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A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. - Culture (2) - Nairaland

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Exposed Origin Of Oduduwa / The True Story Of Oduduwa / History Of Oduduwa (photo) (2) (3) (4)

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by MightySparrow: 12:50pm On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:
The Doctor is NOT “Dr Samuel Johnson”. Double check that and revert back here to thank me. Lol.

What you tag as “historical dishonesty” is the result of your lack of knowledge regarding what constitutes a historical conclusion.

Samuel Johnson isn’t trained as a historian. As you’ve rightly put he was professionally trained to be head of church — Rev. His efforts on the Yorubas’s history can best make him in strict terms a “chronicler”, etc.

In other words, a person who goes around collecting accounts into writing. He is not trained to separate the wheat from the chaff, and even when he attempts that, he most likely gets it wrong.

As such, it is the job of the historians (which they have done brilliantly) to separate the wheat from the chaff and put forward a professional submission and conclusion.

In other words, all the talks of Idi — Biblical scrolls or Koranic parchments; Gogobir; Oranmiyan attempting to avenge his father in Mecca; etc. are all a recent fall out from the 1800s.

These are narratives which emerged in the 1800s, with their roots in the now debunked presumption of Sultan Bello that Yorubas are from Mecca.

As at the time when Sultan Bello was relating his story (and presumption) to Captain Clapperton in the North; Clapperton’s boys were receiving the original Yoruba account from the Yorubas in the South.

As such, historians have com to know that whatever S. Bello was relating was not gotten from the Yorubas themselves because the Yorubas of the same period (i.e. early 1800 as well) have something else to say as documented by the Lander brothers.

By the way, I have a copy of Sultan M. Bello’s writing as translated into English by Captain Clapperton whom he gave a copy to when Clapperton visited his court. So, I’m not sure where you got the idea from that no one has seen the account of Sultan Bello.

——————
All in all what you must go home with from everything so far is that even your almighty Oyibo standard agree that oral tradition is a valid source of historical evidence — of course provided that the job of scrutinizing the tradition is left to those trained to do it, viz. the professional historians.

In any case, your Oyinbos agree that oral tradition is a valid source of historical evidence. See here again for a gentle reminder.


Peace!
Cc: babaolofin

This should not be taken with sentiment, though, you may be emotionally attached to your own bias. Yet, the oyinbos are more organized and meticulous.blacks are not. The only authority in Yoruba history is IFA. It is full of fairy tales.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 12:59pm On Sep 05, 2021
MightySparrow:


This should not be taken with sentiment, though, you may be emotionally attached to your own bias. Yet, the oyinbos are more organized and meticulous.blacks are not. The only authority in Yoruba history is IFA. It is full of fairy tales.

I honestly don't understand all the insults and emotional outbursts.

4 Likes 1 Share

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by MightySparrow: 1:08pm On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:


I honestly don't understand all the insults and emotional outbursts.
Insult on whom? I just say my own opinion that African's oral history is not reliable and that history has biases depending on the writer.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 1:25pm On Sep 05, 2021
MightySparrow:

Insult on whom? I just say my own opinion that African's oral history is not reliable and that history has biases depending on the writer.

Sorry, the comment wasn't met for you. I mean the insults I have been receiving from TAO11 and the other Yoruba brother.

Perhaps I should have made my comment clearer.

You have been on point and I align with your position. I am in complete agreement with all you have said.

5 Likes 2 Shares

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by MightySparrow: 2:52pm On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:


Sorry, the comment wasn't met for you. I mean the insults I have been receiving from TAO11 and the other Yoruba brother.

Perhaps I should have made my comment clearer.

You have been on point and I align with your position. I am in complete agreement with all you have said.
Ok Sir
Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by Moorish: 3:35pm On Sep 05, 2021
Great discussions
Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 4:03pm On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:
Please read how Hausas gave the Yoruba the story of Oduduwa, don't believe me, just read TAO11 account below.

TAO11, you can continue to argue with yourself. The readers have eyes.

Cc: gomojam, Amujale, macof, babtoundey, scoles0, Balogunodua, SaintBeehot, reallest, talktrue1234, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Newton85
Eeeyah! cheesy

So after disgracing yourself to stupor, your best bet is to now point to a teacher, right?. LMAO! cheesy

Well, never point to a teacher while knowing fully well that you’ve only taken half education from them.

I did make my statement on how the story of Ooduwa from Mecca is rooted in the presuppositions of Sultan Bello on the origin of Yorubas in general.

I also did clarify the context by giving an actual quote of Sultan Bello’s actual words, and how S. Johnson had keyed into the general narrative as all shown below:
TAO11:
If you had bothered to go down some two more pages, then you would have found where S. Johnson continued and clarified that the oldest known origin of this Middle-East story is from Sultan Bello of Sokoto.

On this, Rev. Samuel Johnson writes (quoting Capt. Clapperton’s extract of Sultan Bello’s story) and I quote here:

The only written record we have on this subject is that of the Sultan Belo of Sokoto, the founder of that city, the most learned if not the most powerful of the Fulani sovereigns that ever bore rule in the Soudan.

Capt. Clapperton (Travels and Discoveries in Northern and Central Africa, 1822—1824) made the acquaintance of this monarch. From a large geographical and historical work by him, Capt. Clapperton made a copious extract, from which the following is taken :-- “Yarba is an extensive province containing rivers, forests, sands and mountains, as also a great many wonderful and extraordinary things. In it, the talking green bird called babaga (parrot) is found.”

“By the side of this province there is an anchorage or harbor for the ships of the Christians, who used to go there and purchase slaves. These slaves were exported from our country and sold to the people of Yarba, who resold them to the Christians.”

“The inhabitants of this province (Yarba) it is supposed originated from the remnant of the children of Canan, who were of the tribe of Nimrod. The cause of their establishment in the West of Africa was, as it is stated, in consequence of their being driven by Yar-rooba, son of Kahtan, out of Arabia to the Western Coast between Egypt and Abyssinia. From that spot they advanced into the interior of Africa, till they reach Yarba where they fixed their residence. On their way they left in every place they stopped at, a tribe of their own people. Thus it is supposed that all the tribes of the Soudan who inhabit the mountains are originated from them as also are the inhabitants of Ya-ory. Upon the whole, the people of Yarba are nearly of the same description as those of Noofee (Nupe)*”


~ Rev. Samuel Johnson, “The History of the Yorubas”, Completed 1897, Published 1921, pp. 5-6.

You ran with the first part (i.e. my statement), and left out the actual quotation; hence your self-destruction of insisting that Sultan Bello wrote specifically about Oduduwa.

Sorry, you brought the disgrace upon yourself lad. You are the real manifestation of the famous saying that: Half knowledge is worse than ignorance.

The disgrace on you can’t be reversed sweety. Going forward, make it a duty to fully read what you spend time typing replies to. It makes you appear less dumb, and saves you humiliation like this.

I’m pretty sure rEaDeRs who hAvE EyEs actually read in full, unlike @samuk. Buhaha cheesy They know not to run along with half education.

Having said that, Sultan Bello’s presumption as per the roots of the Yorubas was debunked right then and there in the early 1800s by the Landers who also in the early 1800s collected and published the account of the Yorubas’s roots as received from the Yorubas.

cheesy
—————-

So, having admitted to have been humiliated vis-a-via your insistence that Sultan Bello wrote specifically on Oduduwa [and being from Mecca], I noticed that you have been avoiding the two simply questions shown below:

The following names are not found or mentioned in over 400 years Benin written European eyewitness historical accounts:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende

So the questions for you remain:
(1) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names of supposed Benin kings have nothing to do with Benin kingdom (based on your autistic standard of writing)?


(2) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names are mere fairytales that were created by revisionists after 1897 (based on your autistic standard of writing)?

Peace. cheesy
Cc: babaolofin

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 4:18pm On Sep 05, 2021
MightySparrow:
This should not be taken with sentiment, though, you may be emotionally attached to your own bias. Yet, the oyinbos are more organized and meticulous.blacks are not. The only authority in Yoruba history is IFA. It is full of fairy tales.
Lol. IFA is actually a literary corpus and like any other literary corpus contains: music, religion, history, and stories & folk wisdom (with myriads of hyperbole and personifications among every other literary device you can think of or imagine), and so forth.

Again, it is the job of the historian making use of these source to sift the wheat from the chaff if he must obtain historical evidence from this oral literature, or any oral literature for that matter.

But in all, your Oyinbo standards admit plainly that oral tradition is a valid source of historical evidence. I need you to always be reminded of that.

Peace.

4 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 4:21pm On Sep 05, 2021
MightySparrow:
Sorry o, in the whole story, my take is, ' there is a fellow called Oduduwa. He became the progenitor of two great empires as recognized and agreed by the concerned. The rest of the story is unreliable.
Fair enough.

Although you are not a historian, your take is quite as that of held by historians on the same subject.

Another thing we could both agree on is that @samuk won’t like your ‘take’ despite its reasonableness. cheesy

Peace!

4 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by KingOKON: 5:12pm On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:
Oduduwa is widely accepted today as the common ancestor of most Yoruba monarchs/people and the Oba of Benin.

Questions:

1. Are there documented historical origin of Oduduwa.

2. Is there a documented historical evidence to back up Oduduwa ancestry of the aforementioned monarchs?

3. Was Oduduwa a mythical or historical figure in Yoruba history.

4. When did Oduduwa first appear in Benin documented history?

5. Do all Yoruba monarchs accept Oduduwa ancestry.

6. Was Oduduwa story historical or a political creation to first unite the Yoruba people and then Benin and Yoruba people.

Documented historical origin of Oduduwa:


The earliest known documented history of the origin of Oduduwa was told by Sultan Bello around the years 1822 - 1824. In that narrative, Sultan Bello told the story of how early Yoruba migrated from the middle east/Saudi Arabia.

This documented historical origin of Oduduwa remain so till 1897 when the first indigenous Yoruba author Samuel Johnson in his, the history of the Yoruba, argued that Oduduwa migrated from Egypt rather than Saudi Arabia, his arguments was based on the fact that he found no evidence that Saudi Arabia had an Oduduwa in their history.

The documented origin of Oduduwa remained that he migrated from the middle east, Saudi Arabia or Egypt until the 1970s.

In the 1970s, the Benin people through their monarch told the world that Oduduwa was the banished Benin prince Ekaladerhan who found his way to Ife and established the kingdom. Benin went on to date the period to the 1100s AD.

Few decades after Benin claim of Oduduwa being a Benin prince, the first documented Yoruba account of the origin of Oduduwa outside the middle eastern countries of Saudi Arabia and Egypt appeared. From the 1990s to 2010, some Yoruba authors claimed that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife.

For almost 200 years since the history of Oduduwa was first written down as narrated by Sultan Bello, Oduduwa was believed to have migrated from the middle east, numerous Yoruba historians, writers and authors have always traced Oduduwa to the middle east until recently.

Less than two decades after Sultan Bello narrative of Oduduwa being from the middle east a Yoruba missionary Ajayi Crowder returned to Nigeria and started his missionary works in the 1840.

Since the 1840s, the Yorubas have been writing about themselves and did they claim Oduduwa to be a native of Ife, it will take almost 200 years before some revisionist will argue that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife.

Documented evidence of Oduduwa ancestry of most Yoruba monarchs and Oba of Benin:


Until 1897 when the Yoruba historian Samuel Johnson wrote his, the history of the Yoruba, the is no documented earlier indigenous Yoruba accounts that traces all Yoruba Obas to Oduduwa.

The Ijebus is believed to have come in contact with the Europeans in the 1500s, the Alaafin of Oyo received his first European visitor in 1824 and there are hearsay European accounts of Oyo dating back to the 1700s, in all these accounts, I haven't seen any evidence were the various Yoruba tribes themselves claim Oduduwa as a common ancestor until late 1800s.

Oduduwa, a mythical or historical figure.

Early Yoruba historians such as C. C. Law in his book did confirm that there were Yoruba oral tradition that claim Oduduwa to be a myth rather than a historical figure. Their are Yoruba accounts that claimed Oduduwa to be a female deity.

Throughout the almost 200 years since the history of Oduduwa began in 1824, Oduduwa have variously been traced to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Benin prince, a native of Ife and Yoruba female deity.

When did Oduduwa first appear in Benin history

There is not a single historical evidence of Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife being mentioned in the over 400 years of eyewitness documented history of Benin until the fall of the old Benin empire in 1897.

Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife only appear for the first time in Benin history after the fall of Benin in 1897.


Do all Yoruba monarchs accept Oduduwa ancestry:


The Awujale of Ijebu is one of the notable Yoruba monarchs who do not subscribe to the Oduduwa/Ife common ancestry. The Awujale traces the migration of his people to Sudan.

Another notable Yoruba monarch that doesn't believe in the Oduduwa common ancestry of Yoruba Obas and people is Fredrick Obateru Akinruntan, the traditional ruler of Ugbo Kingdom, a town in Ilaje Local Government, Ondo State. He is an oil magnate and founder of Obat Oil, one of Nigeria's largest and leading privately held oil companies.

Oba Obateru argues that Oduduwa is was a foreign to Ife from Benin.

Was Oduduwa story historical or a political creation to first unite the Yoruba people and then Benin and Yoruba people.



.

Nice one, lemme go see what that Benin obesed friend of yours TAO11 got to say
Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by KingOKON: 5:21pm On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:
(1) Europeans are believed to have visited the Nigeria coastal areas from around the 1470s/1480s.

(2) These Europeans documented virtually everything they observed/heard, including details from meetings.

(3) These Europeans made occasional visits to Benin kingdom itself to apparently meet the Benin kings.

(4) Recent Benin stories tell us that the following have ruled Benin from the beginning till circa 1848:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende


(5) Interestingly, none of these names feature as king of Benin in any writing of those Europeans.

(6) In fact, not even the red-highlighted names whom the Europeans are supposed to have met in person.

(7) Yet, from 1897 (and onward) some of these names began to feature in Benin stories/writings.

(8 ) Why didn’t the Europeans (who were on ground in Benin) document a thing on the above-listed names?

(9) A Benin m0r0n wants his fellow-morons to believe Oduduwa didn’t exist since his name isn’t written.

(10) Yet, the same Benin m0r0n (& his fellow morons) want to believe that the above-listed supposed Benin heroes existed — despite no single record of them.

(11) All these is despite that Oduduwa is supposed to have fluorished at a time when no European (or any writer) visited the Nigeria area.

(12) Also, all these is despite the fact that the above-listed names (the red-highlighted ones) are supposed to have flourished when Europeans visited them.

(13) IF Bini morons must exhibit natural ret@rdation, they should at least be ret@rded with consistency.

Peace! cheesy

Cc: MightySparrow, babaolofin
.

Before I answer the above why do u people like calling for backups, ehn why?
Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 6:28pm On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:


I’m pretty sure rEaDeRs who hAvE EyEs actually read in full, unlike @samuk. Buhaha cheesy They know not to run along with half education.

Having said that, Sultan Bello’s presumption as per the roots of the Yorubas was debunked right then and there in the early 1800s by the Landers who also in the early 1800s collected and published the account of the Yorubas’s roots as received from the Yorubas.

Peace. cheesy
Cc: babaolofin

This is turning out to be one of your worst outings and defence.

So it's the landers brothers from Europe that debunked Sultan Bello narrative of Yoruba coming from Mecca.

Have the Yoruba been writing since the early 1800s? The answer is yes. Where did Yoruba themselves debunked Sultan Bello narrative?

TAO11, please tell the readers when Yoruba change their story of coming from the middle east?

As we debate, vast majority of Yoruba still hold on to their middle east origin even the current Ooni told his white audience in Europe that when the Ooni dies, they become Egyptian god Osiris.

Ooni, the spiritual leader of Yoruba is still fixated with Egypt and TAO11 wants the readers to believe her cock and bull stories.

TAO11, if you must be taken seriously, produce references to when indigenous Yoruba writers first said Oduduwa was a native of Ife. I have already told you that the earliest I could find if 1990s to 2010, nearly 200 years since Sultan Bello first gave Yoruba the story.

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 6:35pm On Sep 05, 2021
Below is the video were the current Ooni claim that all Ooni are from Egyptian Osiris lineage and they become deified as Osiri when they die.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZAXb0XVwI

TAO11:
Fair enough.

Although you are not a historian, your take is quite as that of held by historians on the same subject.

Another thing we could both agree on is that @samuk won’t like your ‘take’ despite its reasonableness. cheesy

Peace!

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by KingOKON: 7:24pm On Sep 05, 2021
TAO11:

Eeeyah! cheesy

So after disgracing yourself to stupor, your best bet is to now point to a teacher, right?. LMAO! cheesy

Well, never point to a teacher while knowing fully well that you’ve only taken half education from them.

I did make my statement on how the story of Ooduwa from Mecca is rooted in the presuppositions of Sultan Bello on the origin of Yorubas in general.

I also did clarify the context by giving an actual quote of Sultan Bello’s actual words, and how S. Johnson had keyed into the general narrative as all shown below:


You ran with the first part (i.e. my statement), and left out the actual quotation; hence your self-destruction of insisting that Sultan Bello wrote specifically about Oduduwa.

Sorry, you brought the disgrace upon yourself lad. You are the real manifestation of the famous saying that: Half knowledge is worse than ignorance.

The disgrace on you can’t be reversed sweety. Going forward, make it a duty to fully read what you spend time typing replies to. It makes you appear less dumb, and saves you humiliation like this.

I’m pretty sure rEaDeRs who hAvE EyEs actually read in full, unlike @samuk. Buhaha cheesy They know not to run along with half education.

Having said that, Sultan Bello’s presumption as per the roots of the Yorubas was debunked right then and there in the early 1800s by the Landers who also in the early 1800s collected and published the account of the Yorubas’s roots as received from the Yorubas.

cheesy
—————-

So, having admitted to have been humiliated vis-a-via your insistence that Sultan Bello wrote specifically on Oduduwa [and being from Mecca], I noticed that you have been avoiding the two simply questions shown below:

The following names are not found or mentioned in over 400 years Benin written European eyewitness historical accounts:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende

So the questions for you remain:
(1) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names of supposed Benin kings have nothing to do with Benin kingdom (based on your autistic standard of writing)?


(2) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names are mere fairytales that were created by revisionists after 1897 (based on your autistic standard of writing)?

Peace. cheesy
Cc: babaolofin
.

The Europeans were told what they needed be told!

The fact remains that the very first European that entered into the Kingdom met a King (1475) and like we all know the Oba Kingship is hereditary so as long as a King was in control of the Kingdom definitely he had predecessors.

I personally can tell you 12 generations of men that I descended from not to talk about the King of a Kingdom
I personally can read out 12 generation of my ancestors, so why would that be any problem for a King?

* Do you have any idea about the INITIATION PROCESS of a clan chief, even a village Chief? *

* Do you know how long a LIBATION process can take?

If you do, you will know that aside the "initiated" someone among the Kingmakers is vested with this responsibilities and act as a custodian of it.
To become member of certain groups in the villages you MUST receite to the very foundation the HEADs of that society, so telling me if by heart the Kingmakers of the OBA of Benin cant/don't know the names of their Kings does not hold.

They NEVER found it necessary to tell the Europeans their names and mostt probably the Europeans weren't interested in the names of the past Kings.

* Those NAMES never lived for 500 years neither do they claim them as gods*

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by KingOKON: 7:26pm On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:
Below is the video were the current Ooni claim that all Ooni are from Egyptian Osiris lineage and they become deified as Osiri when they die.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZAXb0XVwI

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Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 8:00pm On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:
[s]This is turning out to be one of your worst outings and defence.

So it's the landers brothers from Europe that debunked Sultan Bello narrative of Yoruba coming from Mecca.

Have the Yoruba been writing since the early 1800s? The answer is yes. Where did Yoruba themselves debunked Sultan Bello narrative?

TAO11, please tell the readers when Yoruba change their story of coming from the middle east?

As we debate, vast majority of Yoruba still hold on to their middle east origin even the current Ooni told his white audience in Europe that when the Ooni dies, they become Egyptian god Osiris.

Ooni, the spiritual leader of Yoruba is still fixated with Egypt and TAO11 wants the readers to believe her cock and bull stories.

TAO11, if you must be taken seriously, produce references to when indigenous Yoruba writers first said Oduduwa was a native of Ife. I have already told you that the earliest I could find if 1990s to 2010, nearly 200 years since Sultan Bello first gave Yoruba the story.[/s]
You’ve been disgraced, and you can’t even do your face-saving job properly.

You failed at twisting the narrative, you also failed at saving-face when disgraced and humiliated.

SUMMARY:
Samuk: Sultan Bello wrote specifically about Ooduwa and that he (Oduduwa) came from Mecca.

Me: Point us to the evidence showing where Sultan M. Bello wrote that he (Oduduwa) came from Mecca.

Samuk: EERRM, my evidence is that TAO provided an evidence which shows that the Johnsonian hypothesis of Oduduwa from Arabia is rooted in Bello’s story of Yorubas from Arabia.

Me: Weeeell, you are yet to show where Sultan Bello mentioned that Oduduwa is from Arabia.

I quoted exactly what he said. But you chose as usual to fail to read. Yet you’ve been claiming he said that.

Samuk: Okay, okay, Sultan Bello didn’t write about him. I agree I’m a dvmb liar. But at least he said Yorubas as a whole are from Arabia.

Me: Cool you know you’re a ret@rded dullard for your oft-repeated lies that Sultan Bello wrote about Oduduwa.

Samuk: But Yorubas agree with Sultan Bello as per his story of Yoruba origin from Arabia. It’s only now that Yorubas want to change it.

Me: No, Yorubas never though there was any relevant Sultan Bello, let alone agree with him.

From the early 1800s (and since the centuries earlier obviously), Yorubas have always maintained that they are indigenous to this part of the world.

Yorubas in the early 1800s said exactly this when they were met with this question by the Landers.

They told the Landers that their earliest ancestor (i.e. the earliest Yoruba ancestors) are autochthonous to this part of the world.

Samuk: EERRM, but those Yoruba informants (since the early 1800s) didn’t write it down by themselves.

They only informed the Landers and it was the pen of the Landers that wrote it down.

As such, since it wasn’t those Yorubas who penned it down on paper (but instead told someone else to pen it down), we must therefor insist that the Yorubas still agree with Sultan Bello.

Me: Wawu! shocked LMAO! cheesy So, the mouth of the Yorubas informed the pen of Landers means that the Yorubas don’t agree with their own information. Wonderful! cheesy

Also, you mentioned that the Yoruba historians of the early-1800 didn’t REPEAT it. Lol.

QUESTION:
Why must Yoruba historians of the early-1800s repeat the same documented information even if there exist Yoruba historians in the early-1800s — although there no Yoruba historian in the early-1800s. Lol.

It is my honor to sit-back and watch you get humiliated as you’re continuously rolled down the drain.

Peace! cheesy

Cc: babaolofin

4 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 8:11pm On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:
Below is the video were the current Ooni claim that all Ooni are from Egyptian Osiris lineage and they become deified as Osiri when they die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZAXb0XVwI


How to know when samuk gets completely destroyed and humiliated, he switches to blunt, fatuous LIES. cheesy

In other words, the Ooni NEVER mentioned anywhere in the above video that Oonis are from Osiris.

Instead, he stated the direct opposite. LMAO! cheesy

Your blatant LIE here means to you that Ooni claimed that Yorubas are actually from Egypt/Egyptians, right?

Now that you’ve been exposed as a fatuous, little liar, you must now be consistent enough to take his actual words to mean that he said the most ancient Egyptians are originally descended from Yorubas.

You got disgraced again. Why do you always lose? grin

Cc: MightySparrow, babaolofin

4 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by Clapperton: 8:13pm On Sep 05, 2021
samuk:
Oduduwa is widely accepted today as the common ancestor of most Yoruba monarchs/people and the Oba of Benin.

Questions:

1. Are there documented historical origin of Oduduwa.

2. Is there a documented historical evidence to back up Oduduwa ancestry of the aforementioned monarchs?

3. Was Oduduwa a mythical or historical figure in Yoruba history.

4. When did Oduduwa first appear in Benin documented history?

5. Do all Yoruba monarchs accept Oduduwa ancestry.

6. Was Oduduwa story historical or a political creation to first unite the Yoruba people and then Benin and Yoruba people.

Documented historical origin of Oduduwa:


The earliest known documented history of the origin of Oduduwa was told by Sultan Bello around the years 1822 - 1824. In that narrative, Sultan Bello told the story of how early Yoruba migrated from the middle east/Saudi Arabia.

This documented historical origin of Oduduwa remain so till 1897 when the first indigenous Yoruba author Samuel Johnson in his, the history of the Yoruba, argued that Oduduwa migrated from Egypt rather than Saudi Arabia, his arguments was based on the fact that he found no evidence that Saudi Arabia had an Oduduwa in their history.

The documented origin of Oduduwa remained that he migrated from the middle east, Saudi Arabia or Egypt until the 1970s.

In the 1970s, the Benin people through their monarch told the world that Oduduwa was the banished Benin prince Ekaladerhan who found his way to Ife and established the kingdom. Benin went on to date the period to the 1100s AD.

Few decades after Benin claim of Oduduwa being a Benin prince, the first documented Yoruba account of the origin of Oduduwa outside the middle eastern countries of Saudi Arabia and Egypt appeared. From the 1990s to 2010, some Yoruba authors claimed that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife.

For almost 200 years since the history of Oduduwa was first written down as narrated by Sultan Bello, Oduduwa was believed to have migrated from the middle east, numerous Yoruba historians, writers and authors have always traced Oduduwa to the middle east until recently.

Less than two decades after Sultan Bello narrative of Oduduwa being from the middle east a Yoruba missionary Ajayi Crowder returned to Nigeria and started his missionary works in the 1840.

Since the 1840s, the Yorubas have been writing about themselves and didn't claim Oduduwa to be a native of Ife, it will take almost 200 years before some revisionist will argue that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife.

Documented evidence of Oduduwa ancestry of most Yoruba monarchs and Oba of Benin:


Until 1897 when the Yoruba historian Samuel Johnson wrote his, the history of the Yoruba, there was no documented earlier indigenous Yoruba account that traces all Yoruba Obas to Oduduwa.

The Ijebus is believed to have come in contact with the Europeans in the 1500s, the Alaafin of Oyo received his first European visitor in 1824 and there are hearsay European accounts of Oyo dating back to the 1700s, in all these accounts, I haven't seen any evidence were the various Yoruba tribes themselves claim Oduduwa as a common ancestor until late 1800s.

Oduduwa, a mythical or historical figure.

Early Yoruba historians such as C. C. Law in his book did confirm that there were Yoruba oral tradition that claim Oduduwa to be a myth rather than a historical figure. Their are Yoruba accounts that claimed Oduduwa to be a female deity.

Throughout the almost 200 years since the history of Oduduwa began in 1824, Oduduwa have variously been traced to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Benin prince, a native of Ife and Yoruba female deity.

When did Oduduwa first appear in Benin history

There is not a single historical evidence of Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife being mentioned in the over 400 years of eyewitness documented history of Benin until the fall of the old Benin empire in 1897.

Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife only appear for the first time in Benin history after the fall of Benin in 1897.


Do all Yoruba monarchs accept Oduduwa ancestry:


The Awujale of Ijebu is one of the notable Yoruba monarchs who do not subscribe to the Oduduwa/Ife common ancestry. The Awujale traces the migration of his people to Sudan.

Another notable Yoruba monarch that doesn't believe in the Oduduwa common ancestry of Yoruba Obas and people is Fredrick Obateru Akinruntan, the traditional ruler of Ugbo Kingdom, a town in Ilaje Local Government, Ondo State. He is an oil magnate and founder of Obat Oil, one of Nigeria's largest and leading privately held oil companies.

Oba Obateru argues that Oduduwa was a foreign to Ife from Benin.

Was Oduduwa story historical or a political creation to first unite the Yoruba people and then Benin and Yoruba people.




Stop pumping Obateru to buttress your misguided attacks on Yoruba ancestry. Dude is bankrupt, and he was never an 'oil magnate'

At his best he was no more than an Obasanjo proxypawn.

1 Like

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 8:32pm On Sep 05, 2021
@samuk, you must to answer this questions wey you dey run from oo

Yes, you’ve bungled on your ignorant dog-shit that S. Bello wrote about Oduduwa and that the Yorubas of the early 1800s and up till recently agree with Bello.

Now, it’s time to get up from the gutter, wipe/clean ya self up and answer the question at the end of the following information. Thanks.
—————————

The following names are not found or mentioned in over 400 years Benin written European eyewitness historical accounts:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende

So the questions for you remain:
(1) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names of supposed Benin kings have nothing to do with Benin kingdom (based on your autistic standard of writing)?


(2) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names are mere fairytales that were created by revisionists after 1897 (based on your autistic standard of writing)?

Peace. cheesy

4 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 9:53pm On Sep 05, 2021
Below is the Ooni linking Ooniship to Egyptian god Osiris and TAO11 previous comments on the video.

In TAO11 reply below, she accuses the Ooni of living in a fantasy world by linking Ooniship with Egyptian Osiris.

TAO11 is yet to provide us the date Yoruba first published a book contrary to the middle east origin of Oduduwa and Yoruba people.

She thinks insults are what wins debates.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZAXb0XVwI

TAO11:


@Samuk’s reasoning:
I would accept the statement of the reigning Ooni even if such statement is his personal fancy which he never claimed to be an indigenous IFE narration.

What my mind is never going to accept are contrary peer-reviewed academic and scholarly statements published years before he became king and directly stated to be an indigenous IFE narration.


Cc: gomojam, talktrue1234, reallest, SaintBeehot, Balogunodua, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Amujale, babtoundey.

4 Likes 1 Share

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 12:23am On Sep 06, 2021
samuk:
[s]Below is the Ooni linking Ooniship to Egyptian god Osiris and TAO11 previous comments on the video.

In TAO11 reply below, she accuses the Ooni of living in a fantasy world by linking Ooniship with Egyptian Osiris.

TAO11 is yet to provide us the date Yoruba first published a book contrary to the middle east origin of Oduduwa and Yoruba people.

She thinks insults are what wins debates.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZAXb0XVwI[/s]

gomojam, talktrue1234, reallest, SaintBeehot, Balogunodua, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Amujale, babtoundey.
Straw clutching has taken over. LMAO! cheesy

How to know when @samuk has been devastatingly humiliated?

He starts back-tracking cunningly while clutching at straws. See summary below:

Samuk:
Sultan Bello wrote about Oduduwa.

Me:
He never did. [I debunked that]

Samuk:
True! I’m actually dvmb for having said that.

Me:
I know. So, what next now?

Samuk:
At least S. Bello said Yorubas are from Mecca, and the Yorubas of his days agree with him.

Me:
No they didn’t agree. They said something else.
[I debunked that]

Samuk:
Yes, the Yorubas informed the Landers that they are autochthones, and the Landers documented that. So, my point is that it wasn’t a Yoruba pen.

Me:
[I no wan laugh cheesy]
It’s a Yoruba account. It doesn’t matter whose pen it is. Just as the European writings collected from Benin are Benin accounts despite the owner of the pen.

Yorubas debunked Bello from the get go in the early-1800s and it was published in the early-1800s as well.

Capeesh? grin

Samuk:
Yes ma! embarassed

———————
Having humiliated you again on that, I would move on to zooming in on your second humiliation:

Samuk:
Oba Adeyeye said Oonis are from Osiris.

Oba Adeyeye:
Osiris are from Oonis.

Me:
@Samuk did they use lie and swear for you? grin cheesy

Samuk:
F*ck, she caught me again. I don’t even know why I lie.

Me:
Of course you know why you lie. Buhaha cheesy grin

Samuk:
Okay, okay. But you said that was his personal fancy.

Me:
Whether his “fancy” or historical conclusion, you lied.

He never said Oonis came from Osiris. Neither did he say that Yorubas are from Egypt. You’e a fatuous liar.

Peace! cheesy

Cc: MightySparrow, babaolofin

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by TAO11(f): 12:33am On Sep 06, 2021
@samuk you MiStAkEnLy missed the comment below by OvErSiGhT, kindly take note. Tainkiu. grin

TAO11:
@samuk, you must to answer this questions wey you dey run from oo

Yes, you’ve bungled on your ignorant dog-shit that S. Bello wrote about Oduduwa and that the Yorubas of the early 1800s and up till recently agree with Bello.

Now, it’s time to get up from the gutter, wipe/clean ya self up and answer the question at the end of the following information. Thanks.
—————————

The following names are not found or mentioned in over 400 years Benin written European eyewitness historical accounts:

Eweka I
Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo
Osemwende

So the questions for you remain:
(1) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names of supposed Benin kings have nothing to do with Benin kingdom (based on your autistic standard of writing)?


(2) Do you likewise agree that the above-listed names are mere fairytales that were created by revisionists after 1897 (based on your autistic standard of writing)?

Peace. cheesy

4 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by Abohboy: 8:40am On Sep 10, 2021
samuk:


You are right, the Oduduwa story is a shared fairytale between Benin and Yoruba. There are accounts of Oduduwa climbing down from heaven with chains. The current Ooni claim that when the Ooni dies, they become Egyptian god Osiris, he also claimed that the 4th Ooni lived for 400 years before becoming a deity.

What makes the story of Oduduwa fake if you believe the stories in the bible? Why can someone ride on a chariot to heaven but someone cannot come down to earth on a golden chain? The current Ooni isn't very knowledgable and doesn't even serve his purpose right 98% of traditional rulers have given up on our cultural practices and history
Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by samuk: 9:20am On Sep 10, 2021
Abohboy:


What makes the story of Oduduwa fake if you believe the stories in the bible? Why can someone ride on a chariot to heaven but someone cannot come down to earth on a golden chain? The current Ooni isn't very knowledgable and doesn't even serve his purpose right 98% of traditional rulers have given up on our cultural practices and history

What makes you think I believe the stories in the bible?

5 Likes

Re: A Historical Narrative Of Oduduwa. by Abohboy: 9:27am On Sep 10, 2021
samuk:


What makes you think I believe the stories in the bible?

It wasn't necessarily directed towards you but towards any Nigerian who says the traditional religious stories are myth then turns around and believes all of the stories of the Bible and Quran without a second thought.

1 Like 1 Share

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