Can somebody send all these picturs to our indolent Peter Obi.

Tell him that governors now spend money executing projects and not building propaganda billboards!

ekt_bear:

I don't mind patriotism, but as a citizen of State X, I'd want State X to set its priority to be delivering the most value for the money. The FG can afford to do "patriotic" subsidies or whatever. But State X must stretch its cash as far as it can go.

Calm down. Don't make it too complex for most of your audience. A lot of Nigerian students or even graduates can not reason analytically like that. They are just used to jumping at the first line of thought that comes to their mind.

We keep on churning out semi-educated illiterates.

coal city state without one single train. una no dey shame? go get some train jare

earlalright:

coal city state without one single train. una no dey shame? go get some train jare

What are your grounds for thinking trains are needed?

What makes you think it is financially viable for the government at this point?

Why do you think I should be priority out of all the pressing necessities of the state?

@ Sagamite & ekt_bear,

Really I don't see d wrong in making such compromise of higher cost against very high local content. The key word is currently unparalleled "local content". Even international organizations as EU, UN, USAID, and other similar agencies run similar policies in their host countries. It's a pity I haven't seen d local content bill, but I wld naturally expect dt such provision is made. It is to reduce competitive disadvantage of d newbie local against d more advantaged foreigner. So if any serious government wishes to develop her domestic industry, it is usual practice to give some form of direct or indirect assistance. But what assistance wld ds govt claim to hav given ds fledgling company; import rebate on parts and machinery? Raw materials? Power? Other utilities? Tax holiday? What, just what?

So if it is by direct patronage is dt incentive going to come, I think they have earned dt due. I had rather suggest dt d govt while patronizing them directly and indirectly on one hand should also send quality and safety programme enforcement after them.

Nigeria economy is not such dat can run fully on capitalism yet, there must b provision for sort of socialism until d poverty level is reduced to a much lower ratio than we have.

Great, I am beginning to see that Nigeria will change one state at a time. Governors are acting under a new wave of boldness.

homerac7:

@ Sagamite & ekt_bear,

Really I don't see d wrong in making such compromise of higher cost against very high local content. The key word is currently unparalleled "local content". Even international organizations as EU, UN, USAID, and other similar agencies run similar policies in their host countries. It's a pity I haven't seen d local content bill, but I wld naturally expect dt such provision is made. It is to reduce competitive disadvantage of d newbie local against d more advantaged foreigner. So if any serious government wishes to develop her domestic industry, it is usual practice to give some form of direct or indirect assistance. But what assistance wld ds govt claim to hav given ds fledgling company; import rebate on parts and machinery? Raw materials? Power? Other utilities? Tax holiday? What, just what?

So if it is by direct patronage is dt incentive going to come, I think they have earned dt due. I had rather suggest dt d govt while patronizing them directly and indirectly on one hand should also send quality and safety programme enforcement after them.

Nigeria economy is not such dat can run fully on capitalism yet, there must b provision for sort of socialism until d poverty level is reduced to a much lower ratio than we have.

Chairman, we are not really saying there should not be a compromise for high cost and leg up for local firms.

What we are saying is that there should be some judgement incorporating assessment of quality and cost disparity that is not too disadvantageous.

Driving local firms to be aware that it needs to be up to scratch on quality and be price competitive is good for the local firm and local economy. Furthermore, competition is good for development and (what I call) xenoconomics is not good for development.

That is how I want these young Nigerians to start thinking and qualifying issues, not just screaming "if it is given to a local firm, it is a good thing".

To summarise: Give it to a local firm only if they can deliver to a threshold quality and price that is not far off what a foreign firm can, and they can improve to beat/match the foreign firm in quality and price within a medium-term timeline.

homerac7:

@ Sagamite & ekt_bear,

Really I don't see d wrong in making such compromise of higher cost against very high local content. The key word is currently unparalleled "local content".

Right. If you are only paying say $500 or $1K extra per bus, and each bus creates 200 or 500 hours worth of work in your state, then sure. . . probably not the worst thing to do.

Even international organizations as EU, UN, USAID, and other similar agencies run similar policies in their host countries. It's a pity I haven't seen d local content bill, but I wld naturally expect dt such provision is made. It is to reduce competitive disadvantage of d newbie local against d more advantageous foreigner. So if any serious government wishes to develop her domestic industry, it is usual practice to give some form of direct or indirect assistance. But what assistance wld ds govt claim to hav given ds fledgling company; import rebate on parts and machinery? Raw materials? Power? Other utilities? Tax holiday? What, just what?  So if it is by direct patronage is dt incentive going to come, I think they have earned dt due. I had rather suggest dt d govt while patronizing them directly and indirectly on one hand should also send quality and safety programme enforcement after them.

I'm not condemning Enugu for doing this. It is certainly their own choice. But I just think you have to be careful how you do it. State-subsidized capitalism isn't a terrible thing, but you have to make sure that you are subsidizing something that you aren't too far away from being competitive in. Otherwise it just becomes a financial burden.

Nigeria economy is not such dat can run fully on capitalism yet, there must b provision for sort of socialism until d poverty level is reduced to a much lower ratio than we have.

I'm not a dogmatic capitalist, I see the value in the government protecting local industry. I'm just wondering if this is the mandate of the state government, and not a task better left for the federal government.

As I said, for my own state, I want them to be as efficient with their resources as possible. If we as a nation decide we want to support industry X, then fine, let's come up with some coordinated strategy for supporting it, one led by the FG. Not one led by the states, which like I said imo have a different mandate.

Lets assume the buses are more expensive than if imported from China. I believe that is the only place you can get cheaper buses than the Nigerian one (do not even tell me about US or Euro made buses).

Now, how about using several stones to kill one bird:

Buy the expensive buses (if indeed they are more expensive) from a Nigerian manufacturer (as long as value for money is guaranteed), thereby:
1. Increasing local content - (a) jobs, and (b) investment in Nigeria -incentive for citizens
2. Save money that will be spent at the wharf clearing the vehicles and in transporting them from the port to Enugu
3. Save time that will be spent waiting for the shipment to arrive and be cleared (our custom service is not the most efficient in the world)
4. Recover your cost, as expected, from the commuters over time and everybody is happy
5. Reduce the temptation to collude with the foreign company to inflate prices and defraud the state in the process. It is easier to detect fraud in the purchasing process if done right at home under the governor's nose.
6. Easier to get after sale services right there in Enugu than looking for spare parts back in China.

That way, money that otherwise will go to service Chinese (or whatever other country you import from) industrial development and those that will go to the feds from port services, will circulate at home in Enugu state.

Enugu people and their govt are not dumb.
After rushing to make profits abroad, America is now doing whatever it takes to bring back the jobs that were taken to Asia due to low cost.
Yeah! Quest for quick gains is understandable.
But under the circumstance that Nigeria is at the present time (low investment=low jobs=low middle class=high crime rate), sacrifice is needed in the short-run to achieve long-run impacts (aka sustainability).

In the long run and all factors considered,, it will by far be cheaper to buy from a home industry (as long as standards are comparable) than from abroad. The home industry will be ''fed'' with money from govt patronage; consequently, they will produce, multiply, employ people, and pay taxes back to the government. Simple arithmetic, as they say.

Sagamite:

That is how I want these young Nigerians to start thinking and qualifying issues, not just screaming "if it is given to a local firm, it is a good thing".

To summarise: Give it to a local firm only if they can deliver to a threshold quality and price that is not far off what a foreign firm can, and they can improve to beat/match the foreign firm in quality and price within a medium-term timeline.

Young folk all across the world think in the same exact way. Heck, young and old folk So I think you are holding Nigerians to too high a standard.

But yeah, your point is a good one. . . people need to think a bit more about the pros and cons of different policies.

@ sagamite & ekt_bear,

I agree fully wt u.

But bear, u knw how slack and irresponsible d fg is at most times whereas d state govts r about d first beneficiaries of d industrialization, on dt, I wld support dt d states assist since dey will get it back somehow. Though I get ur conditions as spelt out above and by sagamite too.

ekt_bear:

Young folk all across the world think in the same exact way. Heck, young and old folk So I think you are holding Nigerians to too high a standard.

But yeah, your point is a good one. . . people need to think a bit more about the pros and cons of different policies.

No, mate.

Speak to the average UK graduate and they are far more analytical.

If not capable, they will say so and not comment.

An average Naija grad will give you ponmo N50 analysis (or stewpidity) whilst beating their chest and will rather die than take a correction because of "No one wan carry last" mentality.

homerac7:

@ sagamite & ekt_bear,

I agree fully wt u.

But bear, u knw how slack and irresponsible d fg is at most times whereas d state govts r about d first beneficiaries of d industrialization, on dt, I wld support dt d states assist since dey will get it back somehow. Though I get your conditions as spelt out above and by sagamite too.

See, this is the whole matter. "Get it back somehow", what does that mean? What exactly do you mean by this? Is it

A) Subsidize the company now and hope that eventually they'll achieve some point where economies of scale kick in and they can stand alone w/o subsidies?

B) Or you could mean, "We don't mind paying slightly more for these cars, because we know that for every $1 we spend on subsidies it creates X jobs."

Case B, I don't have too much of a problem with, if X is big enough.

Case A. . . is this business of assembling knockdown cars/buses from Chinese kits the type where economies of scale will kick in? I don't know.

ekt_bear:

If it turns out that:
A) it cheaper to assemble Chinese buses (IVM) rather than import them directly
B) the state governments were interested in sourcing Chinese buses

Then definitely. But I'm not sure that (A) and (B) are true in all cases.

ekt bear read this

adejoro75:

Lets assume the buses are more expensive than if imported from China. I believe that is the only place you can get cheaper buses than the Nigerian one (do not even tell me about US or Euro made buses).

Now, how about using several stones to kill one bird:

Buy the expensive buses (if indeed they are more expensive) from a Nigerian manufacturer (as long as value for money is guaranteed), thereby:
1. Increasing local content - (a) jobs, and (b) investment in Nigeria -incentive for citizens
2. Save money that will be spent at the wharf clearing the vehicles and in transporting them from the port to Enugu
3. Save time that will be spent waiting for the shipment to arrive and be cleared (our custom service is not the most efficient in the world)
4. Recover your cost, as expected, from the commuters over time and everybody is happy
5. Reduce the temptation to collude with the foreign company to inflate prices and defraud the state in the process. It is easier to detect fraud in the purchasing process if done right at home under the governor's nose.
6. [size=13pt]Easier to get after sale services right there in Enugu than looking for spare parts back in China[/size].

That way, money that otherwise will go to service Chinese (or whatever other country you import from) industrial development and those that will go to the feds from port services, will circulate at home in Enugu state.

just as i have put it

there is nothing complex in this, it is always wise to invest in your country than another country most especially if ur country already has a company that produce such product

Along with d points u raised is also d benefits of tax and other charges. If I ( state govt) pay extra #1m for a locally made bus, and at end of day, I know dt I will make over same amount from d mushroom businesses dt will spring around d company in tax, I will happily pay.

homerac7:

Along with d points u raised is also d benefits of tax and other charges. If I ( state govt) pay extra #1m for a locally made bus, and at end of day, I know dt I will make over same amount from d mushroom businesses dt will spring around d company in tax, I will happily pay.

thank you

@alj harem, I didn't bother responding to that post because for one, at least a few of the points raised are not really important.

Anyway, this stuff is complicated. We can agree to disagree.

ekt_bear:

@alj harem, I didn't bother responding to that post because for one, at least a few of the points raised are not really important.

Anyway, this stuff is complicated. We can agree to disagree.

I like this idea, very nice of them; I never knew that Nigeria manufactured buses.

Sagamite:

No, mate.

Speak to the average UK graduate and they are far more analytical.

If not capable, they will say so and not comment.

An average Naija grad will give you ponmo N50 analysis (or stewpidity) whilst beating their chest and will rather die than take a correction because of "No one wan carry last" mentality.

I guess u are being exaggarative or just plain delusional.

omanzo02:

I guess u are being exaggarative or just plain delusional.

Why do you think so?

nice development!

Yeah! I saw two of the bus donated to my school by Arthur of Ukpo. Nice product i must confess!

my friend drive an SUV his done 20 000 miles already the A/C in that SUV is like freezer but full of performance

ak47mann:

my friend drive an SUV his done 20 000 miles already the A/C in that SUV is like freezer but full of performance

are u advertising for innoson motors

proper igbo man

The buses are not just assembled locally.
Almost all the body panels are also locally made so it is not just CKD assembly

I almost lost my temper when I read ekt-bear confidently saying that IVM only assembles CKD parts of BUSES FROM CHINA. Pally pls get your facts straight before posting them on a public forum. The buses plus other vehicles are all manufactured at Nnewi and the President as represented by Nemadi Sambo commissioned the opening of that plant. A delegation from the Nig Society of Engineers have also visited the plant and were impressed with the fact that the vehicles were actually manufactured there.

Most of the Enugu BRT buses which used to be ANAMCO-made are now IVM-made. I noticed the change about two months ago. So some Innoson buses are already plying the Enugu Intra-city routes. They even have a sleeker and modern look (larger windows like GreyHound buses) than previous car makes. I've even noticed some IVM buses in the transporter, Autostar Express fleet. NLders resident in Abj or Lag could also lookout for the buses to verify this.

It's a really bold step; what the Innoson founder intends to achieve and it is really a thing of pride to have an indigenous car manufacturing company right here in Nigeria. I'm patiently waiting for the day they'll take on other challenging jobs of designing and manufacturing non-commuter vehicles (sedans, SUVs, etc). Then we can appraise them fully to confirm that they've actually arrived.

P.S. The Innoson car brand is identified by their IVM (Innoson Vehicle Manufacturing) logo. Just in case you get to see any of their vehicles.

P.P.S: I'm neither an indigene of Enugu nor Anambra O. Or even an Innoson affiliate. Its just that when I see a thing of pride truly being achieved, I can make all the noise possible about it. Ikiri should have replicated Sullivan's performances in Imo state. Let's hope for the best sha.

Even if u the bus can only last 4 weeks it doesn't matter what matters is @ 5O 9ja can do something like dis and i no we can do even more dan the whites. Three kpoza 9ja.

@Tineemeka: Really?   What exactly is manufactured by Innoson?

I looked into the matter some months ago and it looked like local assembly of knock down kits from China, not actual manufacturing.

See this for example:

The new factory will assemble up to 100 vehicles a day, using about 30% local content at start of operations, which will be scaled up to the world average of 60% local content as the operation builds. The remainder content will be sourced as CKD (completely knocked down) parts imported from China's Wuling Auto.

http://www.star1960.com/business-professionals/automaker-innoson-to-boost-local-economy-with-nigerian-car-factory/

Or page 208 of this book on google docs:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2rl5QF39S6cC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with local assembly. But it isn't local manufacturing.

Tinyemeka:

I almost lost my temper when I read ekt-bear confidently saying that IVM only assembles CKD parts of BUSES FROM CHINA. Pally pls get your facts straight before posting them on a public forum. The buses plus other vehicles are all manufactured at Nnewi and the President as represented by Nemadi Sambo commissioned the opening of that plant. A delegation from the Nig Society of Engineers have also visited the plant and were impressed with the fact that the vehicles were actually manufactured there.

Most of the Enugu BRT buses which used to be ANAMCO-made are now IVM-made. I noticed the change about two months ago. So some Innoson buses are already plying the Enugu Intra-city routes. They even have a sleeker and modern look (larger windows like GreyHound buses) than previous car makes. I've even noticed some IVM buses in the transporter, Autostar Express fleet. NLders resident in Abj or Lag could also lookout for the buses to verify this.

It's a really bold step; what the Innoson founder intends to achieve and it is really a thing of pride to have an indigenous car manufacturing company right here in Nigeria. I'm patiently waiting for the day they'll take on other challenging jobs of designing and manufacturing non-commuter vehicles (sedans, SUVs, etc). Then we can appraise them fully to confirm that they've actually arrived.

P.S. The Innoson car brand is identified by their IVM (Innoson Vehicle Manufacturing) logo. Just in case you get to see any of their vehicles.

P.P.S: I'm neither an indigene of Enugu nor Anambra O. Or even an Innoson affiliate. Its just that when I see a thing of pride truly being achieved, I can make all the noise possible about it. Ikiri should have replicated Sullivan's performances in Imo state. Let's hope for the best sha.

innoson motors do not maunfacture parts locallly, they are imported from china which i find very sad

but with nigerians trying to buy there product now, we hope they find the capital to start making it on there own.

^-- It looks like they try to make the plastics inside the car locally. But core pieces like engines? I doubt that is possible in Nigeria at this point, without a viable steel industry and no electricity.

They are to be commended though. Even if only 10% of the car is produced from local materials, this is better than nothing.