I really do not see the moral ground to become a Christian or a Muslim.

What is it that I do that religious people don’t do on moral grounds?

Fornication
Lying
Killing
Adultery
Coveting
Etc

Religious people, especially Christians are As sinful as an average atheist and when they do it they hide under the tone of grace to commit everything they preach against.

I do not see any reason to want to live the life of a Christian or Muslim, it’s a hypocritical life and they are not good standard for morality. Just take a good look around you and observe the so called religious people, do they live an exemplary moral lifestyle?
Majority of them do not? Nowadays even full time prostitutes are religious

Workch:
I really do not see the moral ground to become a Christian or a Muslim.

What is it that I do that religious people don’t do on moral grounds?

Your plan was to attempt religion plainly for moral reasons?

Kobojunkie:
Your plan was to attempt religion plainly for moral reasons?

Not really, I’m trying to let people see that religion is not the bane of morality, religion hijacked morality and you can’t sell religion on the basis of morality. And even on the basis of morality, religious people are not good examples for morality.

If you need to believe in God to know that killing someone is bad then that’s definitely psychopathy.

Workch:
Not really, I’m trying to let people see that religion is not the bane of morality, religion hijacked morality and you can’t sell religion on the basis of morality. And even on the basis of morality, religious people are not good examples for morality.

If you need to believe in God to know that killing someone is bad then that’s definitely psychopathy.

I see what you mean.

Workch:
I really do not see the moral ground to become a Christian or a Muslim.

What is it that I do that religious people don’t do on moral grounds?

Fornication
Lying
Killing
Adultery
Coveting
Etc

Religious people, especially Christians are more sinful that average atheist and when they do it they hide under the tone of grace to commit everything they preach against.

I do not see any reason to want to live the life of a Christian or Muslim, it’s a hypocritical life and they are not good standard for morality. Just take a good look around you and observe the so called religious people, do they live an exemplary moral lifestyle?
Majority of them do not? Nowadays even full time prostitutes are religious

.any one can have strong moral values with discipline....and discipline can also come tru religious/ faith system....

some people don’t just take their beliefs serious... partly becos many were born into it and have no serious personal encounter or conviction..... I don’t think this should be difficult for your to understand


But Claiming Christians are sinful than atheist is just fallacy and a desperate move to invalidate the need for being a Christian...

If u feel being an atheist makes u better, enjoy ur life ...

advanceDNA:


.any one can have strong moral values with discipline....and discipline can also come tru religious/ faith system....

some people don’t just take their beliefs serious... partly becos many were born into it and have no serious personal encounter or conviction..... I don’t think this should be difficult for your to understand


But Claiming Christians are sinful than atheist is just fallacy and a desperate move to invalidate the need for being a Christian...

If u feel being an atheist makes u better, enjoy ur life ...

I strongly share your notion on the premise that morality is a factor of discipline and discipline can also be gotten from faith and beliefs. However you also refuse to account for the fact that one can get discipline outside of faith and belief system.

I am still looking for where I indicated that atheists are more moral than Christians. Maybe you should comprehend my post properly.

Workch:
I strongly share your notion on the premise that morality is a factor of discipline and discipline can also be gotten from faith and beliefs. However you also refuse to account for the fact that one can get discipline outside of faith and belief system.

I am still looking for where I indicated that atheists are more moral than Christians. Maybe you should comprehend my post properly.

Ddnt u see where I said any one can be moral by being disciplined.... and also went further that discipline can also come through faith and religious system??

So why are u still claiming I refused to account for the fact that one can get discipline outside of faith and belief system. ??

Bros..the context of second and theirs paragraph is written all over your first post...first u claim there’s no point in being Christian or religious just to be moral..u the went further that Christians do wrong than the average atheist. If fact u said majority of Christians are nothing to write home about when it comes to exemplary life style

If that’s not the height of saying atheist are morally better than Christians then I don’t know what is

advanceDNA:


Ddnt u see where I said any one can be moral by being disciplined.... and also went further that discipline can also come through faith and religious system??

So why are u still claiming I refused to account for the fact that one can get discipline outside of faith and belief system. ??

Bros..the context of second and theirs paragraph is written all over your first post...first u claim there’s no point in being Christian or religious just to be moral..u the went further that Christians do wrong than the average atheist.

If that’s not the height of saying atheist are morally better than Christians then I don’t know what is

Your first comment explains it all, you cannot sell religion on the basis of morality.

If you want to be moral, just be disciplined.

advanceDNA:
But Claiming Christians are sinful than atheist is just fallacy and a desperate move to invalidate the need for being a Christian...

Is a sinful Christian better than a sinful atheist?

Workch:
Your first comment explains it all, you cannot sell religion on the basis of morality.

If you want to be moral, just be disciplined.

Oh...u decided to jump here... no problem.. i’ll Indulge u....

First... is someone selling religion to you on the basis of morality....?I don’t know about the other side... I only know about Christiandom....

U don’t become a Christian becos u want to achieve a moral standard... u become a Christian becos u accept and believe God’s provision for salvation....

Continuing in the provision through faith is what empowers through his spirit to drop the vices you listed... ..

Like I said many don’t take their faith and walk with God seriously when they adopt the tag Christians....Just as being an atheist doesn’t automatically make you morally upright ..

Kobojunkie:
Is a sinful Christian better than a sinful atheist?

Sinful Christian
Sinful atheist
Sinful Buddhist
Sinful Muslim

They are all the same..... sinful....hearing without doing is almost not different from the person that hasn’t heard at all

Why will a Christian still consciously remain in sin?

advanceDNA:

Sinful Christian
Sinful atheist
Sinful Buddhist
Sinful Muslim

They are all the same..... sinful....hearing without doing is almost not different from the person that hasn’t heard at all

Why will a Christian still consciously remain in sin?

Whether consciously remaining in sin or not, a sinner is no better than an unbeliever or an atheist - one might say that sinner is even worse off than an unbeliever but that is discussion for another thread.

What the OP is saying is that morality is not a reasonable sales pitch when trying to sell religion to anyone given that a majority of those who have religion fail to live up to those standards set by their beliefs.

advanceDNA:



Oh...u decided to jump here... no problem.. i’ll Indulge u....

First... is someone selling religion to you on the basis of morality....?I don’t know about the other side... I only know about Christiandom....

U don’t become a Christian becos u want to achieve a moral standard... u become a Christian becos u accept and believe God’s provision for salvation....

Continuing in the provision through faith is what empowers through his spirit to drop the vices you listed... ..

Like I said many don’t take their faith and walk with God seriously when they adopt the tag Christians....Just as being an atheist doesn’t automatically make you morally upright ..

So what happens to you in the afterlife if you don’t meet the moral standards in Christianity?

Workch:
So what happens to you in the afterlife if you don’t meet the moral standards in Christianity?

There’s no how you will truly continue in faith what’ God provided that it won’t reflect in your moral standards....

Remeber I added the clause that some people don’t continue... that’s why we have people with christain tags, that kill, steal, sleep with people’s wives and husband like it’s nothing

advanceDNA:


There’s no how you will truly continue in faith what’ God provided that it won’t reflect in your moral standards....

Remeber I added the clause that some people don’t continue... that’s why we have people with christain tags, that kill, steal, sleep with people’s wives and husband like it’s nothing

Ok, you agree that there’s a moral standard in Christianity which will be achieved as result of the faith in your deity. Obviously this moral standards were set by your deity.

So on what basis should Christianity be an arbiter of morality?

What difference does it make if I attain morality outside of Christianity?

Workch:
So what happens to you in the afterlife if you don’t meet the moral standards in Christianity?

What happens to you in the meta-afterlife if you don’t meet the moral standards in Ifa philosophy?

Meta-afterlife begins when your soul dies in the afterlife.

KnownUnknown:


What happens to you in the meta-afterlife if you don’t live up to moral standards in Ifa philosophy?

Meta-afterlife begins when your soul dies in the afterlife.

Sorry, you have not answered my question.
L

Workch:
Sorry, you have not answered my question.
L

Fair enough.

Workch:
So what happens to you in the afterlife if you don’t meet the moral standards in Christianity?

Before I can answer.
What is the afterlife?
Is there a beforelife?
Where is the afterlife?

KnownUnknown:


Fair enough.



Before I can answer.
What is the afterlife?
Is there a beforelife?
Where is the afterlife?

Are these not ridiculous questions?

Workch:
Are these not ridiculous questions?

How are they ridiculous?

I don’t know what an afterlife is, so you have to clarify .

KnownUnknown:


How are they ridiculous?

I don’t know what an afterlife is, so you have to clarify .

That was why my question was not directed to you.

Workch:
I really do not see the moral ground to become a Christian or a Muslim.

What is it that I do that religious people don’t do on moral grounds?

Fornication
Lying
Killing
Adultery
Coveting
Etc

Religious people, especially Christians are As sinful as an average atheist and when they do it they hide under the tone of grace to commit everything they preach against.

I do not see any reason to want to live the life of a Christian or Muslim, it’s a hypocritical life and they are not good standard for morality. Just take a good look around you and observe the so called religious people, do they live an exemplary moral lifestyle?
Majority of them do not? Nowadays even full time prostitutes are religious

Like my mother told me "So if people throw themselves into the sea, you would follow them?"

That's why the Bible says "man is a fool but he thinks he is wise!"

Monkey See, Monkey do.

Note: True Followers of God Do Not Do Such things! They are few but they are out there!

The Bible says "if thou be wise, it is for thyself. If thou destryest thyself, it is still for thy own self"!

Workch:
Ok, you agree that there’s a moral standard in Christianity which will be achieved as result of the faith in your deity. Obviously this moral standards were set by your deity.

So on what basis should Christianity be an arbiter of morality?

What difference does it make if I attain morality outside of Christianity?

The “obviously” part of ur comment was assumed by you.... if there’s any achievement set by God in scripture ...it is love....

But the heart of man is naturally wicked.. it’s is unable to love truly without the spirit of God..

Personal moral codes cannot get a person to the level of love God desires for us..

Dtruthspeaker:


Like my mother told me "So if people throw themselves into the sea, you would follow them?"

That's why the Bible says "man is a fool but he thinks he is wise!"

Monkey See, Monkey do.

Note: True Followers of God Do Not Do Such things! They are few but they are out there!

you can also get morality outside of Christianity.

Simple

Workch:
That was why my question was not directed to you.

True. Carry on, wallow in the muck.

Workch:
you can also get morality outside of Christianity.

Simple

Morality was Created and Set by Christianity!

advanceDNA:

There’s no how you will truly continue in faith what’ God provided that it won’t reflect in your moral standards....

Remeber I added the clause that some people don’t continue... that’s why we have people with christain tags, that kill, steal, sleep with people’s wives and husband like it’s nothing

All the more reason why morality shouldn't be a major sales pitch, right?

Workch:
I really do not see the moral ground to become a Christian or a Muslim.

What is it that I do that religious people don’t do on moral grounds?

Fornication
Lying
Killing
Adultery
Coveting
Etc

Moral simply refers to that which is Right and Good and we see that all these things you listed are not Right or Good, therefore they do not do these things on Moral Grounds (Right and Good Grounds) but because like you, they do them because they like to do them, so they are Truly no different from you as you Admitted!

Workch:

Religious people, especially Christians are more sinful that average atheist

Now, you Lie for you Truthfully Admitted Earlier, that they commit the same sins as even yourself:

Workch:
What is it that I do that religious people don’t do on moral grounds?

Fornication
Lying
Killing
Adultery
Coveting
Etc

So you speak Not the Truth here!

Workch:
and when they do it they hide under the tone of grace to commit everything they preach against.

Foolish people Always think to find a Cover for their sins therefore they Abuse the Mercy and Goodness of God called Grace under which they foolishly think as you have rightly said they can hide under and to which we have severally warned them that it would not cover them for the intentional use of that which is meant for Good to do Wickedness and Wrong is Prohibited!

For the Law is "Abuse Invalidates the Use"

And as you have rightly said they have Abused it and Abuse it, therefore it shall not avail them, thus, they shall answer for all which they have done as everyone else!

Workch:

I do not see any reason to want to live the life of a Christian or Muslim, it’s a hypocritical life and they are not good standard for morality.

I can not speak for the Muslims but on persons who call themselves Christians, you have simply captured persons who claim Christians but are Not, for a Tree is known by its Fruits!

If you say you are a Christian, your fruits Must Show you are and if their Fruits are as described by you then they are no different from you as you Rightly said!

The Fruits of Good is seen and Known and they who are True Christians Exhibit it but All who Exhibit the Fruits you Listed Above, is Not of Us!

Workch:

Just take a good look around you and observe the so called religious people, do they live an exemplary moral lifestyle?
Majority of them do not? Nowadays even full time prostitutes are religious

As I said "by their Fruits you shall Know them" and you Know them as you have Truthfully Admitted that they are as you!

Workch:
.
If you need to believe in God to know that killing someone is bad then that’s definitely psychopathy.

That is the Proof that God created All for you Pre-Know According as How He has Set the world that it is Wrong to kill!

Every soul fore-knew even before their parents, teachers, neighbours taught them.

Dtruthspeaker:


Morality was Created and Set by Christianity!

ok

Kobojunkie:
All the more reason why morality shouldn't be a major sales pitch, right?

U are entitled to your opinion....but that’s not mine

advanceDNA:

The “obviously” part of ur comment was assumed by you.... if there’s any achievement set by God in scripture ...it is love....

But the heart of man is naturally wicked.. it’s is unable to love truly without the spirit of God..

Personal moral codes cannot get a person to the level of love God desires for us..

The statement in bold is not true.

The New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, comes to us with approximately 56 commandments , of which the 2 greatest are mentioned as dealing with Love. No where however does Jesus Christ state that it is ok to focus on just the two greatest commandments ,ignoring the rest. In fact, he warned against this when He declared a curse on those who would focus on some of the commandments ignoring those they consider of lesser importance to value.