anu3:
kimco


Well, thanks for your support bro... But honestly, I'll be doing more and growing more if I have a CHRISTLIKE elder (not Perfect, though) over me in a local church. I no longer believe just the One man Pastor System of common churches, but having elders of local churches as well; I may fellowship in a branch of theirs if the branch pastor is a good example of Jesus (not perfect), though.

As it says:

Heb.13.17 - Obey your spiritual leaders and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they know they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this joyfully and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit.

But I can't submit to just any pastor or leader anymore. Except I know he has not been blinded by Money and Popularity as common.

petra1:



Well, thanks bro. But you can be sure I've been to most kinds of common churches around...

According to my narration here, a time came when I started looking beyond just one's Correct doctrines/Bible knowledge, holy or good external appearance, eloquence, miracles and signs, Big or Mega-churches and other GIFTS. These are what Jesus refer to as the sheep's clothing; hence, STRONG False prophets can use these things too.



Therefore, before I call a person a man of God, I compare them first with Jesus and Men like Paul (not perfect people, but christlike). Because Jesus said one cannot serve God and Mammon. And I check myself as a believer in these areas too.

But someone will say there are no men like that; no there are but very few and unknown. The few fairly well known I know are Zac Poonen (India), bro Gbile Akanni, late Jan boshoof (died last year), etc.

Men like Zac Poonen who could say to his congregation that if any of them finds any of his linked churches with a leader who's not christlike and unserious should be avoided at all cost, and had better find another local church that is not linked to him at all, but has a CHRISTLIKE leader. I doubt if there are many Popular Pastors in Nigeria that can say such genuinely. No, once you join there group/denomination, you must find and join their Branch anywhere you go (BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH, you know): whether the branch is dead or alive: as long as your TITHES AND OFFERINGS are intact, I guess.

Men like Paul, Peter, etc., were not mainly after Money, tithes, offerings, building megachurches and Popularity; but Jesus and his Kingdom primarily: living like Jesus lived.

1John.2.6 - Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Christ did.

Lastly... Let's not forget:

Matt.7.22 - On judgment day many will tell me, 'Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.'
Matt.7.23 - But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized. '


Grace...

kimco:


Bro the manual is there for you. Read it, apply it and help your fellows while at it. But I understand you.

kimco:


I half disagree. You really should be concern about the way the church is run. Your salvation is tethered to how you helped your fellow to see the light lest their blood be asked of you. Why go to church if not to fellowship? People seem to have forgotten the need to fellowship. We don't live in a vacuum.

I believe OP must put in the work to help change the leadership to do what is right. The leadership are indeed fellows and they too must be straightened when they go wrong otherwise.....no body's salvation is their personal race. Its a network. If you disagree then I believe OP must stay home. God is not in the church.

kimco:

And why is this?

Why can he not be without a pastor?

Where in the bible was this stated?

Are you incapable of doing what your pastor does?

Or are you not a man/woman of God too?

Everyone is called (assuming the bible is true)

Because God wants it so .God created structure of leadership in the body of Christ.



You have to be submitted to someone .It's either you're leading or being led...

petra1:


Because God wants it so .God created structure of leadership in the body of Christ.



You have to be submitted to someone .It's either you're leading or being led



Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.



1Co 12:28 — 1Co 12:29
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles



True disciples of Christ were men of God too. But there's leadership structure in God's kingdom. God govern his people through leadership. its only rebels who dont recognise this and claim equality in rank. " WE are all annointed. we are all holy"

Num 16:3 — Num 16:4 (ASV)
3 and they assembled themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and Jehovah is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the assembly of Jehovah?
4 And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face:



Hebrews 5:4 (KJV)
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

Matthew 22:14 (KJV)
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Lostchild:


One thing you will not see me do in this forum is to debate because I respect your opinion.

1. You are me and others is the church, a member of the body of Christ.

2. Those their ministry or business organization are not the church of Christ. The church are members and not organization.

3. How they run their ministry or business organizations is not my concern.

4. God has called me for a purpose and I only know of my calling and myself because I am running the race God has set before me.

NOTE: Many are called but few are chosen.

It is selfish to watch things fall apart and do nothing.