Kobojunkie:
But, I didn't use the word "concubine" in my comment there?

Sidekick, mistress, concubine mean the same thing in this context, they are not wives.

LordReed:

Sidekick, mistress, concubine mean the same thing in this context, they are not wives.

Well, as I explained to the OP, what Abraham had were lesser wives, and not sidechicks/mistresses(unmarried).

Kobojunkie:
Well, as I explained to the OP, what Abraham had were lesser wives, and not sidechicks/mistresses(unmarried).

They didn't get a marriage ceremony so what makes them wives and what makes them lesser?

LordReed:

They didn't get a marriage ceremony so what makes them wives and what makes them lesser?

I am not sure from the story if they did or did not get a marriage ceremony. What makes them wives and what makes them lesser? I don't know. All I know is in Abraham's case, they were wives who were referred to as concubines.

Kobojunkie:
I am not sure from the story if they did or did not get a marriage ceremony. What makes them wives and what makes them lesser? I don't know. All I know is in Abraham's case, they were wives who were referred to as concubines.

From the cultural context of what can be gleaned from historical data, they did not get marriage ceremonies. Which is why I dunno how you are able to refer to them as wives. The only difference between the olden days practice and what is obtainable now is the concubines were allowed to live in the same house with the wives.

LordReed:

From the cultural context of what can be gleaned from historical data, they did not get marriage ceremonies. Which is why I dunno how you are able to refer to them as wives. The only difference between the olden days practice and what is obtainable now is the concubines were allowed to live in the same house with the wives.

God never required your marriage ceremonies in His definition of marriage.
Second, I refer to them as wives, because they were referred to as Abraham's wives in the Bible.

Kobojunkie:
God never required your marriage ceremonies in His definition of marriage.
Second, I refer to them as wives, because they were referred to as Abraham's wives in the Bible.

LMAO! Your god recognises marriages without ceremony but somehow it's now a sin to do the same today.

Keturah and Hagar were concubines not wives.
1 Chronicles 1:32
Now the sons born to Keturah, Abraham’s concubine

LordReed:

LMAO! Your god recognises marriages without ceremony but somehow it's now a sin to do the same today.

Keturah and Hagar were concubines not wives.
1 Chronicles 1:32
Now the sons born to Keturah, Abraham’s concubine

I don't know where you got the idea that it is now a sin to be married without a ceremony from , this since God never changed his mind as far as the definition of marrriage.

And as I already showed you previously, in Genesis 15 vs 3 , Hagar was listed as Abraham's wife and so also was Keturah , in Genesis 25 vs 1.

Kobojunkie:
I don't know where you got the idea that it is now a sin to be married without a ceremony from , this since God never changed his mind as far as the definition of marrriage.

And as I already showed you previously, in Genesis 15 vs 3 , Hagar was listed as Abraham's wife and so also was Keturah , in Genesis 25 vs 1.

So a man can marry multiple wives and have concubines since god has not changed right?

The bible is wrong then in calling Keturah a concubine.

LordReed:

So a man can marry multiple wives and have concubines since god has not changed right?

The bible is wrong then in calling Keturah a concubine.

1. If the man is of the Old Covenant Law, sure.

2. I don't know since I dont know the details of the Law that exiisted between God and Abraham.

Kobojunkie:
1. If the man is of the Old Covenant Law, sure.

2. I don't know since I dont know the details of the Law that exiisted between God and Abraham.

Now you are contradicting yourself. You just said god hasn't changed marrige but somehow there is a difference because of what you call Old Covenant Law or some Law that was between Abraham and your god. What of Solomon did he have his own special Law too? David? Gideon?

LordReed:

Now you are contradicting yourself. You just said god hasn't changed marrige but somehow there is a difference because of what you call Old Covenant Law or some Law that was between Abraham and your god. What of Solomon did he have his own special Law too? David? Gideon?

1. Marriage remains the same for those of us who follow Jesus Christ said in Matthew 19 vs 4 - 6

2. God had a Covenant with Abraham which may have included laws defining marriage in his case. Since, I don't know the details of that Law, I can't speak to it in anyway. All I know is that he was married to all 3 women - Sarah, Hagar and Keturah.

3. Those of the Old Covenant had additional laws as I previously showed in Exodus 21 and , I believe Deuteronomy 20, which permitted the having of lesser wives also referred to as slave wives/concubines in some cases.

So you have the guts to include Abraham in this write up? Are you aware barrenness is what made Sarah pressurize Abraham to have a child from the hand maid? Same Sarah later told him to send the maid away, which shows that the wife was totally responsible for that error. Marriage was created to happen between one man and woman, as shown in the first marriage between Adam and Eve.

Kobojunkie:
1. Marriage remains the same for those of us who follow Jesus Christ said in Matthew 19 vs 4 - 6

2. God had a Covenant with Abraham which may have included laws defining marriage in his case. Since, I don't know the details of that Law, I can't speak to it in anyway. All I know is that he was married to all 3 women - Sarah, Hagar and Keturah.

3. Those of the Old Covenant had additional laws as I previously showed in Exodus 21 and , I believe Deuteronomy 20, which permitted the having of lesser wives also referred to as slave wives/concubines in some cases.

So apparently Abraham and the rest had been committing adultery since they had wives and concubines but your god overlooked them or gave them special grace, like that Abuja pastor. I guess god can give you special grace to marry more than one wife and have concubines. LMFAO!

LordReed:

So apparently Abraham and the rest had been committing adultery since they had wives and concubines but your god overlooked them or gave them special grace, like that Abuja pastor. I guess god can give you special grace to marry more than one wife and have concubines. LMFAO!

Your conclusion makes no sense to me since there isn't evidence of even Abraham committing adultery from what I have said so far.

Kobojunkie:
Your conclusion makes no sense to me since there isn't evidence of even Abraham committing adultery from what I have said so far.

You quoted Jesus saying that a man who marries another woman is committing adultery, it is not rocket science to draw the conclusion that you are clearly in support of monogamy. Abraham and the rest were not monogamous so they were committing adultery according to you, except of course god gave them a special grace to continue committing adultery since he didn't want them to marry multiple wives but he allowed them to anyway.

Why I take the trouble to engage in all these is that it just seems to me that you folk hide yourselves from the implications of the things you say. You tie yourselves into pretzels trying to explain this convoluted mess and can't see that you are contradicting yourselves or maybe you do know you are contradicting yourself but are so caught up in the cognitive dissonance you just go with the flow.

LordReed:

You quoted Jesus saying that a man who marries another woman is committing adultery, it is not rocket science to draw the conclusion that you are clearly in support of monogamy. Abraham and the rest were not monogamous so they were committing adultery according to you, except of course god gave them a special grace to continue committing adultery since he didn't want them to marry multiple wives but he allowed them to anyway.

Why I take the trouble to engage in all these is that it just seems to me that you folk hide yourselves from the implications of the things you say. You tie yourselves into pretzels trying to explain this convoluted mess and can't see that you are contradicting yourselves or maybe you do know you are contradicting yourself but are so caught up in the cognitive dissonance you just go with the flow.

Monogamy?

You are taking this where it ought to even venture at all. What I quoted was Jesus Christ affirming the decree God gave in Genesis 2 vs 24 regarding the definition of marriage - a union between a man and a woman. Nothing of that says monogamy is the decree!

Adultery as Jesus Christ made clear, in the Law He represents, is defined as a man divorcing his wife only to then marry another woman, or a woman divorcing her husband only to then marry another man. This different from Old Covenant description of the same sin.

LordReed:



Why I take the trouble to engage in all these is that it just seems to me that you folk hide yourselves from the implications of the things you say. You tie yourselves into pretzels trying to explain this convoluted mess and can't see that you are contradicting yourselves or maybe you do know you are contradicting yourself but are so caught up in the cognitive dissonance you just go with the flow.

Aptly describes my hobby with you, well that was before you started to see me as some kind of sugar daddy to fear. Fear God reed, not me.

Image123:


Aptly describes my hobby with you, well that was before you started to see me as some kind of sugar daddy to fear. Fear God reed, not me.

Lagbaja Nothing For You!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd-MeDtmIbA

Kobojunkie:
Monogamy?

You are taking this where it ought to even venture at all. What I quoted was Jesus Christ affirming the decree God gave in Genesis 2 vs 24 regarding the definition of marriage - a union between a man and a woman. Nothing of that says monogamy is the decree!

Adultery as Jesus Christ made clear, in the Law He represents, is defined as a man divorcing his wife only to then marry another woman, or a woman divorcing her husband only to then marry another man. This different from Old Covenant description of the same sin.

LMFAO! Divorcing and remarrying is adultery but marrying multiple wives is not. SMH Bwahahahaha! I can't anymore. LoLz!

The dissonance is as clear as summer daylight.

LordReed:


LMFAO! Divorcing and remarrying is adultery but marrying multiple wives is not. SMH Bwahahahaha! I can't anymore. LoLz!

The dissonance is as clear as summer daylight.

Stop learning English from a Chinese only to later blame the English. OT and NT are not the same T.

Image123:


Stop learning English from a Chinese only to later blame the English. OT and NT are not the same T.

Lagbaja Nothing For You!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd-MeDtmIbA

Kobojunkie:
Monogamy?

You are taking this where it ought to even venture at all. What I quoted was Jesus Christ affirming the decree God gave in Genesis 2 vs 24 regarding the definition of marriage - a union between a man and a woman. Nothing of that says monogamy is the decree!

Adultery as Jesus Christ made clear, in the Law He represents, is defined as a man divorcing his wife only to then marry another woman, or a woman divorcing her husband only to then marry another man. This different from Old Covenant description of the same sin.

Remember this:

Kobojunkie:
First of all, God already declared it against Him - this in His Law - for anyone of His people to take to themselves concubines. So, His "silence" when a person goes against that which He has decreed, should not then be mistaken for approval of any kind from God.

Secondly, God, on numerous occasions, condemned sin, including adultery, among His people. He did this severally through His prophets.

LordReed:

Remember this:

Yes, I do remember it well.

Kobojunkie:
Yes, I do remember it well.

I would also hope you see how you have contradicted yourself.

LordReed:

I would also hope you see how you have contradicted yourself.

I don't see it. Go ahead and show me.

Kobojunkie:
I don't see it. Go ahead and show me.

Compare:
First of all, God already declared it against Him - this in His Law - for anyone of His people to take to themselves concubines. So, His "silence" when a person goes against that which He has decreed, should not then be mistaken for approval of any kind from God.

With:
Those of the Old Covenant had additional laws as I previously showed in Exodus 21 and , I believe Deuteronomy 20, which permitted the having of lesser wives also referred to as slave wives/concubines in some cases.

You directly contradicted yourself. Declaring first that your god did not give permission then flipping and saying he did.

LordReed:

Compare:
First of all, God already declared it against Him - this in His Law - for anyone of His people to take to themselves concubines. So, His "silence" when a person goes against that which He has decreed, should not then be mistaken for approval of any kind from God.

With:
Those of the Old Covenant had additional laws as I previously showed in Exodus 21 and , I believe Deuteronomy 20, which permitted the having of lesser wives also referred to as slave wives/concubines in some cases.

You directly contradicted yourself. Declaring first that your god did not give permission then flipping and saying he did.

You are right! My mistake was in my assumption that the word "concubine" was used, in the bible, only in reference the unmarried women kept by the men. But as you rightly pointed out, even Keturah who was rightly married to Abraham was referred to as a concubine in the book of chronicles.

Kobojunkie:
You are right! My mistake was in my assumption that the word "concubine" was used, in the bible, only in reference the unmarried women kept by the men. But as you rightly pointed out, even Keturah who was rightly married to Abraham was referred to as a concubine in the book of chronicles.

Without a ceremony what was the entry point for the married status for a concubine?

LordReed:

Without a ceremony what was the entry point for the married status for a concubine?

God does not require ceremonies for a couple to be considered married so?

Kobojunkie:
God does not require ceremonies for a couple to be considered married so?

Well how did one know he was married to the concubine?

LordReed:

Well how did one know he was married to the concubine?

I don't know. All I know is a ceremony is not required as far as God's definition of marriage.