or the other. I choose not to be cursed. Anyone (African) feeling particularly cursed today?

Actually if you read carefully, you will find Ham wasn't the one that was cursed, it was Canaan and what he was cursed with was Leprosy which was passed onto his descendants. Therefore Africans cannot be the cursed ones because the curse involved the whitening of the skin.

Africa is spiritually curesed because africans have turned their backs on their own gods and worship foreign gods.Until they return back to their roots and start worshipping their own deities again,there will continue to be spiritual emptiness in the land.IMHO.

jagunlabi:

Africa is spiritually curesed because africans have turned their backs on their own gods and worship foreign gods.Until they return back to their roots and start worshipping their own deities again,there will continue to be spiritual emptiness in the land.IMHO.

Hear! Hear!

@nightrider,

You can get a list of inventions on the internet. Just type "Black inventions" on google and the results will pop out.

Here is one that I found.

http://www.ritesofpassage.org/inventors.htm

growing up in a very small town in Mississipppi I has always loved Africa.Know that I am older and I interact with you people,I am head over heals in love. I love that you guys know your God.You study his word and you invest it into your lives.I hate the fact that some turn that knowledge of the bible into other things that are not of God. Africa is not cursed. I believe that the devil is fighting hard against africa,but Africa will prevail. If Africans but their minds to it they could become the new United States. You have the resources just not enough God fearing people in high places to make it happen.Africa needs deliverance but is not cursed.

Afrobeat referred to How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney. Even though it was first published in 1973, the analysis still stands like a brick house. You can read it online as well.

Why do people find it necessary to lie about what the bible says, to curse Black people?

The topic poster should repent of his lies by remembering God hates liars.

[size=16pt]Meaning of the word Canaan--Merchant-Traffic (seller)[/size]

H3667
כּנען
kena‛an
ken-ah'-an
From H3665; humiliated; Kenaan, a son of Ham; also the country inhabited by him: - Canaan, merchant, traffick.

[size=16pt] The Devil in the bible  [/size]

Eze 28:13-18  Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.  Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
[size=16pt]By the multitude of thy merchandise[/size] they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, [size=16pt]by the iniquity of thy traffick; [/size]therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

How can someone even pretend to know what the bible is saying Spiritually, when they do not understand what should be plain to all?

Canaan represents merchants in this world.
The devil corrupts the world because of merchants and traffic (buying and selling).

Want to understand this throughly? Add these scriptures in to the above:

1Ti 6:10  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

2Co 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[size=16pt]If satan is the god of this world as Paul says and the love of money is the root of all evil, what should we find in this world?[/size]

A world where people are slaughtered ruthlessly, enslaved, colonized, oppression and imperialism should rule this world.

And that is exactly what we do find.

[size=16pt]The end of this world again is going to come down to money, merchants, buying and selling.[/size]

Rev 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Rev 18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

[size=16pt]Satan's Throne is in Europe[/size]

Rev 2:12  And to the angel of the church in Pergamos* write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

*Pergamos was considered the Religious capital of the Roman Empire.


Rev 2:13  I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

[size=16pt]Now do the math folks.[/size]

1. Root of all evil, love of money
2. satan is god of this world
3. satan's throne is in Europe
4. satan lives in Europe

Thus in this world we should find that Europeans have all the money and because of money Europeans rule?

Ask yourself, was the bible right about that?

Of course it was.

Sigh. Sorry about all the big letters, but this is kind of of frustrating that Black Christians go around promoting Bullshyte from the bible, thinking they know something but proving they know nothing and the little bit they do think they know, is lies they have made up.

Start following the bible, quit worshipping the whiteman.

Nferyn,

It is a good thing that I talked to you about Walter Rodney and gave you that link to read Walter Rodney's book online, last month.

Which you told me that you did go and read it.

Now others can benefit from what I have taught you, since your now giving out the link, I gave you.

Drusilla:

Nferyn,

It is a good thing that I talked to you about Walter Rodney and gave you that link to read Walter Rodney's book online, last month.

Which you told me that you did go and read it.

Now others can benefit from what I have taught you, since your now giving out the link, I gave you.

Yes Drusilla,

I appreciated the gesture and read it. I won't say cover to cover because it's an online book, but I read all of it.

Unfortunately you didn't seem to let the message sink in yourself. Your constant harping on racial explanatory factors point to the fact that you either didn't read the book yourself or didn't agree with it's message. You seem to like to align yourself with certain ideas when it suits your agenda, but ignore them when it doesn't suit your agenda. It just makes me think of the New Black Panther Party who wants to appropriates the legacy of the Original Black Pather Party, against the express wishes of the Huey P. Newton Foundation

Nferyn,

Come now the book was written in 1972. This is the exact same time that African Americans were first given Classical African Studies departments at Univerisity's.

We have learned a lot more about our situtation since Walter Rodney wrote his book.

Unfortunately, Mr. Rodney is not here to share in the new knowledge.

He would have without question have contributed greatly to Afrocentricism and been the biggest promoter of it, if he had ever learned about it.

Of that I have no doubt.

Drusilla:

Nferyn,

Come now the book was written in 1972. This is the exact same time that African Americans were first given Classical African Studies departments at Univerisity's.

And that deligitimises the analysis? The prose may be in the classic marxist revolutionary mode of expression, but that does not undermine the analysis, not in the least. It is still as valid as it is today.

Drusilla:

We have learned a lot more about our situtation since Walter Rodney wrote his book.

What exactly? That a class analysis should be replaced by a racial one? That's exactly what the Huey P. Newton Foundation fights against.

Drusilla:

Unfortunately, Mr. Rodney is not here to share in the new knowledge.

He would have without question have contributed greatly to Afrocentricism and been the biggest promoter of it, if he had ever learned about it.

There is no problem with Afrocentrism as such, only with your variant thereof, it is based on bad science and bad historiography. Do you honestly believe that someone like Newton or Rodney would have embraced the idiotic ideas of melanin theorists such as Welsing, Nobles or Barnes?

Drusilla:

Of that I have no doubt.

Doubt is the last thing that will [i]cloud [/i]your mind, isn't it?

Nferyn,

And that deligitimises the analysis? The prose may be in the classic marxist revolutionary mode of expression, but that does not undermine the analysis, not in the least. It is still as valid as it is today.

Yes, because he did not have all the information we have today. One would be remiss after watching all the socialist and communist governments 'fall', to not realize that obviously something was invalid about marxist thinking.

Dubois a communist, apologized to Black Nationalists before he died.

Nkrumah of course embraced Afrocentrism with his socialism before he died. His form of socialism is now known as African Socialism or Radical African socialism.

I have previously given you links to perfectly blended Afrocentric and Socialist websites.

So yes, Rodney's analysis would have changed to be a perfect blend of Afrocentricism and Socialism, if he had not been killed.

We have learned a lot more about our situtation since Walter Rodney wrote his book.

What exactly? That a class analysis should be replaced by a racial one? That's exactly what the Huey P. Newton Foundation fights against.

What they have to say, is meaningless. Huey Newton founded the Black[/b]Panthers.

Their the ones trying to tell you to ignore the fact that it was a [b]black organization and to pretend that it was a marxist organization.

Their silly and it's sillier to consider them the only people in America who can say what the Black Panthers legacy means in America.

Huey Newton was convicted of stealing from the Black Panthers organization before he died.

Apparently, the foundation did not tell you that and you somehow think that they have some credibility in deciding the course of the black panthers in this nation.

There is no problem with Afrocentrism as such, only with your variant thereof, it is based on bad science and bad historiography. Do you honestly believe that someone like Newton or Rodney would have embraced the idiotic ideas of melanin theorists such as Welsing, Nobles or Barnes?

Who are Nobles and Barnes? I only know of Dr. Welsing.

Of that I have no doubt.

Doubt is the last thing that will cloud your mind, isn't it?

Not as easily as you hoped. Asking questions and stating irrelevant facts about irrelevant foundations, nah. Your not clouding my mind at all.

Africa is not a cursed country, our backwardness has to do with our greedy leaders.

Then we are cursed with greedy leaders(religious leaders inclusive) who cause our backwardness at all levels, which means that Africa is cursed.Q.E.D
But i bekieve that every individual curses him/herself because of the readiness to self-expose to deceit and manipulations and the reluctance to spiritual self evolution.Black africans are too docile because we prefer to be led by others than to take the challenging responsibility of leading ourselves individually to greater heights.

mama-gee:

Africa is not a cursed country, our backwardness has to do with our greedy leaders.