ola olabiy:

We think we are smart BUT we aren't.


We are loud, that's that.

Loud is good o.
I'd rather be a Nigerian than a Zimbabwean, or a Zambian, even a Kenyan.
They're not loud, but they suck big time.

AjanleKoko:

Loud is good o.
I'd rather be a Nigerian than a Zimbabwean, or a Zambian, even a Kenyan.
They're not loud, but they suck big time.

You are right.

They don't pretend to be clever, though.

In Africa, we are okay.

We are book-smart, though. We need to do better.

am smart

moremi2008:

Sorry, but Kase is another prime example of Nigerians amassing wealth through shady deals and outright criminality. You don't have to dig too deeply and you'll find the rot.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7441625.html

OK. i'll give you that. what about Dr. Olufunmilayo Olopade? are you gonna say she forged medical school certificate too? anyway, naming one or hundred Nigerians doing well or bad isn't going to prove Nigerians' overall level of success. i come across both successful and not-so-successful Nigerians in the US. the successful ones tend to stay under the radar.

If as a Nigerian you consider me LOUD and braggadocios, then that's smartness. You can not get that from other countries. I prefer being loudly smart but patriotic than being unpatriotically smart.

You are morally wrong to generalise the ills of a few Nigerians.

Long Live Nigeria!

good discussion. omo_tier 1 has summarized the issues the OP brought up the best.

Does a Nigerian not own Gatwick Airport? Is this how you plan to make this thread an intellectualy stimulating one? I.e using highly subjective examples , IMO, aimed at denigrating Nigerians and Nigeria rather than using fair analogy that encourages stimulating and educative discussion? Must the Lebanese not run any business in Nigeria now ? What if the Lebanese proprietor won the concession legitimately? Do you know how 'connected' the Lebanese proprietor is?

This is similar to an argument I had with a friend of mine with his MBA who said Coca Cola was owned by HRM Queen of England. Ogunlesi does not own Gatwick Airport. If  your argument were true, then the entity  which sold Gatwick to Ogunlesi and Co  is mightier.

If its about Lebanese, they run business in a lot of places.
Carlos Slim Helu is of Lebanese descent.

AjanleKoko:

If its about Lebanese, they run business in a lot of places.
Carlos Slim Helu is of Lebanese descent.

May be we need to ask ourselves why these Lebanese guys who have never been to any university; who speak English the way my grandparents did - run businesses better than Nigerians with multiple degrees.

We need to man up and take it: all is NOT well with the Black Race.

ola olabiy:

May be  we need to ask ourselves why these Lebanese guys who have never been to any university; who speak English the way my grandparents did - run businesses better than Nigerians with multiple degrees.

ola olabiy:

We need to man up and take it: all is NOT well with the Black Race.

Calm down bro. Continuum of maturity, remember? Which exposure black people get? I remember one thread where people were commenting on entrepreneurship; I asked back then for everybody to ask themselves, what am I as an individual bringing to the table?

Like I posted earlier, being smart is neither here nor there. There is no such thing as 'smart people'.
I interact with people of all races, and I find myself to be more intelligent, even more exposed than many non-blacks I've met. Even Asians. Sebi they are all touted as math geniuses. Even some Europeans and Americans sef. If you know how many times I have endured comments like 'You speak very good english', 'you are a very smart man' by some random Oyinbo eediot, you go pity me.

The bottom line is, every nation has smart people, and dumb people. Dumb people are always in the majority, and are usually even the most influential and powerful. Much more than smart people.
The only difference is, some nations know the value of smart people and deploy them to work in the right places. Unfortunately, that is not the case for Nigeria. Our own rulers desire only to loot and pillage, and they don't really need smart people to do that.

AjanleKoko:


If you know how many times I have endured comments like 'You speak very good english', [b]'you are a very smart man' [/b]by some random Oyinbo eediot, you go pity me.

. You are right.
I know; it's so bad they don't even expect us to be smart.


Academically, we are right up there. We just need to move up a notch - not individually but collectively.

Smart? Yes we are.

Even dumb(Uneducated, unexposed, uncivilized) people can make smart decisions. It is not about the book smarts, or how many big businesses one can lay claims to, or how exposed one is, but about how one(a group mostly) applies lessons learnt to improving one's surroundings/environment/life etc.

Smartness has more to do with how we apply what we learn, either from the west, from our experiences, or our culture to bettering our lives, and the lives of those around us. There are so many common sense solutions that we refuse, outrightly refuse to apply, for the weirdest reasons.

i think you hit the head on the nail there .

habitually/daily making smart decisions is key.

one area of life where we regularly think we are smart is driving and thousands die needlessly and no one notices

Kobojunkie:

Even dumb(Uneducated, unexposed, uncivilized) people can make smart decisions. It is not about the book smarts, or how many big businesses one can lay claims to, or how exposed one is, but about how one(a group mostly) applies lessons learnt to improving one's surroundings/environment/life etc.

Smartness has more to do with how we apply what we learn, either from the west, from our experiences, or our culture to bettering our lives, and the lives of those around us. There are so many common sense solutions that we refuse, outrightly refuse to apply, for the weirdest reasons.

aribisala0:

i think you hit the head on the nail there .

habitually/daily making smart decisions is key.

one area of life where we regularly think we are smart is driving and thousands die needlessly and no one notices

It's difficult to agree with these two assertions.
First of all, if you're uneducated/unexposed/uncivilized, what kind of 'smart' decisions would you make? You would not be able to solve even basic problems that have been solved elsewhere. You don't even know better anyway.
In fact, that assertion re-inforces the idea of the OP that Nigerians think they are smart, by making decisions out of ignorance, decisions that eventually turn out to be dumb. Like the driving example. If people could drive in a better, more organized way, they would run less risk of accidents, and would live longer. But what if they don't know how?

Secondly, there is even an inherent contradiction. If you are able to learn from situations and from other people who have solved problems you haven't, and successfully apply them, it follows that you're not unexposed/uneducated/uncivilized anymore. Essentially it means you are smart, or have become smart. And that is how societies progress. First the Phoenicians were the smart ones, then the Sumerians, then the Greeks, then the Romans, then the Franks . . . the list goes on. Each civilization learnt from the success/failure of the one preceding.

AjanleKoko:

It's difficult to agree with these two assertions.
First of all, if you're uneducated/unexposed/uncivilized, what kind of 'smart' decisions would you make? You would not be able to solve even basic problems that have been solved elsewhere. You don't even know better anyway.
In fact, that assertion re-inforces the idea of the OP that Nigerians think they are smart, by making decisions out of ignorance, decisions that eventually turn out to be dumb. Like the driving example. If people could drive in a better, more organized way, they would run less risk of accidents, and would live longer. But what if they don't know how?

Mother Theresa was uneducated/unexposed/uncivilized but she was able to impact the lives of those around her, and that of millions around the world. She was no different from today's albanian catholic nun in terms of exposure, education etc. but that did not stop her from impacting her world in the way she did.

Dumb people are not necessarily ignorant people. There are so many educated, civilized, and exposed people out there who are IGNORANT -- among the worst kind IMO.

Much of what we have today in terms of solutions were developed taught by essentially dumb people(unexposed/uneducated/uncivilized). Many of these had little exposure to the world outside of their villages/towns and only sought to solve problems in their immediate environments.

When considering how smart a person or group really is, it is usually in terms of how this group are able to apply common sense solutions to solving problems around them.

AjanleKoko:

Secondly, there is even an inherent contradiction. If you are able to learn from situations and from other people who have solved problems you haven't, and successfully apply them,  it follows that you're not unexposed/uneducated/uncivilized anymore. Essentially it means you are smart, or have become smart. And that is how societies progress. First the Phoenicians were the smart ones, then the Sumerians, then the Greeks, then the Romans, then the Franks . . . the list goes on. Each civilization learnt from the success/failure of the one preceding.

So, if we are to follow your logic above, we can as well conclude that you do agree with the @OP on this.

The reason we accept that the Phoenicians were smart, is because we have evidence to show that they had invested in improving themselves considering information we know have of other groups around the same time.  This we know to be the case for the Sumericans, greeks, romans, and yes, the franks etc. According to you, these groups learnt from the success/failure of the one preceding.

Yes, every group has potentials up the wazoo, but not until those potentials begin to manifest themselves than one properly claim much has been accomplished. Nigerians, as a group, have yet to apply lessons learnt from success/failure to improving the lives of the group-- we have some of the most educated people in the world, we have resources in abundance, and we have control of these resources. But they have yet to be translated into quality output. So, SMARTNESS is not about book smarts or exposure but more to do with our ability to apply what we know, have learnt, to solving our problems.

maybe a few words on behavioural psychology might help.
  dogs can be trained to salivate every time the phone rings without any cognitive activity going into those responses or even to perform more complex non-dog activity .
humans have a very similar but not identical nervous system and infact most things we do very well are done  best  when done reflexly without much thought driving writing etc.

extending this to the group level. there is design of systems/processes by the brains and there is operation by the bodies;read airport security personnel ,macdonalds staff , many lower ranking police staff etc,
i believe most countries have a similar distribution of these groups but deploy them differently leading to advantages/disadvantages

where there are well designed systems/protocols e.g. natural disasters e.g. fukushima the bodies swing into action following drilled in responses,in essence,acting smartly, without necessarily having cognitive insight or an overiew of the picture.
thus it is important to distinguish drill(training) from true insight
this is the essence of a smart group. linkages of knowledge and learning that is embedded in a few individuals to benefit the group

aribisalaO

In my view the smartest groups in the diaspora are jews chinese and indians by any measure [/b]and there appears to be an inverse relationship with success and the noise they make.
In IT, science arts etc most notable achievements by migrant groups are from those groups mentioned above. any trifling achievement by a nigerian when not eventually discredited as fraudulent,is blown out of all rational proportion and accompanied  by the usual "he is yoruba,he is igbo" polemic.
what is the reality? we are a nation in decline;

Are we a nation yet, let alone in "decline"

The groups in diaspora like the Jews, Chinese and Indians as mentioned above ^^ in your view, are the smartest etc but I'll rather you omitted them in this discourse because in my view it's [b]unfair and there are no basis for any national, cultural and historical comparison whatsoever between them and the so called "nation" 'Nigerians'.  To appreciate the enormity of such a discourse/topic, a fair knowledge of Cultural history and social diffusion of values etc must be understood- Education in it's full implication for shaping worldview and national/personal values. Cultural Education is important in constructing social cohesion which "Nigeria" ruling elite, have never bothered to think about hence the collective mess, embarrassment coupled with the ludicrous assumption that we can acquire "education" by any means and still be innately competitive/successful like the other groups you mentioned. We never bothered to wonder why it is that we are the only group who are farmed out to be 'educated' everywhere else, without adequate cultural base input educationally? Most of our people can barely speak, read, write in our mother tongues, let alone conceptualise and appreciate the world around us adequately enough. It's no wonder that empty vessels make the loudest noise . There is a lot about us that we have not dealt with and I have not seen any indication that we shall be doing so any time soon. There is a total psychic dislocation in our national sense of self(personal/group) from the local government to the centre(Abuja) no exception, hence we seem to always make the wrong choices and decisions. At times we dignify it by calling it "tribalism" etc but it is not, because these bad actions or decisions are even done on local village levels.
Living together for as long as we like will not change anything if we do not consciously, purposefully, design and implement processes/system that will effect positive outcomes we so desire/want. The other groups you mentioned above have their own processes e.g.schools, temples, values etc intact. Nothing ever happens without purposeful thought and action. The groups you mentioned above have a huge library of cultural history and antecedents to draw from which gives the average individual even with little formal education an edge without trying too hard like us despite our so called relative language(english) affinity or proficiency. Culture is the base for survival and competence in every sphere of human endeavour. "Nigerians" as a group do not have it because we have not actively designed and implemented any yet. Nollywood and Musicians are trying fairly hard to construct something close to an identifiable national culture etc but are they really "aware" of the power and impact of their output in moulding a national value system/psyche

Most people under the age of 40 in Nigeria have gone to school in a culture where it is normal to cheat and now  nigerians with 150million troop to ghanaian universities and instead of being grateful to them we say they are not smart.
On balance foreigners take more out of Nigeria than nigerians bring in from their fraud,drugs ashewo and legitimate businesses combined.

That's what happens when a people have no cohesive sense of history let alone cultural awareness of self and one's place in the world around ., hence the bluster and constant hollow headed misplaced assumptions in relation to our encounters with "others" including fellow countrymen and women. The crisis in our worldview or lack of national culture and values from the onset have never been discussed nor planned for hence everyman/woman for themselves like most things in our national life. We are all renegades and cowboys/girls . We are not even aware that Education is a weapon of war like anything else. It can liberate or enslave you hence foolishly the ignorant are not aware of their enslavement even in Ghana . Our ruling elite send their children to Ghana too so that illustrates our 'lost' , confused and pitiful condition. It's total anarchy.
Being caught easily more than other groups is but a reflection of our general lack of awareness of our environment because we are generally not grounded enough in our own culture and values enough as to be discerning and more thoughtful when encountering others outside of our cultural domain. Gra Gra and loutish behaviour is not cool but an indication of far deeper social insecurities/dislocations etc.

cheikh:

aribisalaO
Are we a nation yet, let alone in "decline"

The groups in diaspora like the Jews, Chinese and Indians as mentioned above ^^ in your view, are the smartest etc but I'll rather you omitted them in this discourse because in my view it's unfair and there are no basis for any national, cultural and historical comparison whatsoever between them and the so called "nation" 'Nigerians'.  To appreciate the enormity of such a discourse/topic, a fair knowledge of Cultural history and social diffusion of values etc must be understood- Education in it's full implication for shaping worldview and national/personal values. Cultural Education is important in constructing social cohesion which "Nigeria" ruling elite, have never bothered to think about hence the collective mess, embarrassment coupled with the ludicrous assumption that we can acquire "education" by any means and still be innately competitive/successful like the other groups you mentioned. We never bothered to wonder why it is that we are the only group who are farmed out to be 'educated' everywhere else, without adequate cultural base input educationally? Most of our people can barely speak, read, write, conceptualise and appreciate the world around us adequately enough. It's no wonder that empty vessels make the loudest noise . There is a lot about us that we have not dealt with and I have not seen any indication that we shall be doing so any time soon. There is a total psychic dislocation in our national sense of self(personal/group) from the local government to the centre(Abuja) no exception, hence we seem to always make the wrong choices and decisions. At times we dignify it by calling it "tribalism" etc but it is not, because these bad actions or decisions are even done on local village levels.
Living together for as long as we like will not change anything if we do not consciously, purposefully, design and implement processes/system that will effect positive outcomes we so desire/want. The other groups you mentioned above have their own processes e.g.schools, temples, values etc intact. Nothing ever happens without purposeful thought and action. The groups you mentioned above have a huge library of cultural history and antecedents to draw from which gives the average individual even with little formal education an edge without trying too hard like us despite our so called relative language(english) affinity or proficiency. Culture is the base for survival and competence in every sphere of human endeavour. "Nigerians" as a group do not have it because we have not actively designed and implemented any yet. Nollywood and Musicians are trying fairly hard to construct something close to an identifiable national culture etc but are they really "aware" of the power and impact of their output in moulding a national value system/psyche
That's what happens when a people have no cohesive sense of history let alone cultural awareness of self and one's place in the world around ., hence the bluster and constant hollow headed misplaced assumptions in relation to our encounters with "others" including fellow countrymen and women. The crisis in our worldview or lack of national culture and values from the onset have never been discussed nor planned for hence everyman/woman for themselves like most things in our national life. We are all renegades and cowboys/girls . We are not even aware that Education is a weapon of war like anything else. It can liberate or enslave you hence foolishly the ignorant are not aware of their enslavement even in Ghana . Our ruling elite send their children to Ghana too so that illustrates our 'lost' , confused and pitiful condition. It's total anarchy.
Being caught easily more than other groups is but a reflection of our general lack of awareness of our environment because we are generally not grounded enough in our own culture and values enough as to be discerning and more thoughtful when encountering others outside of our cultural domain. Gra Gra and loutish behaviour is not cool but an indication of far deeper social insecurities/dislocations etc.

very well said bro

cap28

very well said bro

^^ Thank you bro , I was in Paris for about seven days last last week and no time did I notice any national debate or write-up about the French war in Libya . It's shocking. There was over two hours of documentary on DSK, as usual sexual titillation and the new craze topic in France- Sex addiction etc.

kobojunkie

Smartness has more to do with how we apply what we learn, either from the west, from our experiences, or our culture to bettering our lives, and the lives of those around us. There are so many common sense solutions that we refuse, outrightly refuse to apply, for the weirdest reasons.

@kobojunkie

You are very correct and that is the crux of our problems which is deep rooted. We are certainly a "conquered" people hence everything we do is for the benefit of "outsiders" or "others" never for self. We have no excuse whatsoever not to be able to actively reconstruct and transform our society given that there are some capable members of our various cultures sophisticated and knowledgeable enough to think and design new robust liberating educational system appropriate for our times and place. There are so much so called "common sense" or "knowledge" still left in our society we can use for social transformation and nation building benefit. Positive thoughts and actions do not happen in a vacuum but within a cultural milieu/context. For one to be able to benefit from so called external exposures etc one has to be comfortable and seated in their own culture/skin. So called Nigerians are not even close to that hence some in this forum have rightly or wrongly declared that perhaps we are "not yet mature" enough or that we are suffering from "inferiority complex".
"Immaturity or inferiority", after all do not just happen but are symptoms of general malaise within the context of a perceived incapacity brought about by our total "defeat" and "enslavement" . We have been "zombiefied" hence the almost total absence of creativity, choices or positive outcomes. I am rather hopeful that with the kind of people on NL or on this forum at least , all hope is not lost. We are yet to have a nation let alone a national culture to be proud of or draw from hence our chaotic state of being. In the case of Nigeria, we are all alienated somehow, vengeful and lacking any sense of belonging even at the village level too. It is a terrible state of being. Being "Smart" or "Smartness" in the proper sense, does not happen in such an environment because the overall value system [/b]is already [b]dislocated [/b]and [b]distorted e.g. by nouveau riche, soldiers, police, customs and excise men/women, other uniformed men and women even traffic wardens, professional politicians and even hustling traditional rulers who hand out 'titles' like cheap sweets to delinquents/miscreants like Balogun(former convicted police IG) etc no exception and our inadequate historical and cultural knowledge.

Nigerians are intelligent though selfish , we are not as smart as we might claim.
Intelligence gives you short term results, but smartness gives favourable long term results.
Nigerians are not smart enough to vote right leaders yet !

As expected, @Cheikh brought it home! Well said bro. Especially the phrase "Education is a weapon of war"

You discard your cultural advantage and you become a wanderer in the wilderness of earthly competition. Yes we can learn from others, but our competitors are not dumb. You lose your leverage (culture, language, society) and you become a follower never a leader.

Your "smart" becomes a disadvantage and a burden if you don't pivot it on your cultural advantage and home grown organic philosophies.

China saw it, and they continue to seize it!! I'm hoping the country with the largest concentration of Black folks on earth will see it soon. Or maybe a section of it will.

Keep preaching the message bro.

Comments on this thread glaringly amplifies the problem with Nigeria for those discerning enough to introspect and take even their own personal attitude, outlook and thinking into consideration. Nigerians are smart, innovative and intelligent . That is without doubt. Our main problem is that we are not united and simply do not believe in Nigeria enough to reach the point of selflessness that facilitates progressive nation building . The "every man for himself" attitude is now firmly entrenched.

We are only ever to be found, as evident on this thread, criticising as if we are somehow dissociated from the problems of Nigeria. Somehow , it is other who are "greedy" and "wicked" - not us. It is easy to prove my point . If most Nigerians commentators on this thread are balanced and objective citizens in the normal sense of the world , as pertains to what obtains worldwide, we would have seen more robust defence of outrightly wrong assertions against Nigeria. Instead all I see is pseudo-intellectual pontification driven by inobjective thinking that has already made up its mind to unpatriotically give Nigeria a bad name to hang it. What others do that Nigerian does not do is now a negative indictment against Nigeria . What Nigeria does that others do not do is also a Negative indictment against Nigeria . How can Nigeria win or even make progress when its own citizens are such inobjective critics of their own Nation?

Right on page one aribisala0 wrote:

we are so smart and we need lebanese to run the restaurants at our airports 

I was the only one who challenged this highly inobjective example from a person keen to wallow in self hatred of his Country to the extent that everything to him that we do or don't do is a negative indictment of Nigeria. I must tell all of you that normal citizens of a country don't behave like this . They can criticise their Country but they won't stand for their country to be maligned falsely . I wrote in response:

Does a Nigerian not own Gatwick Airport? Is this how you plan to make this thread an intellectualy stimulating one? I.e using highly subjective examples , IMO, aimed at denigrating Nigerians and Nigeria rather than using fair analogy that encourages stimulating and educative discussion? Must the Lebanese not run any business in Nigeria now ? What if the Lebanese proprietor won the concession legitimately? Do you know how 'connected' the Lebanese proprietor is?

You would have a point if , rather than one measly example, it is the Lebanese who own Mr.Biggs, Tantaliser, Tasty fried Chicken, Chicken Republic and the other restaurant chains in Nigeria only hardwork , and not connection, secures. Do you know what obtains in Ghana and in other African Countries? In Ghana for example the main restaurant chains are Frankies, Chicken republic, Mr. Biggs and Papaye. Please go and find out if any of the above are Ghanaian owned and come back to talk. I am not into putting anyone down but I resent those who deliberately want to put Nigerians down just to make others look good.

Yes , there are bragadocious Nigerians with a superiority complex but many Nigerians are confident yet gracious. Your topic is interesting if presented with objectivity and without palpable bias against Nigerians.

Yet all folks could focus on , while ignoring what they[b] must see[/b] as normal citizens of Nigeria , was that I said a Nigerian owns Gatwick . How most folks glaringly ignored what is important (the inobjective accusation against Nigeria) to focus and talk on what is trivial exposes the huge cataract in their eyes that makes them not understand that they are now firmly part of the problem of Nigeria. They don't even realise that they too do not believe in Nigeria enough to even defend her , as non-Nigerians would do for their Country, when Nigeria is maligned wrongly. They prefer to ignore what is important to begin speaking as it is others who are the problem of Nigeria.

Above, the Gatwick example was only made to show that it is acceptable in modern Countries for foreigners to own businesses, concessions and important companies. What would indicate a problem is when foreigners own most things worthwhile in a nation as is the ironic case with a West African nation aribisala0 is always keen , perhaps out of sheer ignorance of what is on the ground, to praise as an example of those nations showing that "Nigerians are not smart" . The ignorance of what obtains in other nation , that leads many Nigerians to demonize Nigeria, is truly shocking to me personally.  A lebanese person owning a restaurant at a Nigerian airport can only be considered a negative indictment against Nigeria by someone looking at issues without objectivity. Afterall , many foreigners own British football clubs and businesses . Al Fayed owned the most British of Businesses i.e Harrods. I guess it is either that the British are not smart or that , for any objective person, the Brits have just accepted the trends set to be the norm in the global village that sees borders shrinking.

Aribisala0 then wrote this with no one challenging it:

here at my local Tesco supermarket you can buy ghanaian yams,plantain and tinned Tuna. why? because their not so smart government officials INSIST on quid pro quo concessions for even the smallest contracts.

Folks, you are Nigerians. Is what is written above not ridiculous and meriting a reply from any of you? Some Countries far more developed than Nigerian and Ghana don't have their products at Tesco yet a Nigerian can contend that because Nigerian products are not sitting next to Ghanaian products at his local Tesco we are "not smart" ? Haba ? I cannot even begin to go into the millions of very obvious reasons , non of which are negative, that may explain why Nigerian products are not on the shelves of Tesco !!!!

You guys should all wake up and smell the Coffee !!! You are all part of the problem. It is very obvious that most of you are now so uncharitable towards your Country that you casually fail to see what is obvious in preference for believing yourself , in your diasporan bases, to be innocent while contending others are the problem. I can tell some of you[b] categorically[/b] that you are even damaging your nation unfairly with what you write that demonstrates your wholesale ignorance of what obtains , on the ground , in other Nations!!!!! 

If most of you become involved in influential positions you will quickly become those you criticise. The problem with Nigeria iscertainly not what many of you claim it is. That much is demonstrated by what you are all writing to include what you choose to comment on and what you fail to see or perhaps prefer to deliberately ignore.

you are back?
couldn't stay away?

aribisala0:

you are back?
couldn't stay away?

Affirmative Action Oxford graduates are like that.

Smartness to everyday nigerians means dubiousness,how to cheat and lie cheaply.

Since it is ethical to be dubious in nigeria as shown by d leaders,everyday ngerans thinks it is cool and smart to be dubious

gbam!

D concept of smartness in nigeria tows along a very shallow,myopic and destructive part in nigeria