Archworld:


I thought I was talking to a learned person . I am not a man of stup*d argument. If you can't reason with facts , you don't worth my reply at all. Learn to be logical . Humans are higher than animals because they can reason . Use your sense in argument . Bye

All these people claiming cultural pride will be given the same privilege as an average Nigerian if the artifact is kept in a Museum for all to see. They will pay the same fee and will keep the same distance. The first Bible in Nigeria is in Abeokuta, Ake Palace, I cannot borrow it on Sunday

gevans:
Oba of Benin Receives Returned Bronze Heads in his palace. FG rep, and other dignitaries are present in the reception ceremony. One of bronze is valued at Two Million Pounds.



https://www.channelstv.com/2022/02/19/oba-of-benin-takes-delivery-of-looted-okpa-ilahor-returned-from-uk/amp/

Trust the Brits at your peril. Those stuffs might be fake.... anyway, wetin concern me

Ghostwon6511:

Look, again, you really don't know nor understand us the Edo and you keep confusing us with yourself !

Your monarch, is a fake monarch whose relevancy was made up by the British in order for him to serve the British interests.
Our Oba (Benin !), is a true emperor, the British had to defeat his army in order to take over our land and create Nigeria.
Your fake monarch is under the authority of your local government ! Our Oba is under no such authority, it is even blasphemy to contemplate such an idea !

We are not you ! You have your particularities and we have ours !

I already told you that we maintain our treasures very well, nobody can take care of our ancestral belongings better than us.
So save your concerns for your white masters and your none existent ancestral treasures.

My brother, I'm from a tribe that directly traces it's origin to the great Bini Kingdom. But in today's Nigeria, ALL kings are subject to the LG. It's a completely different conversation whether the Chairman of Oredo LG will have the guys to deposed an Oba.

wheelchairboy:


All these people claiming cultural pride will be given the same privilege as an average Nigerian if the artifact is kept in a Museum for all to see. They will pay the same fee and will keep the same distance. The first Bible in Nigeria is in Abeokuta, Ake Palace, I cannot borrow it on Sunday

I tire o

Ojemedad:


You don't need to argue much with these people, typical of "Nigeria mentality ", always arguing with emotions

So parroting the British thieve's talking point to justify holding on to our looted treasures is "smart non emotional talk". And going against that narrative is "emotional talk".
How outsiders with no historical heritage think they can come and lecture us Edo about our heritage is a phenomenon in itself. Also the fact you guys believe that repeating British neocolonialist talking points makes you "unemotional and smart" only shows you have low self-esteem and you lack intellectual independence.

Also what concerns you guys in Benin treasures ? Where is your business in all of this ?

Nonsense something they won't even know the value

Check back in the next 5 years e don spoil

aribisala0:


They value it more than us?

Why didn't they make it?

See mentality!!

Are you from Benin? Who is the "US"

Are you among?

By their fruits you shall know them .

Archworld:


By their fruits you shall know them .

More so by their fruitlessness

Theirs shall be like that of the fruitless fig tree

That is why you remain a fool over bronze.
Dumb ass.

Ghostwon6511:

The value ? Is this a joke or what, stop asking stupid questions. Dude, go and do your politicking in the appropriate area, not over my ancestral heritage. So keep your mouth shut about Benin. I am very happy of this return, I don't expect an outsider and especially a politician to understand. My ancestral heritage will not be a casualty of Nigerian politics, so get our name out of your filthy mouth.

How are we sure is d real thing It cud b a replica
I dont trust white people

airsaylongcome:


My brother, I'm from a tribe that directly traces it's origin to the great Bini Kingdom. But in today's Nigeria, ALL kings are subject to the LG. It's a completely different conversation whether the Chairman of Oredo LG will have the guys to deposed an Oba.

Actually I believe you are wrong on this:

1) you confuse the traditional government with the post colonial government.

2) as you may have noticed, the traditional government had sovereignty before nigeria was created by the British. After that, the British needed the traditional government to rule indirectly in order to make the local people more accepting of the british and make it less expensive to rule the region. So the British added the traditional government into it's colonial government.

3) the traditional government is not part of the Nigerian postcolonial government. Of course I am not talking about thrones which were created or elevated by Nigerian politicians, those are dependencies of Nigerian government. The throne of Benin is a real one and it's validity is within the traditions of Benin, not within the constitution of Nigeria.

4) to make things short, the Oba of Benin is under no governor unlike the "monarchs" of other kingdoms whose people have taken the postcolonial government as tradition or whose monarchs were created or elevated by Nigerian politicians.

5) also, you guys need to stop acting as if you are talking to deluded people ! I know that executive power in the context of Nigeria is within the postcolonial Nigerian government, yeah I know colonisation happened, dah !
But our Benin traditional throne holds its legitimacy in our traditions which were the law in the empire before colonisation.

6) don't you see that time to time Nigerian monarchs advocate for a constitutional role within the Nigerian government ?

7) Also the case of Benin is special because the Oba still has a lot of powers like that over land, the British didn't reduce that power of the Oba and the following Nigerian governments didn't take that traditional power away from the monarch.

MindHacker9000:
Someone said it was the powers in the Bronze that developed Europe, so now we just need to relax and let it develop our land too. Welcome home Bronze and remember to develop our land and people too like you developed Europe.

Lolz, and somehow, those powers were watching as the whole Benin kingdom was overrun by the Europeans.

Are we sure it's not cloned copies that are being returned

wheelchairboy:


All these people claiming cultural pride will be given the same privilege as an average Nigerian if the artifact is kept in a Museum for all to see. They will pay the same fee and will keep the same distance. The first Bible in Nigeria is in Abeokuta, Ake Palace, I cannot borrow it on Sunday

Can you breakdown your point?

Those things could be the remodeled versions, I am afraid it might be a fake one

NaijaOlosho:
Nonsense something they won't even know the value

Check back in the next 5 years e don spoil

Most of these treasures were several hundred years old when the British looted them, they were even observed by Europeans in the 1400's while visiting the imperial palace.

So if we managed to keep them for more than 500 years, I think we will be fine.
Stop being jealous.

Hope they didn't change it?cuz nothing wey oyinbo no fit do,Edo people make una shine eyes o.

This reminds me of "Chinese Zodiac" by Jackie Chan

This is of no use to me, am and I

Nothing changes

Even if all the bronzes are returned, they will never improve the lives of edolites

The so-called cultures in this country dont bring development. If you're in doubt check the north. They're very rich in culture, yet they remain very backward...

Again, e no mata whether na fake or original bronze dem return.

Ghostwon6511:

First of all, we are not called "edolites", unlike you, we don't worship Israel. We are part of the Edo people of Benin empire, and to refer to those of us within Edo state, you actually have to say "people of Edo-state".

Also your logic seem flawed: since we need development, we should abandon our cultural heritage ? How does that make sense ? How does getting back our cultural heritage stop us from getting development ?
If anything the return of Benin artefacts will boost tourism in Edo-state and therefore add to Edo-state economy and help the development of Edo-state.
So try and make sense instead of being a hater.

Archworld:
It's a beautiful feeling but I think the whites would value it more than us. In fact they were the ones that even made us to know such thing exist because they took care of it over the years. Whites attach values to many things . The ones that were not stolen by the whites , where are they today? I guess dust has finished them . Africa lack maintenance culture . We only begin to value things when they are stolen

You are right

Ghostwon6511:


Actually I believe you are wrong on this:

1) you confuse the traditional government with the post colonial government.

2) as you may have noticed, the traditional government had sovereignty before nigeria was created by the British. After that, the British needed the traditional government to rule indirectly in order to make the local people more accepting of the british and make it less expensive to rule the region. So the British added the traditional government into it's colonial government.

3) the traditional government is not part of the Nigerian postcolonial government. Of course I am not talking about thrones which were created or elevated by Nigerian politicians, those are dependencies of Nigerian government. The throne of Benin is a real one and it's validity is within the traditions of Benin, not within the constitution of Nigeria.

4) to make things short, the Oba of Benin is under no governor unlike the "monarchs" of other kingdoms whose people have taken the postcolonial government as tradition or whose monarchs were created or elevated by Nigerian politicians.

5) also, you guys need to stop acting as if you are talking to deluded people ! I know that executive power in the context of Nigeria is within the postcolonial Nigerian government, yeah I know colonisation happened, dah !
But our Benin traditional throne holds its legitimacy in our traditions which were the law in the empire before colonisation.

6) don't you see that time to time Nigerian monarchs advocate for a constitutional role within the Nigerian government ?

7) Also the case of Benin is special because the Oba still has a lot of powers like that over land, the British didn't reduce that power of the Oba and the following Nigerian governments didn't take that traditional power away from the monarch.

Oya clap for yourself.

[quote author=Archworld post=110364593]


Your are deviating by raising a different argument entirely . No one argued that whatever they stole doesn't belong to Benin people . If I were to argue blindly with you , I would remind you that there is not part of Nigeria that is greater that the whole country, the constituents make up the whole. There is nothing like the sovereign Benin kingdom, but the Sovereign Federal Republic of Nigeria. I agree that every kingdom had their sovereignty, but that was in the past. In our current constitution, even your chiefs and kingdoms are now under the local governments , no matter the relevance you attach to it. The past is history , stop arguing with emotion because you are from Bini. The law of Nigeria takes hold of all

All we were talking about was about maintenance, I expected you to argue on this , not raise a different argument that you can't win [/quote tell him the truth wo! he is talkin out of point.

tarantino1:



As long as they are Nigerians like yourself, they are your brothers.

No matter how you try to separate yourself from them based on tribe and state and other nonsense, you are all one.

This is not 1880 where you identity by your tribe before anything else. In 2022, you are a Nigerian first before anything.

And even if I were to follow your logic, it was only two months ago when an Edo man named Benin killed his girlfriend for money rituals. The same powerless god that couldn't fight for his people when the white descerated the land is the same one he sacrificed his girlfriend to for riches.

Enjoy your evening newspaper artifacts, dolt.

1) you may believe that you are Nigerian before anything else, I do not have that belief.

2) the Edo people are not a tribe, tribes are primitif, the Edo people are a people much like the french, the Germans or the Russians, we had our own large country (Benin Kingdom) before colonisation.

3)all gods are imaginary, including those transported to our shores by your white masters, but the fact you chose to focus on our gods instead of stating that religion is a scam, that tells a lot about you and your motives.

4)No, you are not my brother, only the people of Benin empire (the Edo people) are my brothers.

5) you don't need to always quote my emperor and my kingdom and my tradition for general Nigerian problems. It is not my emperor, nor my tradition, nor my religion which made someone in Abeokuta kill an other person, so stop attacking us and face your problems !


RELIGION IS A SCAM, tradition and respect to elders is what is real.

Ifeoluwav:
When they stole these artifacts they said they are idols(idol worshipping) now that they have started returning them, does it mean they're no longer an idol?

Wake up bro...
They stole them to sell them as proceeds of war...not as idols beign siezed as erenously been peddled...

Ghostwon6511:

So parroting the British thieve's talking point to justify holding on to our looted treasures is "smart Mon emotional talk". And going against that narrative is "emotional talk".
How outsiders with no historical heritage think they can come and lecture us Edo about our heritage is a phenomenon in itself. Also the fact you guys believe that repeating British neocolonialist talking points makes you "unemotional and smart" only shows you have low self-esteem and you lack intellectual independence.

Also what concerns you guys in Benin treasures ? Where is your business in all of this ?

You are still missing the point

gevans:
Oba of Benin Receives Returned Bronze Heads in his palace. FG rep, and other dignitaries are present in the reception ceremony. One of bronze is valued at Two Million Pounds.



https://www.channelstv.com/2022/02/19/oba-of-benin-takes-delivery-of-looted-okpa-ilahor-returned-from-uk/amp/

is that Tottenham Hotspur

Benin empire never exist, formerly it was Benin kingdom it became Benin empire recently by binis sons and daughters that knew nothing about empire, the empire in Nigeria are Borno, Oyo, the looted bronze took place in the Oba palace because of the disagreement between the British and bini kingdom, the Oba was banished and the kingdom bronze later looted, there was bronze makers/ institutions in Nupe kingdom, Owo Kingdom and Ile- Ife the source but they were fully secured. So stop making noise over looted bronze there is nothing special about it. quote author=Ghostwon6511 post=110364239]
I love how Benin ancestral heritage has suddenly become the belonging of every Nigerian and subject to every Nigerian's uneducated opinions.

1) these treasures belong to Benin kingdom, not to every Nigerian, and not to your "tribe" wherever you are from, these are the treasures of Benin empire !


2) Obviously they had value before the British stole them, indeed, some were decorating the palace of the Oba, some were kept in storage, some (small percentage) were decorating the palaces of Benin chiefs !


3)"the ones which weren't stolen", you seem to not understand that Benin city is not an ordinary town, what you had in Benin city is not the same as what you had in Abeokuta ! Benin city was the capital of Benin Kingdom ! Benin kingdom was a large and rich empire, it had treasures, among those treasures, you have these bronzes !
These are unique treasures, not existent elsewhere in Nigeria ! So there are no one's which weren't stolen !

4) some other Benin treasures had already been returned to the Oba of Benin in the 1930's: one of them is the traditional attire of the Oba of Benin and it is very well kept !

5) I understand that my ancestral heritage has no value to you, an alien to my culture and my ancestral country (Benin Kingdom/empire), just don't expand your ignorance by claiming to speak for me !

We, the people of Benin empire, we value our ancestral heritage and we want ot back where it belongs: into the costody of the Oba.[/quote]

Archworld:


I thought I was talking to a learned person . I am not a man of stup*d argument. If you can't reason with facts , you don't worth my reply at all. Learn to be logical . Humans are higher than animals because they can reason . Use your sense in argument . Bye

Am glad you quickly choose not to further waste your time.

obanioluorun:
Benin empire never exist, formerly it was Benin kingdom it became Benin empire recently by binis sons and daughters that knew nothing about empire, the empire in Nigeria are Borno, Oyo, the looted bronze took place in the Oba palace because of the disagreement between the British and bini kingdom, the Oba was banished and the kingdom bronze later looted, there was bronze makers/ institutions in Nupe kingdom, Owo Kingdom and Ile- Ife the source but they were fully secured. So stop making noise over looted bronze there is nothing special about it. [

1) learn how to quote properly
2) if you Ife have bronze then why are you here on a topic which doesn't concern you ?
Why not go on an ife bronze topic and discuss about your own bronze right there, also show your imaginary treasures to the world. Why are you on this topic ?
3) the word empire is actually not an African word, so we use it in our context to say "large kingdom" because an empire is a kingdom with more glory than the average kingdom and whose dukes are considered the equals to kings of other kingdoms and Benin fits this criteria.
4) Ife was a small village untill 1912 when the British started to urbanize it. Also the bronze of Ife are very few in numbers and most of them were dug up. Benin bronzes are several thousands and they were the furniture of the palace of the Oba of Benin when the British looted them.

5) oyo was never an empire, it was a small kingdom which got obliterated by the Fulani, end of story for oyo. (Why do I have to always give yoruba jealous people history lessons)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp8flCwvoAU

Also, it is getting annoying that the average yoruba believes he knows Benin more than the average Edo. That is delusion in it's self, apart from that, you guys keep repeating fairytales as history.
Frankly I have had these discussions with your people so many times that I have grown seek of it, I have precolonial maps which show the extent of Benin, I have precolonial texts which show the might of Benin. What you yoruba have is just a bunch of fairytales, no proof whatsoever.
Look at you in here on a topic about Benin bronzes, you needed to jump in and claim that they are not special and Ife has them too ...this jealousy thing needs to stop. Ife has nothing comparable to the thousands of treasures stolen from Benin empire, if I am wrong then show your "immense" treasures !
You guys gave up to the british without a fight, we fought a war against the British !

Our imperial palace was destroyed, our capital city was destroyed, our treasure was looted. But you, nothing from you was destroyed nor looted, yet you still have nothing to show...that only shows you had nothing in the first place.

Ife wasn't burnt to the ground by the British, yet Ife has no traditional architecture to showcase. The palace of your ooni was built in the 1930's or 1940's even though his original palace was never destroyed by the British, so what did he have before the urbanising by the Brits ? Most likely a small shrine !
We all know Benin empire had a palace which was the size of a whole town and was beautifully decorated... So take your jealousy elsewhere and stop obsessing about us, we are not equals. P.S, there were only two empires whose capitals are within the borders of Nigeria: Bornu and Bénin.

Nobody witnessed oyo as being an empire, that is just yoruba revisionism. Most yoruba actually originated not from Ife, but from Brazil where their ancestors were slaves.