jamesid29:
Anyway,Kind of a long explanation to a short answer but that's just the nature of reading the bible in my opinion. It's always way more interesting than we tend to see at first glance.

James, I am amused at your assumed capability to read the ancient minds of the Bible authors when what you've presented is what you've been told to believe and not in any way the nature of your own reading of the bible or your own opinion, a thing you said I did in a rather accusatory tone and which I therefore doubt you can bring yourself to emulate.

The descendants of the Israelites must have evolved their understanding from what you say the ancients understood, as we can see that the fruits of trees of knowledge are the daily bread of the Israelites and any successful nation of today. A use your own brain Eve sort of person would shake their head at your exposition and become a disbelieving atheist, is what I think, but thanks immensely for the effort. You've confirmed why I cannot be a 'believing Christian' as I can't accept this sort of wuruwuru to the answer to justify what you wish to believe, nor do I think the authors of the text made any errors as the text works perfectly as it is if understood.

jamesid29:
What was different about the Jewish understanding though was that unlike their neighbors who thought the gods live in this lush paradise but created humanity as slaves to take up the task the gods didn't want to do, Isreal's conception of God was that He created this lush paradise for man to inhabit with him and enjoy all it's goodness, including the tree of life.

I'll have you consider that "Israel's conception of God" came out of Egypt where they were enslaved for centuries until Moses opened their eyes. There is a reason why Jesus had different understandings of the text to that of the Israelites of his time.

budaatum:


James, I am amused at your assumed capability to read the ancient minds of the Bible authors when what you've presented is what you've been told to believe and not in any way the nature of your own reading of the bible or your own opinion, a thing you said I did in a rather accusatory tone and which I therefore doubt you can bring yourself to emulate.

LoL. You really don't know how interpretation of text works, do you?

I doubt you read the bible in it's own language(which is not a prerequisite for any christian), but you do know that everytime you read the translated bible, you are reading the interpretation of others that is being presented to you right? You do know all translations are interpretations, right?

You do know that even if you could read the text in it's original language, the authors didn't leave us a dictionary so you'd still have rely on lexicons and word study resources which are the works of others presented to you right?

And I could go on but it's really fascinating how you think everything you know is born out of your own personal opinion.
I don't think you've actually taken a step back to think through the things you are saying?

The descendants of the Israelites must have evolved their understanding from what you say the ancients understood, as we can see that the fruits of trees of knowledge are the daily bread of the Israelites and any successful nation of today. A use your own brain Eve sort of person would shake their head at your exposition and become a disbelieving atheist, is what I think, but thanks immensely for the effort. You've confirmed why I cannot be a 'believing Christian' as I can't accept this sort of wuruwuru to the answer to justify what you wish to believe, nor do I think the authors of the text made any errors as the text works perfectly as it is if understood.

I'll have you consider that "Israel's conception of God" came out of Egypt where they were enslaved for centuries until Moses opened their eyes. There is a reason why Jesus had different understandings of the text to that of the Israelites of his time.

I kinda figured you wouldn't engage in any of the ideas using the bible or it's context itself.
For someone who places alot of value on knowledge, you really don't know much about the subject matter.
That's really not a big deal though, there are many things everyone of us do not know much about. What's actually surprising is the blind believe you choose to hold regardless of whether what you believe can be substantiated or not.
It's fascinating how you always talk about how you do not "believe" but surprisingly you do hold alot of believes that can't really hold up to any form of exegesis.

Let me ask you,if I may, what part of the world do you think the bulk of Genesis 1-11 was set in?

jamesid29:

LoL. You really don't know how interpretation of text works, do you?

I doubt you read the bible in it's own language(which is not a prerequisite for any christian), but you do know that everytime you read the translated bible, you are reading the interpretation of others that is being presented to you right? You do know all translations are interpretations, right?

You doubt? You should know I have not read the Bible in it's own language because I do not speak nor am I capable of reading the Bible in its own language. I can't even read the Bible in its original English as its far too difficult for me to comprehend, and I definitely haven't tried it in the Latin that preceded it nor the Greek Septuagint that preceded that since neither is a language I understand.

Thing is, if you were to be honest, you'd admit you haven't read the Bible in it's own language neither, but see as you are attempting to claim that you have, lol.

James, would you like to tell me what the "own language of the Bible" is please? Is that what you read?

jamesid29:


I kinda figured you wouldn't engage in any of the ideas using the bible or it's context itself.

I asked a simple question and you responded with the "Many people have been studying(not just reading) these texts as far back as the second temple period(That's still thousands of years, granting the most liberal dating)" answer that I have repeatedly informed you I despise, and which you are trying to make out is some superior qualification you have, lol.

Seriously, I do wish you'd really understand what you claim to have figured out about me. Anyone who has read what I have been saying all along would have easily figured out what you think is some feat on your behalf.

jamesid29:

Let me ask you,if I may, what part of the world do you think the bulk of Genesis 1-11 was set in?

Ancient Mesopotamia, which millennia later is now known as Egypt, Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.

budaatum:


You doubt? You should know I have not read the Bible in it's own language because I do not speak nor am I capable of reading the Bible in its own language. I can't even read the Bible in its original English as its far to difficult for me to comprehend, and I definitely haven't tried it in the Latin that preceded it nor the Greek Septuagint that preceded that since neither is a language I understand.

Thing is, if you were to be honest, you'd admit you haven't read the Bible in it's own language neither, but see as you are attempting to claim that you have, lol.

James, would you like to tell me what the own language of the Bible is please? Is that what you read?

Lool. Can you show where I made the claim that I read the bible in it's original language. That shouldn't be hard to point out.

It seems you always want to divert from the core topic or question and make assumptions on things that are not there.

So let me make the point again in a simplified manner;
You do know all translations are interpretations, right? And everytime you read the translated bible, you are reading the interpretation of others that is being presented to you right?

Like I said, I don't think you've really thought through the things you are saying?

budaatum:


Ancient Mesopotamia, which millennia later is now known as Egypt, Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.

You know you could easily have taken 5mins to google what you just wrote up there, right?

jamesid29:

You know you could easily have taken 5mins to google what you just wrote up there, right?

Yes I could. And if you'd thought of that you probably wouldn't have bothered to ask the question!

budaatum:


Yes I could. And if you'd thought of that you probably wouldn't have bothered to ask the question!

So you know what you wrote was wrong, right?
But you just chose to blindly believe it....
Huh,very fascinating.

jamesid29:

Lool. Can you show where I made the claim that I read the bible in it's original language. That shouldn't be hard to point out.

It seemed to be what you were inferring when you said I hadn't. Glad to know we both haven't. It means neither of us can claim an advantage in this regard.

jamesid29:
So let me make the point again in a simplified manner;
You do know all translations are interpretations, right? And everytime you read the translated bible, you are reading the interpretation of others that is being presented to you right?

James. Even the original so called text is a translation and interpretation, is what you seem not to get or think I don't get.

Go dig deep into ancient texts and you'd see how the Jewish texts are translations and interpretations (my preferred word by the way is, understanding) of what came out of Egypt and surroundings where the Israelites got their understanding from.

jamesid29:
Like I said, I don't think you've really thought through the things you are saying?

Well, so long as you are thinking instead of claiming to know, I can live with that.

This is you being devious and dishonest. Please do not make false allegations against me.

It is not wrong that Genesis is mostly set in the areas I mentioned, with large parts of mythological places like the Garden of Eden that never existed.

But if you know different say so please.

jamesid29:

So you know what you wrote was wrong, right?
But you just chose to blindly believe it....
Huh,very fascinating.

budaatum:
This is you being devious and dishonest. Please do not make false allegations against me.

It is not wrong that Genesis is mostly set in the areas I mentioned, with large parts of mythological places like the Garden of Eden that never existed.

But if you know different say so please.

budaatum:


Ancient Mesopotamia, which millennia later is now known as Egypt, Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.

Like I said, you do know you could take 5mins to check, if what you wrote is true, right?
It's a pretty easily verifiable claim and you would in less than 5mins know where your mistakes are?
Why are you chosing to believe it dogmatically?
It's quite fascinating actually..

Oh and by the way, where in my statement did I make a false allegation against you?

jamesid29:


Like I said, you do know you could take 5mins to check, if what you wrote is true, right?
It's a pretty easily verifiable claim and you would in less than 5mins know where your mistakes are?
Why are you chosing to believe it dogmatically?
It's quite fascinating actually..

Oh and by the way, where in my statement did I make a false allegation against you?

Where was Genesis 1-11 set, James?

budaatum:

It seemed to be what you were inferring when you said I hadn't. Glad to know we both haven't. It means neither of us can claim an advantage in this regard.

You seem to have a habit of doing that quite alot actually. Problem arises when you make these inferences with text that can talk back or expanciate on what they mean, you inevitably believe your inferences are correct.

James. Even the original so called text is a translation and interpretation, is what you seem not to get or think I don't get.

Go dig deep into ancient texts and you'd see how the Jewish texts are translations and interpretations (my preferred word by the way is, understanding) of what came out of Egypt and surroundings where the Israelites got their understanding from.

Sigh,You really don't know what a translation and an interpretation means, do you?

Well, so long as you are thinking instead of claiming to know, I can live with that.

Huh?

budaatum:


Where was Genesis 1-11 set, James?

Largely in Mesopotamia.

Where did you get the idea that Mesopotamia, millennia later is now known as Egypt, Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, and Iraq?

jamesid29:

Largely in Mesopotamia.

Where did you get the idea that Mesopotamia, millennia later is now known as Egypt, Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, and Iraq?

Are we seriously going to be here arguing where ancient Mesopotamia was, James?

You do know "ancient" covers a vast timespan of immense change, right?

jamesid29:

You seem to have a habit of doing that quite alot actually. Problem arises when you make these inferences with text that can talk back or expanciate on what they mean, you inevitably believe your inferences are correct.


Sigh,You really don't know what a translation and an interpretation means, do you?


Huh?

If you say so James, though I can't myself see how you are not guilty of that which you accuse me of here. See as you insist I do not know what an interpretation and a translation is instead of presenting what you think it is.

Do let me know what you hear when "text talk back or expanciate" (sic) to you what text mean. As for me, texts do not talk. I read the text myself then use my own senses to understand what I read. Its how you and I differ.

Ancient Aliens built the pyramids and ziggurats as monitoring stations for future invasions.

budaatum:


Are we seriously going to be here arguing where ancient Mesopotamia was, James?

You do know "ancient" covers a vast timespan of immense change, right?

Lool. You really are trying to use a children's website as source "https://www.twinkl.es/teaching-wiki/ancient-mesopotamian-writing"
We might as well be using "My book of bible stories". Loool

To top it off, you couldn't even be bothered to read what the actual topic of the post was. It was about Mesopotamian/cuneiform Writing, not even about Mesopotamia as a geographical location.

Mehn, this has been one very fascinating conversation..
For someone who places such a high premium on knowledge, you really seem to be adverse to it.

Again you do know it would take you less than 5min to figure out the geographical land area of what constitutes Mesopotamia right?
Why are you so bent on holding on to a believe that is so trivial?

James please stop being unnecessarily tiresome!

Which countries now occupy the land known as ancient Mesopotamia?

jamesid29:

Lool. You really are trying to use a children's website as source "https://www.twinkl.es/teaching-wiki/ancient-mesopotamian-writing"
We might as well be using "My book of bible stories". Loool

To top it off, you couldn't even be bothered to read what the actual topic of the post was. It was about Mesopotamian/cuneiform Writing, not even about Mesopotamia as a geographical location.

Mehn, this has been one very fascinating conversation..
For someone who places such a high premium on knowledge, you really seem to be adverse to it.

Again you do know it would take you less than 5min to figure out the geographical land area of what constitutes Mesopotamia right?
Why are you so bent on holding on to a believe that is so trivial?

KnownUnknown:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia

https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/world-history/world-history-beginnings/ancient-mesopotamia/a/mesopotamia-article

Perhaps James would find your's less "children's website" than mine, I hope.

budaatum:
James please stop being unnecessarily tiresome!

Which countries now occupy the land known as ancient Mesopotamia?

You could have just asked that from the get go, instead of playing fast and loose with your information and resources.

I can see knowunknown has posted a few links. You can read through them. They do provide adequate information about the location.

Sorry if my laughing made you feel some type of way. I really didn't come into the conversation to try and mock you or something.
I was just genuinely surprised at the way the conversation went and I should have done a better job at curtailing my surprise.

Anyway, I guess we've derailed the thread enough.
Sorry once again and do enjoy the rest of your day buda.

mike404:
SO THIS ANTI CHRIST IS STILL AWAKE

Lol