peterd53:
Your Penaldo choked most times against big teams. He missed a penalty against Barca but was saved by scholes golazo semifinals 2008

He missed a penalty in the final also against Chelsea

Wer was ur mcm when Messi led Barca team trash u madridiot 5-0,4-0 ? He couldn’t even threaten the keeper

You’re talking about comebacks as if it’s a new tin. Messi has done more comebacks in d ucl dan Penaldo

Barcelona vs Milan 2013 (overturning a 2-0 deficit)
Barcelona vs arsenal 2011 (overturning a 2-1 deficit to score 4 goals)

Martinez39s:

It's not my fault that you don't understand my argument. No one is saying Messi hasn't performed against big teams; and no one is saying Ronaldo hasn't lost matches against big teams. What is wrong with you people? Can't you guys logically follow arguments? All I am saying is way more often than Messi, Ronaldo turns up when he is needed the most, even against big teams. Also, Ronaldo rarely chokes or bottle up things like Messi and his teammates have done on some occasions. Ronaldo has done this more frequently that football fans associate him with the big occasion and the man to call upon when the team needs a saviour.

In all the matches you and the other guy claimed Ronaldo choked, Ronaldo's team ended up winning. At least if Messi will choke, let his choking not give his team a defeat. Ronaldo has never choked and got defeated. Even against Chelsea, he scored in the match and Man Utd ended up winning.

He didn't choke or bottle anything. Barça were simply the better side in those El Clasicos. By the way, Messi didn't lead Barça to win 4-0 at the Bernabeu, he didn't even score. Messi came as a sub in that match after Barcelona were 3-0 ahead (I think). Madrid's poor performance was due to Rafael Benitez. When he left and Zidane came, didn't Ronaldo score the winning goal at Camp Nou that same season in a 2-1 victory? Where was Messi? Messi didn't even score in the 5-0 victory, but he performed well just like others.

Stop lying. In 2011, Barcelona won 3-1 after losing 2-1 to Arsenal at the Emirates Stadium. Messi scored two goals. Before that, an unfair red card was given to Van Persie early in the second leg before Barcelona scored all their goals. Van Persie was causing a lot of problems for Barça's defence.

It was in 2010 that Messi scored four against Arsenal. Before that awesome display at Camp Nou, Barcelona drew 2-2 with Arsenal at the Emirates Stadium. Funny enough, Arsenal did a comeback after Ibrahimovic scored twice to make it 2-0. There was no comeback. Finally, Messi choking has cost his teams on many occasion, and he has bottled up a lot leading to his team's downfall. Same can't be said of Ronaldo. Also, Ronaldo, way more than Messi, has resurrected his team against tough opponents when all hope was lost, and when he was needed the most. We can agree to disagree. I won't argue with you again.

ddippset:
It is very very very very tough to stay mute in face of such misinformation and ignorance.

I had promised to keep off this worthless argument so i'd only touch on one aspect of your posts.

The nonsense about so called COMEBACK.

Every other aspect, I'd ignore you because they've been addressed over and over for the past 3 days and for the past 15 years as well.


This argument of "comeback " Is the biggest nonsense in the history of football.

A comeback is a problem you create for yourself.
Nobody creates that problem for you, Not UEFA, Not FIFA.

You could only speak of a player masterminding a comeback if and only if that player was missing the first leg(literally).

Figuratively speaking, a player does not go missing in the first leg,(like Ronaldo does severally) and then play excellently in the second leg and then you want to coman sing us some nonsense about a comeback.


Let's take the Wovesbourg game for instance!

How does Ronaldo participate in the team that loses the first leg by 2 Nil, but then wins the second by leg 3 Nil and then you want to give him special credit for the so called comeback?

Questions;
1. Was he suspended when his team was beaten 2 Nil?
2.. Was he sleeping when he was beaten 2 Nil?
3. Were his legs tied when he was beaten 2 Nil?

Same questions go for the Juve/Athletico game.

Did he not feature in the match where his team was spanked 2 Nil by Athletico?





Now let's do a typical example from the history books!


*Arsenal 2, Barca 2.
Barca 4, Arsenal 1.

Aggregate Barca 6, Arsenal 3.


*Athletico 2, Juventus 0.
Juventus 3, Athletico 0.

Aggregate Juventus 3, Athletico 2.


So you mean that it is sensible to give special credit to Juventus and Ronaldo in the above scenario because there was a "comeback?"


What manner of foolishness is this

Martinez39s:

It's not my fault that you don't understand my argument. No one is saying Messi hasn't performed against big teams; and no one is saying Ronaldo hasn't lost matches against big teams. What is wrong with you people? Can't you guys logically follow arguments? All I am saying is way more often than Messi, Ronaldo turns up when he is needed the most, even against big teams. Also, Ronaldo rarely chokes or bottle up things like Messi and his teammates have done on some occasions. Ronaldo has done this more frequently that football fans associate him with the big occasion and the man to call upon when the team needs a saviour.

In all the matches you and the other guy claimed Ronaldo choked, Ronaldo's team ended up winning. At least if Messi will choke, let his choking not give his team a defeat. Ronaldo has never choked and got defeated. Even against Chelsea, he scored in the match and Man Utd ended up


He didn't choke or bottle anything. Barça were simply the better side in those El Clasicos. By the way, Messi didn't lead Barça to win 4-0 at the Bernabeu, he didn't even score. Messi came as a sub in that match after Barcelona were 3-0 ahead (I think). Madrid's poor performance was due to Rafael Benitez. When he left and Zidane came, didn't Ronaldo score the winning goal at Camp Nou that same season in a 2-1 victory? Where was Messi? Messi didn't even score in the 5-0 victory, but he performed well just like others.

Stop lying. In 2011, Barcelona won 3-1 after losing 2-1 to Arsenal at the Emirates Stadium. Messi scored two goals. Before that, an unfair red card was given to Van Persie early in the second leg before Barcelona scored all their goals. Van Persie was causing a lot of problems for Barça's defence.

It was in 2010 that Messi scored four against Arsenal. Before that awesome display at Camp Nou, Barcelona drew 2-2 with Arsenal at the Emirates Stadium. Funny enough, Arsenal did a comeback after Ibrahimovic scored twice to make it 2-0. There was no comeback. Finally, Messi choking has cost his teams on many occasion, and he has bottled up a lot leading to his team's downfall. Same can't be said of Ronaldo. Also, Ronaldo, way more than Messi, has resurrected his team against tough opponents when all hope was lost, and when he was needed the most. We can agree to disagree. I won't argue with you again.

peterd53:
See Mumu excuse oo . Barca was better but Penaldo didn’t choke? Ogbeni ur mcm chokes big time. You claimed Messi didn’t score in d 5-0 dubbing but u fail to tell us he had two assists and the most chances created. Where was ur mcm two seasons ago at the Bernabeu losing 3-0 to Barca with Messi scoring once and assisting another. The games you claim Messi choked, you should have tell us the player with the most chances created in the 2nd leg games against Roma and Liverpool . You’re so biased bruh and a Penaldo as slicker. List the games Messi chokes and I’m sure Penaldo has x2 of it

Martinez39s:
Well, there is no need arguing with people who try to conflate simple defeats with the terms "choking" and "bottling up". You don't really understand these terms. "Choking" and "bottling up" don't just refer to any defeat and poor turnout from a player. The 5-0 defeat wasn't a choke or bottling up; it was a simple defeat by the the better team. FC Barcelona were the best team in the world at that time, and were almost unplayable. How can you be the best player on the planet and still choke and bottle up in matches in which you played for the better team and built huge advantages? Wasn't Argentina the better team when they faced Chile twice? They had their chances but Messi choked. In addition to building huge advantages, wasn't Barcelona the better team against Roma and Liverpool? Yet Messi choked and bottled up those matches. Way more often than Messi, Ronaldo turns up when he is needed the most, even against big teams. Also, Ronaldo rarely, if not never, chokes or bottle up things like Messi and his teammates have done on some occasions. Do you know how many times Ronaldo has masterminded comebacks or helped his team at very crucial moments when it mattered the most?

Let's take the game between Real Madrid and Juventus in 2018 to explain "choking". Ronaldo was given a late minute penalty to win. Had he missed, we could have said he "choked.''

peterd53:





You’re the one bringing up lame excuses for your mcm. You claim choking and bottling is losing to less superior team right?


Where was ur mcm against Greece in his own home land? He choked
Where was he against Dortmund? He chocked
Where was he against Lazio twice dz season? He choked
Where was he against Atalanta wen it matter most? He choked
Where was he against Lyon?? He choked
Where was he against Switzerland at euro 2008? He choked
Where was he when Lyon knocked out Madrid in the ucl 2010? He choked
Where was he against atm losing 4-0 ? He choked big time ...


I can go on and list many more but I won’t cuz you’re so biased

Jokerman:


If I were you I would keep quiet after my mcm played 4 finals and lost all

Martinez39s:
All players and teams cannot win every match but the ability to bounce back against all odds is remarkable. Don't act dumb on this. Any player that has repeatedly brought his team out of a hopeless situation is remarkable in indeed. As I have said, way more often than Messi, Ronaldo turns up when he is needed the most, even against big teams. Also, Ronaldo rarely chokes or bottle up things like Messi and his teammates have done on some occasions.

What may try to downplay the remarkable feat of a player masterminding a comeback against all odds, but has that player bottled up penalties that cost his national team two continental cup finals? Has that player ever been in a team that bottled up, more than once, huge leads and cost his team crashed out? In those moments, Ronaldo does not fail... ever. Even if Ronaldo loses a match, he wouldn't choke or bottle things up. Good night.

Melvyn11:

Or after bottling straight 4 champions league campaigns against Atletico, Juventus Roma and Liverpool. Ronaldo 41 champions league goals from quarterfinal to final while Messi just 16. The levels are staggering.

ddippset:
[s] Below is what STAGGERING is;

Messi;

Appearances 718
Goals 627
Assists 247
Penalties 73


Ronaldo;

Appearances 836
Goals 627
Assists 193
Penalties 110


Now this is staggering. I swear you guys simply have no shame. [/s]

Melvyn11:

This one is always yarning okoto meow.

ddippset:
It is very very very very tough to stay mute in face of such misinformation and ignorance.

I had promised to keep off this worthless argument so i'd only touch on one aspect of your posts.

The nonsense about so called COMEBACK.

Every other aspect, I'd ignore you because they've been addressed over and over for the past 3 days and for the past 15 years as well.


This special tag given to any player.in the name of a "comeback" is the biggest nonsense/scam in the history of football. Moreso when such a player was part of the team which choked in the first leg.

A comeback is a problem you create for yourself.
Nobody creates that problem for you, Not UEFA, Not FIFA.

You could only speak of a player masterminding a comeback if and only if that player was missing the first leg(literally).

Figuratively speaking, a player does not go missing in the first leg,(like Ronaldo does severally) and then play excellently in the second leg and then you want to coman sing us some nonsense about a comeback.


Let's take the Wovesbourg game for instance!

How does Ronaldo participate in the team that loses the first leg by 2 Nil, but then wins the second by leg 3 Nil and then you want to give him special credit for the so called comeback?

Questions;
1. Was he suspended when his team was beaten 2 Nil?
2.. Was he sleeping when he was beaten 2 Nil?
3. Were his legs tied when he was beaten 2 Nil?

Same questions go for the Juve/Athletico game.

Did he not feature in the match where his team was spanked 2 Nil by Athletico?





Now let's do a typical example from the history books!


*Arsenal 2, Barca 2.
Barca 4, Arsenal 1.

Aggregate Barca 6, Arsenal 3.


*Athletico 2, Juventus 0.
Juventus 3, Athletico 0.

Aggregate Juventus 3, Athletico 2.

The Aggregate is key.


So you mean that it is sensible to give special credit to Juventus and Ronaldo in the above scenario because there was a "comeback?"


What manner of foolishness is this

Melvyn11:

This one is always yarning okoto meow.

ddippset:
[s] As usual.

His fingers have "choked".

Empty head.. [/s].

pu7pl3:


Guy, I mean, like very consistently...it's really baffling

pu7pl3:


If this isn't the dumbest arguement ever made in the history of arguements I don't know what is...Geez

Melvyn11:

That guy is the hulk616 of this thread.

ddippset:
[s] You must think of this as a punchline.
Cus you must have said it a thousand times and no one seems to pay any attention to it.



Chai, punchlines don suffer. [/s]

ddippset:
You must think of this as a punchline.
Cus you must have said it a thousand times and no one seems to pay any attention to it.



Chai, punchlines don suffer.

ddippset:
As usual.

His fingers have "choked".

Empty head...

Expert17:


TOUGH mehn..................pity the damn nigga

ddippset:
lol

Dude has spit that line like a million times,

No one pays attention..

So now he' sounding like my old Eminem CD that got broken.

Melvyn11:

That guy is the hulk616 of this thread.

Lmao

ddippset:
P square is back!

Purple Pusssy....

Fucck off!

See am e done see me come dey cry already
This early morning

Expert17:


They like comparing with rubbish stuffs.......
Comebacks
Played for different clubs

Who the Bleep, cares abt that

pu7pl3:


Billions of world people do care about that

Expert17:


The Billions should try and make Ronaldo win 6 world best or win golden boot in Italy

ddippset:
Stop talking thrash.

Just 3 examples off the top of my head.

1. Real Madrid were thrashing Barcelona 3-0 at Bernabeau when a 19 year old Messi came in and made it 3-3.
At 19!

2. Sevilla were leading Barca 3 Nil when Messi came in with 30 minutes to go to make it 3-3.

3. A.C. Milan were lead in Barca 2-0 from the first leg when Messi came up with 2 goals and an assist in the second leg to turn it around with a 4 Nil thrashing.

Nothing like bounce back!

You guys need to quit with this comeback nonsense.
There are a thousand and one things to determine the best footballer;
GOALS, ASSISTS, TROPHIES, AWARDS, TECHNIQUE, etc

Don't jump and coman start telling us about comeback.

Comeback my black asss!

Martinez39s:
This is a big lie! Is it that you Barca fans are liars or you guys don't remember your matches. In the 3-3 draw at Camp Nou in the 2006/07 season, Madrid were not thrashing Barça 3-0. Ruud Vanisterooy scored first then Messi scored to make it 1-1; Vanisterooy then scored a penalty before made it 2-2 after scoring from a Ronaldinho's rebound. Ramos made it 3-2 before Messi scored late to make it 3-3. Get the facts about your club right.

This is another lie. The game ended 2-2 at Sevilla even though Barcelona came back from a 2-0 deficit with goals from Suarez and Messi. However, that match wasn't a crucial match that Messi was needed the most and FC Barcelona would have still won the La Liga if they have lost the match.

What part of "WAY MORE OFTEN THAN MESSI" don't you understand? That statement doesn't imply that Messi has never helped his team to comeback. Haba! You clearly haven't been following my argument since I started commenting on this thread.

It seems you guys don't know the meaning of choking. You guys are also leaving out the fact that unlike Ronaldo, Messi and his teams on many occasions have bottled things up.


Keep fooling yourself. The Liverpool comeback at Anfield is what then? There is something like comeback and there is reason why everyone regarded that semifinal as a miracle. Comebacks are amazing, and even more amazing when orchestrated by a single player. There is a reason why that Anfiels comeback and bottling up by Messi and his team painfully lingered in the memory of Barça fans for a long time until many experience revenge vicariously through Atletico Madrid when Atletico knocked out Liverpool this season. Keep fooling yourself. If there is nothing like comeback, what do you call the 6-1 victory at Camp Nou against PSG?

If Liverpool were leading 3-0 in the first leg and Barca came back with Messi scoring four goals, you and other Barca would have masturbated over that and called Messi the GOAT. Maybe you guy aren't used to the Ronaldo's kind of comeback and saviour complex at crucial moments, hence you talk like this.

Messi is better than Ronaldo, but you are missing my argument. Here is my clarifying post on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/669609/fc-barcelona-fan-thread-mes/3951#87937503

My argument isn't about who is the better player.