samuk:
[s]Does the lady of fraud still stand by the above lies and misinformation? You almost got away with this. …

What do you have to say for yourself now that you have been caught pants down.

I repeat names of Benin Obas were documented by Europeans before oba Ovonramwen in 1897 and none of the Oba had Yoruba names. …[/s]

CRAP!

Show me any of these name in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or in any pre-1897 writing of Benin history whatsoever). Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

samuk:
[s] … You copy and paste junks knowing too well that most guys here on nairaland lacks common sense to interrogate your write ups.

Most guys are below average in their thinking abilities and you capitalise on this by overwhelming them with copy and paste that most of them can't read, even some that can read them hardly understand the long gibberish. Even when a location says east and you told them the text actually means west, some of these guys are so dense that they believe you.

You chum out garbage and lies with such authority that the less informed and ignorant are easily misled, misinformed and deceived. …

You pretend to know Benin history, but you don't. Your knowledge of Benin history doesn't go beyond the fairytales that were told between 1897 to 1960. Your knowledge of Benin history begins and ends in this 66 years difficult period in Benin history.[/s]

The Devastating Refutation:

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

Cc: nisai

TAO12:

The Devastating Refutation:

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

Cc: nisai

You are only clever by half, are you the one to provide me with a list you drawn up and asked me to show you the names within your list.

Below is your claim:

TAO12:
PS:
Throughout the centuries of interaction between the Europeans and the southern “Nigeria” area, including Benin kingdom, there is no single record of a name of any Benin king.

Peace!

Cc: nisai

Do you still stand by your above claim.

I must warn you that name of Benin Oba was recorded by Europeans before the fall of Benin in 1897.

I stand by it 100% because to a Yoruba free-born, [the latter] periods of conquest of “Nigeria” is not one and the same as [the prior] periods of interaction.

You must be a natural slave if “interaction” means one and the same thing as “conquest” to you.

I’m not surprised. You’re an Edo. So, conquering you may be one and the same as interacting with you.

samuk:
[s]You are only clever by half, are you the one to provide me with a list you drawn up and asked me to show you the names within your list.

Below is your claim:

Do you still stand by your above claim[/s]

As such, your attempt at being my secretary turns out to be a misery for you. So, CRAP!

Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or in any pre-1897 writing of Benin history whatsoever).

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

The Devastating Refutation:

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

TAO12:
I stand by it 100% because to a Yoruba free-born, [the latter] periods of conquest of “Nigeria” is not one and the same as [the prior] periods of interaction.

You must be a natural slave if “interaction” means one and the same thing as “conquest” to you.

I’m not surprised. You’re an Edo. So, conquering you may be one and the same as interacting with you.

As such, your attempt at being my secretary turns out to be a misery for you. So, CRAP!

Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or in any pre-1897 writing of Benin history whatsoever).

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

What nonsense are you saying. You boldly said no Nigeria or Benin king was named by Europeans during the year of interactions.

I say you are a big liar because the Europeans were in Benin Palace to interact with the Oba of Benin. The name of Oba of Benin was recorded down and this was decades before Benin was conquered by the British in 1897.

All you need to do is admit that your initial statement was wrong and let me lecture you.

TAO12:
I stand by it 100% because to a Yoruba free-born, [the latter] periods of conquest of “Nigeria” is not one and the same as [the prior] periods of interaction.

You must be a natural slave if “interaction” means one and the same thing as “conquest” to you.

I’m not surprised. You’re an Edo. So, conquering you may be one and the same as interacting with you.

As such, your attempt at being my secretary turns out to be a misery for you. So, CRAP!

Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or in any pre-1897 writing of Benin history whatsoever).

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

What nonsense are you saying. You boldly said no Nigeria or Benin king was named by Europeans during the years of interactions.

TAO12:
PS:
Throughout the centuries of interaction between the Europeans and the southern “Nigeria” area, including Benin kingdom, there is no single record of a name of any Benin king.

Shall we then be foolish like you to pretend to reach the inane conclusion that Benin began to have kings on recently — or that Benin kings (if they exist) never had names?

Peace!

Cc: nisai

I say you are a big liar because the Europeans were in Benin Palace to interact with the Oba of Benin. The name of Oba of Benin was recorded down and this was decades before Benin was conquered by the British in 1897.

All you need to do is admit that your initial statement was wrong and let me lecture you.

You still ended up chatting CRAP.

(1) The period of the Europeans’ interaction with the southern “Nigeria” area relates to the period when the Portuguese, the Dutch, the French, et al. came as traders, travelers, explores, etc.

The period under consideration is thus somewhere in between the late-1400s up to around the mid-1800s.

These European explorers, traders, and travelers did not visit for the purpose of colonial conquest.

(2) In contrast, the period of colonial interest began in the very early-1800s. And the actual colonization first began in the mid-1800s.

So, there is a clear and sharp distinction between the periods of interaction (from explores, traders, etc. who clearly didn’t attempt a colonial government) and the period of conquest (from the British who initiated the actual conquest of in the mid-1800s).

As such, you’ve been asked to show us just one name of your oba which was documented during the period of European interaction with the southern “Nigeria” area.

You must realize, in your best interest, that my words are always chosen with utmost care and precision. I don’t type just to be seen typing as you do.

samuk:
[s]What nonsense are you saying. You boldly said no Nigeria or Benin king was named by Europeans during the years of interactions.
I say you are a big liar because the Europeans were in Benin Palace to interact with the Oba of Benin. The name of Oba of Benin was recorded down and this was decades before Benin was conquered by the British in 1897.

All you need to do is admit that your initial statement was wrong and let me lecture you. You can't con and wiggle your way out this. Name of Benin oba was written down by Europeans during the years of interactions.

Admit your flaws and allow me to lecture you. Numerous of your supporters are waiting to learn real history not your lies.[/s]

Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or any pre-1897 writing of Benin history for that matter).

[Mind you, these are your supposed obas who are said to have ruled between the late-1200s and circa 1816 — i.e. not extending into the start of British imperialism in the “southern” Nigeria area.]

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

You still ended up chatting CRAP.

(1) The period of the Europeans’ interaction with the southern “Nigeria” area relates to the period when the Portuguese, the Dutch, the French, et al. came as traders, travelers, explores, etc.

The period under consideration is thus somewhere in between the late-1400s up to around the mid-1800s.

These European explorers, traders, and travelers did not visit for the purpose of colonial conquest.

(2) In contrast, the period of colonial interest began in the very early-1800s. And the actual colonization first began in the mid-1800s.

So, there is a clear and sharp distinction between the periods of interaction (from explores, traders, etc. who clearly didn’t attempt a colonial government) and the period of conquest (from the British who initiated the actual conquest of in the mid-1800s).

As such, you’ve been asked to show us just one name of your oba which was documented during the period of European interaction with the southern “Nigeria” area.

You must realize, in your best interest, that my words are always chosen with utmost care and precision. I don’t type just to be seen typing as you do.

samuk:
[s]What nonsense are you saying. You boldly said no Nigeria or Benin king was named by Europeans during the years of interactions.
I say you are a big liar because the Europeans were in Benin Palace to interact with the Oba of Benin. The name of Oba of Benin was recorded down and this was decades before Benin was conquered by the British in 1897.

All you need to do is admit that your initial statement was wrong and let me lecture you. You can't con and wiggle your way out this. Name of Benin oba was written down by Europeans during the years of interactions.

Admit your flaws and allow me to lecture you. Numerous of your supporters are waiting to learn real history not your lies.[/s]

Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or any pre-1897 writing of Benin history for that matter).

[Mind you, these are your supposed obas who are said to have ruled between the late-1200s and circa 1816 — i.e. not extending into the start of British imperialism in the “southern” Nigeria area.]

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

TAO12:
You still ended up chatting CRAP.

(1) The period of the Europeans’ interaction with the southern “Nigeria” area relates to the period when the Portuguese, the Dutch, the French, et al. came as traders, travelers, explores, etc.

The period under consideration is thus somewhere in between the late-1400s up to around the mid-1800s.

These European explorers, traders, and travelers did not visit for the purpose of colonial conquest.

(2) In contrast, the period of colonial interest began in the very early-1800s. And the actual colonization first began in the mid-1800s.

So, there is a clear and sharp distinction between the periods of interaction (from explores, traders, etc. who clearly didn’t attempt a colonial government) and the period of conquest (from the British who initiated the actual conquest of in the mid-1800s).

As such, you’ve been asked to show us just one name of your oba which was documented during the period of European interaction with the southern “Nigeria” area.

You must realize, in your best interest, that my words are always chosen with utmost care and precision. I don’t type just to be seen typing as you do.


Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or any pre-1897 writing of Benin history for that matter).

[Mind you, these are your supposed obas who are said to have ruled between the late-1200s and circa 1816 — i.e. not extending into the start of British imperialism in the “southern” Nigeria area.]

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

Until you are ready to humble yourself, I leave you with your limited knowledge.

samuk:
Until you are ready to humble yourself, I leave you with your limited knowledge.

The idiot wants to run-away as usual ni sha. Come back here, ọmọ ẹrú [ibiẹdo]

Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or any pre-1897 writing of Benin history for that matter).

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

Let me quietly say something in this argument, because I see our Benin brothers have (once again, as they always do) dragged Onitsha into their 'feud' with our Yoruba brothers.

Yes, the Obi of Onitsha uses the title Agbogidi, which is an Edo word. Some other kings in Anioma whose monarchies are imitations of the Benin system also use it.

Yes, titles of Edo pedigree (Iyasele, etc) are used in Onitsha. Again, Edo titles are widely copied in Anioma and a handful of towns in the east (such as Oguta and Onitsha) which have ties in Anioma.

However, the deity called Udo has no relationship with the Edo town called Udo at all. Repeat: Udo (deity) and Udo (Edo settlement) have no relationship AT ALL.

The root '-do' is a bonafide Igbo root contained in many Igbo words. It connotes 'conciliation', 'repair', 'build up'.

Thus, 'udo' in Igbo is 'peace', 'dozie' in Igbo is 'repair', 'do aja' in Igbo means to 'build a wall', 'kpedo' in Igbo is 'to reconcile'.

Udo is the Igbo deity of peaceful co-existence, social cohesion and civic responsibility; and is widely worshipped in Anambra State, especially the Nri-Awka area.

Amanke Okafor in his book 'The Awka People' wrote: "Udo... [is the] god supervising morals and peaceful co-existence" (page 76).

Onitsha people adopted it when they came to the east, just as they adopted the Ozo title when they came to the east. And speaking of titles, in Igboland there is a strong connection between the Udo deity and title-taking in the Nri-Awka area, which explains why/how it is found in Onitsha alongside Ozo title: na part of one and the same cultural baggage.

Udo deity and shrine served as an agent of socialization, which is why when a man takes a title, it is the Eze Udo (priest of Udo) that educates the inductee on societal do's and dont's.

I've been seeing Edo people claiming the Udo in Onitsha is a deification of an Edo town. I never see where a whole town was deified before oh. So some people will be somewhere worshipping Ibadan or Auchi or Tokyo. Wawu! I said I should point it out now before this piece of falsehood becomes codified in Edo historical orthodoxy, because e no dey hard them to turn a lie into a 'truth' (Cf. 'the Oduduwa is Ekalederhan' lie amongst others.)

PS: Udo shrines were also taken into areas of Anioma like Ogwashi and Ibusa (where you will find some Ani-Udo) by Nri ritual agents. The traditions of Ogwashi and Ibusa are not even ambiguous about Udo being introduced by Nri agents. It is explicit in their traditions. In Anioma, Udo is also involved in title-taking rites, just as in the east.

Below is the Igbo version of Benin/Ife relationship. Only this time it's called Benin/Nri relationship.

Invasion and attack on Benin history is from both east and west. Benin people are left defending their history all year round from ethnic revisionists from both east and west who often collaborate and lend each others support.

This is what Benin have to suffer for being a great and powerful kingdom/empire sandwiched between east, north and west. I understand the Igalas also have their own version of Benin/Igala relationship where the Oba of Benin was said to be an Igala man.

The eastern and western revisionist see Benin who are defending their history as the enemies and aggressors. Igbo and Yoruba liars collaborate to call Benin people who they are trying to steal their history liars.

Looking at both revisionist Benin/Ife and Benin/Nri relationships, the Benin/Nri sounds more plausible on several fronts which are not limited to shared common words and traditions. Even the eastern Organe TAO11 has been trying to move west sounds more Igbo than Ooni, Oduduwa, Ife or Oranmiyan . I am sure TAO11 have heard of the Igbo traditional Ogene dance.

I must admit the Igbos put more efforts in their version than the Yorubas. The Yorubas have to go back to the drawing board to be taken seriously.

If the Igbos want to stretch their claims further, they could even twist some Oba of Benin names to sound Igbos.

Unfortunately the Yoruba doesn't have this advantage because those Benin Obas names bear no semblance to Yoruba names and no amount of linguistic acrobatics will make them sound Yoruba .

PS: The guy above me has problems with English comprehension. Sharing common words or common words appearing in both Benin and Igbo language does not mean or translate into a town being deified.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4xXMdK8HYQ



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytmPqtA65YY

samuk:


PS: The guy above me has problems with English comprehension. Sharing common words or common words appearing in both Benin and Igbo language does not mean or translate into a town being deified.

Mai fren, mention me with your chest!
What are you afraid of? Benin boys I know don't fear anybody. Must be an Urhue thing.

And don't be sleek. You know what you wrote. You know you were not implying that Benin and Igbo languages shared 'udo' in common; you were implying that Onitsha took Udo from Udo town in Edo. Don't change mouth now because someone who actually knows the history of Udo deity has called you out.

Are you not the one that made the comment in this screenshot below? Were you also talking of words shared in common there?

I have repeated this to you severally oh you ibiẹdo:

No serious knowledge-seeking person would forsake the conclusion of the world’s historical scholarship on African history for the opinions of laypersons as in the videos you posted.

The conclusion of historical scholarship on the topic in question is as submitted in my comment below, and as summarized in the first attachment below.

I am not aware of any Igbo who have read this and yet not agree that your Oba of Benin is a Yoruba man. See the second attachment for a testimony.

samuk:
[s]Below is the Igbo version of Benin/Ife relationship. Only this time it's called Benin/Nri relationship.

Invasion and attack on Benin history is from both east and west. Benin people are left defending their history all year round from ethnic revisionists from both east and west who often collaborate and lend each others support.

The eastern and western revisionist see Benin who are defending their history as the enemies and aggressors. Igbo and Yoruba liars collaborate to call Benin people who they are trying to steal their history liars.

Looking at both revisionist Benin/Ife and Benin/Nri relationships, the Benin/Nri sounds more plausible on several fronts which are not limited to shared common words and traditions. Even the eastern Organe TAO11 has been trying to move west sounds more Igbo than Ooni, Oduduwa, Ife or Oranmiyan .

I must admit the Igbos put more efforts in their version than the Yorubas. The Yorubas have to go back to drawing board to be taken seriously. If the Igbos want to stretch their claims further, they could even twist some Oba names to sound Igbos. The Yoruba unfortunately doesn't have this advantage because those Benin oba names bear no semblance to Yoruba names and no amount of linguistic acrobatics will make them sound Yoruba .

https://www.youtube.com./watch?v=i4xXMdK8HYQ


https://www.youtube.com./watch?v=ytmPqtA65YY[/s]

Moreover, I’m curious to hear from samuk the obese midget why several of the patrilineal Benin princes of Itsekiri (the kings of Itsekiri) have Portuguese, Itsekiri, and Yoruba names — instead of Bini names.

Could it be that these rulers of Itsekiri were originally patrilineally from Portugal considering the names of these kings? May be it’s a Portugal/Itsekiri relationship after all, and not a Benin/Itsekiri relationship. /s

The Devastating Refutation:
Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

RedboneSmith:


Mai fren, mention me with your chest!
What are you afraid of? Benin boys I know don't fear anybody. Must be an Urhue thing.

And don't be sleek. You know what you wrote. You know you were not implying that Benin and Igbo languages shared 'udo' in common; you were implying that Onitsha took Udo from Udo town in Edo. Don't change mouth now because someone who actually knows the history of Udo deity has called you out.

Are you not the one that made the comment in this screenshot below? Were you also talking of words shared in common there?

Guy, the last time I mentioned you, you threatened to unleash all the juju in your village. I laughed and asked if any black man or Nigeria can threaten a Benin person with juju, I thought you guys said we are the headquarters of those things

samuk:


Guy, the last time I mentioned you, you threatened to unleash all the juju in your village. I laughed and asked if any black man or Nigeria can threaten a Benin person with juju, I thought you guys said we are the headquarters of those things

Yes. I did. And I will carry out that threat if you ever lie against me again. I detest lies. Other than that, we are good. What happens here is just bants.

You come from Benin, but Illah man juju scared you so badly, you ran away from his mentions.

TAO12:


No serious knowledge-seeking person would forsake the conclusion of the world’s historical scholarship on African history for the opinions of laypersons as in the videos you posted.

The conclusion of historical scholarship on the topic in question is as submitted in my comment below, and as summarized in the first attachment below.

I am not aware of any Igbo who have read this and yet not agree that your Oba of Benin is a Yoruba man. See the second attachment for a testimony.

Peace!

What nonsense did you just write. Is this not how your own Benin/Ife relationship started?

Since you haven't see an Igbo man that doesn't think Oba of Benin is Yoruba, go to Agueleri and Nri to go and talk that trash. I just showed you two videos of Igbo version of Benin/Nri relationship, you are still saying you haven't see any Igbo who doesn't think Oba of Benin is not Yoruba, are those men in that video not Igbos.

You can only deceive gullible Igbo on nairaland.

Your Benin/Ife fallacy was developed from oral history, none of your so called experts were witnesses to it. Infact there wasn't Benin/Ife relationship before 1897. The Organe which was mentioned in Benin history in the 15th century was said to be east of Benin. If there is any plausibility with the story of Organe (which I doubt) I would say it sounds more Igbo than your western Ooni.

RedboneSmith:


Yes. I did. And I will carry out that threat if you ever lie against me again. I detest lies. Other than that, we are good. What happens here is just bants.

You come from Benin, but Illah man juju scared you so badly, you ran away from his mentions.

You are now contradicting yourself, you agreed earlier that nothing scares Benin guys.

By the way, no serious Igbo historian has ever claimed the Obas are of Igbo origin.

We should learn to separate what lay people and trolls say/write on the internet from what scholars actually say. The Ooni of Ife has lent his voice to the claims that the aboriginal Igbo (Ugbo) of the Ife area were the same as the ethnic group of that name. I'm not going to go around saying that is the Yoruba postion on the Igbo/Ugbo because I saw a video of the Ooni saying it. No professional historian of Yoruba extraction has ever written that.

samuk:


You are now contradicting yourself, you agreed earlier that nothing scares Benin guys.

We have established that you are an exception, haven't we?

RedboneSmith:
By the way, no serious Igbo historian has ever claimed the Obas are of Igbo origin.

We should learn to separate what lay people and trolls say/write on the internet from what scholars actually say. The Ooni of Ife has lent his voice to the claims that the aboriginal Igbo (Ugbo) of the Ife area were the same as the ethnic group of that name. I'm not going to go around saying that is the Yoruba postion on the Igbo/Ugbo because I saw a video of the Ooni saying it. No professional historian of Yoruba extraction has ever written that.

I beg to disagree. I always insist on eyewitness historical accounts wherever it's available, anything less than this are assumptions of the writers who were not present to the events they write about.

These so called professional gather their primary materials from oral sources and it's very difficult to separate humans biases from the finished products or written works. If you read a story of a war from the Victor's perspective, you are more likely to be misled.

Are you aware that most of the movies produced by Hollywood as real life stories are usually less than 40 percent truthful. I am talking of events that happened in our life time not some 900 year ago as the Benin/Ife relationship fallacy.

There are several theories out there by experts on how the world began, they all have their possibilities. How many of what we taught years back as truth turned out to be lies.

Don't forget that experts once told us the world was flat. German scientists once conducted a study that says black people were less human compared to white people.

In any situation of conflicts such as the Benin/Ife relationship, the sensible thing is to demand eyewitness historical evidence. I bet the Benin/Ife relationship doesn't have such evidence supporting it.

You can't tell me the Oba of Benin is Yoruba when you can't show me a single Oba of Benin with a Yoruba name, no Benin prince/princess with Yoruba names. No oral or written accounts of Benin having any interaction with Ife for almost 800 years, 1100s to 1897.

Two Obas of Benin have come out to say they are not Yoruba. All I see with the Benin/Ife connection is superiority contest which have no historical evidence to back it up. I particularly don't see the evidence that supports it either from the Benin or the Yoruba side.

You must be really dead-scared to quote and address all my comment. Address my comment point for point. Go toe to toe with me.

samuk:
[s]What nonsense did you just write. Is this not how your own Benin/Ife relationship started?

Since you haven't see an Igbo man that doesn't think Oba of Benin is Yoruba, go to Agueleri and Nri to go and talk that trash. I just showed you two videos of Igbo version of Benin/Nri relationship, you are still saying you haven't see any Igbo who doesn't think Oba of Benin is not Yoruba, are those men in that video not Igbos.

You can only deceive gullible Igbo on nairaland[/s]

Again, here are some of the scholars of African history (among all others who also reach the same conclusion anyways) who have reached the conclusion that IFE was suzerain over Benin kingdoms (as shown in the attachment below) and that the kings of Benin a pateilineally Yorubas.

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

Name me one [b]scholar of African histor[/b]y who have reached the conclusion that Nri (or any Igbo state) was suzerain over Benin or that your obas are patrilineally Igbos. You have this one job. Just one. So do it.

If you can’t, then stop comparing the conclusion of historical scholarship with the opinion of laypersons.

Peace!

samuk:


I beg to disagree. I always insist on eyewitness historical accounts wherever it's available, anything less than this are assumptions of the writers who were not present to the events they write about.

These so called professional gather their primary materials from oral sources and it's very difficult to separate humans biases from the finished products or written works. If you read a story of a war from the Victor's perspective, you are more likely to be misled.

Are you aware that most of the movies produced by Hollywood as real life stories are usually less than 40 percent truthful. I am talking of events that happened in our life time not some 900 year ago as the Benin/Ife relationship fallacy.

There are several theories out there by experts on how the world began, they all have their possibilities. How many of what we taught years back as truth turned out to be lies.

Don't forget that experts once told us the world was flat. German scientists once conducted a study that says black people were less human compared to white people.

In any situation of conflicts such as the Benin/Ife relationship, the sensible thing is to demand eyewitness historical evidence. I bet the Benin/Ife relationship doesn't gave such evidence supporting it.

You can't tell me the Oba of Benin is Yoruba when you can't show me a single Oba of Benin with a Yoruba name, no Benin prince/princess with Yoruba names. No oral or written accounts of Benin having any interaction with Ife for almost 800 years, 1100s to 1897.

Two Obas of Benin have come out to say they are not Yoruba. All I see with the Benin/Ife connection is superiority contest which have no historical evidence to back it up. I particularly don't see the evidence that supports it either from the Benin or the Yoruba side.

Huh? I wasn't even suggesting professional historians are always right. Historians amend their positions regularly as they gain more data. Which is why a history book written in 1950 will probably be out of date in 2021.

I only talked about separating the opinion of random people from the opinion of trained professionals, in reaction to your post about random Igbos claiming the Obas are Igbo.

I thought I was the one who was supposed to have comprehension problems.

TAO12:
You must be really dead-scared to quote and address all my comment. Address my comment point for point. Go toe to toe with me.

Again, here are some of the scholars of African history (among all others who also reach the same conclusion anyways) who have reached the conclusion that IFE was suzerain over Benin kingdoms (as shown in the attachment below) and that the kings of Benin a pateilineally Yorubas.

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

Name me one [b]scholar of African histor[/b]y who have reached the conclusion that Nri (or any Igbo state) was suzerain over Benin or that your obas are patrilineally Igbos. You have this one job. Just one. So do it.

If you can’t, then stop comparing the conclusion of historical scholarship with the opinion of laypersons.

Peace!

I don't address lies. The Organe you continue to point to as your evidence of Benin/Ife relationship in the 1500s was said to be situated in a location east of Benin. Ife/Ooni domain is west of Benin.

You want me to believe east is west when the document clearly stated east, sorry I am not dumb and stupid. God gave some of us brains and common sense.

Your Organe evidence says east not west, this completely ruled Ife out, no so called experts can tell me east is west.

Organe in it's other forms is what you want me to believe as evidence of Benin/Ife relationship for almost 800 years.

RedboneSmith:


Huh? I wasn't even suggesting professional historians are always right. Historians amend their positions regularly as they gain more data. Which is why a history book written in 1950 will probably be out of date in 2021.

I only talked about separating the opinion of random people from the opinion of trained professionals, in reaction to your post about random Igbos claiming the Obas are Igbo.

I thought I was the one who was supposed to have comprehension problems.

I went elaborate not to give room for anyone to capitalise on your statement as supporting their position and even if you were tacitly, you were supposed to see the flaws in your argument.

I am sure you know I don't believe the Igbo version more than the Yoruba version. I only referenced the Igbo version for emphasis. Yoruba and later day western writers can't be believed completely.

The British have been honest enough to admit that most of what they wrote about Benin starting from the 1860s were grossly exaggerated and sometimes lies, it was to convince the British government and people for the need to depose the Oba of Benin they saw as a stumbling block and barrier to their trade interests in the region.

Most of what the British wrote about Benin starting from the 1860 was to give a dog a bad name in order to hang it. This is what their official government archives says.

Stop tricking your mind by saying TAO said Ogane is Ooni.

I dare you to say it how it is — i.e. that the scholars of African history today unanimously said that Ogane is the Ooni; the Ooni is overlord over Benin kingdom; and the Benin kings are patrilineally Yoruba.

As regards the use of the word “east” refer below. Do not be scared.

samuk:
[s]I don't address lies. The Organe you continue to point to as your evidence of Benin/Ife relationship in the 1500s was said to be situated in a location east of Benin. Ife/Ooni domain is west of Benin.

You want me to believe east is west when the document clearly stated east, sorry I am not dumb and stupid. God gave some of us brain and common sense.

Your Organe evidence says east not west, this completely ruled Ife out, no so called experts can tell me east is west.

Organe in it's other forms is what you want me to believe as evidence of Benin/Ife relationship for almost 800 years.[/s]

The Devastating Refutation:

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

OneNigerian:
There was no time when it was mentioned in early Bini history that they were initiated or influenced by Ile Ife. In reality Ile Ife did not even exist as a village in the time of Sacred Eweka the first warrior god king of Bini . The British destroyed a capital of an empire and realised that the people of that empire survived their genocide and have many little kingdoms and chiefdoms that originated from Bini and the Bini would live in them forever so they distorted reality by saying an advanced ancient civilisation came from a very young one. But they stole over 1.5 million Bini art works and bronzes they couldn’t destroy because they were so advanced that the ancestors of white people lacked the knowledge and skills to make them. They are all hidden in museum votes. They document the History of Bini and everyone of them tells a story. The closets they came to mentioning the Yoruba would be that part of Yoruba land belongs to the Bini empire including their kings like the Deji of Akure. It’s these people the OYIBO’s used to destroy Bini history but they failed 100 percent. Just because you ignorant people talk rubbish on here does not make it history. Go write a book about it and see how the credibility of that book would be tarnished in minutes as a work of fiction. Fiction (what you guys talk here about Bini) is different from historical facts and stop quoting the last 300 years history. The current Bini Oba is a direct descendant of a family that has ruled Bini since before Jesus Christ was born. And his family is the second dynasty of Bini which even goes back before the days when the people that became Binis were ruled in Greek style democracy. That is an advanced political system of government by a United people who has an identity even before Eweka decided to kick all their butts and forced their evolution into an empire for easier administration. How old is Ile Ife and the Yorubas and at what point did the Yoruba reach a cultural evolution whereby they had a traditional political identity? After Oduduwa who was never a Yoruba Nan but an Arab or Bini man according to your history? So how can Oduduwa and his bloodline take civilisation back to the very civilisation that produced in him the first place? Given the fact that he became the paramount or dominant king of Yoruba land having dominion over Yoruba land and the Yoruba people and giving his children or grandchildren crowns at will to go and rule over the Yorubas who were way too weak militarily to challenge or disobey him. This was simply because they Yorubas were not that advanced before he came to then with some sort of army apparently. Only Bini women favoured by their Oba can have an army large enough to be given to their son as a gift can afford that in that time line. It takes wealth and great resources to just provide for such a military even today let alone just gift them to someone. It’s like giving part of the Nigerian army and it’s equipment to someone and saying keep this forever, go and kick butt somewhere else. Live and not die and have dominion. How can you now say that person now came back and brought civilisation to Nigeria? Did your mothers drop you guys on the head as babies? I hope I have put this stupid argument to bed? It’s become irritating at the lack of analytical and logical reasoning or intelligence of people who want to put a stamp on history without thinking about the holes in their story. The Yoruba collective is not half as advanced as bibi. No where in Yoruba land was a city built that was 20 percent as magnificent or as rich as Bini city 500 years ago. Bini was like ancient Egypt or Babylon the great. Only I’m Ghana did we find a ciy like that because they had abs knew the value of gold too. And history says the Gaa people of Ghana were out there to settle the land as a seed for civilisation by Bini. Bini sailed the Atlantic Ocean long before the Yoruba learnt to build cities and it’s why Eko Lagos was built by the Bini empire before some powerful queens used their connection to gift it to their sons as it happened throughout Bini history. The warriors who returned home to the eternal city of Bini are usually tattooed first or needed sons with markings on their body before they depart so the seeds of bastards do not claim the eternal city. If a Yoruba man ever sat on any small Bini kingdom in the ancient times for any reason and his father is not Bini origin he would be killed and sacrificed to the gods of the land as an abomination and that is fact. You idiots do not understand or even have the intellectual capacity to process and understand Bini voodoo traditions let alone see how Bini men would bow and accept a bastard on the ancient sit of their god kings. The Binis still don’t make outsiders chiefs. The Oba give you beads instead. How can a people who still think an outsider should never be made a chief accept one as king? Think idiots, think. Any Igbos or Edo state and delta peoples who know Bini traditions please correct me if I am wrong about these Bini practices I have mentioned. Apologies for insulting people on this platform but when someone’s stupidity stun you like this one is so shocked that you have to come down to the level of children to explain stuffs to them and part with an insult because they are either very lazy in their views or simply biased and stupid.

So much contradictions in one post, I can't even start with the delusions


Which argument have you put to bed?
Analytical logical reasoning indeed

First, ife did not exist in the time of eweka but later oduduwa eweka's ancestor who ruled Ife is from Bini civilization.

Bini was practicing Greek democracy before the second dynasty took over but what about the first dynasty
abeg una dey ment in that Bini

Below is the story of Ogane mentioned in Benin history that TAO11 is claiming as Ooni/Ife.

For those that doesn't know the geographical location of Ife from Benin. Please be kindly informed that Ife is situated West of Benin.

1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that to the east of Beny at twenty moons' journey which according to their account, and the short journeys they make, would be about two hundred and fifty of our leauges there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. Among the pagan chiefs of the territories of Beny he was held in as great veneration as is the Supreme Pontif with us. In accordance with a very ancient custom, the king of Beny, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to him with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor he has succeeded to the kingdom of Beny, and to request confirmation. To signify his assent, the prince Ogané sends the king a staff and a headpiece of shining brass, fashioned like a Spanish helmet, in place of a crown and sceptre. He also sends a cross, likewise of brass, to be worn round the neck, a holy and religious emblem similar to that worn by the Knights of the Order of Saint John. Without these emblems the people do not recognize him as lawful ruler, nor can he call himself truly king. All the time this ambassador is at the court of Ogané, he never sees the prince, but only the curtains of silk behind which he sits, for he is regarded as sacred. When the ambassador is leaving, he is shown a foot below the curtains as a sign that the prince is within and agrees to the matters that he has raised; this foot they reverence as though it were a sacred relic.[/b] As a kind of reward for the hardships of such a journey the ambassador receives a small cross, similar to that sent to the king, which is thrown round his neck to signify that he is free and exempt from all servitudes, and privileged in his native country, as the Knights are with us.

Regarding the word “east”, read the devastating refutation below.

samuk:
Below is the story of Ogane mentioned in Benin history that TAO11 is claiming as Ooni/Ife.

1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that to the east of Beny ••• there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. •••

The Devastating Refutation:

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

Regarding the 20 moons’ journey, Ife was in fact 20 moons’ walking trip away from Benin. Read below:

samuk:
Below is the story of Ogane mentioned in Benin history that TAO11 is claiming as Ooni/Ife.

1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that ••• at twenty moons' journey which ••• would be about two hundred and fifty of our leauges there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané •••.

IFE is roughly about 174 miles away from Benin City.

However, the alleged distance of 900 miles is NOT mentioned anywhere in the text.

Instead, the distance between Benin City and the Ogane’s place [as given in the text] is 250 leagues.

However, this number (250 leagues) wasn’t obtained (by the Portuguese) from any Bini informant. This fact is extremely clear from the text itself.

In fact, the Binis who lived in the 1400s/1500s did not measure distance in leagues, miles, etc. As such, they couldn’t have given such information.

Instead, the Binis of the 1400s, 1500s, etc. measured distance in natural terms, e.g. on the basis of celestial bodies such as the Moon, etc.

Interestingly, the distance obtained from the Binis by the Portuguese was given in terms of the Moon. This is given in the text.

The Binis informed the Portuguese that it takes twenty (20) moons journey to go from Benin city to the Ogané’s place.

It was on the basis of this received information (i.e. 20 moons journey away) that the Portuguese imagined what the distance in “leagues” should be.

The distance in leagues was NOT received from the Binis. The text is clear on this. The W/African context is also clear on this.

Having said that, the natural question now becomes:

Is this number (20 moons journey from Benin City to the Ogane’s place) realistic for IFE if it is indeed the Ogane’s place??

In other words, could the distance from Benin City to Ile-Ife possibly have been twenty moons journey in some “traditional” terms? Let’s do the Maths on the basis of average numbers & the “traditional” context.

The data to be used for the Math is NOT on the basis of Google map’s algorithm which assumes a walking trip with zero tiredness, zero rests, zero stops, zero pauses, zero relaxations, zero camps, constant rapid pace, etc.

Instead, the data to be used is on the basis of the real life situation, average numbers, & traditional context.

Datum 1: C. G. Okojie’s “Ishan Native Laws and Customs,” p. 210. provides the first data as follows:

The walking trip from Uromi (in Ishan) to Benin City on a course of some 50 miles “traditionally” took an average of 5 months.

~ Cited in A.F.C. Ryder (1965), p.27.

Datum 2: IFE is roughly about 174 miles away from Benin City (even over the ancient Benin-Owo-Ife route).

These two data leave an answer of about 17.4 months [NOT moons] as the “traditional” walking time from Benin to Ife.

In other words, IFE is 17.4 months journey away from Benin city on the average “traditionally”.

Question: How many “moons” are 17.4 months equivalent to? To answer this, two pieces of data will be adduced.

Datum 3: It takes the Moon 27.322 days to go around the earth.

In other words, there are [exactly] about 27.322 days in one “moon”.

Datum 4: There is an average of 30.47 days in one month.

Summary:
(1) The “traditional” walking distance from Benin to Ile-Ife took an average of 17.4 months

(2) 17.4 months are equivalent to 530.178 days (i.e. 17.4 months * 30.47days per month).

(3) 530.178 days are equivalent to 19.4 moons (i.e. 530.178 days / 27.322 days per moon).

In conclusion, the facts and figures turn out to prove that the “traditional” trip from Benin city to Ile-Ife took an average of 19.4 moons.

This answer is therefore astoundingly accurate for all practical intents and purpose.

From this again, we see that Ife is indeed the place of the Ogané of the Portuguese text. The Bini informant knew exactly what he was talking about.

Peace!

Regarding the mention of “cross”.

samuk:
Below is the story of Ogane mentioned in Benin history that TAO11 is claiming as Ooni/Ife.

•••

1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that

•••

there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. In accordance with a very ancient custom, the king of Beny, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to him with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor he has succeeded to the kingdom of Beny, and to request confirmation. To signify his assent, the prince Ogané sends the king ••• a cross, likewise of brass, to be worn round the neck, a holy and religious emblem similar to that worn by the Knights of the Order of Saint John. Without these emblems the people do not recognize him as lawful ruler, nor can he call himself truly king.

•••

As a kind of reward for the hardships of such a journey the ambassador receives a small cross, similar to that sent to the king, which is thrown round his neck to signify that he is free and exempt from all servitudes, and privileged in his native country, as the Knights are with us.

There are many cross motif symbols in the arts of Ife which again proves Ife to be the place of the Ogane in d’Aveiro’s account in the recension of Joao de Barros. Robin Horton puts it down as follows:

“Thus we now have several examples of the Maltese-cross symbols on terra-cotta materials excavated at Ife*”

Robin Horton, “Ancient Ife: A Reassessment,” Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria,” Vol. 9. No.4, 1979, p.86.

Moreover, the following passage, showing the Oba of Benin’s address of morning prayers to his ancestors at Ife and Oyo also confirms the association of cross with Ife in particular and Yorubaland in general.

The account is recorded by Ward-Price who was on a visit to the then Oba of Benin. He writes:

“Following the Oba, I went through a heavy Iroko door, which opened into a long, narrow, corridor-like room, with a tall window at the other end. He showed me a brass crucifix which was attached to a cord around his neck, and waited for the first rays of the day to illumine the window, when he pressed the crucifix to his forehead, and prayed for the Oni of Ife, the Alaafin of Oyo and the Oba of Benin (that is himself), after which he prayed for all the other Yoruba kings. This had for long been the custom, he said, whether the Oba was Christian or not.”

H. L. Ward-Price, “Dark Subject,” 1939, p.238.

Peace!