advocatejare:

Jeremiah was just emotional, God didn’t deceive him.

If your father promise to buy you a toy if you’re obedient but you refuse to be obedient and your father too refuse to buy you the toy because you didn’t meet up with your own side of the agreement, does that mean that your father has deceived you?


If God promised peace to Jerusalem and to anyone who follows his commandments, the moment you deviate and you refuse to repent, God’s wrath will be poured on you, so God didn’t deceive the people of Jerusalem, they were the one that didn’t go with the agreement to obey God:

Jeremiah 11:2-5
Listen to the terms of this covenant and tell them to the people of Judah and to those who live in Jerusalem.
Tell them that this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: `Cursed is the man who does not obey the terms of this covenant

the terms I commanded your forefathers when I brought them out of Egypt, out of the iron-smelting furnace.' I said, `Obey me and do everything I command you, and you will be my people, and I will be your God.

Then I will fulfill the oath I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey'--the land you possess today." I answered, "Amen, LORD."


Jeremiah 42:18
This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: ‘As my anger and wrath have been poured out on those who lived in Jerusalem, so will my wrath be poured out on you when you go to Egypt. You will be a curse and an object of horror, a curse and an object of reproach; you will never see this place again.’


You didn’t explain anything to me, Allah is Al-Makireena the best of the deceivers, same as the devil

oh Jeremiah was just emotional?

Well play if to say it is Qur'an,will u say this?

Well apart from emotional Jeremiah


If a Prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I the Lord have deceived that Prophet” (Ezekiel 14:9)


Yahweh said this with his own mouth, whether u deny or not,that is your problem

abdelrahman:
oh Jeremiah was just emotional?

Well play if to say it is Qur'an,will u say this?

I’m happy that you now know that Allah is a mere entity that can be compared to a human being like Jeremiah

I’ve proven to you that Yahweh never deceived Jeremiah

Well apart from emotional Jeremiah


If a Prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I the Lord have deceived that Prophet” (Ezekiel 14:9)


Yahweh said this with his own mouth, whether u deny or not,that is your problem

Show me where Yahweh called himself the best of the deceivers like Allah the Satan and I’ll teach you as usual

abdelrahman:

oh Jeremiah was just emotional?
Well play if to say it is Qur'an,will u say this?
Well apart from emotional Jeremiah
If a Prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I the Lord have deceived that Prophet” (Ezekiel 14:9)

Yahweh said this with his own mouth, whether u deny or not,that is your problem

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. Ezekiel 14:9

If you're quoting the Bible try to quote the verse completely so that you can gain insight, the Bible is not inspired by your Allah.
If God said i deceived and will destroy it simply means such a prophet is not working for God so God will intervene in order for such false prophet not to continue misleading faithful people who loves honouring God's prophet!

MaxInDHouse:


And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. Ezekiel 14:9

If you're quoting the Bible try to quote the verse completely so that you can gain insight, the Bible is not inspired by your Allah.
If God said i deceived and will destroy it simply means such a prophet is not working for God so God will intervene in order for such false prophet not to continue misleading faithful people who loves honouring God's prophet!

when your colleague was interpreting the Quran out of context didn't you see. If you can't correct your colleague then there is no point explaining anything if you guys won't accept the explanation giving to you why should we accept yours. It's Tit for Tat and that was not directed at you..

Quran was not inspired by your god

ALLAH IS ALLAH EVERYWHERE. GOD IS GOD AND THE LORD IS THE ISSUE EVERYWHERE.

haekymbahd:
when your colleague was interpreting the Quran out of context didn't you see. If you can't correct your colleague then there is no point explaining anything if you guys won't accept the explanation giving to you why should we accept yours. It's Tit for Tat and that was not directed at you..

Quran was not inspired by your god

I love the way you concluded:
Qur'an was not inspired by my God!
Meanwhile i don't have any colleague except members of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Thanks for the understanding!

advocatejare:

I’m happy that you now know that Allah is a mere entity that can be compared to a human being like Jeremiah

I’ve proven to you that Yahweh never deceived Jeremiah



Show me where Yahweh called himself the best of the deceivers like Allah the Satan and I’ll teach you as usual

what a dumb nigga


Yahweh used his own mouth to talk about his deceit and Jeremiah also talked about it many times and u are still argue?

MaxInDHouse:


And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. Ezekiel 14:9

If you're quoting the Bible try to quote the verse completely so that you can gain insight, the Bible is not inspired by your Allah.
If God said i deceived and will destroy it simply means such a prophet is not working for God so God will intervene in order for such false prophet not to continue misleading faithful people who loves honouring God's prophet!

Mr insight then explain deceit that Yahweh was talking about there.

abdelrahman:

Mr insight then explain deceit that Yahweh was talking about there.

There were prophets in ancient times that God used to speak to His people but some became materialistic due to the way people regards them, they feel it's wrong if they are highly respected in the society but they have nothing to show for it.
Then they try to monetize their services then God will no longer use them but a demon will start appearing to them claiming he is God Almighty and God will not intervene until the materialistic prophet is exposed and dealt with ruthlessly. That is where the deceit comes in not that God will deceive a honest and faithful prophet, He (God) said:

For Jehovah God is a sun and a shield; He gives favor and glory. Jehovah will not hold back anything good From those walking in integrity. Psalms 84:11

May you have PEACE!

MaxInDHouse:


There were prophets in ancient times that God used to speak to His people but some became materialistic due to the way people regards them, they feel it's wrong if they are highly respected in the society but they have nothing to show for it.
Then they try to monetize their services then God will no longer use them but a demon will start appearing to them claiming he is God Almighty and God will not intervene until the materialistic prophet is exposed and dealt with ruthlessly. That is where the deceit comes in not that God will deceive a honest and faithful prophet, He (God) said:

For Jehovah God is a sun and a shield; He gives favor and glory. Jehovah will not hold back anything good From those walking in integrity. Psalms 84:11

May you have PEACE!

We know, who sent the demons to deceive prophets.


I kings

20 And the Lord said, Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? One said this way, another said that way.

21Then there came forth a spirit [of whom I am about to tell] and stood before the Lord and said, I will entice him.

22 The Lord said to him, By what means? And he said, I will go forth and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets. [The Lord] said, You shall entice him and succeed also. Go forth and do it.

23 So the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets; and the Lord has spoken evil concerning you.


You said God won't intervene but we see here that he was the one sending the deceiving spirits

abdelrahman:
what a dumb nigga

You lack home training on how to engage in a civil discussion.

Yahweh used his own mouth to talk about his deceit and Jeremiah also talked about it many times and u are still argue?

Allah boasts in the Quran to be the best of the deceivers, Satan.

Allah boasts in the Quran to be a deceiver, go and deal with your Satan god


“Indeed, the hypocrites [think to] deceive Allah, but He is deceiving them. And when they stand for prayer, they stand lazily, showing [themselves to] the people and not remembering Allah except a little”
- Quran 4:142

haekymbahd:
We know, who sent the demons to deceive prophets.
I kings
20 And the Lord said, Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? One said this way, another said that way.
21Then there came forth a spirit [of whom I am about to tell] and stood before the Lord and said, I will entice him.
22 The Lord said to him, By what means? And he said, I will go forth and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets. [The Lord] said, You shall entice him and succeed also. Go forth and do it.
23 So the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets; and the Lord has spoken evil concerning you.
You said God won't intervene but we see here that he was the one sending the deceiving spirits

You misconstrued everything my friend!

Here you're talking about Ahab (a king) who gathered false prophets when Elijah the true prophet of God is in Israel. Your brother quoted where God said he will deceive a prophet not a King.
For your information, the King already knew that those surrounding him are not the prophets of the true God (Jehovah) but rather they are prophets of Baal. So those prophets need to say something and they need to see something before speaking that's what happened there. But in the case of a true prophet who later became materialistic God is the one using him but He will no more use him now that he wants to monetize God's work.
That's what we are saying!

advocatejare:

You lack home training on how to engage in a civil discussion.

brain has left u since

advocatejare:

Allah boasts in the Quran to be the best of the deceivers, Satan.

u read the beginning of the ayah and u immediately concluded it Is deceive?

advocatejare:


“Indeed, the hypocrites [think to] deceive Allah, but He is deceiving them. And when they stand for prayer, they stand lazily, showing [themselves to] the people and not remembering Allah except a little”
- Quran 4:142

hmm kontinue

Now compare it to this

Then I said, “Alas, Sovereign LORD! How completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our throats!”

abdelrahman:
brain has left u since


u read the beginning of the ayah and u immediately concluded it Is deceive?







hmm kontinue

Now compare it to this

Then I said, “Alas, Sovereign LORD! How completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our throats!”

Allah is not only a deceiver but the best of the deceivers, the same title of Satan, the father of lies.

Quran 8:30
wa-idh yamkuru bika alladhīna kafarū liyuth'bitūka aw yaqtulūka aw yukh'rijūka wayamkurūna wayamkuru l-lahu wal-lahu khayru l-mākirīna

And when those who disbelieved deceive/scheme at you to affix/affirm you, or kill you, or bring you out, and they scheme/deceive , and Allah deceives/schemes and Allah (is) best (of) the deceivers/schemers.

Makirina is from (مَكْر [makir] ) which means cunning, deceptive, guile.


Indeed, the hypocrites [think to] deceive Allah, but He(Allah) is deceiving them. And when they stand for prayer, they stand lazily, showing [themselves to] the people and not remembering Allah except a little
- Quran 4:142

advocatejare:

Sure. Same way you learn the sayings of Muhammad from the hadith and the Quran

Ok

Then you’d be a hypocrite if you retain what you condemned as idolatry ! Like the Kaaba and the rest, it’s stated in the sahih Hadith that Muhammad wanted to demolish the Kaaba but changed his mind because he knew that his people were already attached to the paganism called Kaaba.

You seem to have an assumption on my position.

Zoroastrian have their own God called Ahura Mazda whom they believed is the supreme God of the universe and the most compassionate and not Allah.

They had their own prophet called Zoroaster and not Muhammad.

They used to pray 50 times a day until Zoroaster claimed to have travelled to heaven to negotiate that the prayers should be reduced to 5.

Muhammad copied everything verbatim including the night journey to heaven.

Muhammad changed Ahura Mazda to Allah and Zoroaster to himself.


If Muhammad was serving the God of Abraham, then he must have lied that he went to negotiate that 50 times daily prayers prayed by his predecessors be reduced to 5, because no Jewish prophets or people ever prayed 50 daily prayers, as a matter of fact Muhammad met Jews observing 3 times daily prayers and Muhammad also did the same until he was exposed as being a false prophet and he decided to join Zoroastrians who were observing 5 daily prayers even before Muhammad was born. So how come Muhammad claimed the glory of helping them negotiate their prayers down from 50 to 5 when he himself never met them praying 50 daily prayers?

Alright, fair enough. That's why I'd recommend people to study other religions to make such blatant plagiarisms obvious.

Zoroastrians use sun, moon and stars or any light source as a symbol of worship, Muhammad retained same in Islam and that’s why you have the moon and star on your mosques’ minarets

we've talked about this before, but your postulation that time was about how such symbolism was inferring a worship to the pre-Islamic moon deity. I don't have the energy to argue on this again.

Many were referred to sons of God but only Jesus was referred to as the only gene (monogene) of God which was translated as the only begotten son of God.

This is the word that was translated as "only begotten" μονογενῆ it's a Greek word pronounced as mounogenḗs which is pronounced as /mo.no.ɡe.nɛ̌ːs/ which means "only of a kind "
μόνος (mónos, “only”) +‎ -γενής (-genḗs, “of a kind”)

https://biblehub.com/text/john/3-16.htm)


What makes Jesus’ own special was because he was sinless, his death and resurrection was foretold:

John 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,

Isaiah 53.5
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.


Matthew 20:28
Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 10:18
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Jesus’ innocence:

Matthew 27:4 – Judas betrayed Jesus, but later he said he had betrayed innocent blood.

John 18:38; 19:4,6 – Pilate was the Roman governor responsible for the trial of Jesus. Three times Pilate said that He found no fault in Jesus.

Matthew 27:19 – Pilate’s wife sent him a message saying Jesus was righteous.

Matthew 27:24 – Pilate washed his hands saying Jesus was innocent.

Luke 23:15 – Pilate sent Jesus to King Herod for a hearing. Later Pilate said Herod found nothing in Jesus worthy of death.

Luke 23:41 – One of the thieves crucified with Jesus acknowledged his own guilt but said Jesus had done nothing wrong.

Luke 23:47 – The centurion in charge of the crucifixion declared that Jesus was a righteous man.

My Bible and gospel knowledge is lacking to engage with this more meaningfully.
I'll come back, if and when I have the time & energy to go through it.

The reason Muslims can’t talk about Muhammad’s death freely is because his death as no positive spiritual significance. He was poisoned and died with his aorta torn like foretold in the Quran that if Muhammad was falsifying things, he would be cut in the aorta:

And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings,"
(QS. Al-Haaqqa 69: Verse 44)


لَأَخَذْنَا مِنْهُ بِالْيَمِينِ
"We would have seized him by the right hand;"
(QS. Al-Haaqqa 69: Verse 45)


ثُمَّ لَقَطَعْنَا مِنْهُ الْوَتِينَ
"Then We would have cut from him the aorta."
(QS. Al-Haaqqa 69: Verse 46)


Sahih Bukhari Vol 5 book 59 Hadith 713
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

You make the error of invoking the Qur'an when you don't believe in it.
So would you say Muhammad was predicting his own death, or was that Allah or God speaking through him, to tell him he's wrong?

Islam own is not about influence but about stealing from people and claiming it as theirs from the days of Muhammad. All the new influences in Christianity were not present in the days of Jesus

Ok

Sunnis believe they are following the exact ways and deeds of Muhammad and they see other sects as misguided.

Sunnis believe they are the only group of Muslims that will enter paradise. So if Sunni are following pagans, that only confirmed that Muhammad did the same because Sunnis follow Muhammad in everything.

Debatable, even the Sunni's practice of Islam is different to that of Muhammad's time. Every group believes they are the only true followers/practitioners of their way of life, and will be the only ones to make heaven because of it.

IMAliyu:

You make the error of invoking the Qur'an when you don't believe in it.

But you believe in it, I can only make you reason in a book you believe in.

So would you say Muhammad was predicting his own death, or was that Allah or God speaking through him, to tell him he's wrong?

Muhammad said he was possessed, so it may be the demons speaking through him.

Idol worshippers are always given terms and conditions to meet, failure of which will earn them serious punishment from their idols!


Muhammad’s own was not to falsify things his idol told him, but muhammad kept on revealing revelations that were in his favour and claiming that Jibreel was revealing it to him. Like the case of Zainab Zayd’s wife, taking 1/5th of war booty, having access to uncountable number of women to sleep with, revealing that people should go home after wedding banquet with zainab and so on.


So it was logical for his idol to deal with him because he broke the rules!