Dtruthspeaker:


Ever heard of The Law of Establishing a Case, "He who alleges must Prove?"

Surely you must know it for you were also using words like "hearsay, evidence etc"

Thus, you are the one who alleged that the Supernatural is a Fiction and you gave no proof of it.

your reversal of the burden of proof will not work.

Did you just say I gave no proof of it, my good sir you can't possibly be this ignorant.
The absence of no proof is the ever so obvious PROOF.perhaps you should read everything again,this time slowly.

shogsman:

No I'm relying on common sense and intelligent reasoning as would any sensible human being unburdened by the lies of traditions the lot of you were born with.
At the end of the day it is visible to the blind and audible to the deaf,if there is no single evidence in history and the trillions of individual events that comes with it,IT DOES NOT EXIST MY GOOD SIR.

Go look up the word hearsay evidence and see if it does not capture the evidence you obtained from your visit to "tons of herbalists and traditionalists"

shogsman:

Did you just say I gave no proof of it, my good sir you can't possibly be this ignorant.
The absence of no proof is the ever so obvious PROOF.perhaps you should read everything again,this time slowly.

And you wonder why a court says there is no proof in a case.

Here is another Law, "A case is Proven in and on its own strength and not on the weakness of the defendants opposition"

That is the import of "He who alleges must prove!"

Dtruthspeaker:


Ever heard of The Law of Establishing a Case, "He who alleges must Prove?"

Surely you must know it for you were also using words like "hearsay, evidence etc"

Thus, you are the one who alleged that the Supernatural is a Fiction and you gave no proof of it.

your reversal of the burden of proof will not work.

To start with any nitwit with half a brain that does reason time to time knows the supernatural is just a tale we caution kids with.which was made ever son obvious by the total absence of any real evidence that supports this farce.lucky for me I was born into this traditions and have had early run in with your so called JuJu which puts me in a palatable place to opine this obvious assertion, I've had run ins with dozens of your herbalists,heck I even grew up with some,in my attempt to reach a conclusion I did what would shake people like you and scare you to death, but alas my assertion was confirmed.
It is fiction,if you're still asking me for proof after this piece I can only wonder what did you in this deep into this illusion

Giving the amount of so called believers especially traditional folks on this platform I'm kinda amazed this thread is not filled to the brim.
Oh nah I'm just kidding,of course I know why they are avoiding me like a plague,it's because there is no sensible argument against my point.

shogsman:

To start with any nitwit with half a brain that does reason time to time knows the supernatural is just a tale we caution kids with.which was made ever son obvious by the total absence of any real evidence that supports this farce.lucky for me I was born into this traditions and have had early run in with your so called JuJu which puts me in a palatable place to opine this obvious assertion, I've had run ins with dozens of your herbalists,heck I even grew up with some,in my attempt to reach a conclusion I did what would shake people like you and scare you to death, but alas my assertion was confirmed.
It is fiction,if you're still asking me for proof after this piece I can only wonder what did you in this deep into this illusion

Too many "I's" and you are relying on "I".

This is a very bad way to present a case for there is no valid and reasonable way to test the Truth of your "I's" on this platform.

For you could be very well lying and in Truth you did not go to the places you said you went or did the things you said you did or even be who you claim to be or you could suffer some infirmity which prevents you from assessing information or properly interpreting certain information.

That is why you still can not validly make your case.

Dtruthspeaker:


Too many "I's" and you are relying on "I".

This is a very bad way to present a case for there is no valid and reasonable way to test the Truth of your "I's" on this platform.

For you could be very well lying and in Truth you did not go to the places you said you went or did the things you said you did or even be who you claim to be or you could suffer some infirmity which prevents you from assessing information or properly interpreting certain information.

That is why you still can not validly make your case.

I'm trying not to call you names because I do not do well with insulting people but you're making it difficult with this foolery

shogsman:

I'm trying not to call you names because I do not do well with insulting people but you're making it difficult with this foolery

I understand, but my answers should have told that I am a lawyer and you have just experienced the difficulty of trying to establish the Truth of an allegation especially where such allegations are uncommon.

There are many facts which make you fall, even before you begin your presentation.

shogsman:

Oh you're even a guy,that explains your staunch foolish arguments,you will receive the details in some couple of minutes

Why send it to him? Can he not just use his juju to get the info he requires?

Bishopkingsley:
Too many un believers here in nairaland

That's a good thing. Demons believe while some would rather ask and knock and seek with all their heart and soul and mind and being.

Dtruthspeaker:


Too many "I's" and you are relying on "I".

This is a very bad way to present a case for there is no valid and reasonable way to test the Truth of your "I's" on this platform.

For you could be very well lying and in Truth you did not go to the places you said you went or did the things you said you did or even be who you claim to be or you could suffer some infirmity which prevents you from assessing information or properly interpreting certain information.

That is why you still can not validly make your case.

So, what makes the hearsays anymore of a proof to the existence of the supernatural?

DeusXmachina:

So, what makes the hearsays anymore of a proof to the existence of the supernatural?

There are different types of good evidence which establish certain facts but right now I and other supporters of the Supernatural are not the ones who are to give proof of it because of the Op's thread.

Dtruthspeaker:


There are different types of good evidence which establish certain facts but right now I and other supporters of the Supernatural are not the ones who are to give proof of it because of the Op's thread.

Ok.
What I understand here, is that the op doesn't have a reason to believe the supernatural is real, as he has had no personal experience to prove him otherwise, and those people that have and he's engaged with, never present their experience in a manner that can be validated.
So, he is asking to be proven wrong.

So what experiences, chants, native doctor, prayer etc.. that does not relay on mind tricks or fear mongering. Can one give him to make him change his mind?

Even I am a bit curious, as I have had no supernatural experiences and find it hard to believe in any of it as real.

DeusXmachina:

Ok.
What I understand here, is that the op doesn't have a reason to believe the supernatural is real, as he has had no personal experience to prove him otherwise, and those people that have and he's engaged with, never present their experience in a manner that can be proven.
So, he is asking to be proven wrong.
So what experiences, chants, native doctor, prayer etc.. that does not relay on mind tricks or fear mongering. Can one give him to make him change his mind?

Just to put things in their True perspective, the real--eye-ity (reality) is that the Op has the power to hold any belief he fancies whether evidenced and True or not.

And there is absolutely nothing anyone can say or do to change the opinion he chooses to hold on to.

DeusXmachina:

Even I am a bit curious, as I have had no supernatural experiences and find it hard to believe in any of it is real.

Having engaged you before I do know that you are quite very reasonable and fair however, there are certain topics that are almost impossible to prove and establish the Truth of their existence online and this is one of them.

Dtruthspeaker:


Just to put things in their True perspective, the real--eye-ity (reality) is that the Op has the power to hold any belief he fancies whether evidenced and True or not.

And there is absolutely nothing anyone can say or do to change the opinion he chooses to hold on to.



Having engaged you before I do know that you are quite very reasonable and fair however, there are certain topics that are almost impossible to prove and establish the Truth of their existence online and this is one of them.

Ok, fair enough.

shogsman:

Like I said I will show you how stupid you have being today,some of you bask in your ignorance while the rest of the world laughs at you and yet you continue to wallow in abject naivety even when you don't have any logical or reasonable reason to.

They are taught right from their mothers’ bosoms that superstition and ignorance are virtues. After being inculcated with ignorance in the name of god, faith, and religion, their minds become fertile grounds for utter nonsense. since most are woefully unequipped to develop critical thinking skills, they get mired in their ignorance and betray their paucity of intellect frequently.

It’s a problem that’s afflicts every Black/African community worldwide.

kingxsamz:


They have juju/jazz, and they term it "black magic" but these same people would strive to get ordinary Visa to a neighborhood country. Juju no fit even fly them there.

I have started calling their precious religion white juju. The pope is the witch doctor of Rome. Their pastors are diviners and wizards.

Transubstantiation is white magic etc.

shogsman:
As a successful student of life and traditions I am here to settle an ever so old score.to start with
Supernatural beliefs are beliefs in things that do not and cannot exist to the best of scientific knowledge, but which appear real to believers. Examples are the belief in god, angels, daemons, reincarnation, ghosts, spirits,rituals etc.
Having done an extensive research and visited tons of herbalists and traditionalists personally for my study I can very well conclude that spirits, rituals and charms are just superstitious belief,the only power it has is the influence it has on believers who are at the mercy of the traditions they grew up into.

When people are asked to justify their belief in such invisible beings, they often appeal to two things. First, to testimony: to reports of sightings, miraculous events supposedly caused by such beings, and so on(this testimonies has never been confirmed in the real sense). Any New Age bookshop will be able to provide numerous testimonies regarding invisible agency that might seem hard to account for naturalistically in terms of hallucination, self-deception, misidentified natural phenomena, trickery, and so on. Second, many will also claim a subjective sense of presence: they ‘just know’ their dead Auntie is in the room with them, or that they have a guardian angel, by means of some sort of extra sense: a spirit sense. Many contemporary religious folk believe they can sense divinity by means of some sort of god-sense.

If there really are no good grounds for believing such beings exist, however, why do people believe in them? There’s much scientific speculation about that but, as yet, no definitive answer.

One obvious advantage of positing invisible agents is that they can account for what might otherwise be baffling. I could swear I left my keys on the table, but there they are under the sofa. How on Earth did that happen? Someone died around my house and my Windows won't keep shut,the spirit must still be lingering around even though there is a strong wind coursing through the weather.
I think the reason why they are so many believers in this part of the world is because people need something to rely on,they need a safety blanket,they need to feel like they're not alone and they're accountable for Thier actions

I welcome arguments from from enlightened and matured minds,afterall no one is an island of knowledge.

Obo leleyi o

You're a monkey with no higher centres...i feel sorry for you tho....

shogsman:

I do not disrespect people's beliefs, afterall they have the right to believe in whatever they want but at the same time I'm a realist.i say it as it is sir,the fact that there is no real or probable evidence does totally preclude it's possiblity.

To each his own.
I like keeping an open mind.

shogsman:
Giving the amount of so called believers especially traditional folks on this platform I'm kinda amazed this thread is not filled to the brim.
Oh nah I'm just kidding,of course I know why they are avoiding me like a plague,it's because there is no sensible argument against my point.

You may be mistaken about why your thread is not filled to the brim.
Most people who engaged in witchcraft practices do so not because it can be explained rationally but because of the assumed power it gives them

For those who believe in it, they do so because it has become a part of their reality having grown up in an environment where such practices are rife.

So, if you want to convince such persons to abandon what they have come to regard as real, then you would need to come up with something far more persuasive. Your Op lacks what is needed to achieve this.



Another reason I think your thread is being avoided is because you are not a good teacher of what you know . You have certain experiences which has convinced you the spiritual is fiction but you're not willing to share the details of those experiences to convince otthers .

Furthermore, your attitude is a problem. It is too condescending for someone who intends to enlighten others about what you think you know or have discovered.

A good teacher should respond to any kind of question . It doesn't matter how stupid or unnecessary it may appear to you. Someone asked you some questions at the begining
of this thread which you refused to answer or answered in a condescending manner . How can learning take place in such an atmosphere of trying to put others down just becuase
you think you know better. Others following your thread may have similar questions too. If you answer those for him ,then you should have answered for others .

A teacher should also learn to be patient and tolerating of students he assume he knows better than and not insult or mock them because they fail to follow up or question what is being taught. It seem to me the purpose of you creating this thread is to mock and insult others who believe in the supernatural.. If you intention is to enlighten ,then quit the mockery and insult and focus on your task.

Why should people participate when it seems you want to fight anyone who disagree with you.

There are adults on this board and no one likes to be called a fool or stupid for what they believe in. You're throwing innuedoes everywhere and pretending as if you don't know what you're doing

These are just my observation. Hope it has not created any offence

triplechoice:


You may be mistaken about why your thread is not filled to the brim.
Most people who engaged in witchcraft practices do so not because it can be explained rationally but because of the assumed power it gives them

For those who believe in it, they do so because it has become a part of their reality having grown up in an environment where such practices are rife.

So, if you want to convince such persons to abandon what they have come to regard as real, then you would need to come up with something far more persuasive. Your Op lacks what is needed to achieve this.



Another reason I think your thread is being avoided is because you are not a good teacher of what you know . You have certain experiences which has convinced you the spiritual is fiction but you're not willing to share the details of those experiences to convince otthers .

Furthermore, your attitude is a problem. It is too condescending for someone who intends to enlighten others about what you think you know or have discovered.

A good teacher should respond to any kind of question . It doesn't matter how stupid or unnecessary it may appear to you. Someone asked you some questions at the begining
of this thread which you refused to answer or answered in a condescending manner . How can learning take place in such an atmosphere of trying to put others down just becuase
you think you know better. Others following your thread may have similar questions too. If you answer those for him ,then you should have answered for others .

A teacher should also learn to be patient and tolerating of students he assume he knows better than and not insult or mock them because they fail to follow up or question what is being taught. It seem to me the purpose of you creating this thread is to mock and insult others who believe in the supernatural.. If you intention is to enlighten ,then quit the mockery and insult and focus on your task.

Why should people participate when it seems you want to fight anyone who disagree with you.

There are adults on this board and no one likes to be called a fool or stupid for what they believe in. You're throwing innuedoes everywhere and pretending as if you don't know what you're doing

These are just my observation. Hope it has not created any offence

Not at all sir,your points are actually scored perfectly,but the bias there is that I AM NOT A TEACHER,I DO NOT WISH TO CONVINCE ANYBODY TO BELIEVE ANYTHING,I AM JUST A STUDENT OF SCIENCE HERE TO DISCUSS FACT,MAYBE I DO NOT HAVE THE REQUIRED AMOUNT OF TOLERANCE BUT THAT IS NOT TOTALLY MY FAULT, IGNORANCE CAN BE VERY ANNOYING .I will not welcome insults by turning the other cheek,it is my civic responsibility to tell an individual how foolish he or she is if they depict a disrespectful opinion of themselves

Gharial:


Obo leleyi o

You're a monkey with no higher centres...i feel sorry for you tho....

For the 100th time,this thread isn't meant for people of little or no intellect like you,use the door.

Good folks I still welcome more attempt from people of virtue to dissuade my Motion ,perhaps I'll even throw in a price.

shogsman:

For the 100th time,this thread isn't meant for people of little or no intellect like you,use the door.

Says a mere mortal like you, who stupidly imagines his puny intellect/corporeal form as the limit of consciousness

Gharial:


Says a mere mortal like you, who stupidly imagines his puny intellect/corporeal form as the limit of consciousness

I have a feeling that foolishness is your second name

shogsman:

I have a feeling that foolishness is your second name

Ba-na-na

I told you already to stop coming here to preen like you're an intellectual, when a monkey is actually better than you are

I'm still entertaining approaches from superstitious folks, don't be shy,if you can handle yourself quite well come in.

Guess no one is brave enough to challenge my alleged misthought

One would assumed that igboho with all his powerful charms and fortifications would evade capture, but alas he didn't, same goes for kanu too,which brings out my ever so obvious point.
The supernatural is a load of horse crap