Myer:


If that's the way you see it, It's fine.
This your last point ehn? You want to start on theophany again? Lol

Anyway, like I said, we should open another thread some time for that or who knows some time we could meet in 7D.

On this topic of this thread though, how the bible came about is still up for discussion.

Great.
In all it wasn't a bad time discussing scriptures with you. Especially when it's mind engaging.

We surely will meet someday.

On the topic, I gave my submission earlier. Hope to contribute more.

Thank you for your time.

hupernikao:


Great.
In all it wasn't a bad time discussing scriptures with you. Especially when it's mind engaging.

We surely will meet someday.

On the topic, I gave my submission earlier. Hope to contribute more.

Thank you for your time.

Yea, same here.
Like minds. The mind of Christ perhaps.lol

Mind engagement is interesting but more than that I long for spiritual engagement viz the manifestations of the Word and power of the Holyspirit in us, through us and around us. God knows we need it now more than ever individually and as a nation and generation.

I remember back when evangelism was my daily joy, it was a challenge meeting people with real life challenges and after preaching the gospel to them, they confessed their sins and placed their faith in Christ. After prayers you believe God for the manifestations but nothing happened.

Over time I became discouraged.

That's why I don't really believe some portions of the bible anymore, which explains why this thread was opened.

You read an account of what is written that Jesus said in one gospel but not mentioned in any other gospel. And you wonder if truly Jesus said it or it was a product of biblical canonisation. Those who put the bible together decided what they wanted in the bible.

Myer:


Yea, same here.
Like minds. The mind of Christ perhaps.lol

Mind engagement is interesting but more than that I long for spiritual engagement viz the manifestations of the Word and power of the Holyspirit in us, through us and around us. God knows we need it now more than ever individually and as a nation and generation.

I remember back when evangelism was my daily joy, it was a challenge meeting people with real life challenges and after preaching the gospel to them, they confessed their sins and placed their faith in Christ. After prayers you believe God for the manifestations but nothing happened.

Over time I became discouraged.

That's why I don't really believe some portions of the bible anymore, which explains why this thread was opened.

You read an account of what is written that Jesus said in one gospel but not mentioned in any other gospel. And you wonder if truly Jesus said it or it was a product of biblical canonisation. Those who put the bible together decided what they wanted in the bible.

Hmmm.

Christianity was built upon the foundation of right Bible interpretation. That is what Jesus did 80% of his time, what all apostles spent their life on. Miracles, signs are good and perfect, they still happens today but they were never given to build a believer. They were not meant to be what determines our faith or the scriptures. Doctrine is the unchanging yard at which we search, seek, find and know God and what he truly says. The eternal life which is the word of God.

This is the reason a Christian walk must be founded upon a strong desire for Bible interpretation and sound doctrine not on miracles. Anything outside this can be manipulated, remade, adjusted, teleguided or worked by the adversaries.

This is the reason for the rise of organized rebellion like atheism even among those who claimed to be "former" Christian. They were exposed to falsehood of always getting what you want or desire. It stemmed from poor appreciation of proper Bible interpretations.


Any Christian life built outside a strong exposure and desire to know the scriptures by properly interpreting its message will be heading towards confusion.

This confusion may be evident in some worship places today, but we trust God.

Yes, we trust God, that the light of his word will spread more above all confusion and manipulation.

We pray that strong churches, local churches that are built on the foundation of strong desire for proper Bible interpretation not on self seeking benefits either by the preacher or the members will be heard louder in these days.

That the voice of the Spirit will be heard through proper Bible interpretations even among those who claim its unnecessary.

Yet, the miraculous will be seen in our midst more and more but will never take the place of rightly dividing the word which is what build men.

Amen.

hupernikao:



Hmmm.

Christianity was built upon the foundation of right Bible interpretation. That is what Jesus did 80% of his time, what all apostles spent their life on. Miracles, signs are good and perfect, they still happens today but they were never given to build a believer. They were not meant to be what determines our faith or the scriptures. Doctrine is the unchanging yard at which we search, seek, find and know God and what he truly says. The eternal life which is the word of God.

This is the reason a Christian walk must be founded upon a strong desire for Bible interpretation and sound doctrine not on miracles. Anything outside this can be manipulated, remade, adjusted, teleguided or worked by the adversaries.

This is the reason for the rise of organized rebellion like atheism even among those who claimed to be "former" Christian. They were exposed to falsehood of always getting what you want or desire. It stemmed from poor appreciation of proper Bible interpretations.


Any Christian life built outside a strong exposure and desire to know the scriptures by properly interpreting its message will be heading towards confusion.

This confusion may be evident in some worship places today, but we trust God.

Yes, we trust God, that the light of his word will spread more above all confusion and manipulation.

We pray that strong churches, local churches that are built on the foundation of strong desire for proper Bible interpretation not on self seeking benefits either by the preacher or the members will be heard louder in these days.

That the voice of the Spirit will be heard through proper Bible interpretations even among those who claim its unnecessary.

Yet, the miraculous will be seen in our midst more and more but will never take the place of rightly dividing the word which is what build men.

Amen.

Experiencing the miraculous during evangelism is a sound doctrine as exemplified by Christ and the Apostles.
Also as promised by Christ in Mark 16:17-18

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Myer:


Experiencing the miraculous during evangelism is a sound doctrine as exemplified by Christ and the Apostles.
Also as promised by Christ in Mark 16:17-18

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Not sure this contradict my stand. Likewise the miraculous in evangelism isnt what build a believer. Teaching does. I will trust more a believer who put the learning of God's word in high esteem than one who rest on the miraculous. That is the teaching in the Bible.

hupernikao:


Not sure this contradict my stand. Likewise the miraculous in evangelism isnt what build a believer. Teaching does. I will trust more a believer who put the learning of God's word in high esteem than one who rest on the miraculous. That is the teaching in the Bible.

We didn't contradict. Just pointing out that expecting miracles is not a wrong doctrine.

The church as we know should have various facets/ministries- some teachers, evangelists, prophets, pastors and apostles (Ephesians 4:11) with their corresponding spiritual gifts 1 Corinthans 12:7-12).

So we can't focus on just the pastor and teaching and neglect the prophets or evangelists. All are meant to work together to build the one body of Christ (Ecclesia) to fullness. Ephesians 3:17-18

Myer:


We didn't contradict. Just pointing out that expecting miracles is not a wrong doctrine.

The church as we know should have various facets/ministries- some teachers, evangelists, prophets, pastors and apostles (Ephesians 4:11) with their corresponding spiritual gifts 1 Corinthans 12:7-12).

So we can't focus on just the pastor and teaching and neglect the prophets or evangelists. All are meant to work together to build the one body of Christ (Ecclesia) to fullness. Ephesians 3:17-18

Primary role of all ministry gift is teaching. NOTE that word "PRIMARY".

Apostle is a teacher of God's Word
Prophet is a teacher of God's Word
Pastor is a teacher of God's Word
Evangelist is a teacher of God's Word

This is the primary role of everyone of them. So I am not saying miraculous should be abandoned. What I push is that it shouldn't be the basis of judging God's word or a minister of God.

He is a minister of God, that minister his word in truth. Hence the miracles will be a support anchor not the focus.

hupernikao:


Primary role of all ministry gift is teaching. NOTE that word "PRIMARY".

Apostle is a teacher of God's Word
Prophet is a teacher of God's Word
Pastor is a teacher of God's Word
Evangelist is a teacher of God's Word

This is the primary role of everyone of them. So I am not saying miraculous should be abandoned. What I push is that it shouldn't be the basis of judging God's word or a minister of God.

He is a minister of God, that minister his word in truth. Hence the miracles will be a support anchor not the focus.

This is simply your opinion.

If the primary role of all the ministry gifts is teaching then there will only be teachers.

A teacher teaches
A prophet prophesies
An evangelist preaches
A pastor leads
An Apostle plants churches.

You should already know these differences and that's what distinguishes them. Unless you're saying God or Paul didnt know what he was saying or "teaching".

Myer:


This is simply your opinion.

If the primary role of all the ministry gifts is teaching then there will only be teachers.

A teacher teaches
A prophet prophesies
An evangelist preaches
A pastor leads
An Apostle plants churches.

You should already know these differences and that's what distinguishes them. Unless you're saying God or Paul didnt know what he was saying or "teaching".

You like suggesting the scriptures stand as my opinion. You will need to cross check things I say with the scriptures.

Scriptures should define responsibilities for you not grammar or English.

All you need to do is to obverse all through the scriptures this roles and see what they did primarily.

What was Moses primary role Sir? To prophesy or to teach/shepherd?

Why was John the Baptist called a prophet? What was his primary role as seen in the Bible Prophesy or teach?

What of Isaiah? Ezekiel?

What exactly do a prophet does primarily? To prophesy, foretell or to speak/teach people God's plan?

We shouldn't be taking our conclusion from common motives or English meaning. We must look into the scriptures. Those roles are well seen in the Bible.

When you have checked this well, you should come to this conclusion.

That primary role of

Prophet is teaching.
Pastor is teaching
Evangelist is teaching
Apostle is teaching.

A ministry gift without a primary role of teaching isn't called of God. Take that to the bank.

[/b]

hupernikao:



You like suggesting the scriptures stand as my opinion. You will need to cross check things I say with the scriptures.

Scriptures should define responsibilities for you not grammar or English.

All you need to do is to obverse all through the scriptures this roles and see what they did primarily.

[b]What was Moses primary role Sir? To prophesy or to teach/shepherd?

Why was John the Baptist called a prophet? What was his primary role as seen in the Bible Prophesy or teach?

What of Isaiah? Ezekiel?

What exactly do a prophet does primarily? To prophesy, foretell or to speak/teach people God's plan?

We shouldn't be taking our conclusion from common motives or English meaning. We must look into the scriptures. Those roles are well seen in the Bible.

When you have checked this well, you should come to this conclusion.

That primary role of

Prophet is teaching.
Pastor is teaching
Evangelist is teaching
Apostle is teaching.

A ministry gift without a primary role of teaching isn't called of God. Take that to the bank.

Spiritual gifts are not taught.
Working of miracles isn't taught, prophesying isn't taught. Which is why I faulted your submission that all of the ministry is primarily teaching.

hupernikao:


You will need to reread John well to understand him. Your explanation of John wasn't John's thought but yours. John didn't say anything different from what Moses said.

John told you the word was God. He never spoke of two persons
That is the conclusion of that statement. So how does that contradict what Moses preached? One God, who John called the word borrowing the language of the OT, "the word of God" is God.

So how did the word of God become Jesus the man?

killyaselfie:


So mentally enslaved that he trivializes the death of a decent countryman all in veneration of foreign mythology.

A proper treatment would be the one given to the Jews by the Nazis.

What goes around comes around...

Your village is next..

sonmvayina:


So how did the word of God become Jesus the man?

Read The chapter as a conversation not as verses. It's stated there.

John was presenting a theology not writing verses like musicians.

VS 14 already showed you the answer.

VS 1, presented to you one God not two. Vs 14 presented to you same God in the flesh.

That is how he became. It's a poetic theology, read with such mind.

Myer:


Spiritual gifts are not taught.
Working of miracles isn't taught, prophesying isn't taught. Which is why I faulted your submission that all of the ministry is primarily teaching.

Spiritual gifts are well taught in the Bible. All you listed were taught.

Paul taught spiritual gift in 1 Cor 12,13,14. Dedicated a whole chapter to teaching it (14). This includes prophesying and all.

Jesus taught his disciples how to work miracles, he instructed them on what can go wrong.

He taught them faith in God.
He taught them how to remain filled with the spirit and how faith works.

Book of Acts showed you practical and true life events on how these gift were discovered and established in the church. We saw Stephen, Philip, we knew they were taught by the Apostles, who were prophets, teachers, Pastors and evangelist. They saw them taught it and work it. Hence the 7 deacons were students of the apostles doctrine.

Those were teachings.

To say such were not taught in the Bible is not correct.

Faith in God is the beginning of all gifts and calling. Faith in God was taught from Genesis to Revelation. The essence of such is to build men and walk in spirit gift.

See Moses bow teaching the primary role of a prophets. Not for prophesying or miracles but teaching to follow God

Deut 13
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder.
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass,

whereof he spake unto (taught) thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Jesus taught the same, Paul and Peter did. They were teaching emphasizing Moses.

A prophet who isn't a teacher of gods word, as primary duty should not be taken seriously.

We judge him by what he teaches. He if doesn't teach, we reject him.

This is the scripture stands.

sonmvayina:



What goes around comes around...

Your village is next..

The house Negroes – they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good ’cause they ate his food — what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved their master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master’s house quicker than the master would. The house Negro, if the master said, “We got a good house here,” the house Negro would say, “Yeah, we got a good house here.” Whenever the master said “we,” he said “we.” That’s how you can tell a house Negro.

If the master’s house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, “What’s the matter, boss, we sick?”

The above by Malcolm X is akin to our dear Sonmvayina; the one who has pierced both of his ears and called the jew his master for life. The mourner who wails louder than the bereaved.

sonmvayina:


So how did the word of God become Jesus the man?

The he same way the talking bush spoke to a man whose staff turned into a snake.

sonmvayina:
The bible is divided into two parts.

The Tanakh which comprises Genesis to Malachi. These book belongs to the jews. They were written by their scribes and elites. It is for their national religion called Judaism. The heart and soul of these is the Torah which contains God's laws.( Genesis to Deuteronomy) contrary to popular belief, the Torah was written by Ezra not Moses. Moses never existed. Ezra edited the babylonian Torah to arrive at its present form...which has remained unchanged since it was publish. They were written in Hebrew and Aramaic.
The second part called the new testament or the Christian testament is from Mathew to relegation. It was written by the Greeks and romans for the Roman empire. It was instigated by emperor Constantine who wanted a single religion for his empire. He called the presbyters to Nicea and after arguing for almost 15 years , christianity(catholic) was created as the official religion of the Roman empire..

Bravo!
This is the most verifiable summary of the Bible. It's obvious you have studied wide.

"THE BIBLE IS A REVELATION OF GOD TO MAN CONSISTING OF SIXTY-SIX BOOKS BOUND TOGETHER AND FORMING ONE BOOK. TWENTY-TWO OF THE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE ARE MAINLY HISTORICAL, TWENTY-ONE ARE LARGELY BOOKS OF PROPHECY, TWENTY-ONE ARE IN THE FORM OF LETTERS, AND TWO ARE PRIMARILY POETIC.

EVEN THOUGH WRITTEN BY AT LEAST THIRTY-SIX DIFFERENT AUTHORS WHO WERE KINGS, FARMERS. LAWYERS, GENERALS, FISHERMEN, MINISTERS AND PRIESTS, A TAX COLLECTOR, A DOCTOR, SOME RICH AND SOME POOR, STRETCHING OVER A PERIOD OF 1600 YEARS, YET THE BIBLE IS ONE BOOK BECAUSE GOD WAS ITS REAL AUTHOR".

"THE BIBLE IS A REVELATION OF GOD TO MAN CONSISTING OF SIXTY-SIX BOOKS BOUND TOGETHER AND FORMING ONE BOOK. TWENTY-TWO OF THE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE ARE MAINLY HISTORICAL, TWENTY-ONE ARE LARGELY BOOKS OF PROPHECY, TWENTY-ONE ARE IN THE FORM OF LETTERS, AND TWO ARE PRIMARILY POETIC.

EVEN THOUGH WRITTEN BY AT LEAST THIRTY-SIX DIFFERENT AUTHORS WHO WERE KINGS, FARMERS. LAWYERS, GENERALS, FISHERMEN, MINISTERS AND PRIESTS, A TAX COLLECTOR, A DOCTOR, SOME RICH AND SOME POOR, STRETCHING OVER A PERIOD OF 1600 YEARS, YET THE BIBLE IS ONE BOOK BECAUSE GOD WAS ITS REAL AUTHOR".

From Orunto27

killyaselfie:


The he same way the talking bush spoke to a man whose staff turned into a snake.

Ok, but you know the burning bush story is a metaphorical story. I suppose it is same for the Jesus story.

hupernikao:


Read The chapter as a conversation not as verses. It's stated there.

John was presenting a theology not writing verses like musicians.

VS 14 already showed you the answer.

VS 1, presented to you one God not two. Vs 14 presented to you same God in the flesh.

That is how he became. It's a poetic theology, read with such mind.

So who was he praying to in the garden of gatsemene

sonmvayina:


Ok, but you know the burning bush story is a metaphorical story. I suppose it is same for the Jesus story.

Same ol’ shit. Things you dislike or can’t defend are metaphorical, otherwise it’s totally real.

If it’s same for the Jesus story, why is the Moses story exempt.
I’m sorry, “Moses didn’t exist”. “The Torah was written by Ezra”

hupernikao:


Spiritual gifts are well taught in the Bible. All you listed were taught.

Paul taught spiritual gift in 1 Cor 12,13,14. Dedicated a whole chapter to teaching it (14). This includes prophesying and all.

Jesus taught his disciples how to work miracles, he instructed them on what can go wrong.

He taught them faith in God.
He taught them how to remain filled with the spirit and how faith works.

Book of Acts showed you practical and true life events on how these gift were discovered and established in the church. We saw Stephen, Philip, we knew they were taught by the Apostles, who were prophets, teachers, Pastors and evangelist. They saw them taught it and work it. Hence the 7 deacons were students of the apostles doctrine.

Those were teachings.

To say such were not taught in the Bible is not correct.

Faith in God is the beginning of all gifts and calling. Faith in God was taught from Genesis to Revelation. The essence of such is to build men and walk in spirit gift.

See Moses bow teaching the primary role of a prophets. Not for prophesying or miracles but teaching to follow God

Deut 13
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder.
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass,

whereof he spake unto (taught) thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Jesus taught the same, Paul and Peter did. They were teaching emphasizing Moses.

A prophet who isn't a teacher of gods word, as primary duty should not be taken seriously.

We judge him by what he teaches. He if doesn't teach, we reject him.

This is the scripture stands.

I get your point.
At the end of the day, some one needs to "teach" or mentor you into these things, right?

But there are some things you just have to be honest about.
Jesus tried hopelessly to teach his disciples a lot of things. But got tired.
Guess what, he got so frustrated cos they could never understand him.

This was what necessitated him praying for the Helper, cos there are some things you just can't teach. And that's because they are spiritual gifts.

hupernikao:



You like suggesting the scriptures stand as my opinion. You will need to cross check things I say with the scriptures.

Scriptures should define responsibilities for you not grammar or English.

All you need to do is to obverse all through the scriptures this roles and see what they did primarily.

What was Moses primary role Sir? To prophesy or to teach/shepherd?

Why was John the Baptist called a prophet? What was his primary role as seen in the Bible Prophesy or teach?

What of Isaiah? Ezekiel?

What exactly do a prophet does primarily? To prophesy, foretell or to speak/teach people God's plan?

We shouldn't be taking our conclusion from common motives or English meaning. We must look into the scriptures. Those roles are well seen in the Bible.

When you have checked this well, you should come to this conclusion.

That primary role of

Prophet is teaching.
Pastor is teaching
Evangelist is teaching
Apostle is teaching.

A ministry gift without a primary role of teaching isn't called of God. Take that to the bank.

Moses primary role was to deliver the Israelites from Egypt and lead them to the promised land.

Teaching was not his forte. Which was why he declined his calling with so many excuses.

Along the line God made a prophet, teacher, pastor (shepherd), evangelist and apostle out of him.
He operated in all these ministries.

I can see why using Moses or Paul as an example can be confusing cos they operated in diversity of gifts.

Not all ministries require teaching.
But when you see someone who operates in diversity of spiritual gifts, it might seem confusing.

There are those who exclusively prophesy but cannot teach.
There are those who exclusively evangelise but cannot teach.
There are those who exclusively teach but cannot prophesy.
Likewise there are those who exclusively teach but cannot evangelise.

I met various people who fall in these 4 categories. And I have met those who operate in all these ministry gifts.

I guess cos you're a teacher, you tend to believe everyone can teach, but no sir. Not everyone can.

Myer:


Moses primary role was to deliver the Israelites from Egypt and lead them to the promised land.

Teaching was not his forte. Which was why he declined his calling with so many excuses.

Along the line God made a prophet, teacher, pastor (shepherd), evangelist and apostle out of him.
He operated in all these ministries.

You need to reread the above well. If you see a prophet of God as deliverer and not a teacher. Ordinarily reading with the history and culture in mind will let you know you cant even be a deliverer or leader if you arent a teacher. One who teaches to raise and train others. Check the culture of Moses time.


Moses wrote 5 books as teaching manual not as story books. He wrote to teach God's plan, gave it to them. Joshua emphasized that it must be read all times.

I am surprised you view Moses as a voyager. A man that spent 90% of his time teaching and correcting. You need to review a lot above what you see Moses as.

Myer:

There are those who exclusively prophesy but cannot teach.
There are those who exclusively evangelise but cannot teach.
There are those who exclusively teach but cannot prophesy.
Likewise there are those who exclusively teach but cannot evangelise.

The quote above is the foundation of all that is wrong in the world that profess Christ today. They are only your imagination, not the scriptures.

Show me one prophet in the Bible who isnt a teacher.

---

It is obvious you dont check scriptures i give you or likely you arent reading them well.

I gave you Moses words himself, when he said the primary way to judge a prophet is via what he teaches.

I gave you the case of John the Baptist, he was a prophet, what was his primary role? Prophesying? We dont need to look far. What was John the Baptist primary role.

Myer:


I get your point.
At the end of the day, some one needs to "teach" or mentor you into these things, right?

But there are some things you just have to be honest about.
Jesus tried hopelessly to teach his disciples a lot of things. But got tired.
Guess what, he got so frustrated cos they could never understand him.

This was what necessitated him praying for the Helper, cos there are some things you just can't teach. And that's because they are spiritual gifts.

Lol @Jesus tried hopelessly to teach his disciples a lot of things. But got tired.

No that is wrong. He taught them, they werent using their mind to think.

Luke 24:25
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

They couldnt even believe the prophets writings which is what Jesus taught. The word slow of heart, means they arent using their heart. It is inactive. Their mind wasnt involved. That is what they will do, not the Holyghost. The precursor to believing is mind engagement. That is clear.

We have people who believed him even before his resurrections.


See, example of those who engage their mind before they believed.

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that t[b]hey received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.[/b]

The bold above is their actions when they were taught. They werent born again yet but they were engaging their minds to know if its true.


The result of that exercise is next verse below.

12 Therefore many of them believed;

They now believed, became Christians.

Understanding the scriptures includes you engaging your mind in study not just the Holyghost helping.

sonmvayina:

So who was he praying to in the garden of gatsemene

You cant do a bible study or engagement by dropping snippet of question. At least for me, i wont engage in that.

If you want to discuss, present what you see as been true or wrong, then we can start discussion. Or present your questions holistically not in pockets. That is how we can have proper discussion.

Reading or explaining in silos isnt the way bible is to be read or study.

hupernikao:


Lol @Jesus tried hopelessly to teach his disciples a lot of things. But got tired.

No that is wrong. He taught them, they werent using their mind to think.

Luke 24:25
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

They couldnt even believe the prophets writings which is what Jesus taught. The word slow of heart, means they arent using their heart. It is inactive. Their mind wasnt involved. That is what they will do, not the Holyghost. The precursor to believing is mind engagement. That is clear.

We have people who believed him even before his resurrections.


See, example of those who engage their mind before they believed.

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that t[b]hey received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.[/b]

The bold above is their actions when they were taught. They werent born again yet but they were engaging their minds to know if its true.


The result of that exercise is next verse below.

12 Therefore many of them believed;

They now believed, became Christians.

Understanding the scriptures includes you engaging your mind in study not just the Holyghost helping.

Jesus, Moses, Paul and some Apostles operated in the fullness of the ministry gifts.
John the Baptist operated as an Evangelist and also as a Teacher but not as Prophet.

But not every one can teach. How difficult is this to comprehend?
Even in our secular school system, not everyone who passes exams is able to teach others to pass.
Which is why we have good teachers and bad teachers.

A bad teacher is simply someone who is not meant to be a teacher.

Myer:


Jesus, Moses, Paul and some Apostles operated in the fullness of the ministry gifts.
John the Baptist operated as an Evangelist and also as a Teacher but not as Prophet.

John the baptist not a prophet? Is this a joke Sir.

You are trying to fit your own narrative into the scriptures. You need to allow the scriptures to change your opinion.

John was not only a prophet, he was prophesied to be one. A teacher, a proclaimer of God's plan, the one who will speak and point to the Messiah. That is the duty of a prophet.

You are carrying the modern sense of a prophet. Prophets are primarily those who teach about an oracle, who speak on its behave and teach the nation/community how to walk with the oracle. That is the duty of a prophets.

The prophet is the only person qualified aside the king, that can gather the whole nation and community to teach, instruct and direct on what they must do and how they must fulfil the desires of the oracles. Isnt that is found in the world history, even in African history.

The biblical prophets arent different Sir. Primary role is to ensure everyone/nation/community are fulfilling God's plan via his teaching, instruction and correction. You must start seeing this.

Myer:

But not every one can teach. How difficult is this to comprehend?
Even in our secular school system, not everyone who passes exams is able to teach others to pass.
Which is why we have good teachers and bad teachers.

A bad teacher is simply someone who is not meant to be a teacher.

All prophets are teachers not just bible stand, it is what is seen across the history of man.

In the Bible, every ministry gift has a PRIMARY ROLE of a teacher. Take that to the bank. If you see anyone who claim to be a "ministry gift" and not teaching God's word as primary, he is just joking with you.

hupernikao:


You cant do a bible study or engagement by dropping snippet of question. At least for me, i wont engage in that.

If you want to discuss, present what you see as been true or wrong, then we can start discussion. Or present your questions holistically not in pockets. That is how we can have proper discussion.

Reading or explaining in silos isnt the way bible is to be read or study.

In several instances in the gospels, Jesus is recorded to be praying. My question is who was he praying to? If you say the God who created the universe became man which I find insulting as man is but dust. Which of his prophet reported it in the Old testament as Amos 3;7 says " God does nothing without first revealing it to his servants the prophets...

Thanks.

Myer:


This is probably the explanation.
But makes you wonder why we don't have such anymore. Such gifts seem like fiction in this generation.

They are fictitious at best

Judybash93:


They are fictitious at best

It would be easily believable if we could replicate same today.
What we have today are mostly pastors who have read motivational books and when they need to cash out, they write theirs and they simply call it inspiration from God. Lol

I would like a pastor/prophet write through inspiration about Jesus Christ and his lost years between 12 and 30 years old. Since it's not documented in the bible.

Or write something about the president that no one else would be privy to.

Now, that would be way more credible.