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A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. - Culture - Nairaland

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Exposed Origin Of Oduduwa / Oduduwa Was Not Igbo Prince – Oluwo Of Iwo / The True Story Of Oduduwa (2) (3) (4)

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A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 10:54am On Sep 04, 2021
Oduduwa is widely accepted today as the common ancestor of most Yoruba monarchs/people and the Oba of Benin.

Questions:

1. Are there documented historical origin of Oduduwa.

2. Is there a documented historical evidence to back up Oduduwa ancestry of the aforementioned monarchs?

3. Was Oduduwa a mythical or historical figure in Yoruba history.

4. When did Oduduwa first appear in Benin documented history?

5. Do all Yoruba monarchs accept Oduduwa ancestry.

6. Was Oduduwa story historical or a political creation to first unite the Yoruba people and then Benin and Yoruba people.

Documented historical origin of Oduduwa:


The earliest known documented history of the origin of Oduduwa was told by Sultan Bello around the years 1822 - 1824. In that narrative, Sultan Bello told the story of how early Yoruba migrated from the middle east/Saudi Arabia.

This documented historical origin of Oduduwa remain so till 1897 when the first indigenous Yoruba author Samuel Johnson in his, the history of the Yoruba, argued that Oduduwa migrated from Egypt rather than Saudi Arabia, his arguments was based on the fact that he found no evidence that Saudi Arabia had an Oduduwa in their history.

The documented origin of Oduduwa remained that he migrated from the middle east, Saudi Arabia or Egypt until the 1970s.

In the 1970s, the Benin people through their monarch told the world that Oduduwa was the banished Benin prince Ekaladerhan who found his way to Ife and established the kingdom. Benin went on to date the period to the 1100s AD.

Few decades after Benin claim of Oduduwa being a Benin prince, the first documented Yoruba account of the origin of Oduduwa outside the middle eastern countries of Saudi Arabia and Egypt appeared. From the 1990s to 2010, some Yoruba authors claimed that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife.

For almost 200 years since the history of Oduduwa was first written down as narrated by Sultan Bello, Oduduwa was believed to have migrated from the middle east, numerous Yoruba historians, writers and authors have always traced Oduduwa to the middle east until recently.

Less than two decades after Sultan Bello narrative of Oduduwa being from the middle east, a Yoruba missionary Ajayi Crowder returned to Nigeria and started his missionary works in the 1840.

Since the 1840s, the Yorubas have been writing about themselves and didn't claim Oduduwa to be a native of Ife, it will take almost 200 years before some revisionist will argue that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife.

Documented evidence of Oduduwa ancestry of most Yoruba monarchs and Oba of Benin:


Until 1897 when the Yoruba historian Samuel Johnson wrote his, the history of the Yoruba, there was no documented earlier indigenous Yoruba account that traces all Yoruba Obas to Oduduwa.

The Ijebus is believed to have come in contact with the Europeans in the 1500s, the Alaafin of Oyo received his first European visitor in 1824 and there are hearsay European accounts of Oyo dating back to the 1700s, in all these accounts, I haven't seen any evidence were the various Yoruba tribes themselves claim Oduduwa as a common ancestor until late 1800s.

Oduduwa, a mythical or historical figure.

Early Yoruba historians such as C. C. Law in his book did confirm that there were Yoruba oral tradition that claim Oduduwa to be a myth rather than a historical figure. Their are Yoruba accounts that claimed Oduduwa to be a female deity.

Throughout the almost 200 years since the history of Oduduwa began in 1824, Oduduwa have variously been traced to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Benin prince, a native of Ife and Yoruba female deity.

When did Oduduwa first appear in Benin history

There is not a single historical evidence of Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife being mentioned in the over 400 years of eyewitness documented history of Benin until the fall of the old Benin empire in 1897.

Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife only appear for the first time in Benin history after the fall of Benin in 1897.


Do all Yoruba monarchs accept Oduduwa ancestry:


The Awujale of Ijebu is one of the notable Yoruba monarchs who do not subscribe to the Oduduwa/Ife common ancestry. The Awujale traces the migration of his people to Sudan.

Another notable Yoruba monarch that doesn't believe in the Oduduwa common ancestry of Yoruba Obas and people is Fredrick Obateru Akinruntan, the traditional ruler of Ugbo Kingdom, a town in Ilaje Local Government, Ondo State. He is an oil magnate and founder of Obat Oil, one of Nigeria's largest and leading privately held oil companies.

Oba Obateru argues that Oduduwa was a foreigner to Ife from Benin.

Was Oduduwa story historical or a political creation to first unite the Yoruba people and then Benin and Yoruba people.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by MightySparrow: 11:12am On Sep 04, 2021
History is a record of events that didn't happen, told by those who didn't witness them, for fool's to believe.
____Anonymous


The story of Oduduwa and many African history are more lies than reality. Africans can lie! Especially, when telling the story of their ancestry.
There is this story about a warlord in my town, who fought in Kiriji War. He was said to come home with the another man's head and face facing backwards.

What happened:
During one of the battles, he was headed, he frantically looked for an available head, picked one, on the battlefield, put on his neck the wrong way!

Ever since, his family never uses kola nut to appease their head but knees grin grin grin
None of either Yoruba or Benin histories about Oduduwa is absolutely believeable.

8 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 1:19pm On Sep 04, 2021
MightySparrow:
History is a record of events that didn't happen, told by those who don't witness them, for fool's to believe.
____Anonymous


The story of Oduduwa and many African history are more lies than reality. Africans can lie! Especially, when telling the story of their ancestry.
There is this story about a warlord in my town, who fought in Kiriji War. He was said to come home with the another man's head and face facing backwards.

What happened:
During one of the battles, he was headed, he frantically looked for an available head, picked one, on the battlefield, put on his neck the wrong way!

Ever since, his family never uses kola nut to appease their head but knees grin grin grin
None of either Yoruba or Benin histories about Oduduwa is absolutely believeable.


You are right, the Oduduwa story is a shared fairytale between Benin and Yoruba. There are accounts of Oduduwa climbing down from heaven with chains. The current Ooni claim that when the Ooni dies, they become Egyptian god Osiris, he also claimed that the 4th Ooni lived for 400 years before becoming a deity.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 7:46pm On Sep 04, 2021
(1) Europeans are believed to have visited the Nigeria coastal areas from around the 1470s/1480s.

(2) These Europeans documented virtually everything they observed/heard, including details from meetings.

(3) These Europeans made occasional visits to Benin kingdom itself to apparently meet the Benin kings.

(4) Recent Benin stories tell us that the following have ruled Benin from the beginning till circa 1848:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende


(5) Interestingly, none of these names feature as king of Benin in any writing of those Europeans.

(6) In fact, not even the red-highlighted names whom the Europeans are supposed to have met in person.

(7) Yet, from 1897 (and onward) some of these names began to feature in Benin stories/writings.

(8 ) Why didn’t the Europeans (who were on ground in Benin) document a thing on the above-listed names?

(9) A Benin m0r0n wants his fellow-morons to believe Oduduwa didn’t exist since his name isn’t written.

(10) Yet, the same Benin m0r0n (& his fellow morons) want to believe that the above-listed supposed Benin heroes existed — despite no single record of them.

(11) All these is despite that Oduduwa is supposed to have fluorished at a time when no European (or any writer) visited the Nigeria area.

(12) Also, all these is despite the fact that the above-listed names (the red-highlighted ones) are supposed to have flourished when Europeans visited them.

(13) IF Bini morons must exhibit natural ret@rdation, they should at least be ret@rded with consistency.

Peace! cheesy

Cc: MightySparrow, babaolofin

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by MightySparrow: 9:09pm On Sep 04, 2021
TAO11:
(1) Europeans are believed to have visited the Nigeria coastal areas from around the 1470s/1480s.

(2) These Europeans documented virtually everything they observed/heard and details from meetings.

(3) These Europeans made occasional visits to Benin kingdom itself to apparently meet the Benin kings.

(4) Recent Benin stories tell us that the following have ruled Benin from the beginning till circa 1848:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende


(5) Interestingly, none of these names feature as king of Benin in any writing of those Europeans.

(6) In fact, not even the red-highlighted names whom the Europeans are supposed to have met in person.

(7) Yet, from 1897 (and onward) some of these names began to feature in Benin stories/writings.

(8 ) Why didn’t the Europeans (who were on ground in Benin) document a thing on the above-listed names?

(9) A Benin m0r0n wants his fellow-morons to believe Oduduwa didn’t exist since his name isn’t written.

(10) Yet, the same Benin m0r0n (& his fellow morons) want to believe that the above-listed supposed Benin heroes existed — despite no single record of them.

(11) All these is despite that Oduduwa is supposed to have fluorished at a time when no European (or any writer) visited the Nigeria area.

(12) Also, all these is despite the fact that the above-listed names (the red-highlighted ones) are supposed to have flourished when Europeans visited them.

(13) IF Bini morons must exhibit natural ret@rdation, they should at least be ret@rded with consistency.

Peace! cheesy

@MightySparrow


Beautiful, my own take is African' s oral history is not reliable. Where, the Europeans came, the took some oral histories from the aborigines. Some documents are in Archive in University of Ibadan. The real believable history, however, is the recorded events under oyinbos supervision.

All others told orally or by iIfa or elders are lies

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 9:27pm On Sep 04, 2021
MightySparrow:



Beautiful, my own take is African' s oral history is not reliable. Where, the Europeans came, the took some oral histories from the aborigines. Some documents are in Archive in University of Ibadan. The real believable history, however, is the recorded events under oyinbos supervision.

All others told orally or by iIfa or elders are lies

This is the reason anyone that is serious about our true history must always insist on documented eyewitness historical accounts.

I don't know why anyone will take this personal. Africans deserve to know their true history not fairytales.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 9:29pm On Sep 04, 2021
MightySparrow:
Beautiful, my own take is African' s oral history is not reliable. Where, the Europeans came, the took some oral histories from the aborigines. Some documents are in Archive in University of Ibadan. The real believable history, however, is the recorded events under oyinbos supervision.

All others told orally or by iIfa or elders are lies
(1) Oyinbo’s supervision is what makes history history. Interesting. Lol.

I’m not sure what you’ve been consulting, but you may refer here for what constitutes a historical evidence.

(2) You must have seen from your Oyinbo’s standard that oral account is an example of historical evidence.

So, even if the historical evidence comes simply from oral sources alone, they’re valid but to the extent that
trained experts (i.e. professional/academic historians NOT neighborhood story-tellers) have done their job of examining such accounts and have sifted the wheat from the chaff.

Put simply, there are professionals called “historians,” and their job (among several things they do) is to separate the history in the oral narrative from the myth therein.

So, we must be humble enough to allow them do their job — just as we must be humble enough to allow doctors do their job when the subject is medicine.

(3) My overall point to Bini ret@rds, however, is that if they must f0rge a non-existent standard as the basis for rejecting Oduduwa’s existence; they should do so with consistency and reject virtually all Benin kings as fairy tales.

The Europeans are supposed to have met those Benin kings, yet not single one of their names feature in the Europeans’ corpus of writings.

Shouldn’t that be taken more seriously than that of an Oduduwa who flourished way earlier than Europeans’ (or any writers’) visit?

Their standard is forged, ret@rded and non-existent in the first place anyways. It is all rooted in the sense of low self-esteem for the Binis.

That is, Oduduwa mUsT nOt exist and mUst nOt have had any relationship with the Binis, otherwise the only authentic history that may result from such would be one of an IFE overlord over and above Benin kingdom.

And of course no human being with a strong sense of low-self esteem will be able to easily stomach that.

Peace!
Cc: babaolofin

5 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 9:42pm On Sep 04, 2021
The so called professional historians or experts are not magicians, they rely on raw material to work with and the primary source of these raw materials begins with oral history, if the source information/oral history is faulty, the end result is also likely to be faulty or tainted. In computing this is referred to as garbage in, garbage out.

The so called scholars or experts are human that make mistakes. Any history being told from other sources apart from a documented eyewitness historical evidence can be tainted by the biases of the so called experts, this is the reasons numerous arguments occur within
academia.

We can see how the oral history of Oduduwa changes since it was first told by Sultan Bello of Sokoto in 1824.

From 1824 till date, Oduduwa has been a Saudi Arabian, Egyptian, a Benin prince, a female deity and recently a native of Ife and most of these are contained in books written by so called experts.

There is nothing to stop the story of Oduduwa metamorphosing further in the future. The reason for this is simply because the story of Oduduwa is not based on documented eyewitness evidence.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 9:53pm On Sep 04, 2021
That’s why these professionals (i.e. historians) from all corners of the world have rejected many oral accounts as pure fabrications in entirety.

The same professionals (i.e. historians) have affirmed some of these oral accounts only in part. And one of such conclusions is that Oduduwa is an overlord over Benin kingdom, and that his descent to Oke-Ora (part of the oral account) could not have happened, etc.

Historians all over the world are not out to do GotCha for Binis. Only a strong sense of delusions and PPD disperse will make a typical Bini feel the whole is out to catch me.

Some truth feels uncomfortable, but it is what it is. In sum sha:

Europeans were in Benin from 1400s, why aren’t you worried that not one single name of those Benin obas (or supposed oba’s) featured even once in their writings?

But Oduduwa whom they didn’t even meet is what you are, suddenly worried over why his name doesn’t appear in their writings. Wonderful! Lol.

The answer is simple, you accept those names of Bini obas (or supposed Bini obas) despite their absence in the writings of those who supposedly met them just because within your core (when you’re alone) you are convinced that oral account is valid (to the extent of historical scrutiny), and the early Europeans are not historians going about writing peoples’ names.

Historical submission have shown time and time again that Oduduwa is your overlord from whose kingdom monarchy flowed to the native ‘Binis’.

Am I pretending like this is easy to accept by the Bini (infested with low self-esteem)? NO! I’m simply stating historical conclusion from all corners of the world. And no one is out to cAtCh Binis. Kill the PPD disorder today.

Cc: MightySparrow, babaolofin
————-

By the way, can you show us where Oduduwa’s name (I repeat his name) featured in Sultan Bello’s writing or any writing from your oft-repeated 1824?

Peace!

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 10:05pm On Sep 04, 2021
Any expert that is aware of the origin of Oduduwa story and Sultan Bello accounts should know that Benin didn't have any relationship with Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan. Infact these names doesn't exist in the over 400 years European documented eyewitness historical accounts of Benin.

European experts that are very familiar with Benin history were the first to question the current Benin tradition that supports Benin/Ife relationship.

Like I said earlier, work of the so called experts could be garbage in, garbage out depending on their sources, they are not magicians. Not all experts agree and support the Benin/Ife relationship narrative.

Benin/Ife connection didn't appear in Benin oral history before 1897.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 10:14pm On Sep 04, 2021
(1) Again, what does Sultan Bello’s account say about Oduduwa?

Or more precisely: Where does Sultan Bello mention the name Oduduwa (again: the name Oduduwa) in any of his writings?

(2) Apply your own ret@rded standard to answer the following question:

Did Benin kingdom have any relationship with any of the following name?:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende


Remember: Not a single one of these name featured in Benin writings for 400 years of Europeans’ visits to Benin (and supposedly meeting with several of these kings in person).

Aren’t these names mere fairytales that were forged from 1897 so Benin can have a history — as well as to attach itself to great IFE? Lol.

These names DiDn’T aPpEaR in BeNin oRaL HiStOrY bEfOrE 1897.

Peace cheesy

Cc: MightySparrow, babaolofin

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 10:42pm On Sep 04, 2021
Since 1824 to 1990s countless so called experts told us Oduduwa was from the middle east, Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

1990s to 2010 another sets of historical experts have been claiming that Oduduwa was a native of Ife.

What stopped future professional historians from tracing Oduduwa to Mali or Ghana.

This is the problem with story gathered from oral history, it keeps changing because it's unreliable.

The story of Oduduwa doesn't have eyewitness historical evidence to support it.

It doesn't appear anywhere in Benin over 400 years European documented eyewitness historical accounts. Oduduwa only appeared in Benin history after the fall of Benin in 1897.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 10:59pm On Sep 04, 2021
TWO REQUESTS:
(1) Name the eXpErTs who told you from 1824 that he (Oduduwa) is from the Middle-East.

(2) Also, quote and reference out where this eXpErT of 1824 told you that Oduduwa is from the Middle-East.

——————-
Lest I forget, the account of Oduduwa’s origin per the Yoruba’s own ab-initio accounts have it, from 1990s to 2010 time immemorial that Oduduwa is a native of the hilly sections of Ife.

Moreover, the following names of supposed Bini obas did not appear anywhere in Benin for over 400 years of European written eyewitness historical accounts:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende

These names only appeared in Benin history after the fall of Benin in 1897. These fairytale names have zero eyewitness to confirm their existence.

When will Bini ret@rds be consistent with their native ret@rdation, and conclude that these are mere fairy-tales made up from 1897?

Peace! cheesy

Cc: MightySparrow, babaolofin

4 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by babaolofin: 11:14pm On Sep 04, 2021
samuk:
Oduduwa is widely accepted today as the common ancestor of most Yoruba monarchs/people and the Oba of Benin.

Questions:

1. Are there documented historical origin of Oduduwa.

2. Is there a documented historical evidence to back up Oduduwa ancestry of the aforementioned monarchs?

3. Was Oduduwa a mythical or historical figure in Yoruba history.

4. When did Oduduwa first appear in Benin documented history?

5. Do all Yoruba monarchs accept Oduduwa ancestry.

6. Was Oduduwa story historical or a political creation to first unite the Yoruba people and then Benin and Yoruba people.

Documented historical origin of Oduduwa:


The earliest known documented history of the origin of Oduduwa was told by Sultan Bello around the years 1822 - 1824. In that narrative, Sultan Bello told the story of how early Yoruba migrated from the middle east/Saudi Arabia.

This documented historical origin of Oduduwa remain so till 1897 when the first indigenous Yoruba author Samuel Johnson in his, the history of the Yoruba, argued that Oduduwa migrated from Egypt rather than Saudi Arabia, his arguments was based on the fact that he found no evidence that Saudi Arabia had an Oduduwa in their history.

The documented origin of Oduduwa remained that he migrated from the middle east, Saudi Arabia or Egypt until the 1970s.

In the 1970s, the Benin people through their monarch told the world that Oduduwa was the banished Benin prince Ekaladerhan who found his way to Ife and established the kingdom. Benin went on to date the period to the 1100s AD.

Few decades after Benin claim of Oduduwa being a Benin prince, the first documented Yoruba account of the origin of Oduduwa outside the middle eastern countries of Saudi Arabia and Egypt appeared. From the 1990s to 2010, some Yoruba authors claimed that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife.

For almost 200 years since the history of Oduduwa was first written down as narrated by Sultan Bello, Oduduwa was believed to have migrated from the middle east, numerous Yoruba historians, writers and authors have always traced Oduduwa to the middle east until recently.

Less than two decades after Sultan Bello narrative of Oduduwa being from the middle east a Yoruba missionary Ajayi Crowder returned to Nigeria and started his missionary works in the 1840.

Since the 1840s, the Yorubas have been writing about themselves and did they claim Oduduwa to be a native of Ife, it will take almost 200 years before some revisionist will argue that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife.

Documented evidence of Oduduwa ancestry of most Yoruba monarchs and Oba of Benin:


Until 1897 when the Yoruba historian Samuel Johnson wrote his, the history of the Yoruba, the is no documented earlier indigenous Yoruba accounts that traces all Yoruba Obas to Oduduwa.

The Ijebus is believed to have come in contact with the Europeans in the 1500s, the Alaafin of Oyo received his first European visitor in 1824 and there are hearsay European accounts of Oyo dating back to the 1700s, in all these accounts, I haven't seen any evidence were the various Yoruba tribes themselves claim Oduduwa as a common ancestor until late 1800s.

Oduduwa, a mythical or historical figure.

Early Yoruba historians such as C. C. Law in his book did confirm that there were Yoruba oral tradition that claim Oduduwa to be a myth rather than a historical figure. Their are Yoruba accounts that claimed Oduduwa to be a female deity.

Throughout the almost 200 years since the history of Oduduwa began in 1824, Oduduwa have variously been traced to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Benin prince, a native of Ife and Yoruba female deity.

When did Oduduwa first appear in Benin history

There is not a single historical evidence of Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife being mentioned in the over 400 years of eyewitness documented history of Benin until the fall of the old Benin empire in 1897.

Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife only appear for the first time in Benin history after the fall of Benin in 1897.


Do all Yoruba monarchs accept Oduduwa ancestry:


The Awujale of Ijebu is one of the notable Yoruba monarchs who do not subscribe to the Oduduwa/Ife common ancestry. The Awujale traces the migration of his people to Sudan.

Another notable Yoruba monarch that doesn't believe in the Oduduwa common ancestry of Yoruba Obas and people is Fredrick Obateru Akinruntan, the traditional ruler of Ugbo Kingdom, a town in Ilaje Local Government, Ondo State. He is an oil magnate and founder of Obat Oil, one of Nigeria's largest and leading privately held oil companies.

Oba Obateru argues that Oduduwa is was a foreign to Ife from Benin.

Was Oduduwa story historical or a political creation to first unite the Yoruba people and then Benin and Yoruba people.




Why are Benin people giving themselves hypertension over the issue of Oodua ? Your late Oba started it in 2004 in his book 'I remain, sir, your Obedient servant ' . In 2018 you rewrote your history. Yorubas see your rewritten history as tales . Yorubas never cared about such 21st century history. Yorubas are too strong to be worried about minor issues.

You have explained, narrated and written books with false analysis, nobody argued with you. Yorubas are very strong and have many issues at hand.

The case of Awujale (The present king) tracing the Ijebu Ode origin to Wadai in Sudan did not say Oduduwa never existed. The present Awujale never said Ijebu Ode never had a link to Ife in history. The Wadai story came for the first time during the present Awujale. Apart from Ijebu Ode, the other Ijebus never denied their link to Ife.

You are a liar telling lies against Oba Akinruntan (Obat). Before the late Oba of Benin died, there were discussion about his story on a Benin Prince whom he claimed ran to Ife to become Oduduwa. After much contention, he said Oduduwa was not the first settler at Ife. He said Oduduwa met people at Ife but he did not know those people. That was when Oba Akinruntan said the people Oduduwa met at Ife are Ugbo people. He was referring to his ancestors. Oba Akinruntan is the Olugbo of Ugbo land. At that point also, The Obi of Onitsha also said people should take note of the statement by Obat. The indigenous Onitsha people, the Ancestors of Obi of Onitsha migrated from Ife. They had a stop at Benin before finally settling down at the present Onitsha.

The Ife history is beyond Benin and any Benin Oba or historian. The Ifa Oracle started at Ife. The deities of Oduduwa and his priest - The Oonirisa, now abbreviated as Ooni are mystical and spiritual issues beyond Benin hooliganism history.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by MightySparrow: 2:05am On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:
TWO REQUESTS:
(1) Name the eXpErTs who told you from 1824 that he (Oduduwa) is from the Middle-East.

(2) Also, quote and reference out where this eXpErT of 1824 told you that Oduduwa is from the Middle-East.

——————-
Lest I forget, the account of Oduduwa’s origin per the Yoruba’s own ab-initio accounts have it, from 1990s to 2010 time immemorial that Oduduwa is a native of the hilly sections of Ife.

Moreover, the following names of supposed Bini obas did not appear anywhere in Benin for over 400 years of European written eyewitness historical accounts:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende

These names only appeared in Benin history after the fall of Benin in 1897. These fairytale names have zero eyewitness to confirm their existence.

When will Bini ret@rds be consistent with their native ret@rdation, and conclude that these are mere fairy-tales made up from 1897?

Peace! cheesy

Cc: MightySparrow, babaolofin

Sir we are saying the same thing, reason African history is not reliable. Yoruba also said Oduduwa fell down from heaven via chain. Both records are not credible.

5 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by MightySparrow: 2:27am On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:
(1) Oyinbo’s supervision is what makes history history. Interesting. Lol.

I’m not sure what you’ve been consulting, but you may refer here for what constitutes a historical evidence.

(2) You must have seen from your Oyinbo’s standard that oral account is an example of historical evidence.

So, even if the historical evidence comes simply from oral sources alone, they’re valid but to the extent that
trained experts (i.e. professional/academic historians NOT neighborhood story-tellers) have done their job of examining such accounts and have sifted the wheat from the chaff.

Put simply, there are professionals called “historians,” and their job (among several things they do) is to separate the history in the oral narrative from the myth therein.

So, we must be humble enough to allow them do their job — just as we must be humble enough to allow doctors do their job when the subject is medicine.

(3) My overall point to Bini ret@rds, however, is that if they must f0rge a non-existent standard as the basis for rejecting Oduduwa’s existence; they should do so with consistency and reject virtually all Benin kings as fairy tales.

The Europeans are supposed to have met those Benin kings, yet not single one of their names feature in the Europeans’ corpus of writings.

Shouldn’t that be taken more seriously than that of an Oduduwa who flourished way earlier than Europeans’ (or any writers’) visit?

Their standard is forged, ret@rded and non-existent in the first place anyways. It is all rooted in the sense of low self-esteem for the Binis.

That is, Oduduwa mUsT nOt exist and mUst nOt have had any relationship with the Binis, otherwise the only authentic history that may result from such would be one of an IFE overlord over and above Benin kingdom.

And of course no human being with a strong sense of low-self esteem will be able to easily stomach that.

Peace!
Cc: babaolofin
Note the bolded portion.
I read , not all, of History of Yorubas by Dr. Samuel Johnson. The original writer was his brother, Rev . Johnson, who could not publish the book before he died. If you go by what is written concerning Ekiti, Ijesha, Ijebu, you would see historical dishonesty.
He claimed Oduduwa brought a parchment having Biblical verses, the popular version says,it was Quranic. Yet, no one has seen the writing nor the account of Sultan Bello.
Also, the issue of Gogobiri and Oduduwa has not featured in Bini"s claim. When oranmiyan was going to avenge his father's I'll - treatment, taking battle to Mecca, he didn't face Bini, rather, he faced the North, where he couldn't cross River Niger.
The accounts from the two sides are unreliable.
You could download the pdf of the book.
Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by MightySparrow: 2:36am On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:


This is the reason anyone that is serious about our true history must always insist on documented eyewitness historical accounts.

I don't know why anyone will take this personal. Africans deserve to know their true history not fairytales.
It is a difficult thing. No Africans, especially Black Communities had developed any art of writing before the advent of oyinbos. Even the written ones have biases. Those you call experts are now interpreting history with 'skill' : thinking and archeology. This also are subject to human error.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 2:40am On Sep 05, 2021
MightySparrow:
Sir we are saying the same thing, reason African history is not reliable. Yoruba also said Oduduwa fell down from heaven via chain. Both records are not credible.
You mean humans do not normally fall from the sky, hence that must have been an exaggeration added at a later stage?? YES I believe so too.

In other words, it is left to a class of professionals, viz. historians to do their job of dislodging the aspects of the narrative which is exaggerated. Having aspects of their narrative exaggerated is in no way equivalent to them themselves being non-existent.

To dismiss a historical personage as non-existent for having aspects of his narrative exaggerated is just as absurd as holding that Alexander the Great does not exist because some aspects of his narrative is likewise exaggerated — e.g. that he has two horns on his head, or that he is the son of a god.

—————
In a similar vein, Prince Idubor (brother to Oba Esigie) could not possibly have truly uprooted palm trees with his bare hands. That must have been a later addition to the narrative. Did this prince exist or not?

4 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 3:21am On Sep 05, 2021
MightySparrow:
Note the bolded portion.
I read , not all, of History of Yorubas by Dr. Samuel Johnson. The original writer was his brother, Rev . Johnson, who could not publish the book before he died. If you go by what is written concerning Ekiti, Ijesha, Ijebu, you would see historical dishonesty.
He claimed Oduduwa brought a parchment having Biblical verses, the popular version says,it was Quranic. Yet, no one has seen the writing nor the account of Sultan Bello.
Also, the issue of Gogobiri and Oduduwa has not featured in Bini"s claim. When oranmiyan was going to avenge his father's I'll - treatment, taking battle to Mecca, he didn't face Bini, rather, he faced the North, where he couldn't cross River Niger.
The accounts from the two sides are unreliable.
You could download the pdf of the book.
The Doctor is NOT “Dr Samuel Johnson”. Double check that and revert back here to thank me. Lol.

What you tag as “historical dishonesty” is the result of your lack of knowledge regarding what constitutes a historical conclusion.

Samuel Johnson isn’t trained as a historian. As you’ve rightly put he was professionally trained to be head of church — Rev. His efforts on the Yorubas’s history can best make him in strict terms a “chronicler”, etc.

In other words, a person who goes around collecting accounts into writing. He is not trained to separate the wheat from the chaff, and even when he attempts that, he most likely gets it wrong.

As such, it is the job of the historians (which they have done brilliantly) to separate the wheat from the chaff and put forward a professional submission and conclusion.

In other words, all the talks of Idi — Biblical scrolls or Koranic parchments; Gogobir; Oranmiyan attempting to avenge his father in Mecca; etc. are all a recent fall out from the 1800s.

These are narratives which emerged in the 1800s, with their roots in the now debunked presumption of Sultan Bello that Yorubas are from Mecca.

As at the time when Sultan Bello was relating his story (and presumption) to Captain Clapperton in the North; Clapperton’s boys were receiving the original Yoruba account from the Yorubas in the South.

As such, historians have com to know that whatever S. Bello was relating was not gotten from the Yorubas themselves because the Yorubas of the same period (i.e. early 1800 as well) have something else to say as documented by the Lander brothers.

By the way, I have a copy of Sultan M. Bello’s writing as translated into English by Captain Clapperton whom he gave a copy to when Clapperton visited his court. So, I’m not sure where you got the idea from that no one has seen the account of Sultan Bello.

——————
All in all what you must go home with from everything so far is that even your almighty Oyibo standard agree that oral tradition is a valid source of historical evidence — of course provided that the job of scrutinizing the tradition is left to those trained to do it, viz. the professional historians.

In any case, your Oyinbos agree that oral tradition is a valid source of historical evidence. See here again for a gentle reminder.


Peace!
Cc: babaolofin

5 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by Nobody: 6:48am On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:
You mean humans do not normally fall from the sky, hence that must have been an exaggeration added at a later stage?? YES I believe so too.

In other words, it is left to a class of professionals, viz. historians to do their job of dislodging the aspects of the narrative which is exaggerated. Having aspects of their narrative exaggerated is in no way equivalent to them themselves being non-existent.

To dismiss a historical personage as non-existent for having aspects of his narrative exaggerated is just as absurd as holding that Alexander the Great does not exist because some aspects of his narrative is likewise exaggerated — e.g. that he has two horns on his head, or that he is the son of a god.

—————
In a similar vein, Prince Idubor (brother to Oba Esigie) could not possibly have truly uprooted palm trees with his bare hands. That must have been a later addition to the narrative. Did this prince exist or not?






Can we stop this debate and agree once and for all that Lagos is Bini land
Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 6:56am On Sep 05, 2021
MightySparrow:

Note the bolded portion.
I read , not all, of History of Yorubas by Dr. Samuel Johnson. The original writer was his brother, Rev . Johnson, who could not publish the book before he died. If you go by what is written concerning Ekiti, Ijesha, Ijebu, you would see historical dishonesty.
He claimed Oduduwa brought a parchment having Biblical verses, the popular version says,it was Quranic. Yet, no one has seen the writing nor the account of Sultan Bello.
Also, the issue of Gogobiri and Oduduwa has not featured in Bini"s claim. When oranmiyan was going to avenge his father's I'll - treatment, taking battle to Mecca, he didn't face Bini, rather, he faced the North, where he couldn't cross River Niger.
The accounts from the two sides are unreliable.
You could download the pdf of the book.

We all see how the story of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan keep changing since it was first written down. They are adjusted by subsequent generations according to the prevailing political winds of the time. The Oduduwa story lacks consistency from day one and it's reliability is questionable.

Generations of 1800s Yoruba were told that Oduduwa was from Mecca and Oranmiyan took war towards mecca to avenge his Father's ill treatments.

Starting from the 1900s, a new generation was told Oranmiyan was actually invited peacefully to Benin by Benin strangers. Benin invited the Oranmiyan stranger to rule over them.

In the future we are likely to be told another story by another sets of so called experts.

Africa oral history are mostly exaggerated and unreliable.

The Benin/Ife connection exposed the Oduduwa story as a lie because unlike many African tribes, Europeans repeatedly visited Benin throughout the 400 years 1400s to 1897 before the Benin/Ife relationship fairytale was written.

In the over 400 years of European numerous visits and documentation of Benin history, never for once was Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan mentioned. Benin doesn't have oral history before 1897 that mentioned Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan.

The undoing of Oduduwa story is it's linkage with Benin with well established eyewitness historical accounts collected by various Europeans.

The story of Oduduwa can easily by checked against the already well established Benin eyewitness historical accounts.

When these checks are done, Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife are missing in Benin European eyewitness historical accounts. There couldn't have been Benin/Ife relationship before 1897, without it being documented by the Europeans, there would have been countless mention of Ife and it's kings in Benin history books written by Europeans, just as there are countless mentions of Benin and it's kings in European writings.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 7:12am On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:
TWO REQUESTS:
(1) Name the eXpErTs who told you from 1824 that he (Oduduwa) is from the Middle-East.

(2) Also, quote and reference out where this eXpErT of 1824 told you that Oduduwa is from the Middle-East.

——————-
Lest I forget, the account of Oduduwa’s origin per the Yoruba’s own ab-initio accounts have it, from 1990s to 2010 time immemorial that Oduduwa is a native of the hilly sections of Ife.

Moreover, the following names of supposed Bini obas did not appear anywhere in Benin for over 400 years of European written eyewitness historical accounts:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende

These names only appeared in Benin history after the fall of Benin in 1897. These fairytale names have zero eyewitness to confirm their existence.

When will Bini ret@rds be consistent with their native ret@rdation, and conclude that these are mere fairy-tales made up from 1897?

Peace! cheesy

Cc: MightySparrow, babaolofin

You must understand that it's not personal and your insults are unwarranted.

If you have any reason to doubt the list of the Oba of Benin as presented, you are at liberty to point out your reservations just the way I have called the Oduduwa story into question.

Africans deserve to know the truth about their history not fairytales that keep changing with generations.

Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan are not found or mentioned in over 400 years Benin documented European eyewitness historical accounts.

Benin/Ife story was created by revisionists after 1897. Any aspect of Benin history that is based on or references the Benin/Ife fairytale is tainted by it.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 7:53am On Sep 05, 2021
babaolofin:


Why are Benin people giving themselves hypertension over the issue of Oodua ? Your late Oba started it in 2004 in his book 'I remain, sir, your Obedient servant ' . In 2018 you rewrote your history. Yorubas see your rewritten history as tales . Yorubas never cared about such 21st century history. Yorubas are too strong to be worried about minor issues.

You have explained, narrated and written books with false analysis, nobody argued with you. Yorubas are very strong and have many issues at hand.

The case of Awujale (The present king) tracing the Ijebu Ode origin to Wadai in Sudan did not say Oduduwa never existed. The present Awujale never said Ijebu Ode never had a link to Ife in history. The Wadai story came for the first time during the present Awujale. Apart from Ijebu Ode, the other Ijebus never denied their link to Ife.

You are a liar telling lies against Oba Akinruntan (Obat). Before the late Oba of Benin died, there were discussion about his story on a Benin Prince whom he claimed ran to Ife to become Oduduwa. After much contention, he said Oduduwa was not the first settler at Ife. He said Oduduwa met people at Ife but he did not know those people. That was when Oba Akinruntan said the people Oduduwa met at Ife are Ugbo people. He was referring to his ancestors. Oba Akinruntan is the Olugbo of Ugbo land. At that point also, The Obi of Onitsha also said people should take note of the statement by Obat. The indigenous Onitsha people, the Ancestors of Obi of Onitsha migrated from Ife. They had a stop at Benin before finally settling down at the present Onitsha.

The Ife history is beyond Benin and any Benin Oba or historian. The Ifa Oracle started at Ife. The deities of Oduduwa and his priest - The Oonirisa, now abbreviated as Ooni are mystical and spiritual issues beyond Benin hooliganism history.


The Oduduwa story was started by Hausa/Fulani man, Sultan Bello in the North in 1824.

The story came down south and the Yoruba adopted it in around 1897.

By 1900s Benin history was dragged into it through Oranmiyan.

Recently the Igbos Onitsha are also claiming a part of the Ife story.

There wouldn't have been problems if there had been consistency in the story from the beginning.

The Yoruba version disagree with the Hausa/Fulani version. The Hausa/Fulani version says Oduduwa was from Mecca, the Yoruba version started by saying Oduduwa was from Egypt and now Ife.

The Benin version disagree with the Yoruba and Hausa/Fulani version because the Benin version claim Oduduwa to be from Benin, not Mecca, Egypt or Ife.

All the above disagreements and inconsistencies is simply because the original story wasn't based on actual historical accounts. It was a work of fiction by the Hausa/Fulani Sultan Bello.

Today Nigeria have a political arrangement that recognises these traditional rulers as foremost, in no particular order:

1. Sultan of Sokoto (Originator of Oduduwa story)

2. Oba of Benin (Oduduwa most prominent heir through Oranmiyan)

3. Ooni of Ife (Spiritual leader of house of Oduduwa)

4. Obi of Onitsha (claim to be the original inhabitants of Ife)

In this political arrangements, the Ooni and Sultan co-chair the council of Nigeria traditional rulers.

The Alaafin of Oyo who the British met on ground in 1824 as the leader of the Yoruba people is not even in the current political arrangement.

All can see the political arrangements and politics associated with Oduduwa, the Hausa/Fulani created story.

Africans deserve to know their true history not lies and ever changing fairytales.

We must know which part of our history is true, fairytales and political.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 8:22am On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:
[s]You must understand that it's not personal and your insults are unwarranted.

If you have any reason to doubt the list of the Oba of Benin as presented, you are at liberty to point out your reservations just the way I have called the Oduduwa story into question.

Africans deserve to know the truth about their history not fairytales that keep changing with generations.

Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan are not found or mentioned in over 400 years Benin documented European eyewitness historical accounts.

Benin/Ife story was created by revisionists after 1897. Any aspect of Benin history that is based on or references the Benin/Ife fairytale is tainted by it[/s]
I’m not sure why you’re agitated. I’m only pointing out the inconsistency of your ret@rdation.

The following names are not found or mentioned in over 400 years Benin written European eyewitness historical accounts:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende

So the questions for you remains:
(1) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names of supposed Benin kings have nothing to do with Benin kingdom (based on your autistic standard of writing)?


(2) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names are mere fairytales that were created by revisionists after 1897 (based on your autistic standard of writing)?

The earlier questions which you avoided are:
(1) Name the eXpErTs who told you from 1824 that he (Oduduwa) is from the Middle-East.

(2) Also, quote and reference out where this eXpErT of 1824 told you that Oduduwa is from the Middle-East.

My point is if you must be ret@rded, be ret@rded with consistency.

Peace!
Cc: babaolofin

3 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 9:24am On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:


The earlier questions which you avoided are:
(1) Name the eXpErTs who told you from 1824 that he (Oduduwa) is from the Middle-East.

(2) Also, quote and reference out where this eXpErT of 1824 told you that Oduduwa is from the Middle-East.

My point is if you must be ret@rded, be ret@rded with consistency.

Peace!
Cc: babaolofin

There is no difference between 6 and half a dozen. They mean the same thing. They are one and the same. Yoruba and her leadership history started with her migration from Mecca.

If Yoruba had disagreed with the narrative of Sultan Bello, they should have corrected it back in the 1800s, not wait for almost 200 years after numerous books have been written by so called experts based on Sultan Bello narrative.

What you call the debunking of Sultan Bello narrative of Oduduwa is simply a revisionist of the initial story.

You wait for almost 200 years to reversed a story and call it debunking.

TAO11:

In other words, all the talks of Idi — Biblical scrolls or Koranic parchments; Gogobir; Oranmiyan attempting to avenge his father in Mecca; etc. are all a recent fall out from the 1800s.

These are narratives which emerged in the 1800s, with their roots in the now debunked presumption of Sultan Bello that Yorubas are from Mecca.

As at the time when Sultan Bello was relating his story (and presumption) to Captain Clapperton in the North; Clapperton’s boys were receiving the original Yoruba account from the Yorubas in the South.

As such, historians have com to know that whatever S. Bello was relating was not gotten from the Yorubas themselves because the Yorubas of the same period (i.e. early 1800 as well) have something else to say as documented by the Lander brothers.

By the way, I have a copy of Sultan M. Bello’s writing as translated into English by Captain Clapperton whom he gave a copy to when Clapperton visited his court. So, I’m not sure where you got the idea from that no one has seen the account of Sultan Bello.

——————

Peace!
Cc: babaolofin

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 10:26am On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:
[s]There is no difference between 6 and half a dozen. They mean the same thing. They are one and the same. Yoruba and her leadership history started with her migration from Mecca.

If Yoruba had disagreed with the narrative of Sultan Bello, they should have corrected it back in the 1800s, not wait for almost 200 years after numerous books have been written by so called experts based on Sultan Bello narrative.

What you call the debunking of Sultan Bello narrative of Oduduwa is simply a revisionist of the initial story.

You wait for almost 200 years to reversed a story and call it debunking.[/s]
I love how you don’t miss the slightest opportunity to disgrace yourself and advertise your cluelessness. grin

(1)You’d been insisting adamantly that sULtAn BeLLo wrote about Oduduwa as being from Mecca.

You want to now change mouth because I have been repeatedly calling you out to provide the evidence.

For your information, contrary to the dog-shit you’ve been confidently spewing; Sultan Bello did not write jack about no Oduduwa. Lol.

(2) Furthermore, what Sultan Bello wrote in the early-1800s was about Yorubas, et al. (vis-a-via their place of origin). This was his personal supposition which he did not obtain from the narrative of the Yorubas.

We know this because around the same time when C. Clapperton was at his court in Sokoto obtaining a copy of the manuscript; Clapperton’s boys were also at old-Oyo receiving the actual narrative of the Yorubas from the Yorubas.

All happened in the same early-1800s. This account of the Landers as per the place of origin of Yorubas as received from the Yorubas (not from Bello) was published also in the early 1800s.

I bet you’ve been disgracing yourself all along because you didn’t know any of these. As such your crap of how SuLtAn BeLlo wAsn’t debunked until 200 years later is clearly disgraceful only to your dumb self. LMAO! cheesy

Cc: babaolofin

4 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 10:34am On Sep 05, 2021
Having rubbished and humiliated you (samuk) in the foregoing comment, I noticed you’ve been avoiding 2 very simple questions. Read along again:


The following names are not found or mentioned in over 400 years Benin written European eyewitness historical accounts:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende

So the questions for you remain:
(1) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names of supposed Benin kings have nothing to do with Benin kingdom (based on your autistic standard of writing)?


(2) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names are mere fairytales that were created by revisionists after 1897 (based on your autistic standard of writing)?

Peace. cheesy
Cc: babaolofin

4 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 11:29am On Sep 05, 2021
Please read how Hausas gave the Yoruba the story of Oduduwa, don't believe me, just read TAO11 account below.

TAO11, you can continue to argue with yourself. The readers have eyes.

TAO11:


Moreover, the early 1800s story of a foreign roots for Oduduwa did not originate from within Yorubaland.

Rather, it originated for the first time in Hausaland from the stories of Sultan Bello of Sokoto.

Cc: gomojam, talktrue1234, reallest, SaintBeehot, Balogunodua, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Amujale, babtoundey, scholes0

---------------------

TAO11:


Samuel Johnson himself made it clear that the oldest traceable origination of this Middle-East story is in the writings of Sultan Bello of Sokoto which he was only able to access via Captain Clapperton.

Your second attachment is taken from page 3 of S. Johnson's work. If you had bothered to go down some two more pages, then you would have found where Johnson continued and clarified that the oldest known root of this Middle-East story is from Sultan Bello of Sokoto.

On this, Rev. Samuel Johnson writes (quoting Captain Clapperton’s extract of Sultan Bello’s story) and I quote here:

The only written record we have on this subject is that of the Sultan Belo of Sokoto, the founder of that city, the most learned if not the most powerful of the Fulani sovereigns that ever bore rule in the Soudan.

Capt. Clapperton (Travels and Discoveries in Northern and Central Africa, 1822—1824) made the acquaintance of this monarch. From a large geographical and historical work by him, Capt. Clapperton made a copious extract, from which the following is taken :-- “Yarba is an extensive province containing rivers, forests, sands and mountains, as also a great many wonderful and extraordinary things. In it, the talking green bird called babaga (parrot) is found.”

“By the side of this province there is an anchorage or harbor for the ships of the Christians, who used to go there and purchase slaves. These slaves were exported from our country and sold to the people of Yarba, who resold them to the Christians.”

“The inhabitants of this province (Yarba) it is supposed originated from the remnant of the children of Canan, who were of the tribe of Nimrod. The cause of their establishment in the West of Africa was, as it is stated, in consequence of their being driven by Yar-rooba, son of Kahtan, out of Arabia to the Western Coast between Egypt and Abyssinia. From that spot they advanced into the interior of Africa, till they reach Yarba where they fixed their residence. On their way they left in every place they stopped at, a tribe of their own people. Thus it is supposed that all the tribes of the Soudan who inhabit the mountains are originated from them as also are the inhabitants of Ya-ory. Upon the whole, the people of Yarba are nearly of the same description as those of Noofee (Nupe)*”


~ Rev. Samuel Johnson, “The History of the Yorubas”, Completed 1897, Published 1921, pp. 5-6.


Cheers!

Cc: gomojam, Amujale, macof, babtoundey, scoles0, Balogunodua, SaintBeehot, reallest, talktrue1234, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Newton85

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by babaolofin: 12:05pm On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:
I love how you don’t miss the slightest opportunity to disgrace yourself and advertise your cluelessness. grin

(1)You’d been insisting adamantly that sULtAn BeLLo wrote about Oduduwa as being from Mecca.

You want to now change mouth because I have been repeatedly calling you out to provide the evidence.

For your information, contrary to the dog-shit you’ve been confidently spewing; Sultan Bello did not write jack about no Oduduwa. Lol.

(2) Furthermore, what Sultan Bello wrote in the early-1800s was about Yorubas, et al. (vis-a-via their place of origin). This was his personal supposition which he did not obtain from the narrative of the Yorubas.

We know this because around the same time when C. Clapperton was at his court in Sokoto obtaining a copy of the manuscript; Clapperton’s boys were also at old-Oyo receiving the actual narrative of the Yorubas from the Yorubas.

All happened in the same early-1800s. This account of the Landers as per the place of origin of Yorubas as received from the Yorubas (not from Bello) was published also in the early 1800s.

I bet you’ve been disgracing yourself all along because you didn’t know any of these. As such your crap of how SuLtAn BeLlo wAsn’t debunked until 200 years later is clearly disgraceful only to your dumb self. LMAO! cheesy

Cc: babaolofin

Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. All of you are on fools paradise making references to dates and falsified records and events that never happened.

The Ife history is beyond Benin and any Benin Oba or historian. The Ifa Oracle started at Ife. The deities of Oduduwa and his priest - The Oonirisa, now abbreviated as Ooni are mystical and spiritual issues beyond Benin hooliganism, thuggery and empty noises and foolish historians.

The story of Sultan Bello, Yoruba and others are tales fabricated from imaginations of the fools. In 18th Century, it was the Sultan Bello who was the rulers of the nomadic Fulanis that tell the story of Oduduwa. You are a big fool, that is why 97% of your youths are into Yahoo Yahoo, Yahoo plus, thuggery and hooliganism while the ladies are into prostitution.

There are 401 deities in Yoruba land. Each day was dedicated to a deity apart from one day in a year called OLOJO day. Olojo means the owner of the day. His Eminence, The Atta of Igala said what united many tribes in Africa is the Ifa Oracle. IFA as a person and deity first settled at IFE. Babalawos are Yoruba IFA diviner. The Chief Priest of IFA worldwide is Araba Agbaiye chosen from the compound where IFA settled at IFE. No town celebrates IFA feast (Odun - Ifa) until it is first celebrated by Araba Agbaiye at Ife. The Babalawos at Benin should tell you the IFA story. Are you saying there is no Babalawo at Benin ?

Foolish Binis out of frustration will combine hear say to bring Sultan Bello 1 into Oduduwa history from 18th Century. The present Sultan Bello III will even be very surprised at such foolishness. Why can't Alaafin or Owa Obokun write the history of the Sultanate in the 18th Century ? The Benin Sultan Bello is a foolish Oba, why didn't he wrote the story of the IBOS? The Benin is too shallow minded and immature for the Yorubas.

Yorubas are too strong and have many issues at hand. I will not come here again.

2 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 12:12pm On Sep 05, 2021
Your hogwash story below will only interest those that believe in fairytales.

The truth will always remain constant. Lies keep changing, that is why the story of Oduduwa continues to change from generation to generation.

I don't understand why some of you are so agitated with the truth and love lies and fairytales so much.

You want me to believe IFA fairytales when millions of Yoruba Christians and Muslims have turned their backs to Ifa. The Ooni himself is all over the place celebrating the opening of mega churches.

babaolofin:


Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. All of you are on fools paradise making references to dates and falsified records and events that never happened.

The Ife history is beyond Benin and any Benin Oba or historian. The Ifa Oracle started at Ife. The deities of Oduduwa and his priest - The Oonirisa, now abbreviated as Ooni are mystical and spiritual issues beyond Benin hooliganism, thuggery and empty noises and foolish historians.

The story of Sultan Bello, Yoruba and others are tales fabricated from imaginations of the fools. In 18th Century, it was the Sultan Bello who was the rulers of the nomadic Fulanis that tell the story of Oduduwa. You are a big fool, that is why 97% of your youths are into Yahoo Yahoo, Yahoo plus, thuggery and hooliganism while the ladies are into prostitution.

There are 401 deities in Yoruba land. Each day was dedicated to a deity apart from one day in a year called OLOJO day. Olojo means the owner of the day. His Eminence, The Atta of Igala said what united many tribes in Africa is the Ifa Oracle. IFA as a person and deity first settled at IFE. Babalawos are Yoruba IFA diviner. The Chief Priest of IFA worldwide is Araba Agbaiye chosen from the compound where IFA settled at IFE. No town celebrates IFA feast (Odun - Ifa) until it is first celebrated by Araba Agbaiye at Ife. The Babalawos at Benin should tell you the IFA story. Are you saying there is no Babalawo at Benin ?

Foolish Binis out of frustration will combine hear say to bring Sultan Bello 1 into Oduduwa history from 18th Century. The present Sultan Bello III will even be very surprised at such foolishness. Why can't Alaafin or Owa Obokun write the history of the Sultanate in the 18th Century ? The Benin Sultan Bello is a foolish Oba, why didn't he wrote the story of the IBOS? The Benin is too shallow minded and immature for the Yorubas.

Yorubas are too strong and have many issues at hand. I will not come here again.

8 Likes 5 Shares

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by MightySparrow: 12:34pm On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:
You mean humans do not normally fall from the sky, hence that must have been an exaggeration added at a later stage?? YES I believe so too.

In other words, it is left to a class of professionals, viz. historians to do their job of dislodging the aspects of the narrative which is exaggerated. Having aspects of their narrative exaggerated is in no way equivalent to them themselves being non-existent.

To dismiss a historical personage as non-existent for having aspects of his narrative exaggerated is just as absurd as holding that Alexander the Great does not exist because some aspects of his narrative is likewise exaggerated — e.g. that he has two horns on his head, or that he is the son of a god.

—————
In a similar vein, Prince Idubor (brother to Oba Esigie) could not possibly have truly uprooted palm trees with his bare hands. That must have been a later addition to the narrative. Did this prince exist or not?








Sorry o, in the whole story, my take is, ' there is a fellow called Oduduwa. He became the progenitor of two great empires as recognized and agreed by the concerned. The rest of the story is unreliable.

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