Kobojunkie:
My "aggression" is directed at the lies you attempt to suggest are of God. God is Truth and there is no reasoning lies with Him - they are an abomination where His Truth is concerned. When you learn that simple fact of Him, you will be better able to separate your personal opinions from His mention.

Kissing, whether as greeting or show of affection between lovers, is not listed by God as sin, and so it is a lie to suggest it is what it is not.

By the way, I am not your beloved so don't mention me as such.

Okay. Now I get you. You believe that premarital kissing is not wrong because God did not list it as a sin (perhaps, you're referring to the Bible as you did not mention your faith in any of your comments).

Sorry for calling you beloved. It's what Paul called his fellow Christians in the Bible. I was wrong to have assumed you're a Christian.

GoodAndGrateful:

Okay. Now I get you. You believe that premarital kissing is not wrong because God did not list it as a sin (perhaps, you're referring to the Bible as you did not mention your faith in any of your comments).

Sorry for calling you beloved. It's what Paul called his fellow Christians in the Bible. I was wrong to have assumed you're a Christian.

You brought God into this and I simply made it clear God has nothing with your personal opinion on kissing.

I am not Paul nor am I a follower of Paul.

All this church people self

Iyaebe:
We have different type of kisses.

So what kind of "kissing" is fornication?

Kobojunkie:
You brought God into this and I simply made it clear God has nothing with your personal opinion on kissing.

I am not Paul nor am I a follower of Paul.

Please, let me remind you. The purpose of this thread is to have people regardless of their religion or faith share their belief on whether or not premarital kissing is wrong. They are to also state the reason for their belief.

In my case (and I have a right to hold my own opinions just like any other person), I choose to see it as something wrong. My reason is based on the fact that I am a Christian and the Bible says I should flee from all appearances of evil. The Bible does not say premarital romantic kissing is evil. But it does say that premarital sex is a sin and sinning is not good. Therefore, premarital sex is evil. As such, I choose to flee from its appearance. And what is its appearance? Its appearance is something that could lead to it. For me, kissing is included because it is one of the things that could lead to premarital sex.

I know myself. I am very curious. Though I am disciplined, I'd rather put structures that would prevent sin from having its place in my life intact. I am sure that is better than putting myself to test or claiming to be a superman. So, I know that if I am really attracted to someone and we choose to be kissing when we are alone I might be tempted to go further.
Make no mistake, there are many serious and god-fearing and God-loving Christian folks that have fornicated accidentally and have had to get married before schedule because they sinned and pregnancies emerged. Therefore, it pays me to learn from other people's mistakes and put the right structures in place. So for me, kissing can lead to sin and should be avoided. For me (not anyone else), no kissing before marriage. It can wait.

As a Christian, God has everything to do with my opinions. The meaning of Christian is Christ-like. It means someone who wants to be like Christ. So, if Christ were to be a normal guy that's in a relationship with a pretty lady here on earth, would kissing be something He would want to do if He knew it could lead Him to hurting God? I don't think so. Besides God determines my opinions because if not for Him, I might be a really bad person. I might be so bad that even you would say it would have been better if I were a Christian. Or at best, I might just be an awesome moralist. But I like it the way I am.

Of course you're not Brother Paul and you're probably not a follower of Jesus. So like I said earlier, sorry for the assumption.

Kobojunkie:
So what kind of "kissing" is fornication?

French kiss lol

GoodAndGrateful:

1. My reason is based on the fact that I am a Christian and the Bible says I should flee from all appearances of evil. The Bible does not say premarital romantic kissing is evil. But it does say that premarital sex is a sin and sinning is not good. Therefore, premarital sex is evil. As such, I choose to flee from its appearance. And what is its appearance? Its appearance is something that could lead to it. For me, kissing is included because it is one of the things that could lead to premarital sex.

I know myself. I am very curious. Though I am disciplined, I'd rather put structures that would prevent sin from having its place in my life intact. I am sure that is better than putting myself to test or claiming to be a superman. So, I know that if I am really attracted to someone and we choose to be kissing when we are alone I might be tempted to go further.
Make no mistake, there are many serious and god-fearing and God-loving Christian folks that have fornicated accidentally and have had to get married before schedule because they sinned and pregnancies emerged. Therefore, it pays me to learn from other people's mistakes and put the right structures in place. So for me, kissing can lead to sin and should be avoided. For me (not anyone else), no kissing before marriage. It can wait.

2. As a Christian, God has everything to do with my opinions. The meaning of Christian is Christ-like. It means someone who wants to be like Christ. So, if Christ were to be a normal guy that's in a relationship with a pretty lady here on earth, would kissing be something He would want to do if He knew it could lead Him to hurting God? I don't think so. Besides God determines my opinions because if not for Him, I might be a really bad person. I might be so bad that even you would say it would have been better if I were a Christian. Or at best, I might just be an awesome moralist. But I like it the way I am.

Of course you're not Brother Paul and you're probably not a follower of Jesus. So like I said earlier, sorry for the assumption.

1. Paul advised you to flee from all appearances of evil and since kissing is not a sin, it is not evil. Stop trying to inject your delusions into even that suggested to you in his epistles.
If you, however, declare it evil onto your own self, then evil it will be for you. But if you allow God be the decider on what is evil and what is not, you will find yourself free free the shackles you placed on yourself by your own hands.

2. God told you that the mouth and heart of men are evil... filled with lies. He said cursed is any man who puts His trust in man(man's opinions included) and makes flesh and blood his strength- Jeremiah 17 vs 5 - Yet here you are suggesting your opinions , that which God Himself said are lies, are of God. You don't know God much, do you?

Kobojunkie:
1. Paul advised you to flee from all appearances of evil and since kissing is not a sin, it is not evil. Stop trying to inject your delusions into even that suggested to you in his epistles.
If you, however, declare it evil onto your own self, then evil it will be for you. But if you allow God be the decider on what is evil and what is not, you will find yourself free free the shackles you placed on yourself by your own hands.

2. God told you that the mouth and heart of men are evil... filled with lies. He said cursed is any man who puts His trust in man(man's opinions included) and makes flesh and blood his strength- Jeremiah 17 vs 5 - Yet here you are suggesting your opinions , that which God Himself said are lies, are of God. You don't know God much, do you?

If your intention is to change my belief on premarital kissing. Thanks for your concern but it's going to be a waste of time. Plus, God does not force His commandments on people, He gives us the opportunity to choose. It's called free will. Finally, I cannot over explain my reason for avoiding premarital kissing. It has been simply explained already. God bless you.

Since you implied that my reason is not biblical and you want to sound like you know a lot about God, please educate our ignorance. Tell us about God.

It's wrong though most of us are guilty of it
But it's still wrong

adg98:
It's wrong though most of us are guilty of it
But it's still wrong

Hmm. Please, why do you think it's wrong ma?

GoodAndGrateful:

1. If your intention is to change my belief on premarital kissing. Thanks for your concern but it's going to be a waste of time. Plus, God does not force His commandments on people, He gives us the opportunity to choose. It's called free will. Finally, I cannot over explain my reason for avoiding premarital kissing. It has been simply explained already. God bless you.

2. Since you implied that my reason is not biblical and you want to sound like you know a lot about God, please educate our ignorance. Tell us about God.

1. God does not force His commandments on people? So a person can belong to God without needing to submit and obey God's every commandments?

2. A better solution would be for you to cease with the pretense that your opinion(lie) is sanctioned by God when it is nothing but a lie you have chosen to cling to as your personal truth.

Kobojunkie:
1. God does not force His commandments on people? So a person can belong to God without needing to submit and obey God's every commandments?

2. A better solution would be for you to cease with the pretense that your opinion(lie) is sanctioned by God when it is nothing but a lie you have chosen to cling to as your personal truth.

So, is avoiding premarital kissing (which is the subject of discussion here) disobedience to God's commandment?

Uh, really, you seem mistaken. My opinion honours God. God's commandments does not include kissing or not kissing before marriage. If in doubt, you can ask Him or consult His word.

Plus, I did not tell you God approves or disapproves kissing. I told you He disapproves premarital sex which I would rather avoid by taking precautions including preventing premarital kissing. I may be spiritual but I am not a superman. I know my limits.

You do not come across as someone that respects other people's opinion. So, how do you intend to effect change? When it comes to beliefs, you inspire change by presenting something obviously better. You don't force it or try to effect it by tramping on other people's opinion.

GoodAndGrateful:
1. So, is avoiding premarital kissing (which is the subject of discussion here) disobedience to God's commandment?

2. Uh, really, you seem mistaken. My opinion honours God. God's commandments does not include kissing or not kissing before marriage. If in doubt, you can ask Him or consult His word.

3. Plus, I did not tell you God approves or disapproves kissing. I told you He disapproves premarital sex which I would rather avoid by taking precautions including preventing premarital kissing. I may be spiritual but I am not a superman. I know my limits.

4. You do not come across as someone that respects other people's opinion. So, how do you intend to effect change? When it comes to beliefs, you inspire change by presenting something obviously better. You don't force it or try to effect it by tramping on other people's opinion.

1. Sin is disobedience of God's commandments to you, and since God never commanded you not to kiss, kissing is not a sin .I.e. not disobedience of God's commandment.

2. The only way to honor God is through obedience of His commandments- that which He has infact commanded of you. And since your opinion is instead attempting to make sin that which God has not declared sin - it is a sin to label sin that which God has not in fact declared sin - your opinion dishonored God instead.

3. You brought into this as a way of justifying your claim against what you call "premarital kissing", did you not? God never said sexual sin has anything to do with kissing. Matter of fact, God made it clear through Jesus Christ, that sexual sin is not even the sexual acts you are afraid of but the lust that typically precedes such acts - Matthew 5 vs 27 - 28. So, when you try to tie your "premarital" kissing with sex to say it leads to sin, you preach a doctrine that is not according to God's very own commandment as given to you by Jesus Christ, the one who is God's Law in the Kingdom of God.

4. Effect change of what? Kissing does not send anyone to hell - it is not sin. What is sin is instead instead that lust inside of a person's heart, after a woman, that is sin that can send people to hell.

How you expect anyone to change a person's heart is beyond me.

Kobojunkie:
1. Sin is disobedience of God's commandments to you, and since God never commanded you not to kiss, kissing is not a sin .I.e. not disobedience of God's commandment.

2. The only way to honor God is through obedience of His commandments- that which He has infact commanded of you. And since your opinion is instead attempting to make sin that which God has not declared sin - it is a sin to label sin that which God has not in fact declared sin - your opinion dishonored God instead.

3. You brought into this as a way of justifying your claim against what you call "premarital kissing", did you not? God never said sexual sin has anything to do with kissing. Matter of fact, God made it clear through Jesus Christ, that sexual sin is not even the sexual acts you are afraid of but the lust that typically precedes such acts - Matthew 5 vs 27 - 28. So, when you try to tie your "premarital" kissing with sex to say it leads to sin, you preach a doctrine that is not according to God's very own commandment as given to you by Jesus Christ, the one who is God's Law in the Kingdom of God.

4. Effect change of what? Kissing does not send anyone to hell - it is not sin. What is sin is instead instead that lust inside of a person's heart, after a woman, that is sin that can send people to hell.

How you expect anyone to change a person's heart is beyond me.

"My opinion dishonoured God." Very funny and I disagree.

You called my opinion a doctrine. How so? I'm not asking others to emulate me. It's all about what works for me. There's a logical disconnect in your conclusion.

I didn't call kissing a sin. That deduction is wrong.

GoodAndGrateful:

"My opinion dishonoured God." Very funny and I disagree.

You called my opinion a doctrine. How so? I'm not asking others to emulate me. It's all about what works for me. There's a logical disconnect in your conclusion.

I didn't call kissing a sin. That deduction is wrong.

If you hadn't had brought God into it, this would have simply been an opinion and nothing more.

GoodAndGrateful:

I'll start with myself. I believe that kissing before marriage is wrong because it could lead to premarital sex which is actually wrong. I hold this belief because I am actually a Christian and the Bible says that premarital sex is an example of sin. Though kissing before marriage is not said to be a sin in the Bible, since it could lead to sin, I choose to flee from it.

By mentioning God , and the things of God, you practically presented your opinion as if in the name of God, a doctrine of some kind that has to do with God which turns out a lie. Lies told as if in the name of God are an abomination where God's Truth is concerned - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14.

According to Jesus Christ, what is sin is the sexual intention, lust after a woman in one's act, and not the actual robbing of bodies called sex and organs - Matthew 5 vs 27 - 28.

P.s. To express your opinion as an individual, you can simply leave the mention of God and the things of God out of it so as not to sin against God.

Kobojunkie:
If you hadn't had brought God into it, this would have simply been an opinion and nothing more. By mentioning God , and the things of God, you practically presented your opinion as if in the name of God, a doctrine of some kind that has to do with God which turns out a lie. Lies told as if in the name of God are an abomination where God's Truth is concerned - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14.

According to Jesus Christ, what is sin is the sexual intention, lust after a woman in one's act, and not the actual robbing of bodies called sex and organs - Matthew 5 vs 27 - 28.

P.s. To express your opinion as an individual, you can simply leave the mention of God and the things of God out of it so as not to sin against God.

Sorry but my opinion does not require your validation. It was not shared to receive anyone's validation or criticism and if you had checked through the thread properly, you would have noticed that it's an open invitation for people to share their opinions on the subject matter. It is not an attempt to judge other people or have their opinions censured.

GoodAndGrateful:

Sorry but my opinion does not require your validation. It was not shared to receive anyone's validation or criticism and if you had checked through the thread properly, you would have noticed that it's an open invitation for people to share their opinions on the subject matter. It is not an attempt to judge other people or have their opinions censured.

If you hadn't made mention of God, and the things of God, I would not had any need to approach you in this way as everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the moment you did, it become an opportunity for me to dispel the lies and proclaim the Truth of Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
If you hadn't made mention of God, and the things of God, I would not had any need to approach you in this way as everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the moment you did, it become an opportunity for me to dispel the lies and proclaim the Truth of Jesus Christ.

Really? You didn't even admit that you are a Christian. You just expected people to fill in the gap.

Thanks for your concern but to be real with you, I am neither moved by your accusations nor convinced by your unclear evidences from the scriptures. Plus, saying that avoiding premarital kissing is a not a good measure towards avoiding premarital sex is not suitable because the same avoidance has worked and is still working for some people.

And though affectionate kissing between unmarried couples is not stated as a sin in the Bible (which I have severally pointed out), you can start going to churches and fellowships to tell Christians that are dating or courting that "there is nothing wrong with kissing before marriage as this is the truth of Jesus Christ" and let's see the response you'd get from Christian leaders.

GoodAndGrateful:
Really? You didn't even admit that you are a Christian. You just expected people to fill in the gap.

1. Thanks for your concern but to be real with you, I am neither moved by your accusations nor convinced by your unclear evidences from the scriptures. Plus, saying that avoiding premarital kissing is a not a good measure towards avoiding premarital sex is not suitable because the same avoidance has worked and is still working for some people.

2.And though affectionate kissing between unmarried couples is not stated as a sin in the Bible (which I have severally pointed out), you can start going to churches and fellowships to tell Christians that are dating or courting that "there is nothing wrong with kissing before marriage as this is the truth of Jesus Christ" and let's see the response you'd get from Christian leaders.

1. What Jesus Christ is recorded to have taught is unclear evidence to one who was quick to advertise that he is of Him? You see now the reason why I felt the need to step in to correct the untrue connections you made?

2. Jesus Christ was surely more than clear when He proclaimed that all He sends His followers out to doing is preaching the very same Gospel which He taught to them. jesus Christ didn't go around giving people lectures on what to do or not do in their relationships since all they needed to do know was the Law - the New Covenant Law of the Kingdom of God - which the Gospel is in order to address every kind of relationship they have.

It is no man's place, not even your churches, to tell another how to run his relationship especially where God is concerned. Each man is meant to apply that which Jesus Christ has commanded as command and only that.

Kobojunkie:
1. What Jesus Christ is recorded to have taught is unclear evidence to one who was quick to advertise that he is of Him? You see now the reason why I felt the need to step in to correct the untrue connections you made?

2. Jesus Christ was surely more than clear when He proclaimed that all He sends His followers out to doing is preaching the very same Gospel which He taught to them. jesus Christ didn't go around giving people lectures on what to do or not do in their relationships since all they needed to do know was the Law - the New Covenant Law of the Kingdom of God - which the Gospel is in order to address every kind of relationship they have.

It is no man's place, not even your churches, to tell another how to run his relationship especially where God is concerned. Each man is meant to apply that which Jesus Christ has commanded as command and only that.

You did not make any correction. You simply expressed your own opinions and I am tolerant.

So, what is the relationship between the gospel of Jesus Christ and premarital kissing? And yes, Jesus went about teaching people, the multitidude, not just his followers. And He actually taught on lust and answered questions on divorce.

"Your churches" implies that you do not belong to a church right?

Yes, if married but if not, flee. There is no need to engage in some kiss(es) when you know it will lead to other stuff you may not be able to control

Kobojunkie:
It be of any kind?

GoodAndGrateful:

So, what is the relationship between the gospel of Jesus Christ and premarital kissing? And yes, Jesus went about teaching people, the multitidude, not just his followers. And He actually taught on lust and answered questions on divorce.

"Your churches" implies that you do not belong to a church right?

Jesus Christ is God's New Covenant Law , and His teachings are the very details and commandments of that Law which no man has a right to add to or remove from. He taught you that what is Sin in the New Covenant, as opposed to the Old Covenant, is Lustful intentions of the heart where sex is concerned. He taught you that marriage is optional but the contract is to be honored. He also taught that your marriages are of this world and not of the Kingdom of God. However divorce from it is sin if for any reason other than fornication.

Those are.the only mention and in no way bestows on any man authority to set himself up as marriage or relationship counselor in the name of God since that amounts to adding to God's commandment, an act with is sin against God.

And yes, I belong only to Jesus Christ's own Church which He built Himself. All other churches are of men and their kingdoms.

LLSAINT:
Yes, if married but if not, flee. There is no need to engage in some kiss(es) when you know it will lead to other stuff you may not be able to control

Flee kissing rather than the lust in your heart after a woman which is the actual sin here - the evil itself- Matthew 5 vs 27- 28 ?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ is God's New Covenant Law , and His teachings are the very details and commandments of that Law which no man has a right to add to or remove from. He taught you that what is Sin in the New Covenant, as opposed to the Old Covenant, is Lustful intentions of the heart where sex is concerned. He taught you that marriage is optional but the contract is to be honored. He also taught that your marriages are of this world and not of the Kingdom of God. However divorce from it is sin if for any reason other than fornication.

Those are.the only mention and in no way bestows on any man authority to set himself up as marriage or relationship counselor in the name of God since that amounts to adding to God's commandment, an act with is sin against God.

And yes, I belong only to Jesus Christ's own Church which He built Himself. All other churches are of men and their kingdoms.

So marriage counselors are sinners?

Which church did Christ build Himself? A church is simply a gathering of believers who also make up the body of Christ.

GoodAndGrateful:
So marriage counselors are sinners?

Which church did Christ build Himself? A church is simply a gathering of believers who also make up the body of Christ.

Think about it! Jesus Christ said that marriages are of this world and not of the Kingdom of God - Luke 20 vs 34 - 36 - meaning anyone who pretends to preach or counsel on marriage in His name is a deciever and not of Him.

Jesus Christ's Church is not simply a gathering of believers. It is more than that and Jesus Christ did not hide this from His followers. He made it clear that those who belong to Him are those who do as He says. He is the builder as far as His own Church is concerned.. it is unrelated to these churches built and gathered by men to decieve their fellow men in the name of God with.

Kobojunkie:
Think about it! Jesus Christ said that marriages are of this world and not of the Kingdom of God - Luke 20 vs 34 - 36 - meaning anyone who pretends to preach or counsel on marriage in His name is a deciever and not of Him.

Jesus Christ's Church is not simply a gathering of believers. It is more than that and Jesus Christ did not hide this from His followers. He made it clear that those who belong to Him are those who do as He says. He is the builder as far as His own Church is concerned.. it is unrelated to these churches built and gathered by men to decieve their fellow men in the name of God with.

There is nothing to think about. Your school of thought on faith is obviously not the same as mine.

Goodluck with your beliefs.

GoodAndGrateful:

There is nothing to think about. Your school of thought on faith is obviously not the same as mine.

Goodluck with your beliefs.

I have not given you any school of thought on faith. Instead what I have said so far is what Jesus Christ taught to those who will enter into an agreement with Him for over 2000 years now.

So this is for you to decide if Jesus Christ is a liar or are the men whose doctrines and traditions you cling to the decievers in this.

Kobojunkie:
I have not given you any school of thought on faith. Instead what I have said so far is what Jesus Christ taught to those who will enter into an agreement with Him for over 2000 years now.

So this is for you to decide if Jesus Christ is a liar or are the men whose doctrines and traditions you cling to the decievers in this.

"....what I have said so far is what Jesus Christ taught... " is not true.

No one is clinging to doctrines and traditions on this side of the internet. You may want to check elsewhere.

GoodAndGrateful:

1."....what I have said so far is what Jesus Christ taught... " is not true.

2. No one is clinging to doctrines and traditions on this side of the internet. You may want to check elsewhere.

1. Are you able to show what portions are not of Jesus Christ?

2. You are indeed clinging to doctrines and traditions of men as that is the bulk of what you have revealed your belief based on thus far.

Kobojunkie:
1. Are you able to show what portions are not of Jesus Christ?

2. You are indeed clinging to doctrines and traditions of men as that is the bulk of what you have revealed your belief based on thus far.

I am able but not willing to give that feedback. God is more than able to do that for you.

Okay. Thank you for your feedback on my belief. Keep on enjoying your walk with the Lord. I am also enjoying mine. Blessings.