thebosstrevor1:


You are the one that allowed emotions to cloud your reasoning capability.

As long as you are in Nigeria, the constitution of Nigeria supercedes your yoruba nation scam.

Open gazing is not unconstitutional neither is gazing route unconstitutional.

What is unconstitutional is not allowing people to move freely from one place to another to trade.

If you can move from one part of the country to another, every Nigerian has that right.

Will I be allowed to rear my pigs and move them on foot from Sokoto to Bauchi?

Agbegbaorogboye:


Can you show us in the constitution where this is written?

That is the problem. These guys don't follow laws. They make their own laws and follow it.

thebosstrevor1:



Laughable.

Are cows and land the same thing.

Cows are movable asset and can be moved from one place to another, land can't be moved.

When moving to a new destination, you move what is moveable and sell what you think cant be moved.

If a herdmen rents a land in another part of the country and moves his movable property like cows to the land he rented, he has not broken the law.

Cows and Land are not the same thing with respect to the constitution of Nigeria!
The constitution of Nigeria through the Land use Act places the Use of land totally in the power,control of state Government.it can determine what the land is to be used for and how it should be used!
The federal government itself does not have powers over the ownership of cows,goats,sheep,dog,pigs etc.
The constitution recognized that private individuals can own,buy and sale cows,goats,sheep and dogs even!


Now if a herdsmen wants to move his herds of cattle he cannot trespass on the use of land but he can apply to the state for the use of land

Therefore if a state says it has no land for cattle he has no choice but to move to another place

yorubarere:

Your bolded is the exact subject of discussion. Rent lands and move your business there. Feed ur cows in ur confines buy buying grasses not moving them inside bushes and people's farmlands.

Cows are attacked and burnt even when kept in rented lands in the south.

The average herder can not afford ranching, ranching is expensive, if ranching is practised, the cost of cow meat will increase by 100%

The purpose of going to the bushes is for cows to eat grasses for free.

Now trespassing on people's farm lands is illegal and even the association of fulani herdmen will compensate you if an herder trespass on farm lands.

baralatie:
That the president is making a statement for open grazing of cattle is rather an unfortunate idea.
The world's leading cattle and beef suppliers in the world do not practice open grazing!
One would have expected a more accurate plan on cattle ranching which is more profitable but when you have an agf confusing the president.this is what happens

Point of correction. The AGF never confused the President. It's actually the other way round. The president mandated him to go unearth the grazing reserve law of 1966 to put those noisy southerners in their place

thebosstrevor1:


Cows are attacked and burnt even when kept in rented lands in the south.

The average herder can not afford ranching, ranching is expensive, if ranching is practised, the cost of cow meat will increase by 100%

The purpose of going to the bushes is for cows to eat grasses for free.

Now trespassing on people's farm lands is illegal and even the association of fulani herdmen will compensate you if an herder trespass on farm lands.

All you are writing are silly excuses. If cows are expensive, people will still buy and those who can't will seek better alternatives.

How many cattle ranches were attacked in the south?

The purpose of going into bushes is to cut cost of your business at the expense of the land owners. No land whether farming or not is free land.. going on such lands to graze your cows is trespassing.

Come up with other excuses pls

The Fulanis think Buhari is doing them a favor but he is only setting them up against the masses.

thebosstrevor1:


Lets imagine, you move from osun state to ondo state according to what that poster posted, the constitution says you are not to move with your properties, you are suppose to leave your property behind and go to your new residence.

According to him, if you go with your properties, you are breaking the law.

https://www.nairaland.com/6603093/fulanis-know-these-little-facts

There's no how you will move cow without transgressing in the Southwest because every where is occupied

baralatie:

Cows and Land are not the same thing with respect to the constitution of Nigeria!
The constitution of Nigeria through the Land use Act places the Use of land totally in the power,control of state Government.it can determine what the land is to be used for and how it should be used!
The federal government itself does not have powers over the ownership of cows,goats,sheep,dog,pigs etc.
The constitution recognized that private individuals can own,buy and sale cows,goats,sheep and dogs even!


Now if a herdsmen wants to move his herds of cattle he cannot trespass on the use of land but he can apply to the state for the use of land

Therefore if a state says it has no land for cattle he has no choice but to move to another place

When you buy a dog, a goat or a chicken, do you apply for a land use act to put these animals on your land??

How come you created and spin a new law because of herders.


If a cow herders rents a land and put his cows on that land, is he the one to pay for land use.

And i dont see what law the herder has broken if he transport his cows and put it in a land in the south which he rented or owned.

Agbegbaorogboye:


Point of correction. The AGF never confused the President. It's actually the other way round. The president mandated him to go unearth the grazing reserve law of 1966 to put those noisy southerners in their place

And the gazette is for northern region in 1964 not applicable to the default West, Midwest and South east.

So the president and his subordinates are confused.

Bunch of illiterates occupying the highest seats in the lands.

omonnakoda:
Is there any property that is not private? or owned by the state government?

If you are driving your car apart from the roads can you drive your car anywhere you like?

Even quarantine laws are enough to stop the unrestricted movement of animals because they carry diseases, they defecate and urinate on the ground thereby posing a public health risk

Government has the power to licence and regulate the movement of cattle

The exact provision for freedom of movement in the constitution exists in the US but they don't have animals roaming wildly. Why not??

The guy didn't respond to any of your superior arguments. E dey avoid you like AIDS..
You must be his worst nightmare.


-Lion

yorubarere:

All you are writing are silly excuses. If cows are expensive, people will still buy and those who can't will seek better alternatives.

How many cattle ranches were attacked in the south?

The purpose of going into bushes is to cut cost of your business at the expense of the land owners. No land whether farming or not is free land.. going on such lands to graze your cows is trespassing.

Come up with other excuses pls

You claim land owners??

In the bushes, many lands have no owners and many lands have no farm on them.

Agbegbaorogboye:


Will I be allowed to rear my pigs and move them on foot from Sokoto to Bauchi?

Pigs and cows are 2 different animals.

Cows need lot of space to rear, pigs do not need space.

Between a pig cant not go by foot on a long distance, a cow can.

Most ranchers buy acres of lands because cows need lot of movement

thebosstrevor1:



You claim land owners??

In the bushes, many lands have no owners and many lands have no farm on them.

That is your ignorance. The lands either belongs to individuals or state govt. No land is free. So dead that idea.

Whether the land is developed for farming or other things or left untouch is not the discussion. Lands that doesn't belong to anyone or family belongs to the state govt.

I hope we are clear on this and you can advise your people to ranch their cows and buy grass.

thebosstrevor1:


Cows are attacked and burnt even when kept in rented lands in the south.

The average herder can not afford ranching, ranching is expensive, if ranching is practised, the cost of cow meat will increase by 100%

The purpose of going to the bushes is for cows to eat grasses for free.

Now trespassing on people's farm lands is illegal and even the association of fulani herdmen will compensate you if an herder trespass on farm lands.

Are the cows sold for free?
Buying petrol is too expensive in my opinion. The average Nigerian worker cannot afford 20L/day and people need it as a means of facilitating their right to free movement. Do you agree with this assertion?

thebosstrevor1:


Cows are attacked and burnt even when kept in rented lands in the south.

The average herder can not afford ranching, ranching is expensive, if ranching is practised, the cost of cow meat will increase by 100%

The purpose of going to the bushes is for cows to eat grasses for free.

Now trespassing on people's farm lands is illegal and even the association of fulani herdmen will compensate you if an herder trespass on farm lands.

What do you expect when your herders invade peoples' farmland , graze on their crops and when they complain they are killed. Will the people just fold their hands and do nothing

Agbegbaorogboye:


Point of correction. The AGF never confused the President. It's actually the other way round. The president mandated him to go unearth the grazing reserve law of 1966 to put those noisy southerners in their place

The funny thing is this law was meant to protect the pastoralist herdsmen in the northern region of Nigeria
He and his military governor's were the ones that suspended that constitution .
That law is not in the 1999 constitution

thebosstrevor1:


Pigs and cows are 2 different animals.

Cows need lot of space to rear, pigs do not need space.

Between a pig cant not go by foot on a long distance, a cow can.

Most ranchers buy acres of lands because cows need lot of movement

@ your bolded. Says who? I hope u saw the pig farm Aketi just opened in ondo state.

See you guys are getting left behind in scheme of things. Try to embrace 21st century in your cattle farming system and watch out for huge returns. You know how many calories cows burns running around? That could translate to more meat and milk. Ranch your cattle, feed them and give them proper hygiene and healthcare.

You will be grateful to those who advised you for that.

yorubarere:

That is your ignorance. The lands either belongs to individuals or state govt. No land is free. So dead that idea.

Whether the land is developed for farming or other things or left untouch is not the discussion. Lands that doesn't belong to anyone or family belongs to the state govt.

I hope we are clear on this and you can advise your people to ranch their cows and buy grass.

Exactly they should do away with that entitlement mentality.

yorubarere:

And the gazette is for northern region in 1964 not applicable to the default West, Midwest and South east.

So the president and his subordinates are confused.

Bunch of illiterates occupying the highest seats in the lands.

Buhari will never agree to that.

Which is why he supported Ruga and was ready to implement it at the beginning of his second term

notym2chektym:

Exactly they should do away with that entitlement mentality.

That is the problem. If their elites, buhari himself believes there are lands all over the country that should serve as grazing routes to one ethnic group (Fulani), I wonder what their low class will do. This is the entitlement they bring into people's farmlands... They will think, after all, he is farming on the lands that belongs to us.

This mentality will set up Fulani against many people and when people begin to fight back, it will be very dirty.

thebosstrevor1:


When you buy a dog, a goat or a chicken, do you apply for a land use act to put these animals on your land??

How come you created and spin a new law because of herders.


If a cow herders rents a land and put his cows on that land, is he the one to pay for land use.

And i dont see what law the herder has broken if he transport his cows and put it in a land in the south which he rented or owned.

As long as you own title recognizable by the state that you own the land and you are giving clearance to use that for the business you want you are good to go.


As long as the herder does not have title to land where he wants to rear,raise and cultivate his cattle he has trespassed!
If he transports his cattle over somebody's plot of land,farm or house to get another point .he has trespassed

thebosstrevor1:


Pigs and cows are 2 different animals.

Cows need lot of space to rear, pigs do not need space.

Between a pig cant not go by foot on a long distance, a cow can.

Most ranchers buy acres of lands because cows need lot of movement

I didn't ask for your expert advice on what pigs can do and not do. Herders also rear goats and sheep and those do not need space. All I need is a Yes or No.
Can I rear my pigs from Sokoto to Bauchi?

omonnakoda:
Is there any property that is not private? or owned by the state government?

If you are driving your car apart from the roads can you drive your car anywhere you like?

Even quarantine laws are enough to stop the unrestricted movement of animals because they carry diseases, they defecate and urinate on the ground thereby posing a public health risk

Government has the power to licence and regulate the movement of cattle

The exact provision for freedom of movement in the constitution exists in the US but they don't have animals roaming wildly. Why not??

Does your argument not support the gazing route, you claim if you are driving cars, can you drive your cars anywhere?

If there is cow route, then there will be no need for cows to go anywhere outside the gazing route.

According to your argument, all cows carry diseases, most herders are in the bushes and not in open towns, so what public health risk are you talking about.

Yes, government has the power to regulate the movement of cows, is that not what the government is doing.

Cow colony idea was brought up but because of the hatreds of fulani people they rejected it.

Cattle routes are being proposed, the people are also against it.

All these proposals were brought up to regulate herders, to protect herders from farmers and reduce the conflict but they keep rejecting it.

yorubarere:

That is the problem. If their elites, buhari himself believes there are lands all over the country that should serve as grazing routes to one ethnic group (Fulani), I wonder what their low class will do. This is the entitlement they bring into people's farmlands... They will think, after all, he is farming on the lands that belongs to us.

This mentality will set up Fulani against many people and when people begin to fight back, it will be very dirty.

They have made that statement several times that all Nigerian lands belongs to them. That's the day my hatred grew for these people. If the elites like thebosstressvor can say and reason this , what do we expect from the dumb rag tags among them. That is the problem. The fulani elites have caused serious hatred for these people with their reckless and entitlement statement

Agbegbaorogboye:


I didn't ask for your expert advice on what pigs can do and not do. Herders also rear goats and sheep and those do not need space. All I need is a Yes or No.
Can I rear my pigs from Sokoto to Bauchi?

You make no logical sense especially when you consider the difference between the 2 animals.

If you want to take your pig on a walk from sokoto to bauchi, you are free to do it.

baralatie:

As long as you own title recognizable by the state that you own the land and you are giving clearance to use that for the business you want you are good to go.


As long as the herder does not have title to land where he wants to rear,raise and cultivate his cattle he has trespassed!
If he transports his cattle over somebody's plot of land,farm or house to get another point .he has trespassed

This is where you got everything wrong.

You do not need to buy land to rear cows, you can rent lands and rear them there.

You can transport your cows to the market and put them there.

You haven't broken any law if you transport your cow over a plot of land to get to another point, after all people pass through other people land to get to a destination.

notym2chektym:

They have made that statement several times that all Nigerian lands belongs to them. That's the day my hatred grew for these people. If the elites like thebosstressvor can say and reason this , what do we expect from the dumb rag tags among them. That is the problem. The fulani elites have caused serious hatred for these people with their reckless and entitlement statement

The Fulani elite half education is what we are dealing with. If they can make moves to embrace modern ways and ranch, their rag tag militants will follow suit.

thebosstrevor1:


I am surprised that you are proud in your ignorance.

The constitution grants you the right to move to any part of the country with your properties.

Read and get some education.


Buhari Pushing 1964 Northern Nigeria Decree On Cow Grazing Route On Nigeria – Senate Spokesman.
Ajibola Basiru, spokesman for the Senate, says there is no grazing-route law in Nigeria.
Basiru said this following the statement of the President on the farmer-herder crisis.
The President while fielding questions in an interview with Arise Television on Thursday, said: “What I did was ask him (AGF) to go and dig the gazette of the first republic when people were obeying laws.
“There were cattle routes and grazing areas. Cattle routes were for when they (herders) are moving up country, north to south or east to west, they had to go through there.”
But speaking with The PUNCH, Basiru said the gazette that Buhari was referring to was a product of a decree promulgated in northern Nigeria in the 1960s, adding that the Land Use Act recognised by the constitution has rendered it ineffective.
“Nigerians should be concerned over whether the Nigerian president is actually getting the correct legal advice from his attorney-general and the legal team,” the senator said.
“As far as I am concerned, as a legal practitioner, there is nothing like grazing routes or grazing reserve law, in the laws of the federation of Nigeria. There is nothing like that.
“There is no federal legislation that the president can implement over such matter. The executive powers of the president merely rely on the powers of the National Assembly to make laws, when you look at Section 5 of the constitution.
“Any area where the National Assembly cannot make laws, and there is no express grants of powers to the president under the constitution, a purported exercise of power by the president in that regard, will be null and void because it is inconsistent with the constitution by section 1(3) of the 1999 constitution.
“I am aware that there is a northern Nigerian law on reserve and grazing routes which was promulgated by a 1964 decree by the premier of the defunct northern Nigeria region.”
The legislator said there is no way a decree for Northern Nigeria will be implemented as a federal law.
“It is not a federal law unless the legal adviser to Mr President is equating a northern Nigeria law, which is not applicable in the west, mid-west, and eastern region or in anywhere in the southern part of Nigeria, to be a federal or a Nigerian law,” he said.
“The president does not have the power to implement that law because it is not a federal law. He can only implement federal legislation made by the National Assembly or deemed to have been made by the National Assembly.
“The grazing routes law is not a National Assembly law, so there is nothing for the president to implement. It is regrettable that the president has not been properly advised by his attorney-general and the legal team.”

Copied from Dele Momodu facebook wall.
CC Yorubarere.

thebosstrevor1:


Does your argument not support the gazing route, you claim if you are driving cars, can you drive your cars anywhere?

If there is cow route, then there will be no need for cows to go anywhere outside the gazing route.

According to your argument, all cows carry diseases, most herders are in the bushes and not in open towns, so what public health risk are you talking about.

Yes, government has the power to regulate the movement of cows, is that not what the government is doing.

Cow colony idea was brought up but because of the hatreds of fulani people they rejected it.

Cattle routes are being proposed, the people are also against it.

All these proposals were brought up to regulate herders, to protect herders from farmers and reduce the conflict but they keep rejecting it.

The issue is the law as it is today.
Not MY ARGUMENT
You cannot drive your car anywhere . Only on those places permitted as prescribed by law
There is no right to a route through another person's property
The forests have owners
There is no land in Southern Nigeria that does not have an owner
any stakeholder is free to lobby for grazing route, olosho route snake route or elephant route
The point is government, specifically state government has the power to legislate

The public health risk is an issue that is subordinate to the status quo which is the currfent law

The public heath risk from cows are many

When they defecate their feces carry germs that can remain in the soil for decades and infect other animals and humans e.g Tuberculosis

They also carry blood borne diseases that they transmit to other animals like insects and bats e.g Trypanosomal diseases and babesios

So cattle are a RESERVOIR of some diseases. They should not be allowed in the forest where they can then serve as a node of transmission of other disease from animals like monkeys etc e.g we do not know whether they can carry Ebola so for that reason their movement should be regulated with regular testings etc . That is a very big subject and you can create a thread to discuss that

The issue here is that State governments have the power to regulate all businesses in its domain

These same regulations are in place in the US where we copied the freedom of movement clause from.
Cow do no invade universities and schools there or compete with motorists on the road

thebosstrevor1:



This is where you got everything wrong.

You do not need to buy land to rear cows, you can rent lands and rear them there.

You haven't broken any law if you transport your cow over a plot of land to get to another point, after all people pass through other people land to get to a destination.

Agreed the land use also allows for rent!
So if the herder is able to keep up with renting of Land to rear his cattle .he can approach the owner of the land to rent.buf he cannot move his cattle into another man's land