Jashub:
Your post does not make sense and it is filled with half-truths that do not connect with the true attributes of Jesus.

None of those points you made refute my comment or related to ur topic of discuss concerning Jesus' identity in heaven.

Jesus is name given to him in his prehuman existence...Agreed?
It's PATENTLY clear with my points and my other brothers own that Michael the archangel is the name and role, original identity of the Lord Jesus Christ in his prehuman existence and posthuman existence

haddeylium:


None of those points you made refute my comment or related to ur topic of discuss concerning Jesus' identity in heaven.

Jesus is name given to him in his prehuman existence...Agreed?
It's PATENTLY clear with my points and my other brothers own that Michael the archangel is the name and role, original identity of the Lord Jesus Christ in his prehuman existence and posthuman existence

I posted something to earlier. Kindly read it and stop this blind argument. And in case you missed it, here it is :

The archangel Michael is simply who the Bible says he is. He is the archangel Michael. There is not a single verse of scripture that says the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.

"To which of the angels did God ever say, 'Sit at my right hand'?" -- Hebrews 1:13. Jesus could not therefore be the archangel Michael because scripture does say that Jesus will sit at the right hand of God the Father.

So from scripture, Jesus can never, ever be Michael. End of discussion.

Jashub:
I posted something to earlier. Kindly read it and stop this blind argument. And in case you missed it, here it is :

The archangel Michael is simply who the Bible says he is. He is the archangel Michael. There is not a single verse of scripture that says the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.

"To which of the angels did God ever say, 'Sit at my right hand'?" -- Hebrews 1:13. Jesus could not therefore be the archangel Michael because scripture does say that Jesus will sit at the right hand of God the Father.

So from scripture, Jesus can never, ever be Michael. End of discussion.

I like that you chose to discuss this chapters of Hebrew scriptures.
Now, open your mind, and let's examine what's the Bible saying here

Did you study other verses of this chapter?
XHebrew 1 was discussing Jesus and other Angels
Hebrews 1:4- So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

Now compare with;
Hebrews 1:9
You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

That begs the question?
Who are Jesus Companions/Peers?

[s]

haddeylium:

I like that you chose to discuss this chapters of Hebrew scriptures.
Now, open your mind, and let's examine what's the Bible saying here

Did you study other verses of this chapter?
XHebrew 1 was discussing Jesus and other Angels
Hebrews 1:4- So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

Now compare with;
Hebrews 1:9
You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

That begs the question?
Who are Jesus Companions/Peers?

[/s] I am sorry but I do not know how to "open my mind " to falsehood, especially when it comes to something that is clearly nonexistent in the Bible.

Hear is something to ponder on :
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" (Gal1:8.). I think this scripture is a warning you should heed to lest you become "accursed ".

1. Hypocrisy or dogma. Apart from Pharaoh and Herod, that no one else celebrated birthday is a fallacy. The Bible is not a history book for all events of all peoples. Bible history is a specialised history concerning events that of importance to the Covenant between God and Israel.. There is no evidence that someone, somewhere didn't celebrate birthdays in Jerusalem same day as Herod.

2. Jesus was said to have been named and buried according to Jewish tradition.

And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
Luke 2: 21

Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury. John 19: 40

The hypocrisy is the example of Pharaoh and Herod are rejected, the kind of eight day naming and burial of Jesus is not followed by Jws.

3. The early church fathers established Hermits and many of them refused to marry like Paul. If the examples of early Christians are to be followed, convince the house how you are doing that.

As it is now, even then, celebration of birthdays is a personal choice. It doesn't affect God in anyway. This is pure hypocrisy.
I will not be surprised, as in earlier conversations, to read things like, we are not to follow human example. Now these are Jesus' examples. Are you willingly rejecting his examples

4. Maximus'side and Janosky take note

There's no need worrying oneself over the topic, can't you see that i just step aside like Babangida watching the drama?

Please go and convince Kumuyi first after all he declared Christmas a Pagan custom which most of you claim you're using to celebrate Jesus' birthday!

When JWs talk you should know that our own Christianity has nothing as in no business with your own Christianity, so if your own Christianity says nothing is wrong with birthday celebration please continue with it. We'll keep our faith while you'll keep yours, we won't pester you to abandon your birthday neither will you force your birthday down our throats.
Your God will remain your God while our own God will remain our God!

MightySparrow:

1. Hypocrisy or dogma. Apart from Pharaoh and Herod, that no one else celebrated birthday is a fallacy. The Bible is not a history book for all events of all peoples. Bible history is a specialised history concerning events that of importance to the Covenant between God and Israel.. There is no evidence that someone, somewhere didn't celebrate birthdays in Jerusalem same day as Herod.
2. Jesus was said to have been named and buried according to Jewish tradition.
And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
Luke 2: 21
Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury. John 19: 40
The hypocrisy is the example of Pharaoh and Herod are rejected, the kind of eight day naming and burial of Jesus is not followed by Jws.
3. The early church fathers established Hermits and many of them refused to marry like Paul. If the examples of early Christians are to be followed, convince the house how you are doing that.
As it is now, even then, celebration of birthdays is a personal choice. It doesn't affect God in anyway. This is pure hypocrisy.
I will not be surprised, as in earlier conversations, to read things like, we are not to follow human example. Now these are Jesus' examples. Are you willingly rejecting his examples
4. Maximus'side and Janosky take note

MaxInDHouse:
There's no need worrying oneself over the topic, can't you see that i just step aside like Babangida watching the drama?

Please go and convince Kumuyi first after all he declared Christmas a Pagan custom which most of you claim you're using to celebrate Jesus' birthday!

When JWs talk you should know that our own Christianity has nothing as in no business with your own Christianity, so if your own Christianity says nothing is wrong with birthday celebration please continue with it. We'll keep our faith while you'll keep yours, we won't pester you to abandon your birthday neither will you force your birthday down our throats.
Your God will remain your God while our own God will remain our God!

No problems. I just want us to sift real requirements from fallacies.

It's OK some will live according to God's standard while others by worldly thinking but by their FRUITS we will all see the result! Matthew 7:16-18

MightySparrow:

No problems. I just want us to sift real requirements from fallacies.

MaxInDHouse:
Na wah o! See who i quote see who dey reply! You well so?

Its like you are having ringworm for your eyes

digitalman2811:
Jehovah's witnesses is a millenarian restorations Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity. The group reports a worldwide membership of approximately 8.7 million adherents involved in evangelism.

Here are the reasons.


1. The bible saying “the day of death is better than the day of birth" ( Luke 22:17-20 ).

2. Remember “the story of John the Baptist".and pharaoh and the cupbearer( Mark 6:21-29. ).

3. Birthday celebration have pagans root. According to funk & Wagnall’s standard dictionary of folk lore, mythology and legend, these celebrations originated from the belief that on a person's birthday, “evil spirit and influence have the opportunity to attack the celebrant” and that “the presence of the friends and expression of good wishes help to protect the celebrant".



*. The book "The lore of birthday" says that in the ancient times, birthday records were "essential for the casting of a horoscope” and remember, the reason God condemn the ancient city of Babylon was that it's inhabitants practiced astrology, which is a form of divination. ( Isaiah 47:11-15. ).

*. Based on “the mystic science of astrology" the book adds that " birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes". The bible however condemn the use of magic, divination, etc. ( Deu18:14 ).


4. The early Christian's did not celebrate birthdays. the world book encyclopedia says that “they considered the celebration of anyone's birth to be a pagans custom.

(5) Jesus Christ, who's lifestyle they endeavor to emulate, never celebrated his birthday nor his disciples after his death

Interview with a Jehovah's witnesses boy of 12 years old.
*. Do you feel deprived for never celebrating your birthday for once? , He said "it's more fun getting a gift when you're least expecting it".

Until they can prove that the day Jesus was born is bad.

Simple comparison between two things. Since one is better definitely the other is good. How did it become bad all of a sudden is another mystery

Dem no do adjective of comparison for school?

MaxInDHouse:
It's OK some will live according to God's standard while others by worldly thinking but by their FRUITS we will all see the result! Matthew 7:16-18

Fallacies from standards, no matter how you want to paint it, or justify your choice belief.

MightySparrow:
1. Hypocrisy or dogma. Apart from Pharaoh and Herod, that no one else celebrated birthday is a fallacy. The Bible is not a history book for all events of all peoples. Bible history is a specialised history concerning events that of importance to the Covenant between God and Israel.. There is no evidence that someone, somewhere didn't celebrate birthdays in Jerusalem same day as Herod.

2. Jesus was said to have been named and buried according to Jewish tradition.

And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
Luke 2: 21

Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury. John 19: 40

The hypocrisy is the example of Pharaoh and Herod are rejected, the kind of eight day naming and burial of Jesus is not followed by Jws.

3. The early church fathers established Hermits and many of them refused to marry like Paul. If the examples of early Christians are to be followed, convince the house how you are doing that.

As it is now, even then, celebration of birthdays is a personal choice. It doesn't affect God in anyway. This is pure hypocrisy.
I will not be surprised, as in earlier conversations, to read things like, we are not to follow human example. Now these are Jesus' examples. Are you willingly rejecting his examples

4. Maximus'side and Janosky take note

The celebration of the anniversary of one's birth is a phenomenon of modern industrial society. It is connected to the rise of a scientific way of thinking and to new attitudes about children and childhood. Perfection of the calendar by the Egyptians and Mesopotamians enabled people to reckon exact birth dates, but ancient and classical cultures rarely celebrated birthdays, except for those of royalty. The early Catholic Church deemed birthday festivities to be pagan; [/b]more important was the name day, the commemoration of the patron saint whose name was attached to a child upon baptism. After the Protestant Reformation, Western cultures celebrated birthdays of royalty, presidents, and war heroes, but common folk seldom used the occasion of their own birth for special notice.
Many historical sources show that Christmas was not observed by Christians from Christ's time to about AD 300. Saturnalia (December 17-24) and Brumalia (December 25) continued as pagan celebrations by the Romans well into the fourth century. [b]The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, in the article "Natal Day," records that the early Catholic church father, Origen, acknowledged:

In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners like Pharaoh and Herod who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world.

During the fourth century, the emperor Constantine "converted" to "Christianity" and changed Sabbath keeping from the seventh to the first day of the week. Sunday was the day he had worshipped the sun as his god. This made it easier for the Romans to call their pagan December 25th winter solstice festival, in which they had celebrated the birth of the sun god, the birthday of the "Son of God."

The New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, says:

According to the hypothesis . . . accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the Invincible Sun). On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome.

Only in the fifth century did the Roman Catholic Church order that the birth of Christ be observed on December 25, the day of the old Roman feast of the birth of Sol, the sun god. They renamed this day "Christmas."
Source New Catholic's encyclopedia 1967

digitalman2811:

The celebration of the anniversary of one's birth is a phenomenon of modern industrial society. It is connected to the rise of a scientific way of thinking and to new attitudes about children and childhood. Perfection of the calendar by the Egyptians and Mesopotamians enabled people to reckon exact birth dates, but ancient and classical cultures rarely celebrated birthdays, except for those of royalty. The early Catholic Church deemed birthday festivities to be pagan; [/b]more important was the name day, the commemoration of the patron saint whose name was attached to a child upon baptism. After the Protestant Reformation, Western cultures celebrated birthdays of royalty, presidents, and war heroes, but common folk seldom used the occasion of their own birth for special notice.
Many historical sources show that Christmas was not observed by Christians from Christ's time to about AD 300. Saturnalia (December 17-24) and Brumalia (December 25) continued as pagan celebrations by the Romans well into the fourth century. [b]The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, in the article "Natal Day," records that the early Catholic church father, Origen, acknowledged:

In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners like Pharaoh and Herod who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world.

During the fourth century, the emperor Constantine "converted" to "Christianity" and changed Sabbath keeping from the seventh to the first day of the week. Sunday was the day he had worshipped the sun as his god. This made it easier for the Romans to call their pagan December 25th winter solstice festival, in which they had celebrated the birth of the sun god, the birthday of the "Son of God."

The New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, says:

According to the hypothesis . . . accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the Invincible Sun). On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome.

Only in the fifth century did the Roman Catholic Church order that the birth of Christ be observed on December 25, the day of the old Roman feast of the birth of Sol, the sun god. They renamed this day "Christmas."
Source New Catholic's encyclopedia 1967

Which Bible passages dictate the type of wedding to do? The way to bury,? Feasts are made in the scriptures for reasons not mentioned. Are these real things or fallacies. There was a time television was devil's s box. Bend down boutique was for saints, weddings were conducted like funeral services.

All manners of man made laws and inferences. So because Catholic church declared birthday to be pagan practice, so what? Is that a doctrine. Wearing of white garment a doctrine, non wearing of shoes a doctrine.


Mourning of Jephthah's daughter yearly, Yom Kippur, were never criticised by any prophets.

While I agree that some of these can be curtailed to curb excesses, no clear commandments on them.


And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.
Luke 6:29;

But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
Luke 14:13
The first one feast was made for Jesus, the second, Jesus counsels on feast. What is a feast what are they made for. Mind you, personal feast, whatever they are made for not mentioned.
The wedding at Cana, where wine finished was not actually Commanded anywhere that feasting should follow wedding. Yet, Jesus was invited and attended. I was in a church where feasting after wedding ceremony was worldly. Fallacy or fact of Christianity?
Does the scriptures really condemn birthday and anniversaries, wedding, graduation, retirement Thanksgiving feast. Especially, birthday, I can't see any scriptural evidence or Commandment against it. I have never celebrated one, at times I forget the date self and my children, bank, Facebook friends would remind and send comments, some of which I don't read. Yet, I insist, no clear commandments on birthday but conjectures.

I've told you times without number that the God you're serving totally differ from mine, but perhaps i need to iron out some facts on the matter.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES aren't people who just wake up, choose one religion out of the existing religions around them and start associating, that is why it's difficult for many like you to understand us. You CHOOSE which of the religious groups around you that fits your innate desire so whenever you see people practicing some other forms of worship you assume that they just CHOOSE the same way you did.
But JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are not like that we examine critically all the forms of worship around us before we go for the one we are sure that is of the true God and everyday of our lives we keep working hard {Luke 13:24} to transform ourselves so as to FIT IN to pure worship! Ephesians 4:24
So your thinking and our thinking will never coincide {Luke 16:26} because you are not ready to change rather you just want to flow along with everyone else around you while we on the other hand are ever ready to make needed changes anytime we get the latest information.
If you must know, that is the main reason why you are seeing exjws around you, these ones were born by Witnesses and as they grow they discovered that they need to continue washing their robes {Revelations 7:14} but they're seeing other people around them making no such attempt nor stressing themselves yet claiming worshipers of God, so they decide to leave this continuous exertion {Matthew 11:12} for the easy way of life where they can always switch to any lane of their choice! Matthew 7:13-14
What baffles me is how they'll start accusing us when we stop associating with them since they're no more members of our spiritual family with whom we can rub minds! 2John 10-11
So my friend MightySparrow it's not about CHOICE but what God wants!

MightySparrow:

Fallacies from standards, no matter how you want to paint it, or justify your choice belief.

MaxInDHouse:

I really feel for you my dear friend because you've responded more than six times on the topic yet you said:



So do you still remember the difference between PRAYER and ARGUMENT?
Because to me it's like saying "Please you're much better scholars than all other religionsts and i know you guys are fully competent and completely equipped in defending your faith with the scriptures but i just feel you guys are wrong cos everyone i know keep saying you guys are wrong"

You've said nothing reasonable.

The guy you quoted floored your guy in the arguments already.

He first said what he said because he knows you guys minds are already programmed by the watchtower.
Watchtower does all the reasoning and searches for you guys, then send their so called revelation across the globe. None of you questions anything that comes from there and you take whatever is pushed to you just like that.

When the guy you quoted had a rethink to answer your fellow witness he definitely floored him with biblical references.

You guys are arrogant upon what you are not allowed to find out yourself.

MaxInDHouse:
You said you can't argue with JWs but pray for them yet you've made up to seven responses all arguments NO PRAYER!
So think about the highlighted, are you praying for them or ARGUING with them?

Guy face his points why Jesus is not Michael and stop derailing the thread .

You guys think you know while you know nothing.
All what you brag about is what Watchtower filled your skulls with and not what you found out yourself.

Jashub:
I never said that. Better check and see who made that comment.

Even if you said that and had a rethink, is there anything wrong in that? Let him face the point of argument and not be looking for excuses.

You are doing well bro.

digitalman2811:

Michael, referred to by some religions as “Saint Michael,” is evidently a name given to Jesus before and after his life on earth. * Michael disputed with Satan after the death of Moses and helped an angel deliver God’s message to the prophet Daniel(Daniel 10:13, 21; Jude 9) Michael lives up to the meaning of his name​—(“Who Is Like God?”​)—by defending God’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies.​—Daniel 12:1; Revelation 12:7.

Consider why it is reasonable to conclude that Jesus is the archangel Michael.

Michael is “the archangel.” (Jude 9) The title “archangel,” meaning “chief of the angels,” appears in only two Bible verses. In both cases, the word is singular, suggesting that only one angel bears that title. One of those verses states that the resurrected Lord Jesus “will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” (NOTE)not like an arch angel voice(1 Thessalonians 4:​16) Jesus has “an archangel’s voice” because he is the archangel, Michael.

Michael commands an angelic army. “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon,” Satan. (Note)we all know Jesus and his angels drove Satan out of heaven(Revelation 12:7) Michael has great authority in the spirit realm, for he is called “one of the foremost princes” and “the great prince.” (Daniel 10:13, 21; 12:1) These titles designate Michael as “the commander-in-chief of the angelic forces,” as New Testament scholar David E. Aune puts it.

The Bible mentions only one other name of someone having authority over an army of angels. It describes “the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance.” (2 Thessalonians 1:​7, 8; Matthew 16:27) Jesus “went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.” (1 Peter 3:​21, 22) It would not make sense for God to set up Jesus and Michael as rival commanders of the holy angels. Rather, it is more reasonable to conclude that both names, Jesus and Michael, refer to the same person.

Why do you borther yourself with concluding. Does your concluding mean you are absolutely right?

In this single post you have used the word conclude how many times. Do you know if you conclude on a matter, it doesn't make your conclusion 100% right?
Conclusion means you are arriving at an agreement that "this" must be.

The same way the Watchtower concluded that the world was ending in 1914. And the news was circulated worldwide. Just to realize the world would experience 2021.
Your conclusion that time was believed by many of Witnesses but here we are.

Guy keep concluding. Your eyes will clear when you discover that Jesus is Jesus and Angel Michael is Michael.

Lol

MaxInDHouse:
I've told you times without number that the God you're serving totally differ from mine, but perhaps i need to iron out some facts on the matter.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES aren't people who just wake up, choose one religion out of the existing religions around them and start associating, that is why it's difficult for many like you to understand us. You CHOOSE which of the religious groups around you that fits your innate desire so whenever you see people practicing some other forms of worship you assume that they just CHOOSE the same way you did.
But JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are not like that we examine critically all the forms of worship around us before we go for the one we are sure that is of the true God and everyday of our lives we keep working hard {Luke 13:24} to transform ourselves so as to FIT IN to pure worship! Ephesians 4:24
So your thinking and our thinking will never coincide {Luke 16:26} because you are not ready to change rather you just want to flow along with everyone else around you while we on the other hand are ever ready to make needed changes anytime we get the latest information.
If you must know, that is the main reason why you are seeing exjws around you, these ones were born by Witnesses and as they grow they discovered that they need to continue washing their robes {Revelations 7:14} but they're seeing other people around them making no such attempt nor stressing themselves yet claiming worshipers of God, so they decide to leave this continuous exertion {Matthew 11:12} for the easy way of life where they can always switch to any lane of their choice! Matthew 7:13-14
What baffles me is how they'll start accusing us when we stop associating with them since they're no more members of our spiritual family with whom we can rub minds! 2John 10-11
So my friend MightySparrow it's not about CHOICE but what God wants!

.All the same, your have not made any references to any commandment on the issue of birthdays. Christening, burial, wedding rites . All the practices and avoidance are based on GB conjectures. Separate real from fallacies. The children of Israel stood before 'standards' flag of each, theirtribes under the supervision of God. When God himself was the one given direct instructions to Moses.


And the children of Israel did according to all that the Lord commanded Moses: so they pitched by their standards, and so they set forward, every one after their families, according to the house of their fathers.
Numbers 2: 34

You won't allow people to have peace.. You defend your organisation as if you don't live among us and the naked hypocrisies. Why do I need to change to delusion. You are just an image maker like Lie Mohammed.

I serve Jehovah, no doctrinal harassments, we read the same Bible. Do invite me to fallacies and delusion.

I asked you to give definition of truth, you dodge.

All is well so far you're aware that my God differs from yours i'm cool!

MightySparrow:

All the same, your have not made any references to any commandment on the issue of birthdays. Christening, burial, wedding rites . All the practices and avoidance are based on GB conjectures. Separate real from fallacies. The children of Israel stood before 'standards' flag of them tribes under the supervision of God. When God himself was the one given direct instructions to Moses.
And the children of Israel did according to all that the Lord commanded Moses: so they pitched by their standards, and so they set forward, every one after their families, according to the house of their fathers.
Numbers 2: 34
You won't allow people to have peace.. You defend your organisation as if you don't live among us and the naked hypocrisies. Why do I need to change to delusion. You are just an image make like Lie Mohammed.
I serve Jehovah, no doctrinal harassments, we read the same Bible. Do invite me to fallacies and delusion.
I asked you to give definition of truth, you dodge.

The topic of discussion is "Birthday celebration" and so far so good no servant of the most high God ever celebrated his or her birthday in the Bible, that's enough for me.
You have your form of Christianity and from all indication differ from mine so keep your faith and i'll surely keep mine Sir!

PenName55:

Guy face his points why Jesus is not Michael and stop derailing the thread .
You guys think you know while you know nothing.
All what you brag about is what Watchtower filled your skulls with and not what you found out yourself.

MaxInDHouse:
All is well so far you're aware that my God differs from yours i'm cool!

Your choice of believe and dogma ate what differ. There is only one God.
Your perception of God and interpretation you choose to esteem are what differ. No qualms. In Jesus time, there were Sadducees, Pharisees, etc, you only add another dimension to the whole lot. These groups were harassing people then, each with their perception, interpretation, and choice practices.

So brother continue to bask in your GB delusion. I free my mind from ironclad fallacious rules and doctrines

Cheers

I keep telling you but you always forget that you are not my brother but neighbour and as for the issue of God Apostle Paul made it clear that there are lots of Gods and Lords but as for his own group (Christians) their God is One! 1Corinthians 8:5-6
Automatically each group has a separate spirit being (God) they're worshiping that's why there is contradictions, where people worship the same SPIRIT there will be oneness of thought! 1Corinthians 1:10
You may be blinded to this fact but any right thinking person will know that Deeperlife and RCCG can't be worshiping the same spirit yet a minister in RCCG can't serve in Deeperlife!
You said you're a son of a babalawo but you never took note of certain necessary issues you were never the studious type. Have you ever noticed an ifa priest from Oyo or Ekiti or Cotonou who can't be allowed to officiate in Brazil under the same spirit?

MightySparrow:

Your choice of believe and dogma ate what differ. There is only one God.
Your perception of God and interpretation you choose to esteem are what differ. No qualms. In Jesus time, there were Sadducees, Pharisees, etc, you only add another dimension to the whole lot. These groups were harassing people then, each with their perception, interpretation, and choice practices.

So brother neighbour continue to bask in your GB delusion. I free my mind from ironclad fallacious rules and doctrines

Cheers

[quote author=MightySparrow post=100322253]



Which Bible passages dictate the type of wedding to do? The way to bury,? Feasts are made in the scriptures for reasons not mentioned. Are these real things or fallacies. There was a time television was devil's s box. Bend down boutique was for saints, weddings were conducted like funeral services.

All manners of man made laws and inferences. So because Catholic church declared birthday to be pagan practice, so what? Is that a doctrine. Wearing of white garment a doctrine, non wearing of shoes a doctrine.


Mourning of Jephthah's daughter yearly, Yom Kippur, were never criticised by any prophets.

While I agree that some of these can be curtailed to curb excesses, no clear commandments on them.


And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.
Luke 6:29;

But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
Luke 14:13
The first one feast was made for Jesus, the second, Jesus counsels on feast. What is a feast what are they made for. Mind you, personal feast, whatever they are made for not mentioned.
The wedding at Cana, where wine finished was not actually Commanded anywhere that feasting should follow wedding. Yet, Jesus was invited and attended. I was in a church where feasting after wedding ceremony was worldly. Fallacy or fact of Christianity?
Does the scriptures really condemn birthday and anniversaries, wedding, graduation, retirement Thanksgiving feast. Especially, birthday, I can't see any scriptural evidence or Commandment against it. I have never celebrated one, at times I forget the date self and my children, bank, Facebook friends would remind and send comments, s

How Did The Tradition of Birthdays Begin?
Have you ever wondered where the celebration of birthdays started? In the simplest of terms, it’s a time for friends and family to come together and celebrate you, the anniversary of your birth, and another year of your life under your belt.

But there’s so much more to it than that.

It’s been constantly evolving throughout, turning into what we know it to be today. This widely used tradition started somewhere and that’s what we are looking to uncover here today.

We’ve pieced together the hypotheses of several historians, making this one huge piece of our culture a little bit more comprehensible.

Here’s what we know:

1. Birthdays didn’t begin until calendars were created.
Early civilizations had no way to keep track of time other than by using the moon, sun, or some other important event. This made it difficult for them to pay attention to the anniversary of a person’s birth.

As time went on, everyone realized that they all experienced the effects of aging, they just didn’t have a means to mark a special milestone for it.

It wasn’t until ancient people began taking note of the moon’s cycles that they began paying attention to the change in seasons as well. They also noticed this pattern repeated itself over and over again. They began marking these changes in time.

This is what bore the first calendars, which marked time changes and other special days. From this type of tracking system came the ability to celebrate birthdays and other significant events and anniversaries each year.

2. It all started with the Egyptians.
Scholars who study the Bible say that the earliest mention of a birthday was around 3,000 B.C.E. and was in reference to a Pharaoh’s birthday. But further study implies that this was not their birth into the world, but their “birth” as a god.

When Egyptian pharaohs were crowned in ancient Egypt, they were considered to have transformed into gods. This was a moment in their lives that became more important than even their physical birth.

Pagans, such as the ancient Greeks, believed that each person had a spirit that was present on the day of his or her birth. This spirit kept watch and had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday that particular individual was born.

3. You can thank Greeks for all those birthday candles.
Gods and goddesses were a huge part of Greek culture. Greeks offered many tributes and sacrifices to appease these gods. The lunar goddess, Artemis, was no different.

As a tribute to her, the Greeks would offer up moon-shaped cakes adorned with lit candles to recreate the glowing radiance of the moon and Artemis’ perceived beauty. The candles also symbolized the sending of a signal or prayer. Blowing out the candles with a wish is another way of sending that message to the gods.

4. Birthdays first started as a form of protection.
It is assumed that the Greeks adopted the Egyptian tradition of celebrating the “birth” of a god. They, like many other pagan cultures, thought that days of major change, such as these “birth” days, welcomed evil spirits. They lit candles in response to these spirits almost as if they represented a light in the darkness. This implies that birthday celebrations started as a form of protection.

In addition to candles, friends and family would gather around the birthday person and protect them from harm with good cheers, thoughts, and wishes. They would give gifts to bring even more good cheer that would ward off evil spirits. Noisemakers were also used to scare away the unwanted evil.

5. The ancient Romans were the first to celebrate the birth of the common “man.”
This seems to be the first time in history where a civilization celebrated the birth of non-religious figures. Regular Roman citizens would celebrate the birthdays of their friends and family members. The government, however, created public holidays in honor of more famous citizens.

Any Roman turning 50 years old would receive a special cake baked with wheat flour, olive oil, grated cheese, and honey. But an important thing to note is that only men would experience this birthday celebration. Female birthdays were not celebrated until about the 12th century.

6. Birthdays were first considered to be a pagan ritual in Christian culture.
In Christianity, it is believed that all people are born with “original sin.” That, in combination with early birthdays being tied to pagan gods, led Christians to consider birthdays to be celebrations of evil. This lasted for the first few hundred years of the existence of the Christian Church.

It wasn’t until the 4th century that Christians abandoned that way of thinking and began celebrating the birth of Jesus, also know as Christmas. Celebrating the birth of Jesus was partly enacted to recruit those who already celebrated Saturnalia, the Roman holiday.

7. German bakers invented the birthday cake as we know it today.
At this point, birthdays had been celebrated around the world, even in China, where a child’s first birthday was more special than most.

Kinderfeste, which started in the late 18th century, was the name for a German birthday party that is closest to today’s style of parties. This party was held for German kids, or “kinder,” and featured a birthday cake adorned with candles.

Kids were given one candle atop the cake for each year they had been alive, plus one for the hope of living for at least one more year. Blowing out these candles while making a wish was a big part of these celebrations

Somehow this post on "birthday celebration" veered into a discussion of Michael the archangel.

The JWs in the house think they have given strong biblical proofs to support their claim that michael the archangel is jesus.

Well, what does the atheist me know about such discussions.
I can only say that JWs have given michael the archangel different identities since they started.

Number 1
first they said michael the archangel was definitely not jesus, but simply an angel who even worshiped jesus.
This they stated in their journal, Zion's Watch Tower 1879 Nov p.4.
Of course, they quoted scripture to support this claim, including Heb 1:6 which says in part "Let all the angels of God worship him". In their arguments they said, all the angels that were commanded to worship jesus included the archangel, so the archangel cannot be jesus.

Number 2
Not long after, they swift gears, and said michael the archangel is the pope. their arguments can be found in Zion's Watch Tower 1879 December p.6

Number 3
They switched gears again not long after, and said michal was the pre-human jesus
first it was a cautious. with statements like: Can it be that he [/b]who was called Michael--Jehovah's chief-messenger--was none other than our Lord in his pre-human condition? we conclude that [b]HE must have been "chief messenger."
For their supposedly scriptural backing for this new claim, see Zion's Watch Tower 1883 June p.3

Number 4
Not long after, they did a reverse. the archangel now went back to being the pope. This is stated in their book: The Finished Mystery 1917 p.188

Number 5
Then they moved again, and said michael the archangel is the heavenly name of jesus. This new view was first taught in their journal Watchtower 1984 December 15 p.26. this view the have maintained.

So when JW fling out verses of the bible as scriptural proofs for their "michael the archangel is jesus" argument, they sincerely feel they are correct, and they wonder why other people cannot see those verses as the JWs see them.
They forget (or choose to ignore) that they also flung out bible verses as scriptural evidence when they were teaching that michael the archangel is "the pope", and "just an angel that is not jesus", etc.
Using what i call "bible gymnastics", and clever interpretations, desired explanations can be squeezed from almost any Scripture. Yes, the JW can come out tommorow saying michael the archangel is Buhari, and bible verses can be flung out as scriptural evidence.

what do i know! i am just a senseless atheist

eomajeh:
Somehow this post on "birthday celebration" veered into a discussion of Michael the archangel.
The JWs in the house think they have given strong biblical proofs to support their claim that michael the archangel is jesus.
Well, what does the atheist me know about such discussions.
I can only say that JWs have given michael the archangel different identities since they started.
Number 1
first they said michael the archangel was definitely not jesus, but simply an angel who even worshiped jesus.
This they stated in their journal, Zion's Watch Tower 1879 Nov p.4.
Of course, they quoted scripture to support this claim, including Heb 1:6 which says in part "Let all the angels of God worship him". In their arguments they said, all the angels that were commanded to worship jesus included the archangel, so the archangel cannot be jesus.
Number 2
Not long after, they swift gears, and said michael the archangel is the pope. their arguments can be found in Zion's Watch Tower 1879 December p.6
Number 3
They switched gears again not long after, and said michal was the pre-human jesus
first it was a cautious. with statements like: Can it be that he [/b]who was called Michael--Jehovah's chief-messenger--was none other than our Lord in his pre-human condition? we conclude that [b]HE must have been "chief messenger."
For their supposedly scriptural backing for this new claim, see Zion's Watch Tower 1883 June p.3
Number 4
Not long after, they did a reverse. the archangel now went back to being the pope. This is stated in their book: The Finished Mystery 1917 p.188
Number 5
Then they moved again, and said michael the archangel is the heavenly name of jesus. This new view was first taught in their journal Watchtower 1984 December 15 p.26. this view the have maintained.
So when JW fling out verses of the bible as scriptural proofs for their "michael the archangel is jesus" argument, they sincerely feel they are correct, and they wonder why other people cannot see those verses as the JWs see them.
They forget (or choose to ignore) that they also flung out bible verses as scriptural evidence when they were teaching that michael the archangel is "the pope", and "just an angel that is not jesus", etc.
Using what i call "bible gymnastics", and clever interpretations, desired explanations can be squeezed from almost any Scripture.



Yes, the JW can come out tommorow saying michael the archangel is Buhari, and bible verses can be flung out as scriptural evidence.


what do i know! i am just a senseless atheist

All I can see up there is nothing but a desperate attempt in attacking a lifeless strawman. What you failed to realize is that none of Jehovah’s Witnesses will impose their teachings on anyone. Matthew 10:14
The only thing they will do is defend their faith which is in line with 1Peter 3:15 but to say that “By force, by fire you must accept” is not permitted since we recognize that everyone has a choice to make. Joshua 24:15

When a JW defends his faith, It's the authority (Bible) that's speaking {Isaiah 54:17} so critics will always feel threatened {Matthew 7:28-29} even when we're tactfully explaining things to them! 1Peter 3:15

DappaD:


All I can see up there is nothing but a desperate attempt in attacking a lifeless strawman. What you failed to realize is that none of Jehovah’s Witnesses will impose their teachings on anyone. Matthew 10:14
The only thing they will do is defend their faith which is in line with 1Peter 3:15 but to say that “By force, by fire you must accept” is not permitted since we recognize that everyone has a choice to make. Joshua 24:15

Afamsi:
8.9 million souls heading to the lake of fire. May God deliver this captives of Satan in Jesus Christ name.

You and Jashub are just DECEIVING yourselves. 3 dogheads devotees

Janosky:


You and Jashub are just DECEIVING yourselves. 3 dogheads devotees

I would rather be deceived by the Trinity doctrine than accept the hogwash of the Charles Russell Tuze. And by the way, I hope the status of Jesus is still angel Michael and not the Son of God as in your bible

Jashub:
The archangel Michael is simply who the Bible says he is. He is the archangel Michael. There is not a single verse of scripture that says the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.

"To which of the angels did God ever say, 'Sit at my right hand'?" -- Hebrews 1:13. Jesus could not therefore be the archangel Michael because scripture does say that Jesus will sit at the right hand of God the Father. This is something simple and straightforward but you can continue in living in denial.

Bros why you dey DECEIVE yourself?

Archangel means leader of Angels.
Matthew 25:31, in your Bible is Jesus Christ the leader of Angels?

Genesis 3:15 ,1 John 3:8, Rev 12:7-9, in your Bible who defeated the devil ?

1Thessalonians 4:16, John 5:26-28, in your Bible whose voice resurrects the dead ?

[s]

Janosky:


Bros why you dey DECEIVE yourself?

Archangel means leader of Angels.
Matthew 25:31, in your Bible is Jesus Christ the leader of Angels?

Genesis 3:15 ,1 John 3:8, Rev 12:7-9, in your Bible who defeated the devil ?

1Thessalonians 4:16, John 5:26-28, in your Bible whose voice resurrects the dead ?

[/s] Nowhere in the Bible is it written that Jesus is the archangel Michael. So who is deceiving whom...? Abi do I look like that grumpy demented Charles Russell Tuze...

[s]

Janosky:


Bros why you dey DECEIVE yourself?

Archangel means leader of Angels.
Matthew 25:31, in your Bible is Jesus Christ the leader of Angels?

Genesis 3:15 ,1 John 3:8, Rev 12:7-9, in your Bible who defeated the devil ?

1Thessalonians 4:16, John 5:26-28, in your Bible whose voice resurrects the dead ?

[/s]The archangel Michael is simply who the Bible says he is. He is the archangel Michael. There is not a single verse of scripture that says the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.

Read it and weep :

"To which of the angels did God ever say, 'Sit at my right hand'?" -- Hebrews 1:13. Jesus could not therefore be the archangel Michael because scripture does say that Jesus will sit at the right hand of God the Father. This is something simple and straightforward but you can continue in living in denial.