livingchrist:
yes
Christians are spiritual Isreal and not everyone from Israel is truly an isrealities but understand that my submission on pre tribualtion is based on the promise of God to rebuild the nation of Israel which will eventually consist of those who are naturally Jews and Gentiles who became jews by rebirth. Jesus mentioned it in John that there are sheep not of the Jewsish fold but would be joined to the Jews at the later days and paul said God is not through with the natural jews but will surely revisit them, this was already showed to Daniel as the last 7 years which of the 70 weeks prophecy.
Only the pretribulation can put all these puzzles together. Whether you believe in the pretribulation rapture or not it does not deny the fact you made a good submission.

Fair enough.

However, I didn't say that Christians are "spiritual Israel." I don't know anything like a "spiritual Israel." What I said is that Gentile believers are made a part of the nation of Israel in a spiritual sense.

What that means is that what applies to the nation of Israel spiritually applies to Gentile believers too spiritually. But certain things that apply to Israel "politically" or "legally" do not apply to Gentile believers because they are Gentiles.

So, for example, we are going to be saved eternally just like Jews who believe. We are also going to experience Jacob's trouble because we are Jacob's children too and the trouble is a spiritual business. But we are not to get crazy about circumcision, Sabbaths, new moons, etc because we are not ethnic Jews. Those are legal matters exclusive to ethnic Jews.

Ihedinobi3:


Fair enough.

However, I didn't say that Christians are "spiritual Israel." I don't know anything like a "spiritual Israel." What I said is that Gentile believers are made a part of the nation of Israel in a spiritual sense.

What that means is that what applies to the nation of Israel spiritually applies to Gentile believers too spiritually. But certain things that apply to Israel "politically" or "legally" do not apply to Gentile believers because they are Gentiles.

So, for example, we are going to be saved eternally just like Jews who believe. We are also going to experience Jacob's trouble because we are Jacob's children too and the trouble is a spiritual business. But we are not to get crazy about circumcision, Sabbaths, new moons, etc because we are not ethnic Jews. Those are legal matters exclusive to ethnic Jews.

You are right with others but when you say Jew, who do you mean? The true Jews were Judeans and they have all left Isreal and back to their first home in Africa. The whites Jews of Isreal are impostors. The Bible called them synagogues of Satan Rev 2:9; 3:9. They were all babylonian converts who replaced us when we left Isreal back to our real land of our mother in Africa. Read 2 Kings 17:24 also read all the chapter for a better understanding to know how we left that land and how they replaced us there. We are the true Isreal and the holy land is in Africa not Middle East. You all have forgotten who you are and that is the reason for endtime. It means end of all lies use to enslave the true ppl and the Revelation of the truth. You all will understand soon.

DappaD:


I’d prefer if you just read it yourself and see if it makes sense to you. The link below will provide clear, direct answers to your quest in understanding Revelation 12:1-17.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101988027

Let me know if this provides the answers you’re looking for.

Thanks alot sir.....

It sure Did.....


God Bless you.......

MaxInDHouse:

DappaD, are you sure?

Am still here.....

hv gone true the link he sent....

Got a clearer view....

Donspicey:

Thanks alot sir.....
It sure Did.....
God Bless you.......

There’s a whole lot more that you can see on jw.org using the link https://www.jw.org/en/

The front-page articles might be of particular interest to you.

DappaD:



There’s a whole lot more that you can see on jw.org using the link https://www.jw.org/en/

The front-page articles might be of particular interest to you.

Ok sir....I will sure check it out....

MaxInDHouse:


Brother i can fell Blabbermouth is still very much around o!

Good day, saw your mentions. I've actually been off the religion section for a while now (it's somehow boring now to me), only come on nairaland to check front page and a guy's posts in the romance section

I see, i SEE!

Blabbermouth:

Good day, saw your mentions. I've actually been off the religion section for a while now (it's somehow boring now to me), only come on nairaland to check front page and a guy's posts in the romance section

bobestman:

You are right with others but when you say Jew, who do you mean? The true Jews were Judeans and they have all left Isreal and back to their first home in Africa. The whites Jews of Isreal are impostors. The Bible called them synagogues of Satan Rev 2:9; 3:9. They were all babylonian converts who replaced us when we left Isreal back to our real land of our mother in Africa. Read 2 Kings 17:24 also read all the chapter for a better understanding to know how we left that land and how they replaced us there. We are the true Isreal and the holy land is in Africa not Middle East. You all have forgotten who you are and that is the reason for endtime. It means end of all lies use to enslave the true ppl and the Revelation of the truth. You all will understand soon.

Hi there.

I don't know any part of the Bible that teaches any of the above. And I only believe what the Bible says.

MaxInDHouse:
I see, i SEE!

Where is my incarnate?

Now that you've spoken walahi talahi i believe you even much more than my teeth Sir!

Blabbermouth:

Where is my incarnate?

Ihedinobi3:


Hi there.

I don't know any part of the Bible that teaches any of the above. And I only believe what the Bible says.

I told you what the bible said. There are references up there too. It's Okay

Ihedinobi3:


Hi there.

As verses 1 and 3 both say, the woman and the dragon are metaphors for something else. It is important to note that unless Revelation (and indeed any other part of the Bible) says that something is a sign, we would be most unwise to assume that it is not being literal. Your questions show that you recognize that these are signs that need interpretation, good for you.

1. The woman is Israel, just as the 12 stars show. Compare Genesis 37:9-10. The 12 stars stand for the 12 tribes of Israel.

2. The child is the Lord Jesus Christ. Many Bible passages here in Revelation and all over the Bible including Psalm 2, Isaiah 7, and Isaiah 9 attest to this.

3. As verse 5 says and as the rest of the Bible bears witness, the Lord Jesus will return to destroy Satan's kingdom ruling over the earth currently and take rulership over the whole world.

there is a little bit of dancing that goes with interpreting this passage.

1. the woman is Israel
2. She gives birth to Christ....

but if you keep reading you will find out that the devil goes to make war with the Children of the Woman, i.e Christians, which would mean that at the last part of the revation the Woman isn't just Israel but instead the Church or as some will say the Jerusalem above our mother.

How do explain that last part where the focus moves from Israel to the Church?

DappaD:



Genesis 3:15 and Galatians 4:26 can help us understand who this “woman” truly is.
Paul speaks of “Jerusalem above” in the latter verse as the “mother” of him and other anointed/chosen Christians.
Compare with Romans 8:14-17 & Galatians 3:26-29

The birth of the “male child” too is closely related to Jesus Christ but in another sense of becoming a King because Revelation 12:5 says that he is to shepherd the nations with an iron rod but it’s not only Jesus who will do this. A few number who go to heaven will also be chosen to “shepherd the nations” with an iron rod as well.
Revelation 2:26-27

This subject is somewhat complex to grasp because there are a number of things about Genesis 3:15 that you must understand first.

if you are going to be Joining everything written "woman" there is also woman in Gal 4:4

Ubenedictus:
there is a little bit of dancing that goes with interpreting this passage.

1. the woman is Israel
2. She gives birth to Christ....

but if you keep reading you will find out that the devil goes to make war with the Children of the Woman, i.e Christians, which would mean that at the last part of the revation the Woman isn't just Israel but instead the Church or as some will say the Jerusalem above our mother.

How do explain that last part where the focus moves from Israel to the Church?

Bro pls stop lying. The creator only made a covenant with Isreal. The woman has 12 stars on her head representing the 12 sons of Jocob which is ISREAL. The last part says the devil went to make war with the children of the woman which keep God's commands. Only Isreal does that. The Church teaches that the laws were abolished and they don't keep it. How was church or Christians found there?? Don't twist the word of God for something very glaring or clear so you won't face his wrath.

And also
Christ or Jesus was never the true name of the Messiah
His disciples were never called Christians but were assumed or called by the ppl in Antioch...
Church was only mentioned in the book of Rev from 1-3 and they were thoroughly warned, after that they were never mentioned. All you heard after we're tribes, tongues, people etc and that's how all were judged which means Isreal. In Hebrew text, you will never see anything church but Isreal.

In summary the chapter was about the incoming war which will soon happen on earth that will lead to the establishment of the Kingdom. See Daniel 2. The children or seeds of the devil on earth now will go to war against the children of the woman which is ISREAL(In Africa). We can only defeat them when the Messiah appears on the hills to fight for us.

The scriptures was only given to true Isreal by bloodline and they have the unsealings. Many things you read there were plagiarized and they are the ones to tell you all that happened Isaiah 44:7

bobestman:


I told you what the bible said. There are references up there too. It's Okay

These are the passages that you posted.

9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 2:9 (NKJV)

9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
Revelation 3:9 (NKJV)

24 Then the king of Assyria brought people from Babylon, Cuthah, Ava, Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel; and they took possession of Samaria and dwelt in its cities.
2 Kings 17:24 (NKJV)

Nothing in any of them says that the true Jews had their first home in Africa or that they returned there. Nothing in them says anything about the color of the Jews. Nothing in them says that the holy land (whatever that means) is really in Africa.

So I can't see how the Scriptures say anything like what you teach.

Ubenedictus:
there is a little bit of dancing that goes with interpreting this passage.

1. the woman is Israel
2. She gives birth to Christ....

but if you keep reading you will find out that the devil goes to make war with the Children of the Woman, i.e Christians, which would mean that at the last part of the revation the Woman isn't just Israel but instead the Church or as some will say the Jerusalem above our mother.

How do explain that last part where the focus moves from Israel to the Church?

Hello Ubenedictus.

Been a minute. I hope that you have been well.

As I have said in other responses on this thread, the Church is Israel and Israel is the Church. They are one and the same thing.

Ihedinobi3:


These are the passages that you posted.

9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 2:9 (NKJV)

9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
Revelation 3:9 (NKJV)

24 Then the king of Assyria brought people from Babylon, Cuthah, Ava, Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel; and they took possession of Samaria and dwelt in its cities.
2 Kings 17:24 (NKJV)

Nothing in any of them says that the true Jews had their first home in Africa or that they returned there. Nothing in them says anything about the color of the Jews. Nothing in them says that the holy land (whatever that means) is really in Africa.

So I can't see how the Scriptures say anything like what you teach.

Hehehe very funny. So you want to know everything in a book that has rewritten many times and plagiarized from an ancient book hidden since the days Daniel 12:4. Many things I tell you are either from the unsealings or by Revelation. There is also no harm in researching then cos the bible teaches you should be like the Bereans who search out all things to know if it's true.

The abode of Mother Isreal in Revelation 12 is in a land in Africa. Africa is close to the equator and close to the sun. This is the meaning of she was clothed with the sun. When you see words like Cush, Ethiopia, Egypt, Wilderness etc all these are codes for Africa.
Sorry can't give you scripture for all that cos the geography and location of many places in the book were changed by your enemies to hide the truth from. My teachings might look like assertion to you but I don't care cos you will understand soon. Many Hebrews knew how it all happened and have seen this Africa in his prehistoric days. It will be clear soon .

Ubenedictus:
if you are going to be Joining everything written "woman" there is also woman in Gal 4:4

I’m not just joining any and everything. Genesis 3:15[which doesn’t apply to Eve] and Galatians 4:26 are in harmony with the “woman” at Revelation 12:1 and there are several reasons for this.

bobestman:

Bro pls stop lying. The creator only made a covenant with Isreal. The woman has 12 stars on her head representing the 12 sons of Jocob which is ISREAL. The last part says the devil went to make war with the children of the woman which keep God's commands. Only Isreal does that. The Church teaches that the laws were abolished and they don't keep it. How was church or Christians found there?? Don't twist the word of God for something very glaring or clear so you won't face his wrath.

And also
Christ or Jesus was never the true name of the Messiah
His disciples were never called Christians but were assumed or called by the ppl in Antioch...
Church was only mentioned in the book of Rev from 1-3 and they were thoroughly warned, after that they were never mentioned. All you heard after we're tribes, tongues, people etc and that's how all were judged which means Isreal. In Hebrew text, you will never see anything church but Isreal.

In summary the chapter was about the incoming war which will soon happen on earth that will lead to the establishment of the Kingdom. See Daniel 2. The children or seeds of the devil on earth now will go to war against the children of the woman which is ISREAL(In Africa). We can only defeat them when the Messiah appears on the hills to fight for us.

The scriptures was only given to true Isreal by bloodline and they have the unsealings. Many things you read there were plagiarized and they are the ones to tell you all that happened Isaiah 44:7

sorry no be fight o

Ihedinobi3:


Hello Ubenedictus.

Been a minute. I hope that you have been well.

As I have said in other responses on this thread, the Church is Israel and Israel is the Church. They are one and the same thing.

hmm, u knw a new testament author did make a distinction between Sinai and Jerusalem, the old and the new?

bobestman:


Hehehe very funny. So you want to know everything in a book that has rewritten many times and plagiarized from an ancient book hidden since the days Daniel 12:4. Many things I tell you are either from the unsealings or by Revelation. There is also no harm in researching then cos the bible teaches you should be like the Bereans who search out all things to know if it's true.

The abode of Mother Isreal in Revelation 12 is in a land in Africa. Africa is close to the equator and close to the sun. This is the meaning of she was clothed with the sun. When you see words like Cush, Ethiopia, Egypt, Wilderness etc all these are codes for Africa.
Sorry can't give you scripture for all that cos the geography and location of many places in the book were changed by your enemies to hide the truth from. My teachings might look like assertion to you but I don't care cos you will understand soon. Many Hebrews knew how it all happened and have seen this Africa in his prehistoric days. It will be clear soon .

Well, you have at least admitted that there is no biblical evidence for your claims. As I said before, I haven't seen these things in the Bible and I only believe what the Bible says.

Ihedinobi3:


Well, you have at least admitted that there is no biblical evidence for your claims. As I said before, I haven't seen these things in the Bible and I only believe what the Bible says.

You will understand soon. Africa is the land of creation. No matter how lie flies, truth will surely overtake it. That's the meaning of end time

The book says " The book says the world awaits the manifestation of the sons God"
The Sons of God are the black race whose histories were turned upside down to stop their awakening, the Manifestation here is talking about their Awakening

They will wake up from all political and religious lies used to keep them in bondage. This will start a great revolution, they will deal with their govt and take power back to the ppl. The elites that caused the problems will then pretend to bring peace but it's war, they will resist till they win in the end with help of their spiritual ppl and a certain saviour of their race. That's what was coded in Revelation 12 unknown to all

Ubenedictus:
hmm, u knw a new testament author did make a distinction between Sinai and Jerusalem, the old and the new?

21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:
“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
Gal 4:21 — Gal 4:31 (NKJV)

I believe that the quote above is the passage you mean. I think it is obvious from there that Paul was speaking of the two covenants, the one at Sinai and the one at the Cross.

For what it is worth, what Paul is teaching there is that the Law was given through Moses to teach the Jews (and the whole world by extension) that we are sinful people in need of a special intervention by God in order to escape going to Hell. That is what "the law is a schoolmaster whose job is to bring us to Christ" means.

So, that Jerusalem that Paul was speaking of was the regime of law that the Pharisees and the Scribes were perpetuating at that time. It offered no salvation, only guilt. That wasn't the Jerusalem of God's own offering. The Law was not supposed to be a stop. It was supposed to be a guide to salvation.

The Jerusalem that is "above" is the salvation that we all receive by faith in Jesus Christ. When we accept our sinfulness and our own inability to ever save ourselves, then we become able to accept the Gospel and be saved. When we do accept it, we become like Isaac, children of Abraham. That is not a different Israel. That is the true Israel. Those Pharisees, scribes, and other Jews who refused to believe were the ones who were false Israelites. Faith is what makes anyone a true Jew.

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
Rom 9:6 — Rom 9:8 (NKJV)

So, no two "Israels," just one. All who believe the Gospel are part of Israel. All who don't are not.

In conclusion then, Israel is the Church and the Church is Israel, just as I said before.

bobestman:

You will understand soon. Africa is the land of creation. No matter how lie flies, truth will surely overtake it. That's the meaning of end time

I couldn't agree more with you: The truth will always overcome the lie, no matter how far or how fast it flies.

And it will overcome your lies as well.

Ihedinobi3:


I couldn't agree more with you: The truth will always overcome the lie, no matter how far or how fast it flies.

And it will overcome your lies as well.

Am not begging you to agree with me cos ignorance is like sleep and your initial reaction is to be mad at the person who wakes you up. All this were coded for you in scriptures, many of your pastors have seen it, your enemies have acted it in movies and many of us have seen it via revelation. The day you wake up is your morning

bobestman:


Am not begging you to agree with me cos ignorance is like sleep and your initial reaction is to be mad at the person who wakes you up. All this were coded for you in scriptures, many of your pastors have seen it, your enemies have acted it in movies and many of us have seen it via revelation. The day you wake up is your morning

You mean the same Scriptures that you also said are corrupt and no longer carry the information that they originally had?

Ihedinobi3:


You mean the same Scriptures that you also said are corrupt and no longer carry the information that they originally had?

You won't understand until the time the truth comes out.

Ihedinobi3:


21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:
“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
Gal 4:21 — Gal 4:31 (NKJV)

I believe that the quote above is the passage you mean. I think it is obvious from there that Paul was speaking of the two covenants, the one at Sinai and the one at the Cross.

For what it is worth, what Paul is teaching there is that the Law was given through Moses to teach the Jews (and the whole world by extension) that we are sinful people in need of a special intervention by God in order to escape going to Hell. That is what "the law is a schoolmaster whose job is to bring us to Christ" means.

So, that Jerusalem that Paul was speaking of was the regime of law that the Pharisees and the Scribes were perpetuating at that time. It offered no salvation, only guilt. That wasn't the Jerusalem of God's own offering. The Law was not supposed to be a stop. It was supposed to be a guide to salvation.

The Jerusalem that is "above" is the salvation that we all receive by faith in Jesus Christ. When we accept our sinfulness and our own inability to ever save ourselves, then we become able to accept the Gospel and be saved. When we do accept it, we become like Isaac, children of Abraham. That is not a different Israel. That is the true Israel. Those Pharisees, scribes, and other Jews who refused to believe were the ones who were false Israelites. Faith is what makes anyone a true Jew.

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
Rom 9:6 — Rom 9:8 (NKJV)

So, no two "Israels," just one. All who believe the Gospel are part of Israel. All who don't are not.

In conclusion then, Israel is the Church and the Church is Israel, just as I said before.

i have no problem with the church as Israel...for me that is basic...but I have read interpretations here that allows the church to the Israel when it seems suitable and immediately rejects it when people start to draw lines in the sand about old and new covenants and how Israel ended in the old and has no relationship to the church of the new

bobestman:

You won't understand until the time the truth comes out.

I think that that would be you.

Ubenedictus:
i have no problem with the church as Israel...for me that is basic...but I have read interpretations here that allows the church to the Israel when it seems suitable and immediately rejects it when people start to draw lines in the sand about old and new covenants and how Israel ended in the old and has no relationship to the church of the new

I have already explained in other responses that we who are Gentile believers are only Israelites in a spiritual sense. We are not Israelites in a legal sense, therefore many things that apply legally (or naturally, in a manner of speaking) to natural descendants of Israel do not apply to us. For example, the Temple worship, circumcision, Sabbaths, etc do not apply to Gentile believers. They only apply to natural Jews.

However, all things that apply to Israel in a spiritual sense, for example, Salvation, Tribulation, divine discipline, special protection and provision, etc, apply to Gentile believers too.

Ihedinobi3:


I think that that would be you.

Ok