Matt 15:2, NIV: "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!" Now to the modern ears, it sounds like the pharisees and scribes had come from Jerusalem to hear Jesus words and were surprised to see what they regarded as the lacking of proper ettiquette for eating at the table. And we see Jesus virtually defending his disciples who had failed in following a simple lesson or practice of hygiene in an age when meal was eaten directly with hand & not with the use of spoon or fork. Jesus' disciples felt hungry and just dig right to the eating, not even a short supplicatory prayer by Jesus' disciples; acknowledging God's providence of the meal. What a brute disobedience to the traditions of the elders before them. At least in the hadith; [detailing the descriptive ways of the Prophet(pbuh)] in it lies the ettiquette of eating with detailed evidence and [ clear instructions to be grateful & to declare Allah's name before eating food; see Surah Al An'am vs 121]

So Jesus didn't have table manners?

MrCodeSolo:
Now to the modern ears, it sounds like the pharisees and scribes had come from Jerusalem to hear Jesus words and were surprised to see what they regarded as the lacking of proper ettiquette for eating at the table.

And we see Jesus virtually defending his disciples who had failed in following a simple lesson or practice of hygiene in an age when meal was eaten directly with hand & not with the use of spoon or fork. Jesus' disciples felt hungry and just dig right to the eating, not even a short supplicatory prayer by Jesus' disciples; acknowledging God's providence of the meal. What a brute disobedience to the traditions of the elders before them. At least in the hadith; [detailing the descriptive ways of the Prophet(pbuh)] in it lies the ettiquette of eating with detailed evidence and [ clear instructions to be grateful & to declare Allah's name before eating food; see Surah Al An'am vs 121]

God, the one you claim has providence over the meals, did not give His disciples/followers a command to bless meals before eating so what is there to gain in doing that which God has not commanded?

God did not give the people commandments about washing of hands before eating of meals, so what is there to gain from washing of your hands before meals pretending you do it on behalf of God?

Even Jesus Christ Himself was accused of not washing His hands before eating, this at a party he was invited to, and He carefully taught that when you keep the inside clean, the outside would also be made clean as a result - Luke 11 vs 37 -54.

---

Your religion may hold high it's hygiene rules where your Allah is concerned, but such things are meaningless where the God of the Christians is concerned.

MrCodeSolo:
Matt 15:2, NIV: "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!" Now to the modern ears, it sounds like the pharisees and scribes had come from Jerusalem to hear Jesus words and were surprised to see what they regarded as the lacking of proper ettiquette for eating at the table. And we see Jesus virtually defending his disciples who had failed in following a simple lesson or practice of hygiene in an age when meal was eaten directly with hand & not with the use of spoon or fork. Jesus' disciples felt hungry and just dig right to the eating, not even a short supplicatory prayer by Jesus' disciples; acknowledging God's providence of the meal. What a brute disobedience to the traditions of the elders before them. At least in the hadith; [detailing the descriptive ways of the Prophet(pbuh)] in it lies the ettiquette of eating with detailed evidence and [ clear instructions to be grateful & to declare Allah's name before eating food; see Surah Al An'am vs 121]

Did you know that Muhammad performed ablution which is meant for purification, with filthy water ?

Sunan an-Nasa'i 326
It was narrated that Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri said:
"It was said: 'O Messenger of Allah, you perform Wudu' from the well into which the bodies of dogs, menstrual rags and garbage are thrown? ' He said: 'Water is pure and it is not made impure by anything.'"

InsanePsycho:
So Jesus didn't have table manners?

Look at how he made a mess at the table here.

1Sharon:
Look at how he made a mess at the table here.

Table manners have nothing to do with the Kingdom of God or what is God's Holiness.

advocatejare:
Did you know that Muhammad performed ablution which is meant for purification, with filthy water?
It was narrated that Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri said:
"It was said: 'O Messenger of Allah, you perform Wudu' from the well into which the bodies of dogs, menstrual rags and garbage are thrown? ' He said: 'Water is pure and it is not made impure by anything.'"

There is an explanation for that? U always find a way to dig up lines of questioning from d hadiths that have been argued by islamic scholars, historians,etc. And had been answered long time ago before now and with historical reports supporting these claims and of course, the well of buda'ah. U see yourself as someone who knows or quotes few lines to raise islamic eyebrows but on a connotative level. Even if you think you know so much as to challenge a muslim's intellect, saying things you assume I never knew about islam with regard to purification and wudu? Then U are mistaken!

MrCodeSolo:
There is an explanation for that? U always find a way to dig up lines of questioning from d hadiths that have been argued by islamic scholars, historians,etc. And had been answered long time ago before now and with historical reports supporting these claims and of course, the well of buda'ah. U see yourself as someone who knows or quotes few lines to raise islamic eyebrows but on a connotative level. Even if you think you know so much as to challenge a muslim's intellect, saying things you assume I never knew about islam with regard to purification and wudu? Then U are mistaken!

Here, the same Pharisees pressed Jesus Christ for not washing His hands according to their traditions.

37 After Jesus had finished speaking, a Pharisee asked Jesus to eat with him. So he went and took a place at the table.
38 But the Pharisee was surprised when he saw that Jesus did not wash his hands first before the meal.
39 The Lord said to him, “The washing you Pharisees do is like cleaning only the outside of a cup or a dish. But what is inside you? You want only to cheat and hurt people.
40 You are foolish! The same one who made what is outside also made what is inside.
41 So pay attention to what is inside. Give to the people who need help. Then you will be fully clean.

42 “But it will be bad for you Pharisees! You give God a tenth of the food you get, even your mint, your rue, and every other little plant in your garden. But you forget to be fair to others and to love God. These are the things you should do. And you should also continue to do those other things.

43 “It will be bad for you Pharisees because you love to have the most important seats in the synagogues. And you love for people to show respect to you in the marketplaces.
44 It will be bad for you, because you are like hidden graves. People walk on them without knowing it.”

45 One of the experts in the law said to Jesus, “Teacher, when you say these things about the Pharisees, you are criticizing our group too.”

46 Jesus answered, “It will be bad for you, you experts in the law! You make strict rules that are very hard for people to obey.[i] You try to force others to obey your rules. But you yourselves don’t even try to follow any of those rules.
47 It will be bad for you, because you build tombs for the prophets. But these are the same prophets your ancestors killed!
48 And now you show all people that you agree with what your ancestors did. They killed the prophets, and you build tombs for the prophets!
49 This is why God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send prophets and apostles to them. Some of my prophets and apostles will be killed by evil men. Others will be treated badly.’

50 “So you people who live now will be punished for the deaths of all the prophets who were killed since the beginning of the world.
51 You will be punished for the killing of Abel.[k] And you will be punished for the killing of Zechariah,[l] who was killed between the altar and the Temple. Yes, I tell you that you people will be punished for them all.

52 “It will be bad for you, you experts in the law! You have taken away the key to learning about God. You yourselves would not learn, and you stopped others from learning too.”
53 When Jesus went out, the teachers of the law and the Pharisees began to give him much trouble. They tried to make him answer questions about many things.
54 They were trying to find a way to catch Jesus saying something wrong. - Luke 11 vs 37 - 54

If you want further explanations or answer to your line of argument, open your own thread and drag me into it to explain everything in the light of the hadiths and d holy Qur'an you are skimming off lines and verses from time to time connotatively and by Allah's willingly i shall be most blessed in my explanation.

MrCodeSolo:
If you want further explanations or answer to your line of argument, open your own thread and drag me into it to explain everything in the light of the hadiths and d holy Qur'an you are skimming off lines and verses from time to time connotatively and by Allah's willingly i shall be most blessed in my explanation.

Jesus Christ Himself was also accused of poor eating habits by the Pharisees. And as he explained in Luke 11 vs 37 - 54, your tables manners and washing of body parts have nothing to do with God or what God has called His own for.

MrCodeSolo:
If you want further explanations or answer to your line of argument, open your own thread and drag me into it to explain everything in the light of the hadiths and d holy Qur'an you are skimming off lines and verses from time to time connotatively and by Allah's willingly i shall be most blessed in my explanation.

this post was directed to @Advocatejare and not you kobojunkie! Well, brilliant diversion there, for throwing in d entire luke 11 verses even if it 100% contradicts what another unknown author behind the matthew account was saying about the eating at the table with unwashed hands business. Wow!

MrCodeSolo:
this post was directed to @Advocatejare and not you kobojunkie! Well, brilliant diversion there, for throwing in d entire luke 11 verses even if it 100% contradicts what another unknown author behind the matthew account was saying about the eating at the table with unwashed hands business. Wow!

Do you even begin to understand the meaning of the Word "Contradict" at all?

In Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14, Jesus Christ in no way contradicts His teachings in Luke 11 vs 37 - 54. Instead, He used the opportunity to teach yet another lesson to the Pharisees.

1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus. They came from Jerusalem and asked him,
2 “Why do your followers not obey the traditions we have from our great leaders who lived long ago? Your followers don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus answered, “And why do you refuse to obey God’s command so that you can follow those traditions you have?
4 God said, ‘You must respect your father and mother.’ And God also said, ‘Whoever says anything bad to their father or mother must be killed.’
5 But you teach that a person can say to their father or mother, ‘I have something I could use to help you. But I will not use it for you. I will give it to God.’
6 You are teaching them not to respect their father. So you are teaching that it is not important to do what God said. You think it is more important to follow those traditions you have.
7 You are hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he spoke for God about you:

8 ‘These people honor me with their words,
but I am not really important to them.
9 Their worship of me is worthless.
The things they teach are only human rules.’”

10 Jesus called the people to him. He said, “Listen and understand what I am saying.
11 It is not what people put in their mouth that makes them wrong.[c] It is what comes out of their mouth that makes them wrong.”

12 Then the followers came to Jesus and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees are upset about what you said?”

13 Jesus answered, “Every plant that my Father in heaven has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
14 Stay away from the Pharisees. They lead the people, but they are like blind men leading other blind men. And if a blind man leads another blind man, both of them will fall into a ditch.” - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14

The same message is found written of in Mark 7 vs 1 - 13

Read carefully , comparing closely with what is written in Luke 11 vs 37 - 54, and you will maybe realize that you wrong for suggesting a contradiction.

MrCodeSolo:
There is an explanation for that? U always find a way to dig up lines of questioning from d hadiths that have been argued by islamic scholars, historians,etc. And had been answered long time ago before now and with historical reports supporting these claims and of course, the well of buda'ah. U see yourself as someone who knows or quotes few lines to raise islamic eyebrows but on a connotative level. Even if you think you know so much as to challenge a muslim's intellect, saying things you assume I never knew about islam with regard to purification and wudu? Then U are mistaken!

What foolish explanation do you want to give to a clearly written hadith that states how Muhammad did ablution with filthy water?

Let’s see your yeye explanation.

I hope you’re a copying muhammad today by doing ablution with water in which menstrual rags and dead dogs are thrown into!

MrCodeSolo:
If you want further explanations or answer to your line of argument, open your own thread and drag me into it to explain everything in the light of the hadiths and d holy Qur'an you are skimming off lines and verses from time to time connotatively and by Allah's willingly i shall be most blessed in my explanation.

I have many post written already, you can engage me in anyone you choose and let’s start from there!

advocatejare:

What foolish explanation do you want to give to a clearly written hadith that states how Muhammad did ablution with filthy water?

Let’s see your yeye explanation.

I hope you’re a copying muhammad today by doing ablution with water in which menstrual rags and dead dogs are thrown into!

"you hate what you don't understand" There is no point in over-emphasizing your lack of adequate islamic knowledge or your failure at cross-examining pre-islamic arab histories as regards for example, the water from the well of buda'ah and many other numberous historical reports authenticating d existence of the things and happenings mentioned throughout the hadiths. Don't bother checking your own over-littered topics; or pointing me to them or whatever - i shall be creating a thread to addressing dz line of argument

MrCodeSolo:
"you hate what you don't understand" There is no point in over-emphasizing your lack of adequate islamic knowledge or your failure at cross-examining pre-islamic arab histories as regards for example, the water from the well of buda'ah and many other numberous historical reports authenticating d existence of the things and happenings mentioned throughout the hadiths. Don't bother checking your own over-littered topics; or pointing me to them or whatever - i shall be creating a thread to addressing dz line of argument

You’re just wasting words, thinking you can confuse people.

Did Muhammad used filthy water to do ablution or not?

Since he’s the best of you Muslims, are you copying him by using filthy water to do ablution too? If you’re not then you’re ashamed of muhammad!

advocatejare:

You’re just wasting words, thinking you can confuse people.

Did Muhammad used filthy water to do ablution or not?

Since he’s the best of you Muslims, are you copying him by using filthy water to do ablution too? If you’re not then you’re ashamed of muhammad!

waters from the well of bu'daah was never a stagnant water; it was a running water. And d non-muslims were'nt that stupid to the extent of throwing filthies into a community well that was theirs? It was the heavy down-pour that washed impurities into the well. A well that was somewhat large and its waters running continiously into the garden. And if we are to test for impurities, how is that for science? Giving the expanse of the well and its running course in all. Don't tell me ones' sputum or camel urine should have been a considerable option, when you clearly have a well that was not stagnant, even the offensive smell of a stagnant water would make one puke uncontrollably.

MrCodeSolo:
waters from the well of bu'daah was never a stagnant water; it was a running water.

What is the proof for this statement of yours?

And d non-muslims were'nt that stupid to the extent of throwing filthies into a community well that was theirs?

So are you saying the an authentic hadith of Muslims that was written by Muslims themselves is not true?


Sunan an-Nasa'i 326
It was narrated that Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri said:
"It was said: 'O Messenger of Allah, you perform Wudu' from the well into which the bodies of dogs, menstrual rags and garbage are thrown?' He said: 'Water is pure and it is not made impure by anything.'"




Sunan Abi Dawud 67
Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri:
I heard that the people asked the Prophet of Allah (ﷺ): Water is brought for you from the well of Buda'ah. It is a well in which dead dogs, menstrual clothes and excrement of people are thrown. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) replied: Verily water is pure and is not defiled by anything.
Abu Dawud said I heard Qutaibah b. Sa'id say: I asked the person in charge of the well of Bud'ah about the depth of the well. He replied: At most the water reaches pubes. Then I asked: Where does it reach when its level goes down ? He replied: Below the private part of the body.
Abu Dawud said: I measured the breadth of the well of Buda'ah with my sheet which I stretched over it. I them measured it with the hand. It measured six cubits in breadth. I then asked the man who opened the door of garden for me and admitted me to it: Has the condition of this well changed from what it had originally been in the past ? He replied: No. I saw the color of water in this well had changed.

1Sharon:


Look at how he made a mess at the table here.

Even worser shall your life be messed up beyond even death.

Dtruthspeaker:


Even worser shall your life be messed up beyond even death.

Lol.

advocatejare:

What is the proof for this statement of yours?


So are you saying the an authentic hadith of Muslims that was written by Muslims themselves is not true?


Sunan an-Nasa'i 326
It was narrated that Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri said:
"It was said: 'O Messenger of Allah, you perform Wudu' from the well into which the bodies of dogs, menstrual rags and garbage are thrown?' He said: 'Water is pure and it is not made impure by anything.'"




Sunan Abi Dawud 67
Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri:
I heard that the people asked the Prophet of Allah (ﷺ): Water is brought for you from the well of Buda'ah. It is a well in which dead dogs, menstrual clothes and excrement of people are thrown. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) replied: Verily water is pure and is not defiled by anything.
Abu Dawud said I heard Qutaibah b. Sa'id say: I asked the person in charge of the well of Bud'ah about the depth of the well. He replied: At most the water reaches pubes. Then I asked: Where does it reach when its level goes down ? He replied: Below the private part of the body.
Abu Dawud said: I measured the breadth of the well of Buda'ah with my sheet which I stretched over it. I them measured it with the hand. It measured six cubits in breadth. I then asked the man who opened the door of garden for me and admitted me to it: Has the condition of this well changed from what it had originally been in the past ? He replied: No. I saw the color of water in this well had changed.

Sharia law is useless to humanity

HellVictorinho4:



Sharia law is useless to humanity

You are right.

Imagine the leader of Islam doing ablution with filthy water!

advocatejare:

You are right.

Imagine the leader of Islam doing ablution with filthy water!

I need your assistance