Joagbaje:

@Greybeard
We can read any book , the book by Josephus gave some lights historically for example. But one has to be careful about books that are contrary to the bible.

I completely agree. Books that are contrary to the Bible are indeed contrary to Christianity. The Book of Enoch isn't one of them. An explanation of it is beyond the scope of this thread however, it is a fact that the book formed part of the old testament for hundreds of years and was subsequently removed by the catholic church for reasons that were in my opinion political but are really best known to them. Yet the Ethiopic Church (which existed long before the roman catholic church) so no reason to remove it from the Bible and so kept it in. This is why if you an Ethiopian Christian your Bible still contains the book.
Other books removed from the mainstream Bible by the catholic church include The Book of Tobit, The Books of Jubilees, Maccabees and others.

Snowwy:


Greybeard,
No need for argument. If the 66 books of the bible are not sufficiently inspired for you and you prefer to get your 'knowledge' from apocryphal books (not even accepted by the jews as they were entrusted with the very words of God-Romans 3:2), then its understandable how you even study the known bible. No need to relate it to a textbook as that is not the context of this discussion.
We understand why the bible (with no known quote from your 'literature') is no longer enough for you since you have become 'wiser' in your own sight.
I am inspired with the God-inspired books of the bible through the Holy Spirit and if that is what you call 'ignorance', so be it.

Snowwy, I think you are missing the point here. This thread is about information on Melchizedek. I never said that the current 66 books of the Bible are not sufficiently inspired and the Book of Enoch is not where "I get my knowledge" as you say. I refuse to be drawn into a debate with you over the validity of books whether they are in the mainstream Bible or not. You can do the research for yourself and find out about all manner of "Books" even ones that are mentioned in your Bible but are NOT in your Bible. So stop acting like I just waved a fetish stick at you and go get some knowledge.

Nuff Said!

Very funny thread. Unbelievers are always joined together in unbelief.

KunleOshob:

@pastor joe
That is the problem with you penterascal preachers, your theology is soooo poor and twisted. The Old testament was not cannonized till between the year 90AD and the year 100AD long after the death, resurrection and ascension of christ. That aside the book of enoch was one of the scriptures used by the early church, Paul made a reference to it in one of his letters

You that your theology is "soooo rich and straightened".  Can you tell us where Paul made a reference to the book of Enoch?

Joagbaje:

@Greybeard
We can read any book , the book by Josephus gave some lights historically for example. But one has to be careful about books that are contrary to the bible .As we know, it is the oldest book in human history and yet more current then tommorow newspaper.

Fair enough. But what book did you use to arrive at your conclusion in your quote below:

Joagbaje:

The plurality and repect is revealed in the name Elohim. But the word "us" or "our" was not in the original manuscript.

http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/melchizedek.html

Happy Reading 

Grey Beard:

http://www.marquette.edu/maqom/melchizedek.html

Happy Reading

Read your Bible!

@olaadegbu

As I said earlier information available in the canonised is to limited to write a dissertation on Melchizedek or reach any meaningful conclusions about him.

In the book of Jude verses 14 & 15 Paul attributed a prophecy to Enoch. This prophecy was quoted from the book of Enoch and note from any of the books canonised by the catholic church.

KunleOshob:

@olaadegbu

As I said earlier information available in the canonised is to limited to write a dissertation on Melchizedek or reach any meaningful conclusions about him.

In the book of Jude verses 14 & 15 Paul attributed a prophecy to Enoch. This prophecy was quoted from the book of Enoch and note from any of the books canonised by the catholic church.

And you have proof from your so called sources that it was Paul who wrote the epistle of Jude?

^^^

Okay Paul didn't write the book of Jude, it was written by Jude himself, how does that detract from the point I raised that the early christians considered the book of enoch scripture and even quoted from it in a canonised book of the bible?

KunleOshob:

^^^

Okay Paul didn't write the book of Jude, it was written by Jude himself, how does that detract from the point I raised that the early christians considered the book of enoch scripture and even quoted from it in a canonised book of the bible?

Talking about Paul, the fact that Paul quoted Greek poets in his address at Mars Hill in Athens (Acts 17), does that qualify the rest of poets as being inspired?  The Inclusion of Jude's quotation of Enoch in a canonical work does not qualify the rest of the book of Enoch to be part of the canon of Scripture.  What it proves is that this individual prophecy (Enoch 1:9) is inspired, but it is not possible therefore to assume inspiration of any of the rest of the book.

Pastor olaadegbu, on whose authority do you determine that the rest of the book of enoch is not inspired? Is it the discredited catholic church that was playing politics with religion or is it emperor Constantine who approved the canonised books? Why is the ethopian church which predates the catholic church still using the book of enoch today? You started this thread about the order of Melchizedek, I only pointed out to you that biblical information on him is too scanty for you to make any accurate conclusion. I also pointed out some errors and faulty assumptions you made which amounts to twisting of scripture. Greybeard as suggested other credible sources were you can learn much more about your subject and reach more informed conclusions but you waive it off just becos the catholic church[which you disdain] refused to canonize the book of enoch. Why are you soo narrow minded and incapable of learning.

KunleOshob:

Pastor olaadegbu, on whose authority [b]do you determine that the rest of the book of enoch is not inspired? Is it the discredited catholic church that was playing politics with religion [/b]or is it emperor Constantine who approved the canonised books? Why is the ethopian church which predates the catholic church still using the book of enoch today? You started this thread about the order of Melchizedek, I only pointed out to you that biblical information on him is too scanty for you to make any accurate conclusion. I also pointed out some errors and faulty assumptions you made which amounts to twisting of scripture. Greybeard as suggested other credible sources were you can learn much more about your subject and reach more informed conclusions but you waive it off just becos the catholic church[which you disdain] refused to canonize the book of enoch. Why are you soo narrow minded and incapable of learning.   

This is a very serious misunderstanding that leads people into error! The catholic Church (deliberate small c as opposed to the C[/b]atholic Church aka The Roman Catholic Church) [b]means the ENTIRETY of the Church of Christ ---- or  simply The Church!

In this sense the catholic Church simply means the universal church.

So in choosing the canon, the catholic Church, the universal Church, the Body of Christ, the Church of Christ is NOT discredited!

@Olaadebgu

Fair enough.  But what book did you use to arrive at your conclusion in your quote below:

Quote from: Joagbaje on January 06, 2011, 12:28 PM
The plurality and repect is revealed in the name Elohim. But the word "us" or "our" was not in the original manuscript.

You can start with a Hebrew Greek bible. Or strong Hebrew concordance.

@Mr Jo

I see you are avoiding the thread where you were telling us how you raised the dead girl

The best person to testify is the people that had their dead restored to life.I gave you a lead. But your intension is obvious to all. You are simply against miracles in the name of Jesus .Do you believe Miracles still takes place in the name of Jesus?

@Mr Jo

It is obvious now that you are a fraud and a liar - why have you abandoned the other thread!

Because your folly was revealed. There was no need to go in circles with a time waster. Abi no bi so bible talk?.

2 Timothy 2:23
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Joagbaje:

@Olaadebgu

You can start with a Hebrew Greek bible. Or strong Hebrew concordance.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth" -- Genesis 1:26

Are you saying that it means anything other than what is written here?  Let's take Genesis 1:1 for example,

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" -- Genesis 1:1

"The Hebrew for "God" is the uni-plural Elohim, a plural noun (as noted by the “im” ending), yet normally represented by a singular pronoun "He."" -- HMM

@Mr Jo

You can run, but you cant hide You are a fraudster.

EarsWide:

@Mr Jo

You can run, but you cant hide You are a fraudster.

Do you believe the Bible's claim that Jesus did not only raise Lazarus from the dead but also raised himself from the dead the third day?

@OLAADEGBU

Are you trying to compare Mr Jo (a proven fraudster & liar) to Jesus Christ? What is wrong with you people ?

EarsWide:

@OLAADEGBU

Are you trying to compare Mr Jo (a proven fraudster & liar) to Jesus Christ? What is wrong with you people ?

No. I am just trying to find out what you believe.

Enigma:

This is a very serious misunderstanding that leads people into error! The catholic Church (deliberate small c as opposed to the C[/b]atholic Church aka The Roman Catholic Church) [b]means the ENTIRETY of the Church of Christ ---- or  simply The Church!

In this sense the catholic Church simply means the universal church.

So in choosing the canon, the catholic Church, the universal Church, the Body of Christ, the Church of Christ is NOT discredited!

I'm not quite sure how you drew this conclusion Enigma  
But I think you'll find that KunleOshob was referring to the Roman Catholic Church who canonised the Bible under the leadership of Emperor Constantine beginning with the Council of Nicea in 325 AD

My guy, facts are facts  

KunleOshob:

Pastor olaadegbu, on whose authority do you determine that the rest of the book of enoch is not inspired? Is it the discredited catholic church that was playing politics with religion or is it emperor Constantine who approved the canonised books? Why is the ethopian church which predates the catholic church still using the book of enoch today?

Based on the fact that they fail the internal self-consistency test in the Bible I can say that the rest of the book of Enoch is not inspired of God.  The book of Enoch is not even among the apocryphal works used by the RCC.  No books from the official Apocrypha are quoted in the NT even though Paul and Jude quoted from other extrabiblical books.

KunleOshob:

You started this thread about the order of Melchizedek, I only pointed out to you that biblical information on him is too scanty for you to make any accurate conclusion. I also pointed out some errors and faulty assumptions you made which amounts to twisting of scripture. Greybeard as suggested other credible sources were you can learn much more about your subject and reach more informed conclusions but you waive it off just becos the catholic church[which you disdain] refused to canonize the book of enoch. Why are you soo narrow minded and incapable of learning.

Who is pandering errors and faulty assumptions and twisting the scriptures here?  If folks had taken your words that Paul wrote Jude would they not have believed an error?  Enigma pointed out to you the difference between the catholic church and the Roman catholic church that you have been mixing up, do you still know the difference.  Have you gone to find out what King of Salem means instead of Jerusalem? or you are still believing your secular and apocryphal sources over the Bible's authority?

@greybeard
Thanx for that clearification

OLAADEGBU:

No. I am just trying to find out what you believe.

He believes that Pastor Jo is a fraud, isn't that evident?

Grey Beard:

I'm not quite sure how you drew this conclusion Enigma  
But I think you'll find that KunleOshob was referring to the Roman Catholic Church who canonised the Bible under the leadership of Emperor Constantine beginning with the Council of Nicea in 325 AD

My guy, facts are facts  

Please enlighten me: let us start with the Old Testament>

Who canonised the Old Testament and when?

Was it the "discredited catholic church" that canonised the Old Testament that Jesus and the apostles used?

Grey Beard:

I'm not quite sure how you drew this conclusion Enigma 
But I think you'll find that KunleOshob was referring to the Roman Catholic Church who canonised the Bible under the leadership of Emperor Constantine beginning with the Council of Nicea in 325 AD

My guy, facts are facts 

KunleOshob:

@greybeard
Thanx for that clearification

This is a classic case of those getting their "facts" from books such as The Da Vinci Code, The Gospel of Judas, The Holy Grail and Holy Blood.

@OLAADEGBU

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth" -- Genesis 1:26

Are you saying that it means anything other than what is written here?  Let's take Genesis 1:1 for example,

But do you agree with me that "let us " was not in the original manuscript? Let's clear that first.

@Sirjohn, something just caught my eyes,
mabel has asked you before if you are earswide but you denied but see this

EarsWide:

@Mr Jo
You can run, but you cant hide You are a fraudster.

@mabell,
you can run but you cant hide, I'm still waiting for you here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-599451.128.html

You therefore are the fraudster and a crook
That just prooves that all the things you say about the healing school are false

Leave ears wide or whoever he is. His bias was clear from when he signed up this name .

Please enlighten me: let us start with the Old Testament>

Who canonised the Old Testament and when?

Was it the "discredited catholic church" that canonised the Old Testament that Jesus and the apostles used?

Scribes compiled the old testament . Before Jesus came .