Kgdavid:

4. who are you to decide how they use money you never contributed to?

dare2think:

Who are you to decide what I decide to decide??

Kgdavid:

where did i decide wat you should decide to decide? merely pointed out that you are not in any position to decide for otheers. (gotta give u an A for your efforts to sound smart while evading the fact that you are really commenting on an issue without having any basis for such)

I was merely returning your rhetorics, evasion was unecessary.  So, I give you an F for your lack of comprehension.

lol you guys are an annoying bunch but i really dont wish to get embroiled in any long useless and silly debate so in summary, i used no fancy rhetoric to state what i belived to be the case but you however replied me obfuscating the issue with meaningless semantics and irrelevant rhetoric. i stated that the means by which the funds are gained is honest and you contered by asking how i know which i again explained after which you countered by saying the use was boder-line criminal. without adressing that iressponsible claim i would like to ask how the legality of use has any impact on the legality of the means? the question was on the legality of the means but because you could not fault that you brought up another issue. you conter my point that the spirituality of the subject is not your business by asking me if it was my business as well which is off the mark as i clearly made no remarks concerning the spirituality of either you, winners chapel members nor bishop Oyedepo. i am indeed workin out my own salvation with fear and trembling. you assert your right to dictate how winners chapel use their money regardless of the fact that you are not a member stating that it is a social matter but forgetting that winners chapel is not your government and do not owe you anything. the funniest part of wat you've been saying is how you extract one part of the definition of organization and try to pass it off as the whole in order to cover the rubbish you said. according to the dictionary you quoted, organization refers to the administrative personnel of a business. now you and i know very well that there were other definitions of organization in that dictionary but you chose this one because you thought it would cover your silly mistake. i ask; is that the sense in which i used the word organization? is that even the sense in which you used it? which business is winners chapel administrating? or does the administrative part of a business pay out profit to its members-the administrative staff? what you were referring to is a company and what i referred to is an organization. get an education, try covenant univeristy

Zikkyy:

@[b]Kgdavid, i see dare2think has responded to your question But i had something else in mind when i made that post

I am sorry sir, i see you dont understand my post let me rephrase [/b]What do you think Dressing up/package the word of God in Armani suit, relax it in luxurious condition (private jet with extremely expensive leather mix with the finest wood) and send to pakistan (popping champange all the way ).

Do you think this beautiful care and comfort given to the word enhances or increase the probability of acceptance by pakistanis especially when you take into consideration the fact that you will be leaving behind in pakistan, a 50cents (at most one usd) version of the word What value does it add to the spread of the gospel

@ the bolde, thats unecessary repition sir lol
on a serious note, are you saying the mode of transportation influences the validity of the message?

dare2think:



To help you,

ORGANIZATION: The administrative personnel or apparatus of a business


Source, DICTIONARY.

Dude, knowing words is not only the important bit, its application is relevant too. So, for your own good, learn how to apply and understand meanings of words.

Kgdavid:

according to the dictionary you quoted, organization refers to the administrative personnel of a business.

Kgdavid:

or does the administrative part of a business pay out profit to its members-the administrative staff? what you were referring to is a company and what i referred to is an organization. get an education, try covenant univeristy

Yes, the HR department.

again,

Kgdavid:

get an education, try covenant univeristy

So, stuff your covenant. (No offence to the students)

By the way, learn to use paragraphs, it helps the reader to understand your composition.

Kgdavid:

@ the bolde, thats unecessary repition sir lol

Knowing pastor's boys (and girls) are usually not so smart people, i'll pretend i never saw the your comment

Kgdavid:

on a serious note, are you saying the mode of transportation influences the validity of the message?

I am saying it does not. using private jet to transport the word does not add value to the process. It simply a waste of resources. Its just for the MOG to show off

Kgdavid:

how do you propose God's word should travel from Nigeria to pakistan from example? by boat??

Please point to one Nigerian "MOG" with a private jet who has travelled to Pakistan in that jet! (Or maybe any single one out of Mali, Mauritania, Egypt?)

Come to think of it, tell us which one of the big name "MOGs" (whether with a private jet or not) has gone to any single one out of Mali, Benin Republic, Togo, Mauretania, Swaziland, Lesotho to evangelise?

Or, if you like, please tell us the countries that the big name "MOGs" (whether with a private jet or not) usually go to evangelise!

each time i read these news i honestly get really sad and pensive rather than angry, i understand the rationale of dangote owning a private jet,the funny thing is that even our corrupt wicked politicians who can afford it have not bought private jets,
the second thing im perplexed about is this, lets assume bishop oyedepo has one private jet ok fair enough,but the second jet what?? really??

Don Shark:

May God have mercy on all those negatively criticizing the servant of God for buying a jet.

and GOD help the servant of GOD for an ostentatious show and display of wealth when his congregation are starving btw correction not one jet at the last count 4 jets

Don Shark:

Let me ask you these questions;
1. Is it a crime for God to bless someone.

no its not a crime,but it becomes morally reprehensible for the head of the congregation not to follow jesus christ's example of sharing the blessings with the less well off amongst his congregation

Don Shark:

2. If not,is it a crime for someone to enjoy God's blessings on one's life.

no its not a crime but when such person starts to buy not one,not two,not three but four PRIVATE jets,not for the use of the church members but his exclusive use,then i go back to my bible and ask myself WHAT WOULD AND DID JESUS CHRIST DO?

Don Shark:

2. If not,why the hullabaloo about Bishop David O. Oyedepo owning a private jet.

THE HULLABALOO IS NOT ABOUT BISHOP OYEDEPO OWNING A PRIVATE JET,but owning several private jets
a)when he clearly does not need it
b)when the money could be put to better use feeding the starving,health and social welfare of his less well off congregations
c)the effects on the environmental degradation and the ozone layer
d)the jet is for his exclusive use and maybe the top ten leadership, its not like a church member who gets a visa tomorrow can apply to board and accompany the bishop on his trip abroad is it?

Don Shark:

Let me confide this to you;God's blessings maketh rich and addeth no sorrrow

yes you are totally right but the rank and file,the poor,starving amongst his congregation will disagree with you, the lord did not make him and the rest rich to hugg all the billions but fo them to share it with the less well off agreed?
jesus christ did not keep the loaves and fishes to himself or sell it and then share the money amongst his disciples he shared with the less well off

Don Shark:

if only you can give up pleasures of life to serve God genuinely,God will not only give you a jet but shall make you own an airline company.You know he can do all things.I pray that God should bless you richly so that your mentality will change.Amen.

in other words are you asserting that the rest of the poor who trek to church and back,who tithe and donate their wido's mite are not serving GOD genuinely because they cant afford a private jet?
yes he can do all things but realistically this isnt going to happen though is it?
its not our mentality that needs changing but that of men of GOD who feel the need to spend billions aquiring private jets when people are starving.
bill gates(the richest man in the world) is not a born again christian but he has committed his considerable wealth to eradicate deseases in africa, you know what GOD did?he didnt say no he isnt born again GOD blessed him more and he became even richer than he was,that is GOD for you.

warren buffet?i dont think he even attends church but go and check how many billions he has pledged out of his fortune towards the bill and melinda gates foundation.

these are white westerners who have absolutely no connection with africa,what are our own people doing instead they are buying private jets if you dont see anything wrong in that scenario then im sorry

Enigma:

Please point to one Nigerian "MOG" with a private jet who has travelled to Pakistan in that jet! (Or maybe any single one out of Mali, Mauritania, Egypt?)

Come to think of it, tell us which one of the big name "MOGs" (whether with a private jet or not) has gone to any single one out of Mali, Benin Republic, Togo, Mauretania, Swaziland, Lesotho to evangelise?

Or, if you like, please tell us the countries that the big name "MOGs" (whether with a private jet or not) usually go to evangelise!

i guess you missed out on where i said "pakistan for example"?? i dont know the itineraries of these men of God but i know both bishop Oyedepo and Pastor Adegboye have been to Gambia.

@Kgdavid

Can I ask you a question KgDavid ? If the average member of Winners chapel falls ill with cancer - will be be flown abroad on the private jet for treatment ? The answer is of course NO - so why does the pastor takes peoples hard earned money to buy himself a jet instead of building and equiping a hospital in Nigeria to be able to treat cancer ??

Kgdavid:

  what you were referring to is a company and what i referred to is an organization. get an education, try covenant univeristy

A company is a form of business organization. It is a collection of individuals and physical assets with a common focus and an aim of gaining profits

Source; Wikipidia.

Dude, you are in no position to refer someone to seek an education, better you first sort yourself out .

Can't wait for tomorrow, then I'll own the jets as David Oyedepo and his cronies are snatched up to heaven. He wouldn't be happy with that seeing he has not really enjoyed the use of them yet. Jesus and the Bishop will definitely have an argument with the Bishop asking Jesus while he chose to conduct the rapture so quickly (Come on, I was enjoying life on earth)

EarsWide:

@Kgdavid

Can I ask you a question KgDavid ? If the average member of Winners chapel falls ill with cancer - will be be flown abroad on the private jet for treatment ? The answer is of course NO - so why does the pastor takes peoples hard earned money to buy himself a jet instead of building and equiping a hospital in Nigeria to be able to treat cancer ??

lol why speculate? its one thing to say they made a bad judgement call but its quite another to begin to castigate and attack the personality of the man and the validity of his calling

dare2think:

A company is a form of business organization. It is a collection of individuals and physical assets with a common focus and an aim of gaining profits

Source; Wikipidia.

Dude, you are in no position to refer someone to seek an education, better you first sort yourself out .

this is getting very embarrassing! wont you take pity on yourself?? did i call winners a business organization or an organization? so because a hand is part of a body does that make a hand a full body? a company is a type of organization just like a hand is a part of the body. did i say the two were mutually exclusive? i referred to winners chapel as an organization(world mission agency) and you jumped in saying they should pay dividends to members, are you ok? sit down there quoting wikipedia(not wikipidia?)

@KgDavid

you said

lol why speculate? its one thing to say they made a bad judgement call but its quite another to begin to castigate and attack the personality of the man and the validity of his calling

We need to question the character of a person who can in the face of such glaring problems in Nigeria decide it is best to spend more than $10 million (from tithes and offerings) on a private jet.

Kgdavid:



this is getting very embarrassing! wont you take pity on yourself?? did i call winners a business organization or an organization? so because a hand is part of a body does that make a hand a full body? a company is a type of organization just like a hand is a part of the body. did i say the two were mutually exclusive? i referred to winners chapel as an organization(world mission agency) and you jumped in saying they should pay dividends to members, are you ok? sit down there quoting wikipedia(not wikipidia?)

lol, thanks for the correction, besides you should understand that it was a typo. (how old are you anyway?)

Anyway, you never called the church a business organization, but you used a generic term and I attached my own definition to it. There is nothing wrong in that.

@Kgdavid

We are all entitled to our opinions and views and this forum is a democratic medium in which everyone can express whatever they feel on the subject matter. We are both not members yet we contributed "for" and "against" the debate.

It is,to me, an obvious lack of judgement and sensibility to have two luxury jets bought with money from the church in an african country where poverty is predominant.  The money can be used to change a lot of lives.

Would Jesus be in control of that money and purchase those things?, When there are still people on earth dying of hunger.
Is everyone in the Church so comfortable that they don't need the money used for the Jets?
Are you aware that power corrupts?

I dont know, but we need to ask questions and debate on the issues because at some point we would learn something from each other and progress would be made.

its one thing to ask questions and quite another to attack someones personality. sure ill agree that it does seem wasteful, no argument on that but that does not warrant the level of abuse he is receiving here

@KgDavid

I have watched a video of a sermon where Oyedepo said the church should pray for the destruction of their enemies - now to me anyone who says that has little understanding of christianity.

He should not be leading a church.

Let me guess
You should

@Azibalua

Aside from the childish remark- do you think a pastor should be praying for the destruction of enemies ?

I have watched a video of a sermon where Oyedepo said the church should pray for the destruction of their enemies - now to me anyone who says that has little understanding of christianity.

He should not be leading a church.

I dont see why Humans being wil be casting devils and their fellow humans as humans all this thing are boudn to happen according to the law of Nature, Ok, that is why we Africans especialy Nigerians have been brainwashed by religion after slavetrade fro the earlier times, stil yet we go and pay this rippers money in church imagine single ladies who are mostly aged forties & above, before being allowed to participate in d deliverance session are compelled to pay a consultation fee of N50,000:00 & after, miracles fees of N200,000:00 and above, depending on the caliber of husband that the lady is looking for. Those seeking wealthy & international businessmen are charged N200, 000 which will be paid on four installments depending on an individual’s financial capacity. For those seeking for an average wealthy man, you pay 120,000. Those paying on installment are forced to take oath with the pastor using their menstrual blood which the pastor will collect & keep. If the individual refuses to pay, she will be visited with barrenness or instant death. Further investigation showed that the hallmark of these deliverance sessions is the pastor’s anointing of foreheads & private parts of these ladies proclaiming that any man who comes in contact with them that the Olive oil will glue them together, making them inseparable, HEY , NA WA OOO

as for the Oyedepo story na Tales By Moonlight, Na so dem go frame am for us , Ol boy na Jazz all of dem dey use, jare, dey Mugu poor people

poweredcom:



I dont see why Humans being wil be casting devils and their fellow humans as humans all this thing are boudn to happen according to the law of Nature, Ok, that is why we Africans especialy Nigerians have been brainwashed by religion after slavetrade fro the earlier times, stil yet we go and pay this rippers money in church imagine single ladies who are mostly aged forties & above, before being allowed to participate in d deliverance session are compelled to pay a consultation fee of N50,000:00 & after, miracles fees of N200,000:00 and above, depending on the caliber of husband that the lady is looking for. Those seeking wealthy & international businessmen are charged N200, 000 which will be paid on four installments depending on an individual’s financial capacity. For those seeking for an average wealthy man, you pay 120,000. Those paying on installment are forced to take oath with the pastor using their menstrual blood which the pastor will collect & keep. If the individual refuses to pay, she will be visited with barrenness or instant death. Further investigation showed that the hallmark of these deliverance sessions is the pastor’s anointing of foreheads & private parts of these ladies proclaiming that any man who comes in contact with them that the Olive oil will glue them together, making them inseparable, HEY , NA WA OOO

as for the Oyedepo story na Tales By Moonlight, Na so dem go frame am for us , Ol boy na Jazz all of dem dey use, jare, dey Mugu poor people

which church does all those things you described??

It is always inspiring to read about MOG, the passion, sacrifice and love for the master is always encouraging. If they can do it, i can also do it. Bishop continue the good work, you are an example to follow indeed. When i read articles like this i seat down and think about my commitment to the master's work.
THANK U FOR THAT

EarsWide:

@Azibalua

Aside from the childish remark- do you think a pastor should be praying for the destruction of enemies ?

You can ask your aides.

Jesus could have used horses when he preached on the earth; he didn't.

He so blended with the 12 that he needed to be identified amongst them.

Where is the pattern of follwoing Jesus by Oyedepo and his jets?

Where is the compassion for indigent members of his congregation?

Where is the humility befitting a true minister of the Christ?

Not in the jets, not in the abusive slap.

you guys should grow up, it's good to give to the less privileged. but it's better to teach you how to get fish than to give you fish, (mind you, I am a big time beneficiary), you don't do anything until it is prompted by the Holy Spirit, - including GIVING TO THE LESS PRIVILEGED. PLEASE GROW UP AND STOP ACTING AS BABES IN CHRIST OR WORSE,,,,,,,,,, AS UNBELIEVERS.

@Dr Joseph
See how you ridicule yourself and christianity you claim to profess; when it comes to obeying the simple instruction of our Lord Jesus christ you claim you still need the holy spirit to prompt you but when it comes to giving tithes which Jesus never even taught it is mandatory you don't need holy spirit to prompt you. In fact you would be labelled as a thief if you don't pay the so called. Tithe. Bunch of hypocrites

@Pastor Kun
-giving to the less privileged is not giving tithes,
-paying of tithes is always mandatory,
-tithes are payed to your local church and not the less privileged,
-CAN'T YOU READ? DID YOU FAIL ENGLISH IN WAEC?
-I wonder how you will teach a congregation,
-Go and read your bible, or if need be, go back to school.
______remember this ", as many as are led by the spirit of God, they are the sons of God, "

@Dr Joseph
The fact remains that Jesus taught giving to the needy so all this talk of needing the holy spirit to prompt you before obeying his clear commandments is at best being dishonest. On the other hand, he never taught giving of tithes as tithing is not relevant to the christian gospel yet many so called preachers today still preach it as mandatory. Is it not hypocritical to ignore or qualify Jesus clear laws whilst preaching false man made doctrines like modern day version of tithing as mandatory?

do you read only new testament? or are you a member of some gathering you call a church?
read malachi 3, if you don't pay tithes, you are a thief, labelled by God himself,
grow up in the word of God please,
how do you preach? do you spread this ignorance about?
get christian materials and read,
RECOMMENDED AUTHORS:
kenneth e. hagin
kenneth copeland
gloria copeland
david oyedepo
r.w. schamback
bill winston
benny hinn, etc,
Please develop yourself spiritually,
GOD HELP YOU AS YOU DO SO>>>>>

All the recommended authors you listed above are all fraudsters using the name of God to fleece believers. Tithing is an ancient Jewish addressed to the Israelites. Christians are not under this archaic law but under grace, any preacher that tells you otherwise has denied the faith and is at best a charlatan.